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	<title>Comments on: Islam, Feminism, Modernity, Australia</title>
	<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/08/30/islam-feminism-modernity-australia/</link>
	<description>Blogging politics, culture, sociology and life from Brisvegas</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 00:45:02 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.3</generator>
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		<title>By: Richard Townsend (caliibre)</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/08/30/islam-feminism-modernity-australia/#comment-74673</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Townsend (caliibre)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 May 2006 12:01:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/08/30/islam-feminism-modernity-australia/#comment-74673</guid>
		<description>On Islamic Dress Codes...

Those that insist on enforcing womenâ€™s dress codes which, in the most conservative examples, force women to go about in what could be viewed as â€˜sacksâ€™ with eye holes cut in them are not, in my view, protecting the honour of women. Rather they are dishonouring themselves by demonstrating that they donâ€™t have the strength of character, sincerity of spirit or personal will to control their own basest instincts. The emotional (EQ) and spiritual (SQ) quotients of intelligence seem to be lacking in many. IQ is a â€˜flukeâ€™ and is not enough, the other two quotients are essential in large amounts to overcome personal stupidity or is it that they suffer from plain old â€˜dumbnessâ€™ borne of a cultural indoctrination that looks to the past and pleads for the return of the â€˜dark agesâ€™!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On Islamic Dress Codes&#8230;</p>
<p>Those that insist on enforcing womenâ€™s dress codes which, in the most conservative examples, force women to go about in what could be viewed as â€˜sacksâ€™ with eye holes cut in them are not, in my view, protecting the honour of women. Rather they are dishonouring themselves by demonstrating that they donâ€™t have the strength of character, sincerity of spirit or personal will to control their own basest instincts. The emotional (EQ) and spiritual (SQ) quotients of intelligence seem to be lacking in many. IQ is a â€˜flukeâ€™ and is not enough, the other two quotients are essential in large amounts to overcome personal stupidity or is it that they suffer from plain old â€˜dumbnessâ€™ borne of a cultural indoctrination that looks to the past and pleads for the return of the â€˜dark agesâ€™!</p>
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		<title>By: Evil pundit of doom!</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/08/30/islam-feminism-modernity-australia/#comment-24699</link>
		<dc:creator>Evil pundit of doom!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Sep 2005 11:00:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/08/30/islam-feminism-modernity-australia/#comment-24699</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Headgear freedom assured&lt;/strong&gt;

Australian government leaders have issued assurances that a ban on Islamic headscarves in schools, proposed by some politicians, will not be introduced. This will no doubt come as a relief to people who were concerned that the rights and freedoms...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Headgear freedom assured</strong></p>
<p>Australian government leaders have issued assurances that a ban on Islamic headscarves in schools, proposed by some politicians, will not be introduced. This will no doubt come as a relief to people who were concerned that the rights and freedoms&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Sisyphus</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/08/30/islam-feminism-modernity-australia/#comment-24565</link>
		<dc:creator>Sisyphus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Sep 2005 23:56:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/08/30/islam-feminism-modernity-australia/#comment-24565</guid>
		<description>Love your haiku, hate your logic. Just because some loonies on the right want to demonise moderate Islam (Bolt et al); it does not follow that the Left should patronise (deliberate) a classic fascism just because a 'good ol' boy' happens to oppose it as well.

