<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><!-- generator="wordpress/2.3.3" -->
<rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Unfashionable Elitism</title>
	<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/05/31/unfashionable-elitism/</link>
	<description>Blogging politics, culture, sociology and life from Brisvegas</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 10:52:41 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.3</generator>
		<item>
		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/05/31/unfashionable-elitism/#comment-7116</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 May 2005 14:03:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/05/31/unfashionable-elitism/#comment-7116</guid>
		<description>Fair enough, wbb, sorry if I misconstrued the intention of your posts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fair enough, wbb, sorry if I misconstrued the intention of your posts.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: wbb</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/05/31/unfashionable-elitism/#comment-7114</link>
		<dc:creator>wbb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 May 2005 13:58:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/05/31/unfashionable-elitism/#comment-7114</guid>
		<description>Ah bugger it, I will post similar just to wrap it up on my own blog as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah bugger it, I will post similar just to wrap it up on my own blog as well.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: wbb</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/05/31/unfashionable-elitism/#comment-7113</link>
		<dc:creator>wbb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 May 2005 13:55:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/05/31/unfashionable-elitism/#comment-7113</guid>
		<description>I don't see my posts as contrary, but as perhaps complementary. I've no doubt the media circus has played on our xenophobia. I've also no doubt that there would be plenty of Indonesians who'd have sympathy for Corby too.

There is (obviously!) great tension between those who want to preserve correct international etiquette above all, and those who prefer to disregard any short-term ethnic sensitivities and deal with the substantive problem in isolation.

The former thus concentrate on the commercial media's crass presentation and the resulting xenophobic response. The latter, perhaps rashly given the reality of the former's fears, promote the Corby case in order to attack inhumane anti-drug laws regardless of jurisdiction.

My position was &lt;a href="http://www.wbbaboon.com/index.php?id=93" rel="nofollow"&gt;staked out&lt;/a&gt; well before the hysteria went critical. It boils down to a repugnance for the tribe sacrificing the few in the name of protecting the many who, however, happen to be in very large part complicit in the "substance abuse" problem. I didn't even mention Corby's name in that first post, as my position didn't originate with her story.

Now the current episode has turned insane. To the point that I very largely concur with Mark's points - even while finding the "white woman being violated" explanation a bit reductionist - there have been more strands involved than that.

Therefore I propose to follow Andrew Bartlett's advice from here on in.



</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t see my posts as contrary, but as perhaps complementary. I&#8217;ve no doubt the media circus has played on our xenophobia. I&#8217;ve also no doubt that there would be plenty of Indonesians who&#8217;d have sympathy for Corby too.</p>
<p>There is (obviously!) great tension between those who want to preserve correct international etiquette above all, and those who prefer to disregard any short-term ethnic sensitivities and deal with the substantive problem in isolation.</p>
<p>The former thus concentrate on the commercial media&#8217;s crass presentation and the resulting xenophobic response. The latter, perhaps rashly given the reality of the former&#8217;s fears, promote the Corby case in order to attack inhumane anti-drug laws regardless of jurisdiction.</p>
<p>My position was <a href="http://www.wbbaboon.com/index.php?id=93" rel="nofollow">staked out</a> well before the hysteria went critical. It boils down to a repugnance for the tribe sacrificing the few in the name of protecting the many who, however, happen to be in very large part complicit in the &#8220;substance abuse&#8221; problem. I didn&#8217;t even mention Corby&#8217;s name in that first post, as my position didn&#8217;t originate with her story.</p>
<p>Now the current episode has turned insane. To the point that I very largely concur with Mark&#8217;s points - even while finding the &#8220;white woman being violated&#8221; explanation a bit reductionist - there have been more strands involved than that.</p>
<p>Therefore I propose to follow Andrew Bartlett&#8217;s advice from here on in.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/05/31/unfashionable-elitism/#comment-7107</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 May 2005 12:33:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/05/31/unfashionable-elitism/#comment-7107</guid>
		<description>Doesn't quite scan, does it Fyodor?

