In the wake of Peter Costello’s chiding of Archbishop Aspinall for his views on IR (”Archbishop Aspinall’s theological degree doesn’t make him an expert on IR”), there’s a delicious irony in the blurb Tony Percy attaches to an op/ed piece on IR:
Father Tony Percy is parish priest in Ardlethan, rural New South Wales, and has a B Comm (Hons) from the University of New South Wales.
As someone who has a B Comm (Hons) from Griffith University, I tip my mortarboard to the good Father. He also has some very cogent things to say about the employment relationship being more than just a contract, and the realities of individual bargaining.
In other IR online news, it’s nice to see that Rob Corr has contributed to a US blog telling readers about the Australian union movement’s strategy.
While I have no time whatsover for anyone trying to organise my beliefs according to how others organise theirs, those three priests on Denton tonight were cool. I’d trust ‘em unconditionally with my women, money or enterprises. The liquour however would be another matter
Someone watches Denton? I thought you weren’t one for the telly, Nabs.
Yes, “Soul of the Century” was pretty funny. And Bob recoiling at the sight of the Cardinal.
I just caught the end of that and missed Kristofferson.
I know McGuire is a mick, and I guessed the ex punk leather jacket guy was Uniting and the middle aboriginal guy anglican by their manner and dress. Any clues?
How was K Kristofferson?
“I thought you weren‚Äôt one for the telly, Nabs”
Generally yes (by which I mean no). But as a longstanding member of APRA I’m always up to hear what great songwriters have to say, and in this case Kris Kristofferson - who I’d put up there with Jimmy Webb, Johnny Mercer, Hank Williams, Johnny Cash and Pete Seeger as one of the great lonesome highway ballad writers and performers of 20th century America.
The interview itself? Well, Kris, that ole’ self-handcarved icon, wasn’t gonna spill any new juice on colonial TV - and has seen off far better interlocators than young Andy. Aside from an interesting riff on “Heaven’s Gate”, he basically measured and handled Denton like a toothpick. As you’d expect from the bloke who wrote:
“Busted flat in Baton Rouge, headin‚Äô for the trains,
Feelin’ nearly faded as my jeans.
Bobby thumbed a diesel down just before it rained,
Took us all the way to New Orleans.
Took my harpoon out of my dirty red bandana
And was blowin’ sad while Bobby sang the blues,
With them windshield wipers slappin’ time and
Bobby clappin’ hands we finally sang up every song
That driver knew.
Freedom’s just another word for nothin’ left to lose,
And nothin’ ain’t worth nothin’ but it’s free,
Feelin’ good was easy, lord, when Bobby sang the blues,
And buddy, that was good enough for me,
Good enough for me and my Bobby Mcgee.
From the coalmines of Kentucky to the California sun,
Bobby shared the secrets of my soul,
Standin’ right beside me through everythin’ I done,
And every night she kept me from the cold.
The somewhere near Salinas, Lord, I let her slip away,
She was lookin’ for the love I hope she’ll find,
Well I’d trade all my tomorrows for a single yesterday,
Holdin’ Bobby’s body close to mine.
Freedom’s just another word for nothin’ left to lose,
And nothin’ left was all she left to me,
Feelin’ good was easy, lord, when Bobby sang the blues,
And buddy, that was good enough for me.
Good enough for me and Bobby Mcgee.”
Co-wrote, with Fred Foster. It was an alright interview, I don’t think Denton is the bees knees of interviewers like others but it was alright. I’m seeing his two Sydney shows.
Turned off when the priests came on. Can’t say if they meddled. Was one of them John Smith? *flashback*
I don’t usually watch Denton, but was interested in hearing what Kristofferson was going to say. His Heaven’s Gate rant was interesting, and the way he talked about his adopted children was very touching. The interview did feel like as though Denton was just going through a check list of the different phases of Kristofferson’s life.
The priests though were excellent. Each of them worth a full in depth interview on their own. McGuire was amazing - funny and passionate, and very acerbic in his comments on the Sydney church hierarchy.
though Denton was just going through a check list of the different phases of Kristofferson’s life.
That’s his standard thing. He has the “I read where you … ” mode of interviewing down pat. He gives space to his guests and can pursue an interesting line if its offered which gives the impression of far greater profundity and insight than actually exists. Lawsy talked to Kris yesterday and Denton can’t hold a candle to him as an interviewer.