This is so transparently facile as to be ludicrous.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Love your haiku, hate your logic. Just because some loonies on the right want to demonise moderate Islam (Bolt et al); it does not follow that the Left should patronise (deliberate) a classic fascism just because a &#8216;good ol&#8217; boy&#8217; happens to oppose it as well.</p>
<p>This is so transparently facile as to be ludicrous.</p>
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		<title>By: Mindy</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/08/30/islam-feminism-modernity-australia/#comment-24563</link>
		<dc:creator>Mindy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Sep 2005 23:40:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/08/30/islam-feminism-modernity-australia/#comment-24563</guid>
		<description>The right's tendency to treat all sects of Islam as the same is what makes us ignore such silly comments. Sharia law and Islam are not one and the same. Maybe if the right actually started engaging in constructive argument rather than the old Islam = evil crap we might get somewhere.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The right&#8217;s tendency to treat all sects of Islam as the same is what makes us ignore such silly comments. Sharia law and Islam are not one and the same. Maybe if the right actually started engaging in constructive argument rather than the old Islam = evil crap we might get somewhere.</p>
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		<title>By: Sisyphus</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/08/30/islam-feminism-modernity-australia/#comment-24560</link>
		<dc:creator>Sisyphus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Sep 2005 23:30:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/08/30/islam-feminism-modernity-australia/#comment-24560</guid>
		<description>It is difficult to ignore EP's post re women in Iran, even if other issues of hijab in the west are much more complex. I really don't understand the backpeddling from much of the Left on this issue.

The removal of western influence from the Middle East, as some western anti-imperialists and of course radical Islam requests, would be extremely unlikely to result in any progressive force for the emancipation of women -- or gays and 'infidels' for that matter -- under Islam.

Human rights under radical Islam is much better elucidated by Hitchens, Rushdie, Paul Berman, Mehdi Mozaffari, even Naipul and others than by me. However, this is a classic fascism and deserves to be opposed vigorously -- irrespective of the origins.

That much of the Left fail to do so is an intellectual malignancy akin to kuru that I am bound to suspect is because of their willingness to eat each others' brains.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is difficult to ignore EP&#8217;s post re women in Iran, even if other issues of hijab in the west are much more complex. I really don&#8217;t understand the backpeddling from much of the Left on this issue.</p>
<p>The removal of western influence from the Middle East, as some western anti-imperialists and of course radical Islam requests, would be extremely unlikely to result in any progressive force for the emancipation of women &#8212; or gays and &#8216;infidels&#8217; for that matter &#8212; under Islam.</p>
<p>Human rights under radical Islam is much better elucidated by Hitchens, Rushdie, Paul Berman, Mehdi Mozaffari, even Naipul and others than by me. However, this is a classic fascism and deserves to be opposed vigorously &#8212; irrespective of the origins.</p>
<p>That much of the Left fail to do so is an intellectual malignancy akin to kuru that I am bound to suspect is because of their willingness to eat each others&#8217; brains.</p>
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		<title>By: Evil Pundit</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/08/30/islam-feminism-modernity-australia/#comment-24431</link>
		<dc:creator>Evil Pundit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Sep 2005 07:36:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/08/30/islam-feminism-modernity-australia/#comment-24431</guid>
		<description>It's good to see that &lt;a href="http://www.iranfocus.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=3613" rel="nofollow"&gt;Iranian women are free to wear the veil without hindrance&lt;/a&gt;.

&lt;blockquote&gt;Tehran, Iran, Sep. 06 --- Women who violate Iran‚Äôs strict Islamic dress code will be flogged immediately, prosecutor‚Äôs offices in provincial centres announced on Tuesday.

In the central Iranian city of Shahin-Shahr, the prosecutor‚Äôs office posted huge notices on billboards and shop windows warning women that dress code violators will appear before an Islamic judge immediately after arrest to receive a sentence, usually 100 lashes in public. The prosecutor will be demanding maximum penalties, the notice warned.

"Individuals whose state of attire and make-up is against religious laws in public will be prosecuted without having to first wait in a queue and will be sentenced to flogging and fines", the statement said.

"Scarves which do not cover the hair and neck", "tight overcoats or coats that which finish above the knees and whose sleeves cover to a point higher than the wrist", "tight trousers which do not cover the calf of the leg", and "women‚Äôs make-up" are all forbidden, according to the statement, which added that failure to adhere to the dress code would be dealt with accordingly.

