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	<title>Comments on: Trust</title>
	<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/07/25/trust/</link>
	<description>Blogging politics, culture, sociology and life from Brisvegas</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 05:43:47 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.3</generator>
		<item>
		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/07/25/trust/#comment-16414</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jul 2005 08:06:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/07/25/trust/#comment-16414</guid>
		<description>dj, it was pointed out to me that it was a good idea in the early 90s by a number of female friends. I listened.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>dj, it was pointed out to me that it was a good idea in the early 90s by a number of female friends. I listened.</p>
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		<title>By: dj</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/07/25/trust/#comment-16407</link>
		<dc:creator>dj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jul 2005 07:31:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/07/25/trust/#comment-16407</guid>
		<description>As a cyclist, I dont 'trust' other traffic. Experience has taught me this and several scars remind me not to.

Mark, you are the first person I have seen describe crossing to the other side of the street to not scare someone. I used to think I was being over the top for doing so.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a cyclist, I dont &#8216;trust&#8217; other traffic. Experience has taught me this and several scars remind me not to.</p>
<p>Mark, you are the first person I have seen describe crossing to the other side of the street to not scare someone. I used to think I was being over the top for doing so.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Leigh</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/07/25/trust/#comment-16381</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Leigh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jul 2005 04:03:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/07/25/trust/#comment-16381</guid>
		<description>A belated response to Kate's point. In the US, surveys that pooled data from the 1970s to the 1990s found women were less trusting than men. So I tested this for Australia, and found no gender differences. This puzzled me, so I went to the US data, and found that if you only used 1990s figures, there's no gender trust gap in the US either.

I find this interesting, esp as I have another paper showing that there's no gender voting difference between men and women any longer. Doesn't say much for the Mars &#38; Venus view of the world....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A belated response to Kate&#8217;s point. In the US, surveys that pooled data from the 1970s to the 1990s found women were less trusting than men. So I tested this for Australia, and found no gender differences. This puzzled me, so I went to the US data, and found that if you only used 1990s figures, there&#8217;s no gender trust gap in the US either.</p>
<p>I find this interesting, esp as I have another paper showing that there&#8217;s no gender voting difference between men and women any longer. Doesn&#8217;t say much for the Mars &amp; Venus view of the world&#8230;.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/07/25/trust/#comment-16354</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jul 2005 02:50:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/07/25/trust/#comment-16354</guid>
		<description>Classical learning needs a revival!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Classical learning needs a revival!</p>
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		<title>By: BourbonBird</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/07/25/trust/#comment-16351</link>
		<dc:creator>BourbonBird</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jul 2005 02:49:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/07/25/trust/#comment-16351</guid>
		<description>Thanks!  I dig my tatt, too, but the questions about it have been odd.  

Dr Pathologist at work:  'So who's Veni, Vidi and Vicki?'

...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks!  I dig my tatt, too, but the questions about it have been odd.  </p>
<p>Dr Pathologist at work:  &#8216;So who&#8217;s Veni, Vidi and Vicki?&#8217;</p>
<p>&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Kate</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/07/25/trust/#comment-16278</link>
		<dc:creator>Kate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jul 2005 00:55:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/07/25/trust/#comment-16278</guid>
		<description>I think there are numerous ways of trusting. The trust I have in my partner not to go off and have sex with another woman is different to the trust I have that the lady at the corner shop won't rip me off at the till. 

As for trusting, Kim and I both sport gravatars which are excellent likenesses, so you can trust both of us, of course.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think there are numerous ways of trusting. The trust I have in my partner not to go off and have sex with another woman is different to the trust I have that the lady at the corner shop won&#8217;t rip me off at the till. </p>
<p>As for trusting, Kim and I both sport gravatars which are excellent likenesses, so you can trust both of us, of course.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/07/25/trust/#comment-16253</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jul 2005 15:53:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/07/25/trust/#comment-16253</guid>
		<description>I'm inclined to agree, Kim. And Latin tattoos are the excellentness!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m inclined to agree, Kim. And Latin tattoos are the excellentness!</p>
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		<title>By: Kim</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/07/25/trust/#comment-16243</link>
		<dc:creator>Kim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jul 2005 15:17:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/07/25/trust/#comment-16243</guid>
		<description>BourbonBird, you have the best tattoo!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BourbonBird, you have the best tattoo!</p>
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		<title>By: boynton</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/07/25/trust/#comment-16169</link>
		<dc:creator>boynton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jul 2005 11:17:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/07/25/trust/#comment-16169</guid>
		<description>I wouldn't.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wouldn&#8217;t.</p>
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		<title>By: Nabakov</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/07/25/trust/#comment-16168</link>
		<dc:creator>Nabakov</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jul 2005 11:05:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/07/25/trust/#comment-16168</guid>
		<description>Ooh, I see gravatars are back. But can you trust someone who won't put their face (or name) to their comment?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ooh, I see gravatars are back. But can you trust someone who won&#8217;t put their face (or name) to their comment?</p>
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		<title>By: Nabakov</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/07/25/trust/#comment-16166</link>
		<dc:creator>Nabakov</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jul 2005 10:54:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/07/25/trust/#comment-16166</guid>
		<description>Both BourbonBird and Amanda raise interesting points about the sometimes arbitary way in which trust can or cannot be rewarded.