Peter costello has obviously not learnt anything when he attended Blackburn Baptist or now when he go to Sy Hillary’s.
The bible is the best education for anyone to make a statement about anything.
Percy’s article is remarkably good for a catholic priest. I dol like the term covenant as that is what should be.
however in the end it is about power and information.
The individual has little information in which to enter a covenant. It is the employer that has the information.
Also importat is the fact no employer is going to have individualised contracts.
They might have the same contract signed by individuals but this is different.
Individual contracts would mean increased transaction costs.
Percy’s article is remarkably good for a catholic priest.
Considering we invented social justice theology - while the anglos were still riding goats around masonic halls!
Those priests demonstrated why no-one bothers with Church. The Anglican Hitler look-alike couldn’t have been more pathetic - peppering his answers with as much ‘please like me’ vernacular as possible. Silly old Bob was doing his usual ‘please like me - I’m a true blue, fair dinkum, ridgy-dish sensible bloke’ schtick. Had nothing intelligent to say, as usual. The Aboriginal cleric risks being booted from the Uniting ‘church’ with his relative orthodoxy. Probably the most dignified of the lot, though.
Back to the topic. Percy’s piece leaves cold, despite agreeing with his point about the unrealistic rhetoric and presumptions of individual contracts.
Is it really the case that work is just a mere contract? Do we just turn up for work on Monday, do the job, collect the pay, and go home on Friday? Is it true that a person can work in a firm, factory, mine, school, council, government, corporation, and so on, and simply go home each week, year after year, and be unaffected by the experience? Can work be adequately described by the word “contract” - a sterile contract at that?
Uh huh, yes. That’s exactly what work is, for most of us. And to me that “sterile” attitude is liberating, not enslaving because it doesn not place this experience at the centre of my life. One day I’d like to be able to pay the bills in a way that coincides with my real life sure, but until then I do want a sterile contract with my employer, thanks. One with adequate protections from unions, govt and other organs to redress the inherent unbalance of power between us. Work has no greater hold over my soul or my “person” than that. I am not fulfilling my earthly destiny (not that I have one) by being here — that attitude sounds pretty enslaving to me.
What worries me is that the Aspinallists never criticised unions for their undemocratic autocracy. That would have required actual - as opposed to faux - courage. If reform had been initiated by unions themselves over the years, the HR Nicholls fetishists may have been marginalised. The Australian union movement sustainied the White Australia policy. We shouldn’t have any illusions that collectivism is always good, always efficacious or always remotely Christian.
the easy way to evaluate this on a biblical basis is to ask what will happen to my neighbour.
It is very hard to argue that the proposed new laws will mean that employers treat their neighbours better.
CL,
That is because Aspinall has a poor understanding of the bible which is why he is the Archbishop!
Perhaps they should have been having a go at the SDA for its closed shop deals with employers, C.L.? Denouncing Joe de Bruyn for his undemocratic autocracy?
Some unions are ‘bad.’ Howardian.
Oh no, C.L., I’m a big supporter of the SDA. Just wondering if you included grouper unions on your list of those that Archbishop Aspinall should condemn.
Why not? My point is that democratic transparency was always the best way not only for unions to counter suggestions of recklessness but also to move with the times. Instead, a few weeks ago we saw large groups of men hoisting their arms up in unison during ‘votes’ on IR action against the government. Aspirationals watching that these days think: what a bunch of losers.
It didn’t make the best tv, C.L. However, I doubt that the result would have been different in a secret ballot.
Nabs is right about that Kristofferson interview. Great songwriter and interesting personality. A lot brainier than dear little Andrew. What a shemozzle some sections of his interview became. When Kris started crying, it was to do with the two children he adopted after their mother had been shot in front of their eyes in San Salvador. It was a touching and - for a while - sildenly solemn moment: man, nearly 70, contemplates two people he loves dearly and recollects the tragedy the three of them had perforce to overcome over long, hard years.
Denton: “The two boys were [something]…”
Kris: “…[*sniff*] two girls…”
erratum: “sildenly [silently] solemn…”
This is one of the many reasons why I am so not a Denton fan, C.L.
I am interested in what people think about Percy’s article.
Any takers?
I’ve already said that I largely agree with him in the post, Homer.
I already know that Mark what about other people particulary those pagans and their thoughts on a covenat.
