<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><!-- generator="wordpress/2.3.3" -->
<rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Social Science Wars</title>
	<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/05/12/social-science-wars/</link>
	<description>Blogging politics, culture, sociology and life from Brisvegas</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 03:18:01 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.3</generator>
		<item>
		<title>By: catallaxy  &#187; Blog Archive   &#187; IR opinion</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/05/12/social-science-wars/#comment-6916</link>
		<dc:creator>catallaxy  &#187; Blog Archive   &#187; IR opinion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 May 2005 03:51:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/05/12/social-science-wars/#comment-6916</guid>
		<description>[...] al relations reforms. They have released their methodology and questions, as Mark Bahnisch insists they should. And from this we can see that it is a biased survey of igno [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] al relations reforms. They have released their methodology and questions, as Mark Bahnisch insists they should. And from this we can see that it is a biased survey of igno [&#8230;]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: catallaxy  &#187; Blog Archive   &#187; Advocacy critique</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/05/12/social-science-wars/#comment-5818</link>
		<dc:creator>catallaxy  &#187; Blog Archive   &#187; Advocacy critique</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 May 2005 12:02:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/05/12/social-science-wars/#comment-5818</guid>
		<description>[...]  guys and the Jedi Knights Nazi secessionists? 			 		 	 		 			Advocacy critique 	 			 					Last week Mark Bahnisch criticised new polling research on abortion that suggest [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;]  guys and the Jedi Knights Nazi secessionists? 			 		 	 		 			Advocacy critique 	 			 					Last week Mark Bahnisch criticised new polling research on abortion that suggest [&#8230;]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/05/12/social-science-wars/#comment-5078</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 May 2005 16:38:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/05/12/social-science-wars/#comment-5078</guid>
		<description>Does EP know about the strange phenomenon of the ghost cat? I could tell some tales.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Does EP know about the strange phenomenon of the ghost cat? I could tell some tales.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: liam hogan</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/05/12/social-science-wars/#comment-5072</link>
		<dc:creator>liam hogan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 May 2005 15:02:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/05/12/social-science-wars/#comment-5072</guid>
		<description>I think EP's funding is tuna out of a can, a few cat biscuits and an old blanket to sleep on. That, and a scratch under the chin every now and then. Prrrr.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think EP&#8217;s funding is tuna out of a can, a few cat biscuits and an old blanket to sleep on. That, and a scratch under the chin every now and then. Prrrr.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/05/12/social-science-wars/#comment-5069</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 May 2005 14:45:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/05/12/social-science-wars/#comment-5069</guid>
		<description>But who funded your studies, EP?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But who funded your studies, EP?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Evil Pundit</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/05/12/social-science-wars/#comment-5065</link>
		<dc:creator>Evil Pundit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 May 2005 14:27:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/05/12/social-science-wars/#comment-5065</guid>
		<description>My studies* indicate that he doesn't read aloud, he just moves his lips.

* I can't reveal the details, but they're based on very accurate surveys.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My studies* indicate that he doesn&#8217;t read aloud, he just moves his lips.</p>
<p>* I can&#8217;t reveal the details, but they&#8217;re based on very accurate surveys.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/05/12/social-science-wars/#comment-5062</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 May 2005 14:07:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/05/12/social-science-wars/#comment-5062</guid>
		<description>How do you know Brian doesn't read his comments back to himself aloud?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How do you know Brian doesn&#8217;t read his comments back to himself aloud?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Evil Pundit</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/05/12/social-science-wars/#comment-5059</link>
		<dc:creator>Evil Pundit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 May 2005 13:38:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/05/12/social-science-wars/#comment-5059</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;I have spoken!&lt;/i&gt;

No you haven't. You have typed.

Another typical example of left-wing inaccuracy and misrepresentation.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I have spoken!</i></p>
<p>No you haven&#8217;t. You have typed.</p>
<p>Another typical example of left-wing inaccuracy and misrepresentation.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Brian Bahnisch</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/05/12/social-science-wars/#comment-5058</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Bahnisch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 May 2005 13:28:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/05/12/social-science-wars/#comment-5058</guid>
		<description>Disclosure:

I heard Eva Cox comment on this issue on RN's Australia Talks Back. 