Twice I've regarded my trust as seriously betrayed, and that was by people I thought I knew and was prepared to trust. However in both cases it was only financial damage and not a direct threat to my person.

Whereas a couple of other times I found myself in very dodgy places (eg: third dens of vice in the wee small hours) with things very turning nasty, only to be safely extricated by complete strangers I had to trust.  

As to neighbourhood cultures, as a long time inner city denzien - and self-confident and solidly built (at least around the middle) white male - in various cities, I've never felt threatened in any of them the way I would at a lonely outer suburban railway station when a bunch of pissed and testosterone-amped louts spills out onto the platform. 

But as Sachmo points out, it's always worth keeping a weather eye on the street dynamics around you. A good tip when travelling through high-mugging risk regions, is to pack a wallet with nothing it but a few bucks poking out, so if you get bailed up toss the wallet. They'll pretty much always go after that not you, providing some "get the fuck out of there" time.

However I also like the fact that in inner city villages, the trust can go both ways in little ways, like the corner shop giving you ciggies on tick or the local hardware store lending you a ladder 'cos you locked your keys inside.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Both BourbonBird and Amanda raise interesting points about the sometimes arbitary way in which trust can or cannot be rewarded.</p>
<p>Twice I&#8217;ve regarded my trust as seriously betrayed, and that was by people I thought I knew and was prepared to trust. However in both cases it was only financial damage and not a direct threat to my person.</p>
<p>Whereas a couple of other times I found myself in very dodgy places (eg: third dens of vice in the wee small hours) with things very turning nasty, only to be safely extricated by complete strangers I had to trust.  </p>
<p>As to neighbourhood cultures, as a long time inner city denzien - and self-confident and solidly built (at least around the middle) white male - in various cities, I&#8217;ve never felt threatened in any of them the way I would at a lonely outer suburban railway station when a bunch of pissed and testosterone-amped louts spills out onto the platform. </p>
<p>But as Sachmo points out, it&#8217;s always worth keeping a weather eye on the street dynamics around you. A good tip when travelling through high-mugging risk regions, is to pack a wallet with nothing it but a few bucks poking out, so if you get bailed up toss the wallet. They&#8217;ll pretty much always go after that not you, providing some &#8220;get the fuck out of there&#8221; time.</p>
<p>However I also like the fact that in inner city villages, the trust can go both ways in little ways, like the corner shop giving you ciggies on tick or the local hardware store lending you a ladder &#8216;cos you locked your keys inside.</p>
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		<title>By: BourbonBird</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/07/25/trust/#comment-16164</link>
		<dc:creator>BourbonBird</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jul 2005 10:42:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/07/25/trust/#comment-16164</guid>
		<description>:)

Cheers, Mark.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> <img src='http://larvatusprodeo.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Cheers, Mark.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/07/25/trust/#comment-16163</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jul 2005 10:41:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/07/25/trust/#comment-16163</guid>
		<description>There's no reason at all for you to say sorry, BourbonBird.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s no reason at all for you to say sorry, BourbonBird.</p>
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		<title>By: BourbonBird</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/07/25/trust/#comment-16160</link>
		<dc:creator>BourbonBird</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jul 2005 10:30:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/07/25/trust/#comment-16160</guid>
		<description>While I wouldn't wish whatever's happened to me on anybody, it is something I've made positive in my life.  Trust is something I take very seriously these days, and someone who had it, had it taken away, and as someone who abused it in several crucial times in my life.  