Homer, “covenant” in this sense doesn’t necessarily have to be read in the religious sense. You could agree with Percy that an employment relationship should be more than a mere contract without taking on board his religious premisses.
This pagan had her say (and thanks for fixing the italics). “Relationship” is better, but I still find his idealisation of the purpose/experience of work quite unnerving. If you get rid of his religous premisses there isn;t much to the article.
C.L, a beautiful description of that Kris moment, thanks.
A covenant - implying a profound mutuality of interest - could be turned around to justify wage cuts, working overtime and otherwise pitching in for the good of the enterprise. Where money is concerned, only hard-headed laws work in IR.
I think the government is being foolish on this agenda. Unions aren’t going away and these reforms are probably one roll-back Big Kimbo Sysyphus will make good on. In other words, it’s not reform for the ages; its short-term ideological bollocks. That’s the flipside of my union criticisms above. As I implied, the immobilism and corporatist lethargy of unions over the past 20 years brought all this on.
Nevertheless, organising labour is a fundamental human right. At war just now with incivility writ very large and dangerous, we should be celebrating and strengthening our traditions, not vitiating them for the sake of Bert Kelly’s ghost.
CL and Amanda thanks for the descriptions of the Krisofferson interview. Not surprised that Laws did it better. Despite the fact that I don’t like him or his singing he does at least clearly understand country music, Denton probably sneers at it and says “yeeha” thinking its funny.
CL - loved your descriptions of the 3 clergy. I got the Uniting and Anglican guys wrong. I’m not all that impressed by McGuire. CL you are rapidly turning into my favourite grumpy old skool catholic. I’ll be asking for an autographed pic from you soon. In the form of a “Holy Card”. Keep up the good work.
A covenant in this instance would be simialr to ones we see in the bible between god and Israel where Israel breaks them in every instance!
There is a cost but also a benefit.
The blurb at Online Opinion refers to a theology degree, but not to his B Comm (Hons).
It’s been edited! How odd! I cut and pasted it from the site last night.
Um I didn’t get the Percy article. About the only valid point was the difficulty faced by individuals negotiating contracts without the gammut of legal and other support.
Did not see Denton. Not surprised to hear the three priests were a joke. That’s the ABC’s take on Christianity.
A general comment: when I hear people rail about unions I am sometimes wary that they treat them as some monolithic group and usually in terms to conjure up images of thuggery, complete with picthers of building and construction unionists. However, when I have spoken to friends over the years the picture is much more variegated and different. For example, someone told my ages ago that the old closed shop policy in the banking sector was initiated by employers who wanted to lock in a very benign union and lock out any other unions likely to rock the boat. Someone else pointed out that Australian unions were the most regulated unions in the world. Another mentioned a survey where the average Aussie would think unions have too much power, but when the same person is asked, are you a member of a union and does your union have too much power, invariably the answer was that their own union was powerless. Another said many unions supported equal pay for work of equal value for women in the 70s partly out of fear that women would underut the men in the competition for jobs during a period of high unemployment and inflation. And so on and so on. Now I don’t know how much of what I have heard over the years is fair or true but I have gained an impression of a far more complex set of organisations and relationships which does not gel with some of the rhetoric in the public sphere. And which certainly doesn’t gel with the way the media seems to report IR issues. Just an observation.
P.S. While I personally cannot stand Aspinall et al. nor the heresy he preaches as the gospel, that does not preclude him or anyone else from making commentary about policy (as to how representative he or others are of Christians or their church is another matter). To fret about what qualifications one has is to fall for the Costello trap. And I don’t care whether a church is an employer or not. All Aussie citizens regardless of their religious affiliation or education or social status are called to - have the right to - assess and question government policy, keep the government accountable, make up their own minds - no matter how ‘imperfectly’ they do so. And yes, even ministers vote.
I’m with Saint. The only worthwhile part of the padre’s article was the concise description of the power imbalance inherent in all but a very few employment relationships.
saint, yeah, Unions are complex and differentiated beasts.
Incidentally, surveys for several years now have found that Australians no longer think that unions have too much power.
Saint,
I am dissapointed.
A covenant is a two way street.
to put meat on Percy’s article both employer and employee need to act in their neighbour’s interest in their behaviour.
to put an example bludging would be unacceptable nor would no allowance for family problems.