Women whose scarves do not properly cover up their hair will face between 10 days to 10 months in prison, the statement added.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

This is a triumph for Islamic feminism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s good to see that <a href="http://www.iranfocus.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=3613" rel="nofollow">Iranian women are free to wear the veil without hindrance</a>.</p>
<blockquote><p>Tehran, Iran, Sep. 06 &#8212; Women who violate Iran‚Äôs strict Islamic dress code will be flogged immediately, prosecutor‚Äôs offices in provincial centres announced on Tuesday.</p>
<p>In the central Iranian city of Shahin-Shahr, the prosecutor‚Äôs office posted huge notices on billboards and shop windows warning women that dress code violators will appear before an Islamic judge immediately after arrest to receive a sentence, usually 100 lashes in public. The prosecutor will be demanding maximum penalties, the notice warned.</p>
<p>&#8220;Individuals whose state of attire and make-up is against religious laws in public will be prosecuted without having to first wait in a queue and will be sentenced to flogging and fines&#8221;, the statement said.</p>
<p>&#8220;Scarves which do not cover the hair and neck&#8221;, &#8220;tight overcoats or coats that which finish above the knees and whose sleeves cover to a point higher than the wrist&#8221;, &#8220;tight trousers which do not cover the calf of the leg&#8221;, and &#8220;women‚Äôs make-up&#8221; are all forbidden, according to the statement, which added that failure to adhere to the dress code would be dealt with accordingly.</p>
<p>Women whose scarves do not properly cover up their hair will face between 10 days to 10 months in prison, the statement added.</p></blockquote>
<p>This is a triumph for Islamic feminism.</p>
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		<title>By: Gary</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/08/30/islam-feminism-modernity-australia/#comment-23269</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Sep 2005 06:25:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/08/30/islam-feminism-modernity-australia/#comment-23269</guid>
		<description>"I recall a driving trip from Saudi Arabia to Bahrain."--David Heidelberg

Was this before or after you renounce you American citizenship and converted to Islam.?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I recall a driving trip from Saudi Arabia to Bahrain.&#8221;&#8211;David Heidelberg</p>
<p>Was this before or after you renounce you American citizenship and converted to Islam.?</p>
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		<title>By: Rob</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/08/30/islam-feminism-modernity-australia/#comment-22957</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Aug 2005 07:45:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/08/30/islam-feminism-modernity-australia/#comment-22957</guid>
		<description>I guess my point, Evil, is that Asian Islam doesn't seem to fight its battles in the west, whatever it might do at home. The Netherland has a substantial Indonesian population, stemming from its colonial rule. But the man who killed Theo van Gogh was of Moroccan descent.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess my point, Evil, is that Asian Islam doesn&#8217;t seem to fight its battles in the west, whatever it might do at home. The Netherland has a substantial Indonesian population, stemming from its colonial rule. But the man who killed Theo van Gogh was of Moroccan descent.</p>
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		<title>By: Evil Pundit</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/08/30/islam-feminism-modernity-australia/#comment-22954</link>
		<dc:creator>Evil Pundit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Aug 2005 07:38:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/08/30/islam-feminism-modernity-australia/#comment-22954</guid>
		<description>There's a lot of church-burning in Indonesia, as well as Islamic separatist violence in Aceh. Then there's the Islamist insurgency in the Philippines, and Islamic murder of Buddhists in Thailand.

Islamic murder of Christian tribes in the Sudan, Islamic shari'a law in Nigeria, Islamic insurgency in Russia and China, Islamic terrorism in London, New York and Madrid.

I think the common factor isn't geography, but something else. I just can't quite put my finger on it ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s a lot of church-burning in Indonesia, as well as Islamic separatist violence in Aceh. Then there&#8217;s the Islamist insurgency in the Philippines, and Islamic murder of Buddhists in Thailand.</p>
<p>Islamic murder of Christian tribes in the Sudan, Islamic shari&#8217;a law in Nigeria, Islamic insurgency in Russia and China, Islamic terrorism in London, New York and Madrid.</p>
<p>I think the common factor isn&#8217;t geography, but something else. I just can&#8217;t quite put my finger on it &#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Rob</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/08/30/islam-feminism-modernity-australia/#comment-22951</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Aug 2005 07:31:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/08/30/islam-feminism-modernity-australia/#comment-22951</guid>
		<description>It showed up OK in preview. Dunno why this always happens to me.