Sorry I made it such an individual thing, but the trust I gave, lost, and abused has affected the way I deal with every single person I come across, personally or otherwise.  It partly describes my position (or my perception of my position) in society.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I wouldn&#8217;t wish whatever&#8217;s happened to me on anybody, it is something I&#8217;ve made positive in my life.  Trust is something I take very seriously these days, and someone who had it, had it taken away, and as someone who abused it in several crucial times in my life.  </p>
<p>Sorry I made it such an individual thing, but the trust I gave, lost, and abused has affected the way I deal with every single person I come across, personally or otherwise.  It partly describes my position (or my perception of my position) in society.</p>
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		<title>By: Amanda</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/07/25/trust/#comment-16156</link>
		<dc:creator>Amanda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jul 2005 09:47:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/07/25/trust/#comment-16156</guid>
		<description>I find it a bit odd to talk of "trusting" society or people I have never met, I mean, I know we do but my initial reponse to the word is more personal. Anyway, an aside.

A few unrelated (or not) things come to mind.  In Moscow, there aren't many official taxis and those that are, are expensive. The done thing -- and I assume this dates back to Soviet days when petrol etc was tough to come by and people have to jerry rig their social relations to maximise opportunities -- is to flag down a random car, agree a price and go. I initially baulked at the idea because essentially it is hitch hiking which I would never,ever, ever, ever, ever do here. But it is amazing how you quickly you can ditch your principles when youre pissed, its 2.30am, its 20 below and the metro has closed.  Vitually all the drivers who picked you up were men, which ratchets up the what-were-you-thinking-are-you-insane factor  and I still haven't told my mum. But it was common practice, it was accepted and despite dozens of these trips I only ever had one situation which was dodgy and even that was far more comical than threatening.  I would never do it here though, and of course Aussie drivers wouldnt stop.  Its a culture thing, yo.

Also, in my position as Professional Killjoy Skeptic I think people are &lt;i&gt;far too trusting&lt;/i&gt; in many situations. People can be fooled and fool themsleves so easily, the powers of the minds to create patterns and meaning where objectively there is none is truly awesome. People believe what they see on A Current Affair about the latest cancer quackery or diet pills. They forward on the most ridculous urban myth chain letters.They  are disinclined to believe there as many hustlers in the world than there are.  They accept at face value things which take about five seconds of critical thought to bust apart. And when I say "them" I really mean "I".  I'm a very trusting person which can often translate to gullibility and so as a defence the last couple of years have been an exercise for me in becoming more aware, more skpetical and less "trusting" in that sense.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find it a bit odd to talk of &#8220;trusting&#8221; society or people I have never met, I mean, I know we do but my initial reponse to the word is more personal. Anyway, an aside.</p>
<p>A few unrelated (or not) things come to mind.  In Moscow, there aren&#8217;t many official taxis and those that are, are expensive. The done thing &#8212; and I assume this dates back to Soviet days when petrol etc was tough to come by and people have to jerry rig their social relations to maximise opportunities &#8212; is to flag down a random car, agree a price and go. I initially baulked at the idea because essentially it is hitch hiking which I would never,ever, ever, ever, ever do here. But it is amazing how you quickly you can ditch your principles when youre pissed, its 2.30am, its 20 below and the metro has closed.  Vitually all the drivers who picked you up were men, which ratchets up the what-were-you-thinking-are-you-insane factor  and I still haven&#8217;t told my mum. But it was common practice, it was accepted and despite dozens of these trips I only ever had one situation which was dodgy and even that was far more comical than threatening.  I would never do it here though, and of course Aussie drivers wouldnt stop.  Its a culture thing, yo.</p>
<p>Also, in my position as Professional Killjoy Skeptic I think people are <i>far too trusting</i> in many situations. People can be fooled and fool themsleves so easily, the powers of the minds to create patterns and meaning where objectively there is none is truly awesome. People believe what they see on A Current Affair about the latest cancer quackery or diet pills. They forward on the most ridculous urban myth chain letters.They  are disinclined to believe there as many hustlers in the world than there are.  They accept at face value things which take about five seconds of critical thought to bust apart. And when I say &#8220;them&#8221; I really mean &#8220;I&#8221;.  I&#8217;m a very trusting person which can often translate to gullibility and so as a defence the last couple of years have been an exercise for me in becoming more aware, more skpetical and less &#8220;trusting&#8221; in that sense.</p>
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		<title>By: Luke</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/07/25/trust/#comment-16146</link>
		<dc:creator>Luke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jul 2005 08:54:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/07/25/trust/#comment-16146</guid>
		<description>BB,