On this one she is spot on. If you can't evaluate the methodology and can't review the questions you should ignore the results. It is as simple as that. Forget they ever existed. It doesn't matter if they 'sound about right'. If that was a measure you wouldn't need to do any research. 

It is also irrelevant what Ms Cox's views on other matters and what her manners might be.

So there! I have spoken!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Disclosure:</p>
<p>I heard Eva Cox comment on this issue on RN&#8217;s Australia Talks Back. </p>
<p>On this one she is spot on. If you can&#8217;t evaluate the methodology and can&#8217;t review the questions you should ignore the results. It is as simple as that. Forget they ever existed. It doesn&#8217;t matter if they &#8217;sound about right&#8217;. If that was a measure you wouldn&#8217;t need to do any research. </p>
<p>It is also irrelevant what Ms Cox&#8217;s views on other matters and what her manners might be.</p>
<p>So there! I have spoken!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Evil Pundit</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/05/12/social-science-wars/#comment-5057</link>
		<dc:creator>Evil Pundit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 May 2005 12:59:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/05/12/social-science-wars/#comment-5057</guid>
		<description>Of course research should be evaluated and tested.

But we should also take into account the ideological and theoretical biases of those who do the evaluation and testing.

And I still think it is wrong that the article you quoted doesn't seem to mention Eva Cox's background. By failing to do so, it commits the same sin that the reporters of the survey committed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course research should be evaluated and tested.</p>
<p>But we should also take into account the ideological and theoretical biases of those who do the evaluation and testing.</p>
<p>And I still think it is wrong that the article you quoted doesn&#8217;t seem to mention Eva Cox&#8217;s background. By failing to do so, it commits the same sin that the reporters of the survey committed.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: liam hogan</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/05/12/social-science-wars/#comment-5055</link>
		<dc:creator>liam hogan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 May 2005 12:21:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/05/12/social-science-wars/#comment-5055</guid>
		<description>Sure, but I'd pick my facts, wouldn't I?
Nobody's ever said that the Southern Cross Care lot shouldn't be able to do research. If they want to, go ahead, research away! They should be subject, though, to the same strictures as the rest of us---which includes having to answer the question: "Hey, before I read this, who are you, what do you do, and who gives you your money"?
&lt;i&gt;This post was written in the leisure time of a history student supported an Australian Postgraduate Award scholarship&lt;/i&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sure, but I&#8217;d pick my facts, wouldn&#8217;t I?<br />
Nobody&#8217;s ever said that the Southern Cross Care lot shouldn&#8217;t be able to do research. If they want to, go ahead, research away! They should be subject, though, to the same strictures as the rest of us&#8212;which includes having to answer the question: &#8220;Hey, before I read this, who are you, what do you do, and who gives you your money&#8221;?<br />
<i>This post was written in the leisure time of a history student supported an Australian Postgraduate Award scholarship</i></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/05/12/social-science-wars/#comment-5054</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 May 2005 12:12:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/05/12/social-science-wars/#comment-5054</guid>
		<description>As I think I was suggesting, in any form of scholarship the selection of the object of study (and to some degree the method) will be in part a function of the social and ideological position of the researcher, and ought to be subjected to analysis in and of itself. However, that does not mean that we should adopt a relativistic position as the results of the research can still be evaluated and tested.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As I think I was suggesting, in any form of scholarship the selection of the object of study (and to some degree the method) will be in part a function of the social and ideological position of the researcher, and ought to be subjected to analysis in and of itself. However, that does not mean that we should adopt a relativistic position as the results of the research can still be evaluated and tested.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Andrew Norton</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/05/12/social-science-wars/#comment-5053</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Norton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 May 2005 12:10:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/05/12/social-science-wars/#comment-5053</guid>
		<description>"5. For fuck‚Äôs sake. You‚Äôd question anything that I wrote on the grounds of lefty ideological bias, wouldn‚Äôt you? I know I certainly would, and I expect to be able to take the same approach to others."

