The Australian carried this story in the opinion section today (hat tip, my buddy JK)
Jyllands Posten, the most liberal (ie. pro-business, anti-socialist) daily broadsheet, ran twelve cartoons of the prophet mohammed.
A few clarifications and translations:
*Cartoon 3:
‘On the blackboard it says in Persian with Arabic letters that ‘Jyllands-Posten’s journalists are a bunch of reactionary provocateurs.’
(from here.) The boy’s soccer shirt reads ‘the future’ and it would read something like ‘Mohammed from year 7 at Bankstown High’, were it drawn in Sydney.
*Cartoon 7: “Easy lads, it’s just a drawing by an infidel Southern Jutlander”
*Cartoon 9: This one rhymes in Danish, but unfortunately translates to something like:
Prophet!
Off his rocker [’kuk’ is the sound of a cuckoo, ‘knald’ is crazy “har du knald?” = “are you insane?”]
Who keeps women subjugated
Naturally, carrying the story in ‘Cut & Paste’ Opinion section of The Australian means that they don’t need to ‘balance’ any commentary on these cartoons. So who gets to speak on behalf, not just of all Danish Muslims, but all Muslims in the world? You guessed it - a Danish version of Sheik Omran with views of Faiz Mohamad on rape - who came out with this:
‘This type of democracy is worthless for Muslims,’ Imam Raed Hlayhel wrote in a statement. ‘Muslims will never accept this kind of humiliation. The article has insulted every Muslim in the world. We demand an apology!’
The post continues:
Flemming Rose, cultural editor at the newspaper, denied that the purpose had been to provoke Muslims. It was simply a reaction to the rising number of situations where artists and writers censured themselves out of fear of radical Islamists, he said.
The Prime Minister, Anders Fogh Rasmussen, has handled the affair very diplomatically:
‘Freedom of expression has wide boundaries, and the Danish government has no means to influence the press,’ said Rasmussen in his reply. ‘Danish laws do forbid blasphemous statements or discriminating acts, and the offended party can bring such statements or acts before the court.’
In fact, Fogh encouraged such action:
‘We distance ourselves from these statements and publications, and we request that you prosecute those responsible as a way to create religious harmony, better integration, and improve Denmark’s relations with the Muslim world in general.’
A Danish friend of mine sums it up quite nicely: “The whole incident could mean that when you intentionally try to provoke people by doing something that is forbidden by their religion with no other agenda than to provoke people, you might succeed.”
Postscript, Monday 31 Oct: Here’s the relevant law:
He(/she) who mocks or insults any legal religious society’s teachings or methods of worship can be punished by jail for up to 4 months or by fining.
translated from this article from the end of 2004, when the Danish parliament seemed to have majority support to remove the passage. Back then, Fogh expressed some qualified support for such a move, but stated, “I don’t really see any need to remove it … It shows that, in Denmark, you can say pretty much anything you want - also regarding religious subject matter.” Important to keep in mind when Fogh ‘referred people to the courts.’ (nb. Danish National broadcaster DR was threated with legal action after broadcasting sections of Theo van Gogh’s film Submission in the wake of his murder.)
The law was introduced in 1866. Combined with the racism paragraph introduced in 1939 the law is supposed contain anti-semitism, ‘islamophobia’, and anti-catholicism, according to one Constitutional Law expert. It would seem that pogroms and displacements of ethnic and religious communities cast a much longer and darker shadow in that part of the world than Australia. As Jeff Alexander has shown, traumas are sociological phenomena which reflect the history and power structures of elite institutions. They are not a direct reflection of particular events.
Some interesting points from this wikipedia article on the UK blasphemy laws: The last person in Britain to be sent to prison for blasphemy was John William Gott in 1921. The last prosecution took place in 1977 for a reading of The Love That Dares To Speak Its Name. In 2002, a repeat reading of that poem did not result in any prosecutions. Peter Tatchell subsequently declared the law to be dead.
Do you believe Andre Serrano should be prosecuted?
Yes or no?
And should Australia ban piggy-banks?
Do you believe Andre Serrano should be prosecuted?
Why? Do you want to start a class action?
Oh, and I left out the money quote from one of the cartoonists:
Reporters Without Borders:
The Shorter LP: Howard is Hitler for his security legislation. Oh, by the way, start arresting cartoonists. Hilarious.
Should cartoonists who offend Christians be prosecuted also?
Or only cartoonists who offend Muslims?
Shades of Slaman Rushdie and The Satanic Verses.
btw, this is the only comments thread I can get into at the moment. Probably my lousy old dial-up, but is anyone else having this problem?
C.L. actually has a point.
Secular forces across the West have fought for hundreds of years for the right to take the piss out of Christianity, so to speak, and I’m not going to give up the right to take the piss out of any other religion.
