John Howard recently weighed in to a Queensland perennial by arguing that those of us in SE Queensland should have the option of daylight saving. I want to write against it – from a Brisbane perspective. So I’m not going to go into arguments about kiddies in the bush catching the school bus before daylight, links with our country cousins, the influence of evil Southerners moving to Quinceland and subverting our godfearing way of life, and so on.
But first, thanks to C.L. for this lovely quote from a great Canadian writer, Robertson Davies:
I don’t really care how time is reckoned so long as there is some agreement about it, but I object to being told that I am saving daylight when my reason tells me that I am doing nothing of the kind. I even object to the implication that I am wasting something valuable if I stay in bed after the sun has risen.
As an admirer of moonlight I resent the bossy insistence of those who want to reduce my time for enjoying it.
At the back of the Daylight Saving scheme I detect the bony, blue-fingered hand of Puritanism, eager to push people into bed earlier, and get them up earlier, to make them healthy, wealthy and wise in spite of themselves.
Elsewhere: John Quiggin disagrees.
I’m quite prepared to concede that daylight saving might be great for other cities. But I think the Brisbane climate really makes it quite counterproductive. I can remember a few years ago when some friends visited from Melbourne during a glorious Brisbane winter, they were quite surprised that the temperature dropped so quickly from beautiful clear dry early 20s to quite cold as soon as the sun started to go down. In winter, it can go down by what seems like about 10 degrees in an hour. It’s not so stark in summer, but here’s some news.
It gets extremely hot in Brisbane in summer, and the heat is made a thousand times worse for about three months by extreme cloying humidity. And in Brisbane, in contrast to some other cities I’ve visited, it heats up very quickly – it can be 30 already when you’re waiting for the bus at 8am on a hot day, and cools down quickly too. So just as I don’t particularly enjoy walking home in the middle of winter at 5.30pm when it’s already dark, I’d rather not leave work when it’s still really hot and unpleasant. One of the nice developments of the last decade and a half in Vegas is footpath dining and drinking, and great public spaces like Southbank, the walk from there to Kangaroo Point, and the River walk beneath the Story bridge. [We don't have beaches, or even too many public pools so that or going home is the end of a work day.]
Much much nicer to enjoy those good things when the temperature’s started to drop rather than in the sweltery 4pm of the saved day.
And even before we had all those things in our city whose face has shifted so much so quickly (even as its underlying character remains), you could always enjoy the February pleasures of visiting friends, sitting on the deck of a Queenslander just as the sun’s gone down and waiting in the eery expectation of a storm, seeing it break over the mango tree and the red rooves down the hill, and then enjoying the joys of the astonishing change in the air as calm follows storm.
Less daylight, and more early evening during Brisbane summers, please.
Mark, I would contest this fallacious farrago of anti-daylight fibs …
but owing to the lateness of the hour down here…..
Ha!
Exactly so. As a great poet once said – oh, his name escapes me:
Out on the
patioverandah we sit [IN REAL TIME]And the humidity we breathe
We watch the lightning crack over cane fields
Laugh and think that this is Aust-ral-i-a
His name is Mark Callaghan, lead singer of GangGajang.
I don’t know about Queensland, but last Sunday morning was the first time in weeks I have not been woken by the sun at about 5.30am. I support Howard on beginning daylight saving earlier.
There is a pied butcherbird that sings every morning at about 4.30 am outside my window. He has a beautiful song … but turning the little bugger, and my noisy pet budgies, down for an extra hour in the morning is very welcome.
I demand daylight savings immediately. Also as part of campaign for Premier of QLD I promise to strip mine Moreton Island completely and dump the sand between Nudgee and Redcliff so that Brisbane can gain proper surf beaches.
I start work at 5.30am so daylight saving is the difference between getting up in darkness and getting up in light. For the few weeks before DS I wake and its getting light outside which leads me to immediately panic that I’ve slept through and am hours late, but its really only 4.30am. I’d much rather get up in darkness and have the light at the end of the day when I can actually use it.