However, Andrew's point is a good one. Panem et circenses.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Doesn&#8217;t quite scan, does it Fyodor?</p>
<p>However, Andrew&#8217;s point is a good one. Panem et circenses.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Fyodor</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/05/31/unfashionable-elitism/#comment-7100</link>
		<dc:creator>Fyodor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 May 2005 11:23:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/05/31/unfashionable-elitism/#comment-7100</guid>
		<description>Mmh, that's a curly one. What rhymes with West Papua? 

More importantly, are there any big-breasted [WHITE!] damsels involved?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mmh, that&#8217;s a curly one. What rhymes with West Papua? </p>
<p>More importantly, are there any big-breasted [WHITE!] damsels involved?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Senator Andrew Bartlett</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/05/31/unfashionable-elitism/#comment-7097</link>
		<dc:creator>Senator Andrew Bartlett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 May 2005 11:10:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/05/31/unfashionable-elitism/#comment-7097</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Make Noise on West Papua, be quieter on Schapelle&lt;/strong&gt;

Like many people, I think Schapelle Corby has had a raw deal. I also think comments along the way from Australian Federal Police Commissioner Mick Keelty have not been helpful and the assistance provided by the Australian Government has been fairly l...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Make Noise on West Papua, be quieter on Schapelle</strong></p>
<p>Like many people, I think Schapelle Corby has had a raw deal. I also think comments along the way from Australian Federal Police Commissioner Mick Keelty have not been helpful and the assistance provided by the Australian Government has been fairly l&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/05/31/unfashionable-elitism/#comment-7096</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 May 2005 11:09:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/05/31/unfashionable-elitism/#comment-7096</guid>
		<description>Anyone care to try for a libretto on the next media circus?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anyone care to try for a libretto on the next media circus?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Fyodor</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/05/31/unfashionable-elitism/#comment-7095</link>
		<dc:creator>Fyodor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 May 2005 11:07:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/05/31/unfashionable-elitism/#comment-7095</guid>
		<description>Harry,

I'll wager your sainted cargo pants that few nerds can name the opera containing the verse I lifted. An obscenely detailed recollection of The Simpsons might prove of some assistance, however.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Harry,</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll wager your sainted cargo pants that few nerds can name the opera containing the verse I lifted. An obscenely detailed recollection of The Simpsons might prove of some assistance, however.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: harry</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/05/31/unfashionable-elitism/#comment-7082</link>
		<dc:creator>harry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 May 2005 08:43:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/05/31/unfashionable-elitism/#comment-7082</guid>
		<description>Nothing says "Nerd" like quoting Gilbert and Sullivan.
Me?  I was raised on the stuff.

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nothing says &#8220;Nerd&#8221; like quoting Gilbert and Sullivan.<br />
Me?  I was raised on the stuff.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Fyodor</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/05/31/unfashionable-elitism/#comment-7080</link>
		<dc:creator>Fyodor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 May 2005 08:19:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/05/31/unfashionable-elitism/#comment-7080</guid>
		<description>A large-breasted, over-plucked maid sings from between the bars:

