There’s been an awful lot of discussion about the Howard government’s proposed IR reforms from various, left-leaning bloggers and at Catallaxy from a more right of centre viewpoint. I deplore the stripping away of basic employment terms and condition…

I read Peter Saunders new book Australia’s Welfare Habit and how to kick it whilst travelling to and from Canberra in the last couple of weeks. The book is usefully summarized in this article at the Brisbane Institute’s online magazine. Saunders is a…

Tim Dunlop has a cracker of a post on the philosophies behind the new IR “reforms” due to come into parliament once the Liberals seize control of the senate in July. In this post he spells out the dichotomous attitudes on IR policy between the left a…

Robert, pattern bargaining refers to when a union seeks to strike identical certified agreements with all employers in an industry or presents identical claims to all employers in an industry as a baseline for negotiations. This is held to be contrary to the intent of enterprise bargaining which is supposed to tailor conditions and wages to each specific workplace.

It’s very common in manufacturing, construction and higher education.

Tony, what is this - a chest thumping exercise about whose experience is more at the “sharp end”?

I’m sure since Mark has worked in this area he’s been involved in tough negotiations. Whether or not they take place at 2am on Sunday in the rain is not relevant.

The bigger point is that all of us (I imagine) are or have been in the workforce - we’ve all had experience as an employee and some as an employer, and we’ve all had to negotiate power relations at work and been affected by IR laws.

I’ve worked on both sides of the fence - as an employee and as a small business owner. And I’ve worked as an independent contractor.

These non-award employees you’re talking about are probably highly skilled workers or workers in an industry that pays high wages generally. Life ain’t so grand for labourers or cleaners, or for people in the hospitality and retail industries (the fastest growing areas of employment) who in many cases depend on things like penalty payments for a decent if frugal income. And very few employees in smaller retail or hospitality businesses get anything but award conditions at the moment.

And we’re all citizens and have a right to have a say.

I’d back up Kate’s point - I know of people in the industry I work in (also a fairly small one) who’ve had similar experiences.

Mark, I’m talking experience at what one might call the sharp end - intepreting an overtime clause over the phone at 0200 on a Sunday morning in the rain, with the shop steward shouting in your other ear.

“most of the inequities in it arise from the WRA Act” - you must be kidding. I’ve sat in a Commission hearing over demarcation disputes before the WRA Act was a twinkle in anyones eye, and I’m telling you, the inequities started a LONG time before that.

“It may be a little more complex than that, Winstanley, according to some lawyers. See this comment. I‚Äôm sure the unions and the State governments will be seeking some good legal advice on this.” My point exactly - as soon as you bring the lawyers into the employment relationship, you’ve lost, we’ve lost, everyone’s lost.

Call me an idealist, but having worked in unionised, partly unionised and “all staff” workforces, I know who’s enjoying better conditions, better employee/employer relationships, better pay and more leverage over their lifestyle. I’ll generally go with the evidence of my eyes.

“sensible reform” - Maybe it’s just the difference between a coffee house discussion and a crib room card game.

Homer - get yourself a job in the real world and have a look at how it works or doesn’t. Kate - you got one version from your friend. Maybe, just maybe, there might be a little more to it. I’ve also spent some time on the other side of an arbitrators bench on an unfair dismissal hearing - and, let me tell you, there was nothing unfair about it.

Also in Tuesday’s question time was a nice piece of illogic from the Prime Minister on the subject of the upcoming workplace relations reforms…

How many of you people actually work in unionised workplaces, negotiate awards and certified agreements/EBA’s, handle the reality of these conditions day to day, drive through picket lines over a person’s right or otherwise to join a union etc. Do you really know the first thing about “the detail”? Live it, breathe it, try to make it work every day?

I’m not discounting the need for a theoretical grasp of the system, but get out and try and make it work…

Then it will be very easy to check, won’t it? And if the flight from unions continues, then you’ll be wrong, won’t you?

Applying the precautionary principle to anything makes a nonsense of it.

Geez I hope I am wrong!

“In a constitutional corporation which employs more than 100 employees no employee shall have the right to bring unfair dismissal proceedings under Federal or State law.”

That would work in blocking out the operation of the State system. How we gonna make the workers rise “educate, agitate, organise”!

No surprise to see EBAs being of a much higher benefit to employers/employees than AWAs.

no surprise either that no employer at the Commision has been able to show the inherent ‘porductivity’ benefits of imposing AWAs.