Talking of the story EP linked to - is there merit in the idea that it is not Islam as such that is the problem, but rather the geographical origin of some of its adherents? There is an argument I've read that it's not coincidental that the most dedicated terrorists come from the desert states - echoing the old marauding tribesman, fiercely individual warrior caste ethic of the medieval desert kingdoms. Conversely, we do not have such a problem with Islam as practised in Asia, the argument being that these are communal cultures, economically based on collaborative farming.

Of course, the problem with this line is that it could lead to blaming a race (Arabs) rather than a religion (Islam). Dangerous waters.

However, Pakistan would seem to play against that argument, though. And Jemaah Islamiyeh is rife across the Indonesian archipelago and Malaysia.

Just wonderin'...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It showed up OK in preview. Dunno why this always happens to me.</p>
<p>Talking of the story EP linked to - is there merit in the idea that it is not Islam as such that is the problem, but rather the geographical origin of some of its adherents? There is an argument I&#8217;ve read that it&#8217;s not coincidental that the most dedicated terrorists come from the desert states - echoing the old marauding tribesman, fiercely individual warrior caste ethic of the medieval desert kingdoms. Conversely, we do not have such a problem with Islam as practised in Asia, the argument being that these are communal cultures, economically based on collaborative farming.</p>
<p>Of course, the problem with this line is that it could lead to blaming a race (Arabs) rather than a religion (Islam). Dangerous waters.</p>
<p>However, Pakistan would seem to play against that argument, though. And Jemaah Islamiyeh is rife across the Indonesian archipelago and Malaysia.</p>
<p>Just wonderin&#8217;&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/08/30/islam-feminism-modernity-australia/#comment-22948</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Aug 2005 07:23:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/08/30/islam-feminism-modernity-australia/#comment-22948</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href="http://reasonsyouwillhateme.blogspot.com/2005/08/appropriate-worship-time-with-our-lady.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;MsFits&lt;/a&gt; on this topic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://reasonsyouwillhateme.blogspot.com/2005/08/appropriate-worship-time-with-our-lady.html" rel="nofollow">MsFits</a> on this topic.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/08/30/islam-feminism-modernity-australia/#comment-22938</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Aug 2005 07:10:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/08/30/islam-feminism-modernity-australia/#comment-22938</guid>
		<description>Your link's broken, Rob.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your link&#8217;s broken, Rob.</p>
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		<title>By: Rob</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/08/30/islam-feminism-modernity-australia/#comment-22937</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Aug 2005 07:10:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/08/30/islam-feminism-modernity-australia/#comment-22937</guid>
		<description>.....&lt;a href="http://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/article_details.php?id=6992" rel="nofollow"&gt;Hassan Butt&lt;/a&gt;....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230;..<a href="http://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/article_details.php?id=6992" rel="nofollow">Hassan Butt</a>&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Evil Pundit</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/08/30/islam-feminism-modernity-australia/#comment-22934</link>
		<dc:creator>Evil Pundit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Aug 2005 07:05:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/08/30/islam-feminism-modernity-australia/#comment-22934</guid>
		<description>There is extreme, uncompromisng Islam in Australia as well. Even the Fairfax press is starting to &lt;a href="http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/australiahating-muslims-unchecked-says-teacher/2005/08/30/1125302570133.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;dimly glimpse the reality&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is extreme, uncompromisng Islam in Australia as well. Even the Fairfax press is starting to <a href="http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/australiahating-muslims-unchecked-says-teacher/2005/08/30/1125302570133.html" rel="nofollow">dimly glimpse the reality</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Rob</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/08/30/islam-feminism-modernity-australia/#comment-22933</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Aug 2005 06:57:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/08/30/islam-feminism-modernity-australia/#comment-22933</guid>
		<description>EP is right about the underlying ideology being the real enemy - extreme, uncompromising Islamism as exemplified by &lt;a&gt; Hassan Butt&lt;/a&gt;, a scary guy from Manchester.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>EP is right about the underlying ideology being the real enemy - extreme, uncompromising Islamism as exemplified by <a> Hassan Butt</a>, a scary guy from Manchester.</p>
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		<title>By: Art Vandelay</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/08/30/islam-feminism-modernity-australia/#comment-22928</link>
		<dc:creator>Art Vandelay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Aug 2005 06:37:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/08/30/islam-feminism-modernity-australia/#comment-22928</guid>
		<description>Ah, now we're getting somewhere. It's &lt;i&gt;islam&lt;/i&gt; you don't like. How surprising. 