Clearly, a very significant fraction of the Danish Islamic community don’t accept this point and will happily sacrifice free speech to gain legal protection from their deity of choice being insulted (not threatened, just insulted). If a significant fraction of the Australian Islamic community (or any other religious community, for that matter) feels the same way, I have a big problem with that group.
Let’s not forget Theo van Gogh, the Dutch filmmaker who was murdered for criticising Islamic oppression of women.
Rob, I have trouble getting into the comments too. I think the web server is not very good.
The Shorter LP: Howard is Hitler for his security legislation. Oh, by the way, start arresting cartoonists. Hilarious
Is that the best straw man you’ve got CL?? Where did I mention Australia? Who said anything about arresting? This is about just political representation in a democratic society. The offense taken by the Danish Islamic community against what I read as some fairly cheap slurs should be settled within the judicial bounds of that fine country using whatever legal avenues are availble. Whether they’re successful or not is something else entirely. Alternatively, if they want to hit back using equally unhelpful, divisive means, they should be aware of the consequences.
Where did I say that the cartoonists deserve to be prosecuted? In principle, I don’t support that; but let’s not pretend that newspapers put constructive solutions over political expediency.
Rob, you’re not the only one. I’ve been getting errors for the past few days.
I know that waring the English flag (the Cross of St George) is now deemed to be a racist act in the UK, but is it true that piggy banks have been banned for the same reason?
If so, there seems to be no end to the process of pre-emptive surrender.
But the cartoons were poking fun at the “prophet” Mohammed. It necessarily follows that anyone who supports judicial action against the cartoonists also is in favour of blasphemy laws.
Any secular Lefties around here support blasphemy laws?
CL does have a point.
Probably one that should only be made by people who support Serrano’s right to make art (or whatever you may want to call it) in any manner he pleases.
I note the distinction that Serrano claimed that he did not intend to ridicule the crucifixion scene, but rather make a statement about how Jesus was treated- and at the same time find something beautiful in the ordinary. Whereas these guys certainly made clear their purpose was to send a shot over the bows.
Personally I have a fascination with crucifixion images stemming from my catholic upbringing, and think the photo is beautiful if you don’t know how it was shot.
Look for yourself, art IS subjective:
wwwDOTuwmDOTedu/Dept/MLS/syllabi/702/702-24.html
You won’t get an answer, Steve.
It’s not a straw man at all, dk. You’re avoiding the challenge.
…should be settled within the judicial bounds of that fine country using whatever legal avenues are availble.
Bollocks. It shouldn’t even be actionable, as Reporters Without Borders argues.
Do you believe “cheap slurs” should be prosecutable in Australia also? Should Bill Leak be charged for comparable slurs? Every blogger who ran with that Virgin Mary on toast gag should be charged, yes?
Rob: Piggy banks banned. Next: Porky Pig, Miss Piggy, Goofy, Lassie, Rin Tin Tin, Inspector Rex etc. The left will be there, of course - cheering as these unclean creatures are removed from television and newspapers. If you respond with a cartoon sending up the whole thing, dk and Peter Kemp might dob you in to Interpol.
CL does have a point.
Probably one that should only be made by people who support Serrano’s right to make art (or whatever you may want to call it) in any manner he pleases.
I note the distinction that Serrano claimed that he did not intend to ridicule the crucifixion scene, but rather make a statement about how Jesus was treated- and at the same time find something beautiful in the ordinary. Whereas these guys certainly made clear their purpose was to send a shot over the bows.
Personally I have a fascination with crucifixion images stemming from my catholic upbringing, and think the photo is beautiful if you don’t know how it was shot.
Google it and take a look for yourself…
…but rather make a statement about how Jesus was treated - and at the same time find something beautiful in the ordinary.
Come off it, Armaniac. Christ was crucified - that’s a pretty powerful statement about how he was treated wouldn’t you say? As for the effect, it could have been done with any number of chemicals. His purpose was to provoke for purposes of notoriety.
…their purpose was to send a shot over the bows.
No it wasn’t.
Reporters Without Borders again:
I thought liberals loved this kind of cultural iconoclasm. Apparently not.
I think dk.au’s post misrepresents the Danish Prime Minister’s attitude by making it look as if he was endorsing the prosecution of the newspaper. In fact he was telling the complainers to put up or shut up:
As for me, I support the right of people to get paid to make cheap slurs. A bit of iconoclasm never went astray. Reporters without Borders are right to stick up for the journalists and the cartoonists. If Denmark actually has laws against ‘blasphemy’, then I’d say they’ve got some backwards law in Denmark.
On the other hand, CL and Rob, I’m not sure where you’re getting the idea that dk wants to see them prosecuted at all. I read the article as a condemnation of a cynical and tasteless ploy by a newspaper’s editors to use sectarian shit-stirring to sell papers.