I might question your arguments/interpretations based on your lefty ideological bias, but if you are making a factual statement that accords with known evidence I am not going to discount it simply because I disagree with your politics. 


</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;5. For fuck‚Äôs sake. You‚Äôd question anything that I wrote on the grounds of lefty ideological bias, wouldn‚Äôt you? I know I certainly would, and I expect to be able to take the same approach to others.&#8221;</p>
<p>I might question your arguments/interpretations based on your lefty ideological bias, but if you are making a factual statement that accords with known evidence I am not going to discount it simply because I disagree with your politics.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: liam hogan</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/05/12/social-science-wars/#comment-5052</link>
		<dc:creator>liam hogan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 May 2005 11:58:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/05/12/social-science-wars/#comment-5052</guid>
		<description>Five points, if I may.
1. Eva Cox is a trained political scientist and a scholar. Just not a very nice one.
2. Peer reviewing is important. Scholarship is important. Transparency is important. Nobody is arguing to the contrary.
3. The first, most important thing primary school teachers teach young people learning how to read is the simple question: "Who wrote this"? It's the basis of all source-based history and the foundation of evidence. It's the most powerful question available to empirical readers. It's important no matter what the quality of the research, the transparency of the methods, or the validity of the data.
5. For fuck's sake. You'd question anything that I wrote on the grounds of lefty ideological bias, wouldn't you? I know I certainly would, and I expect to be able to take the same approach to others.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Five points, if I may.<br />
1. Eva Cox is a trained political scientist and a scholar. Just not a very nice one.<br />
2. Peer reviewing is important. Scholarship is important. Transparency is important. Nobody is arguing to the contrary.<br />
3. The first, most important thing primary school teachers teach young people learning how to read is the simple question: &#8220;Who wrote this&#8221;? It&#8217;s the basis of all source-based history and the foundation of evidence. It&#8217;s the most powerful question available to empirical readers. It&#8217;s important no matter what the quality of the research, the transparency of the methods, or the validity of the data.<br />
5. For fuck&#8217;s sake. You&#8217;d question anything that I wrote on the grounds of lefty ideological bias, wouldn&#8217;t you? I know I certainly would, and I expect to be able to take the same approach to others.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/05/12/social-science-wars/#comment-5051</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 May 2005 11:39:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/05/12/social-science-wars/#comment-5051</guid>
		<description>Well, perhaps I'm wrong, Homer. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, perhaps I&#8217;m wrong, Homer.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Homer Paxton</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/05/12/social-science-wars/#comment-5050</link>
		<dc:creator>Homer Paxton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 May 2005 11:29:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/05/12/social-science-wars/#comment-5050</guid>
		<description>I don't know the genesis of the creation debate ( that was for Jason) however My reading of christian websites and publications both here and overseas is quite the opposite.

They welcome peer reviewing and even defending ones position.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know the genesis of the creation debate ( that was for Jason) however My reading of christian websites and publications both here and overseas is quite the opposite.</p>
<p>They welcome peer reviewing and even defending ones position.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/05/12/social-science-wars/#comment-5049</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 May 2005 11:21:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/05/12/social-science-wars/#comment-5049</guid>
		<description>Homer, I think it's part of the creationist debate in the US.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Homer, I think it&#8217;s part of the creationist debate in the US.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Homer Paxton</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/05/12/social-science-wars/#comment-5048</link>
		<dc:creator>Homer Paxton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 May 2005 11:15:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/05/12/social-science-wars/#comment-5048</guid>
		<description>Mark,
1) Eva cox is a scholar? since when?

2)I am not aware of christians pouring scorn on peer reviewing.
I have to say I am unaware of this and given my point of view I doubt that I have missed much.
Where does this criticism come from? </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark,<br />
1) Eva cox is a scholar? since when?</p>
<p>2)I am not aware of christians pouring scorn on peer reviewing.<br />
I have to say I am unaware of this and given my point of view I doubt that I have missed much.<br />
Where does this criticism come from?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/05/12/social-science-wars/#comment-5047</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 May 2005 11:08:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/05/12/social-science-wars/#comment-5047</guid>
		<description>To respond to your point, EP. Cox is indeed a feminist scholar and this is well known. However this does not invalidate the criticisms she makes. It may influence her choice of this group to criticise, but that's not something that disables or invalidates the point she is making.