OTOH my mother is a passionate opponent of the concept and barely even acknowledges its existence. When she had a shop she’d leave the wall clock set non-DS with a sign under it: REAL TIME!! A philosophical proposition others here are better placed to ponder than me.
I am in favour of you ‘toads holding out though because “Welcome to Queensland, set your clocks back one hour and 25 years” makes me laugh. I’d really hate to lose that.
Couldn’t care either way. As long as no one makes a worn-out gag involving tired cows and/or faded curtains.
I’m with Mark. I am a nocturnal creature, I hate the sun and the heat. Daylight minimisation please!
Jason likes the nightlife. He likes to bloggy.
The idea of daylight saving is to expand the quality time of the day. In Cairns, which is further west than Charleville, the quality time is in the morning before work, I’m told. So if you want to get in a round of golf you get up early in the morning. Daylight saving would make that impossible as the further north you go the less daylight you have in summer. No-one wants to play golf late in the day in Cairns.
In the year we had a daylight saving trial the increased consumption of soft drink by school kids was quite alarming, especially in the north. Also places like Mt Isa parents had to get the kids to bed soon after sunset. The sun already sets late there and inland the hottest time of the day is late afternoon.
Over the years I must say I’ve had a gutful of the piss-weak jibes from Southerners about all this, especially smart-arse pilots telling passengers to put their clocks back a century.
At the same time when I was in the public service contacting people interstate by phone was a pain during daylight saving. I’ve always favoured the notion of a South-East carve-out from Bundaberg to Stanthorpe, as recommended by a committee under Goss.
But Mark’s arguments about late afternoon quality of life are valid and somewhat persuade me to change my mind. Our deck facing west is impossible before about 5pm unless we get expensive blinds. Even then it is unligned and would be quite hot.
We have a pool and you don’t want to be in there either in the blazing heat. Especially when the water heats to over 30C as it does in January.
There was a recent poll which found city people here only 60% in favour of daylight saving. If you excluded the ‘Mexicans’ the 60% would fade to less than 50% for sure. In the country and provinces 70% are against.
whereas we in Tasmania just LOVE it and think the whole year should be moved that way!
Okay Mark, I’ll pay you that. But here in Perth I think we could use it. We’re quite far south anyway and as an office worker I really enjoy long afternoons. More time for going to the beach… And here it would mean you could get to work before it got stinking hot.
Of course, nothing but altering the rotation of the Earth could give you longer cool twilights…
You can tell summer’s coming in Qld, ’cause the Courier-Mail and the Gold Coast Bully start running front pages stories about how Qld should get daylight saving. Breakfast meetings in Sydney are terribly inconvienent for the poor luvvies, apparently.
I spent many years as a commercial cleaner and by far the worst summer was when we had the DST trial. My day job was with a guy who was dead keen for DST until we tried it. He was a distance runner and having to wait an extra hour before it was cool enough to run screwed up his entire evening. Personally, I’d prefer an extra hour of daylight in winter when, you know, it gets dark really early.
I also don’t get the argument that says “it’s unacceptable that Brisbane is in a seperate timezone to Sydney and Melbourne but it’s OK for the state capital to be in a different timezone to the rest of the state.”
Daylight savings is silly. You could easily use CS’s argument and apply it to Perth, where it gets just as hot, if not more hot, than Brisbane in summer. Twice we have voted on it, and twice we have rejected it. You silly easterners can keep it.
it fades my curtins!
CS hasn’t appeared on the thread, Nic. ??
Yes democracy can be a wonderful thing: WA says no to DS and no to longer retail trading hours – it’s nice to be on the winning side occasionally. I agree with Daryl: I want DS in winter so as to get some chance of sun. Kate, you should have been at the beach this morning – perfect at 6.00 ! Whereas in the arvo the “sea breeze” is roaring in flinging sand at you and the water is too choppy to swim – and you’re too tired to swim anyway.
The best argument against DS I’ve heard is that all the men going to work on the bus in the morning would have erections.
You need to go out later.
I realise you all like to be tucked up in bed by 8pm (Joh legacy no doubt) but try getting all European and have dinner at 9pm maybe?