Any secular Lefties around here support blasphemy laws?
The problem is that such laws exist in Denmark. If they existed in Australia, I would lobby accordingly. Iconoclasm is one of the oldest political actions in the world. What gives it meaning is not as transportable across boundaries as easily as you imply CL, and I won’t be drawn on false analogies.
The newspaper acted with full knowledge of their country’s laws. If the laws are as unjust as you suggest, I’m sure there will be enough support from the society to change them. After all, Denmark’s full of smart, switched on people and has a very active, egalitarian public sphere.
On Europe’s ongoing surrender: spelling Christ with a capital “C” officially abolished.
Same for “Joden” when referring to the Jewish religion.
No word about muslims, islam or muhammed. What a surprise.
what Liam said.
ps. CPH Post is affiliated with Jyllands Posten.
pps. I don’t have any more time to wait for the site to load today, so you’ll have to entertain each other for a while.
Evil, yes, some other blogs had a different take on the Danish PM’s attitude also.
Lower case is a sign of European surrender and decline in Western Civilisation? Perhaps we need anti-typography as well as anti-terrorism law. Or perhaps German and Dutch have simply always had different grammar rules about capitalisation of nouns?
I wonder if the ambassadors who protested about these cartoons included those from Syria, Iran and Jordan, where the most toxic vilification of the Jews is both government-sponsored, and so commonplace as to be unremarkable.
I’m only occasionally able to get into comments on LP over recent days. Both from home and work so I’m guessing its LP.
Yep, we’re aware of the problem and are working to fix it, Steve. Sorry for the inconvenience!
Ok Thanks Robert. It seemed that the RWDB’s get through fine but all the sane people were being blocked!
Very good points CL. Indeed, this brings me back to a quote from Cam Riley - “multiculturalism is the natural outgrowth of liberty”. Yet in example after example we see multiculturalism as the midwife of tyranny. Thus, Muslims and other minorities get their “anti-vilification” (blasphemy) laws, just as the European majority gets sweet payback with the next round of “anti-terrorism” laws.
People (and I mean all citizens) are going to have to realise at some point a) that they’ve been conned by all the “celebrate diversity” propaganda and, more importantly, b) that life is offensive, troubling, puzzling, and frightening, and that no amount of legislative activism (or any other method to suppress your tribal enemies) is going to change any of this. What’s become clear is that Leftists and Rightists are going to have to come to terms with the fact that the state is their mortal enemy, and anyone who thinks they can safely use the state against their enemies is living in a fool’s paradise.
Some people need more cultural sensitivity training.
It seems piggy banks are to be banned, to answer my own question.
Is this multiculturalism at work, or or a form of dhimmitude, I ask myself.
Good link Rob.
Especially pleasing to read there that:
-”Khalid Mahmoud, the Labour MP for a Birmingham seat and one of four Muslim MPs in Britain, also criticised the piggy-bank ban.”-
So we can all hold hands and celebrate the diversity that exists even among muslims =)
My what a tasteful link EP. Perhaps a warning that its X rated next time.
Rob, The banks aren’t being forced by anyone, but obviously think its a good commercial decision.
Yes, that’s quite interesting, armaniac, that even without a protest from the Muslim community - even an objection to the ban by one of its leading representatives - we still sort of pre-emptively surrender anyway just in case.
Happens every year at Christmas, too (or should that be christmas now?)
I take it all you guys don’t have unclean animals in your gravatars because it might offend muslims. Have you pre-emptively surrendered?
Nice one, Steve.
However, since Furtwangler was an active defender of Jewish musicians and composers in the face of persecution by the Nazis. he could conceivably qualify as an ‘unclean animal’ of sorts, as evidenced by the abominable stuff in the link I posted above.
You want to be careful, though, Steve. They’ll be coming for you……one day.
No need to look to Europe, right here in Victoria you may find yourself in trouble just for reading the koran aloud. Not for the content of course (culturally sensitive paradiso, our Victoria), but for your unstated intent, which our bureaucracy can magically discern by reading your mind.
“X-rated”?
What are you talking about?
Mabye it’s the culture-gap (how ironic), but the only crime I see in these cartoons is that they’re not very funny. In anycase, I think one can take a positive view here: it’s one step closer to a world where we can trade comedic religous barbs in (and hopefully with) good humour.
…and perhaps the ultimate signifier of reconcilliation will be when Muslims learn something from Jewish humour!
Bombs oi vey!
The pig story has some history. From May 1998:
Sad to reflect that at about the same time the Old Dart was commemorating the 200th anniversary of Trafalgar, a good old British symbol was being volantarily banned. What would Nelson say of the modern UK?