"For I'm called Little Buttercup -- dear Little Buttercup, 

Though I could never tell why, 

But still I'm called Buttercup -- poor little Buttercup, 

Sweet Little Buttercup I!"</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A large-breasted, over-plucked maid sings from between the bars:</p>
<p>&#8220;For I&#8217;m called Little Buttercup &#8212; dear Little Buttercup, </p>
<p>Though I could never tell why, </p>
<p>But still I&#8217;m called Buttercup &#8212; poor little Buttercup, </p>
<p>Sweet Little Buttercup I!&#8221;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Amanda</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/05/31/unfashionable-elitism/#comment-7079</link>
		<dc:creator>Amanda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 May 2005 08:18:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/05/31/unfashionable-elitism/#comment-7079</guid>
		<description>16, going on 17 (years)
We've grown accustomed to her face
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>16, going on 17 (years)<br />
We&#8217;ve grown accustomed to her face</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: liam hogan</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/05/31/unfashionable-elitism/#comment-7078</link>
		<dc:creator>liam hogan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 May 2005 07:58:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/05/31/unfashionable-elitism/#comment-7078</guid>
		<description>Of course.
"Give 'em the old razzle dazzle
Razzle Dazzle 'em
Give 'em an act with lots of flash in it
And the reaction will be passionate..."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course.<br />
&#8220;Give &#8216;em the old razzle dazzle<br />
Razzle Dazzle &#8216;em<br />
Give &#8216;em an act with lots of flash in it<br />
And the reaction will be passionate&#8230;&#8221;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Fyodor</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/05/31/unfashionable-elitism/#comment-7077</link>
		<dc:creator>Fyodor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 May 2005 07:28:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/05/31/unfashionable-elitism/#comment-7077</guid>
		<description>Indonesian prison guard: "Consider yourself at 'ome! Consider yourself part of the family!"</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Indonesian prison guard: &#8220;Consider yourself at &#8216;ome! Consider yourself part of the family!&#8221;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: liam hogan</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/05/31/unfashionable-elitism/#comment-7070</link>
		<dc:creator>liam hogan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 May 2005 06:26:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/05/31/unfashionable-elitism/#comment-7070</guid>
		<description>"...brown paper packages tied up with string,
"These are a few of my favourite things!"</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;&#8230;brown paper packages tied up with string,<br />
&#8220;These are a few of my favourite things!&#8221;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: B.S. Fairman</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/05/31/unfashionable-elitism/#comment-7069</link>
		<dc:creator>B.S. Fairman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 May 2005 06:17:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/05/31/unfashionable-elitism/#comment-7069</guid>
		<description>I am hoping like hell nobody writes "Schapelle: The Musical".  
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am hoping like hell nobody writes &#8220;Schapelle: The Musical&#8221;.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Fyodor</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/05/31/unfashionable-elitism/#comment-7067</link>
		<dc:creator>Fyodor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 May 2005 05:44:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/05/31/unfashionable-elitism/#comment-7067</guid>
		<description>"...but "cunt" is a word with you in it."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;&#8230;but &#8220;cunt&#8221; is a word with you in it.&#8221;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: liam hogan</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/05/31/unfashionable-elitism/#comment-7066</link>
		<dc:creator>liam hogan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 May 2005 05:38:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/05/31/unfashionable-elitism/#comment-7066</guid>
		<description>Satan, there's a 'c' in Schapelle. There's also a 'c' in 'chauvinist', but none in 'troll'.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Satan, there&#8217;s a &#8216;c&#8217; in Schapelle. There&#8217;s also a &#8216;c&#8217; in &#8216;chauvinist&#8217;, but none in &#8216;troll&#8217;.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Satan</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/05/31/unfashionable-elitism/#comment-7065</link>
		<dc:creator>Satan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 May 2005 05:34:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/05/31/unfashionable-elitism/#comment-7065</guid>
		<description>I got into a punch-up the other day over this issue. Does that count as striking back?

Goddamn pinko/yellow bastards pay out my Shapelle. They didn't even like her tits for God's sake. Deviants I tell you. Deviants.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I got into a punch-up the other day over this issue. Does that count as striking back?</p>
<p>Goddamn pinko/yellow bastards pay out my Shapelle. They didn&#8217;t even like her tits for God&#8217;s sake. Deviants I tell you. Deviants.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: harry</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/05/31/unfashionable-elitism/#comment-7054</link>
		<dc:creator>harry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 May 2005 03:10:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/05/31/unfashionable-elitism/#comment-7054</guid>
		<description>I think the damsel in distress is only part off it.
I think there is a bigger cultural element to it.
That is, Australia treats marijuana proportionatly much better than the Indonesians.  The idea of shooting or imprisoning for life a marijuana mule is simply ridiculous.  We don't even do that for Herion and the public perception of Heroin is that it is a bad drug, whereas pot is simply not bad - mostly because most people have or do smoke pot, whereas only a few take heroin.  The upshot is that Indonesia is seen as a backwards place compared to Australia and that when Indonesia 'grows up' it will operate like Australia.