That's fucked, what happened to you. Good on you for boxing on since.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BB,</p>
<p>That&#8217;s fucked, what happened to you. Good on you for boxing on since.</p>
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		<title>By: Kate</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/07/25/trust/#comment-16140</link>
		<dc:creator>Kate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jul 2005 08:31:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/07/25/trust/#comment-16140</guid>
		<description>BourbonBird, I'm sorry to hear that happened to you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BourbonBird, I&#8217;m sorry to hear that happened to you.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/07/25/trust/#comment-16139</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jul 2005 08:17:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/07/25/trust/#comment-16139</guid>
		<description>Yes, BourbonBird, I read about your experiences on your blog. I admire you for being so open about it. I once gave a lecture on gender and crime and was talking about rape, and an older female student piped up to say that she'd been raped. I think people didn't know how to deal with it, but I thought of an article by one of my favourite writers, Joan Didion, who argued that victims of sexual assault are damaged by being silenced by social convention too.

I don't want to address this just to you, and I hope it doesn't sound trite, but despite things that have happened to me which have lessened my desire to trust, I've found that openness to people really pays off. You just need to cut your losses when it's betrayed too often. 

I used to be extremely shy - which held me back in a lot of areas - and over the years that changed. One strange milestone for me was being extremely ill last year which gave me quite a different perspective on things. I've also found it extremely liberating to reflect on the insight that almost nothing is as bad as you might anticipate it being.

Trying not to sound too emo or Oprah - or to usurp &lt;a href="http://www.pissnvinegar.com/2005/07/23/stoush/" rel="nofollow"&gt;Miss Piss'&lt;/a&gt; promised agony aunt blog column.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, BourbonBird, I read about your experiences on your blog. I admire you for being so open about it. I once gave a lecture on gender and crime and was talking about rape, and an older female student piped up to say that she&#8217;d been raped. I think people didn&#8217;t know how to deal with it, but I thought of an article by one of my favourite writers, Joan Didion, who argued that victims of sexual assault are damaged by being silenced by social convention too.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t want to address this just to you, and I hope it doesn&#8217;t sound trite, but despite things that have happened to me which have lessened my desire to trust, I&#8217;ve found that openness to people really pays off. You just need to cut your losses when it&#8217;s betrayed too often. </p>
<p>I used to be extremely shy - which held me back in a lot of areas - and over the years that changed. One strange milestone for me was being extremely ill last year which gave me quite a different perspective on things. I&#8217;ve also found it extremely liberating to reflect on the insight that almost nothing is as bad as you might anticipate it being.</p>
<p>Trying not to sound too emo or Oprah - or to usurp <a href="http://www.pissnvinegar.com/2005/07/23/stoush/" rel="nofollow">Miss Piss&#8217;</a> promised agony aunt blog column.</p>
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		<title>By: BourbonBird</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/07/25/trust/#comment-16136</link>
		<dc:creator>BourbonBird</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jul 2005 08:03:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/07/25/trust/#comment-16136</guid>
		<description>I suppose my distrust was initially culturally motivated.  My parents were trying to scare me away from white folk (Filipinos living in Brisbane), but if anything, it taught me not to trust their word.  Not only because it was blatantly racist, but because it was a load bollocks.  

I was also raped by an ex-boyfriend in his unit in Hamilton.  He lived in a fully secure penthouse with a couple of housemates and was surrounded by other units and homes.  Lights were on and I could see people were moving around in their cosy little houses, but nobody moved when I screamed for help.  

I have serious trust issues, but I smile when I remember being able to leave the door unlocked and the car windows open with music blaring out of it -- the soundtrack and background to my childhood before it went pear-shaped.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I suppose my distrust was initially culturally motivated.  My parents were trying to scare me away from white folk (Filipinos living in Brisbane), but if anything, it taught me not to trust their word.  Not only because it was blatantly racist, but because it was a load bollocks.  </p>
<p>I was also raped by an ex-boyfriend in his unit in Hamilton.  He lived in a fully secure penthouse with a couple of housemates and was surrounded by other units and homes.  Lights were on and I could see people were moving around in their cosy little houses, but nobody moved when I screamed for help.  </p>
<p>I have serious trust issues, but I smile when I remember being able to leave the door unlocked and the car windows open with music blaring out of it &#8212; the soundtrack and background to my childhood before it went pear-shaped.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/07/25/trust/#comment-16127</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jul 2005 07:18:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/07/25/trust/#comment-16127</guid>
		<description>It's certainly true that life events can make us more wary. It's also true that some others can make us less afraid.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s certainly true that life events can make us more wary. It&#8217;s also true that some others can make us less afraid.</p>
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