England expects every man to surrender his piggy bank.
Liam, the relevant grammatical rules call for the capitalisation of “Christ.” That’s why the new policy constitutes a change.
Bombs oi vey!
The pig story has some history. From May 1998:
Sad to reflect that at about the same time the Old Dart was commemorating the 200th anniversary of Trafalgar, a good old British symbol was being voluntarily banned. What would Nelson say?
England expects every man to surrender his piggy bank.
Test.
EP,
X rated, in that it has adds for sites plastered all around the video that I guess you were pointing at. Featuring, at least when I loaded it, two women not wearing well anything, and shall we say getting to know each other very well indeed.
Damn forgot to change my piggy name.
Piggy banks not allowed in the UK: I totally agree. People shouldn’t save money like greedy pigs. Instead they should donate it to Mosques so that their savings can be transferred to our great terrorist friends. All filthy pork eaters in the west must be punished. One problem, how will I tell my kid who is very much attached to his piggy bank called Osama bin Laden. I don’t want to be a pig and take away a child’s toy … What a dillema …
Luv,
Mohammed
The piggy bank issue is just a farce, a storm in a tea-cup, and most importantly a marketing exercise by banks. Where’s the condemnation of capitalism CL? I’m disappointed.
The caricatures of Muslims deeply offended by these artifacts, whose origins don’t even lie with the animals are utterly childish and offensive.
Don’t be so naive dk the piggy bank is a cornerstone institution of western civilization and the errosion of our right to bear piggy banks is sign of the corrupt decadence of the EU.
When the black helicopters come for you, don’t say you weren’t warned!
I fully agree with dk.au, capitalism is to be blamed for all of this and for anything else that has gone wrong, is going wrong or will go wrong on our planet. If there is life on other planets and anything goes wrong there, I am absolutely sure that it is also due to capitalism. I wish the UK was a communist society, without banks and other filthy capitalist institutions aimed solely at exploiting the poor and starving working class. In a ideal society, like for example, North Korea these types of injustices do not occur.
Proletarians of all countries unite …
steve
You need to be a little less sarcastic or people might think you were trolling…
Mark, you’re right, sarcasm is almost as tastless as piggy banks … Do you have any other suggestion on what people are allowed to do and what they shouldn’t do in a free society?
Should: Get a gravatar
Err, which Steve were you refering to? steve lower case was not I and I think a troll for real! I’ll have to change my login name to my full name to avoid this confusion in the future. Or perhaps I missed the sarcasm. Damn common names.
steve lower case troll steve! That’s why I put the ’s’ in lower case!
As to ed, people can do what they like in a free society within reason and without harming others, but a blog is not a free society.
Just differentiatin…
I’m sure if small s steve wants to go round to small t tim’s place, his comment will be applauded as the height of wit.
Go where you get lauded, I say!
Just advisin…
Mark: Where is Tim’s place? I would really like to go there. Any other advice on what I should do, like when is something within reason and not harming others and when something is as naughty as a piggy bank? Please share some more of your great advise …
steve
steve, here’s where you can find tim and all his wondrous works. As I’m not paid to be your financial advisor/career counsellor/life coach or whatever, I’ll charge a fee for future advice. There’s no such thing as a free lunch you know. Better go check your piggy bank.
Thank you so much Mark. Tim’s world is wondrous, all opinions seem to be acceptable there. Freedom of expression fills a simple proletarian guy, like me, with joy. I am sorry to hear that I can’t get more wonderful advice for free. Unfortunately, I already raided my piggy bank last Friday (got drunk at me local pub), so I probably won’t be able to pay your fees. However, I do think you should give me your advice for free. Mark, it is the duty of great intellectuals like you to teach simple guys like me. You have to do this, for society and most of all for Tim’s place. Almost forgot, I really enjoyed you’re little joke about the small t for tim’s place, excellent pun …
Wait til you meet Andrea Harris, steve!
As to great intellectuals, it’s well known that there’s only one great intellectual and dear leader in the blogosphere, the Divine Professor of Law at Deakin. Perhaps Mirko doubles as agony aunt when not writing op/eds?
Just read some Andrea Harris stories, very nice. Thanks again, for the advice Mark, you are opening a great new world for me. I am filled with joy. Also, read the Mirko story. I fully agree with him: Men, women and piggy banks have the right to wear headscarfs when they want and where they want. If we ban the headscarf, the next move may be a ban on the piggy bank or even worse a banning of Tim’s place …
Glad we’re on the same wavelength regarding free speech and freedom of expression, steve.
Me to Mark, I’ll see you at Tim’s place, where good taste is the norm.
You know, steve, tim comes round here occasionally too.
Well Mark, Tim probably also needs the teachings of a great mind …
Tim is a great sub-editor, steve.