Oh we do, thomasr. When I was at uni, we never used to go out til about 9pm so we could do so and avoid the heat and then sleep through most of the next day. Unfortunately, WorkChoices doesn’t include the desirable 4 hour day starting at 1pm.
“The best argument against DS I‚Äôve heard is that all the men going to work on the bus in the morning would have erections.”
wtf??
And C.L, I meant Mark, getting threads confused.
Possibly also geography, Nic, since Queenslanders are also Easterners. It’s the Southerners who worry us!
Why haven’t we gone the Jacobin path? Each day must be rationalised for the common good. There must be hours with one hundred minutes, days with ten hours, weeks with ten days, and anyone who disagrees, c’est l’enemie du peuple!
I shall now write to my Department of Weights and Measures, the counterrevolutionary swine.
Fourier-ist!
It’s a good argument. You’ve got to give the circus time to leave town when you wake up under the big top.
Ok, you againstniks! I was anti while a QLDer, owing to some weird, ill-thought out fear of having to get up earlier.
Now Im a Melbournite I love it with a passion. Quality of life skyrockets, especially if you’re a full time worker.
As you may know, my philosophy is Carpe PM (seize the afternoon!); and its suits me to a T.
Take a representative evening:
530-6 Leave work. Feels like & looks like 330pm. Every day feels like Im having the arvo off. Tops!
Home 630 SBS News. Outraged, abuse Howard on telly. Castigated for swearing in front of daughter, again. Full daylight, warm – nice. Daughter has swim in minipool.
7pm Dinner.
730 Aaaahhhhh! daughter in bed, Still a good hour hour of sunlight. Might have a walk in the pleasant twilight, bike ride even. Excellent!
You against-niks gotta be kidding me. Especially if you’ve never experienced it. I wouldnt miss it for quids. I really dont miss the “sun plummetting from sky, day wasted at work” feeling of leaving work in San Brisbador in summer.
Southern seditionist!
And to think you used to be a good Quincelander, Lefty E! Must be that fluoride they put in the water in Melbourne! A subtle form of mind control!
“You‚Äôve got to give the circus time to leave town when you wake up under the big top.”
Take a bow, Haiku Hoges. That is 24 carrots of comedy gold.
Mark, have ever lived and worked outside of QLD?
i.e. have you ever yadda yadda
Fyodor – I do not now and have never worked outside Queensland. I was born in Adelaide, and lived there for three months, but the other 37 years have been lived in Brisbane.
“I was born in Adelaide, and lived there for three months, but the other 37 years have been lived in Brisbane. ”
You poor, deprived soul.
Devil of Darlinghurst!
(sorry couldn’t think of a witty riposte!)
As the weather warms
We are removed from our beds
an hour earlier
It is stolen time,
But theft does not have to be
Always unpleasant.
Think of long, beery
afternoons, and when it cools
We get the hour back.
I thought daylight saving was silly when I lived in Brisbane, but I loved it Newcastle, Sydney and Canberra.
(And Mark, you don’t really need that many public pools. Any somewhat pissed walk from the Valley home to NF should see you pass several lovely apartment buildings with pools. I find that if someone busts you, getting out of the pool naked and shouting a cheery hallo tends to assauge their concerns.)
Mark’s situation gives rise to the question: what is the point of living in Australia if you can’t have a swim every day ?
The heat oppresses
Like a Strocchi diatribe
Flies buzz ’round your ears
I seek cool harbour
Among air conditioners
Awaiting sun’s fall
I went out with two women in New Farm and Teneriffe who both had pools in their respective apartment complexes! Sometimes problems arise as well with neighbours yelling at you after midnight, other residents wanting to have barbies, etc. But Zoe, I find the Venus arising from the water thingie works better when the untogged beauty is a female hotness rather than me…
Ergo, this lass can swim wherever she darn well pleases.
Mark, you gotta get outta that place. If it’s the last thing you ever do.
Also, as you clearly haven’t tried daylight saving, you’re not really in a position to knock it.