The people asking for their donations back is, well stupid, but supports this idea.  (I made sure that the organisation I donated money to was directing it to Aceh.)  The donations smack of an older sibling helping the younger with the unspoken expectation that the younger will grow to be like the older.  I really don't think it's much more deep than that.
But now, with Corby, we have the younger asserting that their 'backward' way is superior to the older's way.  The older has responded by saying that the only reason I helped you in the first place was to make you better, ie like me, and if you reject that then you get nothing and you can get stuffed.  
The linking of tsunami relief and Corby is nonsensical apart from one thing and one thing only - they are both personalised and they are the only connection the average Aussie has ever had with Indonesia.  The donation was from one person to the people.  Due to the media attention Corby has been personalised ie we all have buy-in by the same process that makes BigBrother a success.  The people marching into court at the start of the trial waving placards reading 'Shoot her' were a slap in the face.

Essentially we were moved by compassion to help you with the tsunami and we expect you to show compassion for one of ours.  You didn't, so we strike back.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the damsel in distress is only part off it.<br />
I think there is a bigger cultural element to it.<br />
That is, Australia treats marijuana proportionatly much better than the Indonesians.  The idea of shooting or imprisoning for life a marijuana mule is simply ridiculous.  We don&#8217;t even do that for Herion and the public perception of Heroin is that it is a bad drug, whereas pot is simply not bad - mostly because most people have or do smoke pot, whereas only a few take heroin.  The upshot is that Indonesia is seen as a backwards place compared to Australia and that when Indonesia &#8216;grows up&#8217; it will operate like Australia.</p>
<p>The people asking for their donations back is, well stupid, but supports this idea.  (I made sure that the organisation I donated money to was directing it to Aceh.)  The donations smack of an older sibling helping the younger with the unspoken expectation that the younger will grow to be like the older.  I really don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s much more deep than that.<br />
But now, with Corby, we have the younger asserting that their &#8216;backward&#8217; way is superior to the older&#8217;s way.  The older has responded by saying that the only reason I helped you in the first place was to make you better, ie like me, and if you reject that then you get nothing and you can get stuffed.<br />
The linking of tsunami relief and Corby is nonsensical apart from one thing and one thing only - they are both personalised and they are the only connection the average Aussie has ever had with Indonesia.  The donation was from one person to the people.  Due to the media attention Corby has been personalised ie we all have buy-in by the same process that makes BigBrother a success.  The people marching into court at the start of the trial waving placards reading &#8216;Shoot her&#8217; were a slap in the face.</p>
<p>Essentially we were moved by compassion to help you with the tsunami and we expect you to show compassion for one of ours.  You didn&#8217;t, so we strike back.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Mindy</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/05/31/unfashionable-elitism/#comment-7048</link>
		<dc:creator>Mindy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 May 2005 01:16:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/05/31/unfashionable-elitism/#comment-7048</guid>
		<description>IMHO a lot of the controversy is because there is a question of whether she is innocent or not. Buggered if I know. The media can play on the whole innocent thing and make a huge deal out of it, and lots of ratings. Unlike the Bali 9 who were found with the drugs strapped to their bodies and who can't deny that they had knowledge of the drugs. Her being attractive doesn't hurt, but I don't think you can boil it down to her being a white woman in a non-Anglo country. If she was undoubtedly guilty, then the campaigning would be for her to serve her sentence in Australia and not face the death penalty. But because there is still a question of her innocence the whole thing has blown up into a huge media circus. There was a suggestion last night that a Mexican woman caught in 2002 with 7kgs of dope only got 7 years... </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>IMHO a lot of the controversy is because there is a question of whether she is innocent or not. Buggered if I know. The media can play on the whole innocent thing and make a huge deal out of it, and lots of ratings. Unlike the Bali 9 who were found with the drugs strapped to their bodies and who can&#8217;t deny that they had knowledge of the drugs. Her being attractive doesn&#8217;t hurt, but I don&#8217;t think you can boil it down to her being a white woman in a non-Anglo country. If she was undoubtedly guilty, then the campaigning would be for her to serve her sentence in Australia and not face the death penalty. But because there is still a question of her innocence the whole thing has blown up into a huge media circus. There was a suggestion last night that a Mexican woman caught in 2002 with 7kgs of dope only got 7 years&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