So if the burqa is not a symbol of Islam, or your opinion on Islam is incorrect, then your proposed burqa ban is similarly bunkum?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah, now we&#8217;re getting somewhere. It&#8217;s <i>islam</i> you don&#8217;t like. How surprising. </p>
<p>So if the burqa is not a symbol of Islam, or your opinion on Islam is incorrect, then your proposed burqa ban is similarly bunkum?</p>
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		<title>By: Evil Pundit</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/08/30/islam-feminism-modernity-australia/#comment-22925</link>
		<dc:creator>Evil Pundit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Aug 2005 06:34:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/08/30/islam-feminism-modernity-australia/#comment-22925</guid>
		<description>Ooh, look, &lt;a href="http://bunyip.blogspot.com/2005_08_01_bunyip_archive.html#112538993703932339" rel="nofollow"&gt;hypocrisy&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ooh, look, <a href="http://bunyip.blogspot.com/2005_08_01_bunyip_archive.html#112538993703932339" rel="nofollow">hypocrisy</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Evil Pundit</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/08/30/islam-feminism-modernity-australia/#comment-22919</link>
		<dc:creator>Evil Pundit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Aug 2005 06:26:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/08/30/islam-feminism-modernity-australia/#comment-22919</guid>
		<description>Burqas are part of a fundamentalist Islamic culture that is inherently hostile to democratic society.

The real target of a ban is not the burqa but the politico-religious ideology of which it is both a symbol and a manifestation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Burqas are part of a fundamentalist Islamic culture that is inherently hostile to democratic society.</p>
<p>The real target of a ban is not the burqa but the politico-religious ideology of which it is both a symbol and a manifestation.</p>
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		<title>By: Art Vandelay</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/08/30/islam-feminism-modernity-australia/#comment-22916</link>
		<dc:creator>Art Vandelay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Aug 2005 06:18:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/08/30/islam-feminism-modernity-australia/#comment-22916</guid>
		<description>EP, I notice you still haven't answered my question. Why ban burqas, or any other garment? The "alienation" and "concealment of criminal activities" rationales you've relied upon so far have been shown to be rubbish. What else do you have?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>EP, I notice you still haven&#8217;t answered my question. Why ban burqas, or any other garment? The &#8220;alienation&#8221; and &#8220;concealment of criminal activities&#8221; rationales you&#8217;ve relied upon so far have been shown to be rubbish. What else do you have?</p>
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		<title>By: liam hogan</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/08/30/islam-feminism-modernity-australia/#comment-22915</link>
		<dc:creator>liam hogan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Aug 2005 06:15:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2005/08/30/islam-feminism-modernity-australia/#comment-22915</guid>
		<description>Public nudity is outlawed because it is likely to cause a public nuisance or give offence. How so with religious clothing?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Public nudity is outlawed because it is likely to cause a public nuisance or give offence. How so with religious clothing?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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