A link that’s spot-on for once, CL!
She can indeed, C.L.! If she comes to Vegas on Parliamentary business, I’ll happily show her around the local watering holes and bathing enclosures!
Fyodor, but as Darryl pointed out, we did have DS one year.
Ive lived in places like Tasmania for extended periods of time in the summer, and I hated it. Would hate it more in Perth where its hot.
I was in Adelaide just before the election last year. I was reliably informed that at least one minor road accident had resulted from blokes perving at spunky Kate’s electoral posters.
(That’s if you could see them through the cloud of family first posters.)
There are some people one would consider converting to socialism for if one thought an opportunity lay ahead …
She’s worth a prang.
So who’s for a skinnydip, then?
Kate certainly is the hotness.
With southern states now on DS the NT is 1.5 hours behind (and at least 50 yrs, got to beat those Queenslanders). But I can’t see DS coming to the NT anytime soon. The benefits of not having it are too great. The cricket begins at around 9am for day matches, around 11am for day nighters. The sun doesn’t set until 9.30-10pm in summer anyway, with DS we’d be the inland of the midnight sun. Anyway, the NT is just different, and proud of it.
It’s a sticky night in Brisvegas and ideal for a skinnydip!
T Rex, I sympathise about the butcherbird. When we first came here all the crows of the district used to assemble in the neighbour’s gum tree near our bedroom and make a hell of a racket before sunrise. Eventually the neighbour cut the tree down, which fixed the problem.
Naomi, the sun sets 2 hours later here in December as compared with June, so I guess the days are 4 hours longer max summer v winter.
Mindy, the reason why the sun sets so late in NT is that you have permanent DS.
The way I figure it, the longitude lines on this map represent an hour of Greenwich Mean Time (GMT). Sorry I can’t find a better one.
EST being 10 hours ahead of GMT splits Canberra and Sydney. Melbourne already has 20 mins of DS but the big anomaly is that half an hour only gets you to Warnambool. Darwin and Alice Springs are actually over an hour behind EST.
In Brisvegas we have about 15 mins of daylight dissaving. But Mt. Isa, which is on the same time, is actually about an hour behind us, being directly north of Adelaide.
Clearly there are objective factors in the whole DS equation but then we all respond subjectively. So while I understand that the Commonwealth does have a head of power (weights and measures) to determine our time, in the end it has to go on the votes. If my fellow Brisvegans don’t want to change it’s fine by me but I don’t think we need to be in sync with provincial Qld. They’ll find us if they need us.
Ladies and gentlemen, it has been an eye-opener to witness the level of contentiousness with which this issue has been debated, not only on this particular site, but throughout QLD as a whole. Daylight saving is the subject of a documentary that is currently in the preliminary stages of production, and I, along with my partners, would like to invite you to take part by giving you the opportunity to put your views forward. If you would like to contribute your views regarding daylight savings in QLD please send us an email detailing your arguments. We will also be looking for interviewees on both sides of the DS debate as part of this production. You can make a difference! Please send your opinions to: daylightsaving@optusnet.com.au – and feel free to let your friends and family know too. Thank-you for your help – [G NEWTON]
Thank god noone will listen to you, Aust-ral-i-a-ns. It is as ridicules as trying to change earth’s spinning direction.
I hate the thought of Daylight wasting as i call ithave a look at the maps on my website and see how the shadow lines is greater for North,the day is already longer in the North of Australia, Why do they need Daylight Saving/Wasting
http://members.westnet.com.au/dtilley/daynight.htm
Its about time this thread is ressurected. One thing I’ve noticed that Brisbane has a much shorter twilight in summer than even Sydney (let alone Melbourne or Hobart). Its a pity as summer twilight is my favorite time. The thing that really irks me about the lack of D.S. is the basic asynchronicity between Bne and the other eastern cities. Especially as I am a radio national listener!