The point is this: trust in social scientific or scientific research is guarenteed by its publicity - that is to say, the availability of the raw data for other researchers to attempt to replicate the conclusions, and the availability of the survey questions so that they can be subjected to validation (a statistical process). Universities have protocols which enable this access, and provide for the retention of data for a period of some years in order to facilitate it. This provides a second level of trust in the reliability of the data and the analysis above and beyond the peer review process.

This point can also be made in response to Andrew and Jason - the fact that such protocols are not normally followed in either political polling or commercial market research, and may not be in privately funded research, provides a legitimate reason to prefer academic research to the results of research which cannot be scrutinised by other researchers whose qualifications and experience enable them to evaluate its reliability and validity.

This is the other point of the post - you, and your Bush administration friends and Christians often pour  scorn on the ethical and scientific protocols which regulate research - such as peer reviewing. This is in effect a relativist if not postmodernist position. Of course, it's applied selectively. You've claimed that university research is inferior to the marketplace of ideas on the internet. However, if you were to seek medical treatment for a potentially dangerous ailment, you would presumably repose trust in medical professionals whose diagnosis and treatment are predicated on public, open and replicable research tested through clinical trials and peer review. In other words, there is a very important point at stake in the defence of the protocols which produce trust in expert research and its applications, as well as the other issues which I'm alluding to.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To respond to your point, EP. Cox is indeed a feminist scholar and this is well known. However this does not invalidate the criticisms she makes. It may influence her choice of this group to criticise, but that&#8217;s not something that disables or invalidates the point she is making.</p>
<p>The point is this: trust in social scientific or scientific research is guarenteed by its publicity - that is to say, the availability of the raw data for other researchers to attempt to replicate the conclusions, and the availability of the survey questions so that they can be subjected to validation (a statistical process). Universities have protocols which enable this access, and provide for the retention of data for a period of some years in order to facilitate it. This provides a second level of trust in the reliability of the data and the analysis above and beyond the peer review process.</p>
<p>This point can also be made in response to Andrew and Jason - the fact that such protocols are not normally followed in either political polling or commercial market research, and may not be in privately funded research, provides a legitimate reason to prefer academic research to the results of research which cannot be scrutinised by other researchers whose qualifications and experience enable them to evaluate its reliability and validity.</p>
<p>This is the other point of the post - you, and your Bush administration friends and Christians often pour  scorn on the ethical and scientific protocols which regulate research - such as peer reviewing. This is in effect a relativist if not postmodernist position. Of course, it&#8217;s applied selectively. You&#8217;ve claimed that university research is inferior to the marketplace of ideas on the internet. However, if you were to seek medical treatment for a potentially dangerous ailment, you would presumably repose trust in medical professionals whose diagnosis and treatment are predicated on public, open and replicable research tested through clinical trials and peer review. In other words, there is a very important point at stake in the defence of the protocols which produce trust in expert research and its applications, as well as the other issues which I&#8217;m alluding to.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Evil Pundit</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/05/12/social-science-wars/#comment-5006</link>
		<dc:creator>Evil Pundit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 May 2005 03:54:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/05/12/social-science-wars/#comment-5006</guid>
		<description>Nevertheless, my point stands.

If the purpose of this post, and the article it quotes, is to criticise the presumed concealment of the ideological bias of the Southern Cross bioethics Institute -- then the failure to mention Eva Cox's blatant ideological bias is the height of hypocrisy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nevertheless, my point stands.</p>
<p>If the purpose of this post, and the article it quotes, is to criticise the presumed concealment of the ideological bias of the Southern Cross bioethics Institute &#8212; then the failure to mention Eva Cox&#8217;s blatant ideological bias is the height of hypocrisy.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