Zoe: “…you don’t really need that many public pools. Any somewhat pissed walk from the Valley home to NF should see you pass several lovely apartment buildings with pools. I find that if someone busts you, getting out of the pool naked and shouting a cheery hallo tends to assauge their concerns…”
Some time ago, I used to live in a semi-crappy apartment complex in Southern California that had a pool in the courtyard. Every morning, I would get up 7-ish for an early swim, before trudging ten miles thru the blinding snow to my crappy job at the poisonous fumes factory. One morning I got up 5-ish instead of 7-ish, and wandered out to the pool.
And what, to my wondering eyes, did appear: Every single homeless person in the neighborhood was there; it seems they used it for a communal bath tub when no one was looking. They weren’t swimming, per se, so much as washing themselves and their clothes. It was then that I suddenly realized that, no, this complex doesn’t have a security entrance, hmmm.
All I can say is, thank God for chlorine.
the best way to have more time in the afternoon is to leave the clocks where they are and start work one hour earlier, that way instead of coming out of work at 5 you are out at 4 and have a loner afternoon,.
the only people that daylight saving is any good for is the ones that work 9 to 5 .
anyone that starts early now and works outside is actually disadvantaged because we cant start any earlier as there is no light to see .
we have tried daylight saving twise in qld and rejected it both times , if business wants it then they should be paying for the refurendum as they claim it costs them money , so if we have it will they pass the savings on to the public , i doubt it .
and why is there only refurendums to bring it in why dont the other states give the people a chance in the southern states to throught it out as i have spoken to people in the southern states that are very much against it .
why should business pay for it its more then them that will get stuff out of it
it stuffs more things up then people think people that work behind the seens know that for example
mail and stuff that goes intersate gets screwed up and delayed up to a day going out of qld.
also some people leave for work in the night and go home after the sun has come up it would make them so they could go to bed before the sun comes up in summer.
im one of those people.
trying to sleep when you have the sun right in your face is yeah.
ive gone from curtains to blinds and the sun still finds it way in when im trying to sleep.
also there are more jobs that are affected then the one i have.
wa is having daylight savings as of december they never have had it like qld but they wanted it and got it so in december it will just be Nt and Qld.
i was in melb durling daylight savings earlier in the year i loved it.
sun came up at 6am aest (7am aedst)
its just people that are to scared of change seem to be the ones that are agenest it trail it for a year have a vote if its a no then yeah be the end of it but saying no before doing is just people complaining.
people like that would ban gravity or air if they had the chance to.
we have had 2 refurendums in qld about this and both have said NO , it is obvious you work 9 to 5 , for people who work out side who start by daylight to move the clocks forward actually looses them an hour. because we cant start any earlier because there is no day light.
and it just goes to show that city people do not care one bit about country people and would just impose more problems on them for the sake of their own pleasure.
what real benifits are actually gained out of this apart from financil for business , because there is a lot of people in the southern states that dont want this either .
and why dont they have the chance to say no . because we only ever seem to have refurendums to introduce this not to throught it out .
CITY BUSINESS PEOPLE BETTER START THINKING WHERE THEIR FOOD COMES FROM
As far as loving daylight saving in melbourne why dont you try it in north qld . then you might see the problems with it ,
and why should our lives be inconvienced for the benefit of business in the south east corner . we do have rights to
my wife at present gets out of bed at 4 am every morning to start work at the local meat works at 5.45.
so in real time she would be getting up at 3 am and seeing as it is still light at 8 daylight saving time is going to make it hard for her and all her colegues to get some decent sleep .
Why don’t we just have it from the sunshine coast down and out as far as Toowoomba/Ipswich then that way it doesn’t bother the farm people.
Most popular food now days is imported anyway.
the part gold coast had it a few years ago that I can remember.
I work from 9pm to 5am so I know how hard it is to get sleep during summer but you get everywhere to have it or not to have it then ill be happy cause no one can complain then and nothing will be stuffed up then.
I guess we will have to see how Wa’s trial goes starts in December there.
Also times have changed since the last referendum. So I think we are due for another referendum if it’s a yes/no then everyone will just have to deal with it.
Mr beattie has said that kids would get out of school at the worse time when the uV is at its highest one local school starts at 8.30am and goes to 2.30.pm that’s worse then 3pm and why not just change the school times then so they start later and finish later.
That would fix that up.
i am in support of u, my hatred for daylight saving is increasing every year, it makes the mornings go quicker and life becomes hectic with it, john howard should keeps his nose out of isues like this, if i could could get work in queensland, i would because of daylight saving and as for them wanting to extend it. queensland looks more enviting, ask the country people about daylight saving and see their response
i believe it should not be forced upon those who do not want it
thumbs up for your effort
I personally like DLS, I like to get home from work while it’s still light enough to have a swim, go for a walk and light the barbie.
In the mornings I’m just focussed on getting shaved, dressed, dosed with caffiene and off to work. I can do this in the dark and half-asleep. It’s at the other end of the day when I’m looking to relax and unwind that I like my light, sun and cool evening breezes.
Having lived in Queensland for four years, moving there from NSW and now living in WA, I am a true believer.
It looks like we might get a trial in WA this year, but there’s no certainty.
I don’t really understand the arguments gainst DLs.
Most people today realize that money should not be the only reason to make decissions about peoples lives and way of life.
So can anyone tell me some good reasons to have dls in the first place,
if the people whos lives will be disrupted by this decission wanted to change things to suit them i am sure the south easth corner would not be happy , so why shoud we have to put up with dls just so some people can have an extra hour of light simply for pleasure.
i am not one who believes in the so called silly reasons , but i am passionate that it is so disruptive to peoples lives in the north and west of this state that it should not simply be a case of changing it so some people can have more leisure.
people living in the west of the state already live with permant time difference as the state is on one time zone when in actual fact the likes of mt isa is about half an hour behind the coast.
so to make them have dls on top actually puts them an hour and a half behind real time.
There is no real good reason for dls except for more leisure time ,
the time difference between the states is not a reason , because just because they choose to disrupt peoples lives by innoring the bush then why should qld do the same .
and any how all those few businesses need to do is start their working time one hour earlier.
and beside all that the best way to have more leisure time is to leave the clocks alone and simply start work an hour earlier in the south east , then instead of finishing work at 5 you are finished at 4 so you actually have more afternoon time .
if dls was good for everyone then it would be fine , but i have seen and lived with the inconvience of it and do not want to see it in qld
to donald .
if we then have to change the times of school then you have just defeated the idea of having dls , because you are making the finishing time later for schol teachers,
Why not just leave things as they are , i realy think that dls is a selfish thing for those who live in the south east corner , just so they can walk the dog after work
I am getting real pi##ed off about all the crap and propaganda about bloody daylight saving, seems to me all they want is to feather their own nest and satisfy their own needs based on a fantasy, all the excuses put forward don’t wash with me, like it will make it easier to do business with the Eastern States,what the hell is an extra hour going to do …nothing…not a bloody thing because we already have a 2 hour difference here in WA , What people don’t understand is the border between day and night is NOT due North/South . it is on quite an angle , like a back slash in the morning \ and a forward slash in the afternoon / so the north already has a longer day ,see maps in my web site about daylight saving link, at certain times of the year the angle is from Cape York tip to Ceduna in SA in the mornings, yesterday 30/10/06 I noticed the afternoon line was from Darwin to Melbourne, the North already has a longer day.people need to to study the facts first.
Paul: City businesspeople KNOW where their food comes from,(supermarket shelf).
As radical as daylight saving in Cairns would be, just imagine it in Mt Isa.
There are plenty of parts of Qld which informally change their clocks. Everyone else is free to do the same, or just get in & out of bed an hour earlier.
Why should the rest of the population be inconvenienced just because some people need the time zone changed because they are (too lazy?)unable to get themselves out of bed on their own?
I see that no onme has come up with any good reasons for dls yet , because there isnt any .
the whole idea is just for a few people in the south east corner to have a bit of extra LEISURE TIME .
if they want that then move north or change jobs .
or get out of bed an hour earlier .
i would sugest to people on the land to stop feeding the cities for a week and for the people in the building industry to charge more money to those who want dls to cover the extra inconvience , as they recon business will make so much extra money then they can afford to pay more for their goods
DLS would actually be bad for the enviroment because you will have more people rising in the mornings and having to use power for lights that they would not have to use normally .
and this is a fact as it would be the case for many worker and school children neccause it would be the case for my family
I love daylight saving here in Sydney. If we didn’t have it, it’d be really hot when going to work. In fact it already is in the few weeks before daylight saving comes in.
I really enjoy the way in which sydney isn’t completely muggy for three months of the year.
Paul:
“DLS would actually be bad for the enviroment because you will have more people rising in the mornings and having to use power for lights that they would not have to use normally .
and this is a fact as it would be the case for many worker and school children neccause it would be the case for my family”
Incoherent AND incorrect. 2 for the price of 1!
They won’t have to turn the lights on for one extra hour AFTER work/school, Paul. For the last time, DAYLIGHT SAVING DOES NOT MAKE THE DAY LONGER.
to FDB
dls makes the mornings darker so when people have to rise earlier to get to work and school they will have to use more power.
and so i made a mistake on one word
if you are so clever why dont you give me some good reasones for dls APART from business benig better of and some people having more leisure time,as by giving you more leisure time you destroy our best time to get things done .
the south east is willing to impose on the rest of the state the very thing it doesnt want , thats to be in a different time zone to the mexicans.
it is a very selfish act as it has no real benefits except leisure time
Cant anyone give me any good reasons for dls .
it seems all people are interested in is money .
why do all the dicissions come down to money
is that all this country come down to
Ihave made moves to get a petition goig AGAINST dls .
those who are against dls we must take action to counter act the petition in the south so we dont get rail roaded in to some thing that is bad for the north .
i will inform as many as possible when we have the petition in place.
so that we can have our say and vote .
look i dont agree with ths a single i think that it is shit and that the goverment arnt making a good desition
i am an returd an i recon adsl is teh sux
maknig moneys is bad but so is more lesure time. That’s rite cleveries.
Say no to teh twenti-fiv our day!!!!!
Paul:
You strike me of being something of a wally. What’s this nonsense about not feeding city people for a week just because of DLS? Get a grip. If it doesn’t rain soon the farmers can all stand on government (read city/business/SEQLD) funded dole q’s and we’ll get our food from somewhere else so don’t be so nasty.
Now you want reasons – these can apply to the whole state or just the SE. Your pick…
1. Despite your monetary objections doing business with Syd is a pain in the rear during summer. And no we can’t work around Syd time because we still have to service local customers. This is a problem.
2. The extra daylight after work would be nice.
3. It happens to suit me (which really cancels your argument on its own since that’s YOUR sole objection).
4. http://www.nodaylightsavingqld.com is an anti-DLS site and admits that Australia can save up to 800000 tonnes of carbon dioxide omissions per year. That’s going by their figures. Your energy argument is not correct. Not everyone gets up at 3am hillbilly.
5. We won’t have this argument every year.
6. BN is East of Syd and Mel and yet we don’t have daylight saving – we’re behind already (but then we are the smart state aren’t we?)
7. It gets light here at 4am. That’s annoying.
8. QLD rednecks are painfully resistant to change so any change is a growing experience for them.
9. Less confusion.
10. This is important – there is no argument against DLS apart from the fact that it doesn’t suit paul and other pauls. There’s always something. It used to be curtains and cows and now it’s kids coming home from school in higher UV levels. Well guess what? They’ll be going to school in lower UV levels and having their morning tea in lower UV levels and the difference at lunch will be negligible. So forget it.
And the don’t-divide-QLD argument is obsurd – we’re happy to divide the crap out of Australia.
11. Another morsel from nodaylightsavingqld.com:
“daylight saving would be of almost no benefit to the overall state�. So they admit it would be of some benefit overall.
12. That referendum was in 1992. Do you remember QLD in 92? There wasn’t much here. Just a few farmers and the odd mountain goat.
So apart from having to use an alarm clock, and this-being-QLD-don’t-y’all-know, can you give a valid reason not to? It wouldn’t come up every year if people didn’t care.
Here’s another spin on daylight saving.
Cities of the same lattitude on opposite sides of the country have different sunset times. Ie the sun sets earlier over land than over the Indian ocean.
DS is crap, if you want more sun, get up earlier. Personally Im nocturnal and having to stay up an extra hour is fuckin with me.
TO JJ
it is not woth trying to tell the people why we dont want dls because they are just top selfish to realize the difficulty it causes.
as far as being a hilbilly , well mate thats your opinion and considering that up to 80 %of people out side of the south east corner feel the same as me i guess because we are not living in the se we are all hillbillys
just look at the polls on the abc website and look at the statistics from the 1992 referendum .
from the latest polls things havent changed much .
as far as the sun coming up early then all business have to do that want to be in line with sydney is have a number of staff on flexi time , or is that to modern for you .
.
from what i see about the polls anuway only about 60 %of the city people want it
i just dont understand why city people are so selfish as to disrupt the lioves of the rest of the state so they have more time to walk the dog
.
thats just the sort of comment that we have come to expect of city people,
Yes Yes Yes to DLS how about doubble DLS like we had in the UK 1939 – 1945 then we would get more done around the house and garden, but if you are lazy you can still watch that crap on TV,
and if you go on holiday do you not change your clocks to suit them?
JJ:
I am the author of the anti-daylight saving website that you linked to in your post of 14 December. I was intrigued to note your claim that my website ‘admits that Australia can save up to 800000 tonnes of carbon dioxide omissions per year’. I’m fascinated to know where my website either makes this claim or gives any figures from which this outcome could be calculated.
On the contrary, my website adamantly maintains that the pitiful (but overblown) amount of research that exists on the relationship between DLS and energy saving is hampered by too many limitations to be of any real value. These include:
• dubious methodology that relies far too much on arbitrary mathematical calculations rather than facts
• too much reliance on an urban-centric ‘progress for progress sake’ agenda, leading to biased interpretations
• temperate-zone settings that are of little to no relevance to Australia’s tropical/sub-tropical conditions and seasonal daylight patterns
• infinitesimal outcomes (often amounting to annual energy ’savings’ of less than one per cent of one per cent!!) that are too easily compromised by life’s many variables
• an almost total lack of DLS research within Australia, causing us to rely almost exclusively on overseas data.
This hypothetical â€800,000-tonne’ carbon dioxide saving would be far better (and less hypocritically) achieved if Australia were to sign the Kyoto Agreement and lift its game on renewable-energy research and development.
Wonder how the descendants of the Gubi Gubi people feel about daylight saving? The former custodians of an area of south-east Queensland that has endured a rolling chorus line of white shoes tap dancing,indeed, Balanda boots stomping opon their sacred ground, could contribute a great deal to this debate.
After 40,000 years in the vicinity, local knowledge could come in quite handy in “achieving optimal outcomes going forward on this key government initiative”.
I live in melb.and wish we did’t have to have dst.. I still don’t know whats wrong with seting an alarm clock 1AH. or so early in the summer. Allso lots of media & others want 1/2 dst! They refuse to except the fact that as well as making sunrise&sunset 1AH. later time, daylight saving time allso moves “noon”,”midday”&”midnight” from 12 o’clock to 1 o’clock. “Noon”,”midday”&”midnight” are when the sun is at it’s highest or loest, & 1/2 way betwen sunset&sunrise-NOT 12 o’clock D.S.T.-(1 o’clock)! Lots of media etc. still say “12 noon”,”12 midday”&”12 midnight”d.s.t.&”arfter noon”befor noon,etc.-this is false,&most anoying, & it’s rampent! To say it’s “noon”,”midday”or”midnight”at 12 o’clock d.s.t. is like saying it’s “dawn”,”sunrise”or”sunset”1 AH. befor the sun comes up or goes down! D.S.T. moves “midday”/”midnight” like “sunrise”/”sunset”! They can change time. but can’t change the sun and “noon”,”midday”&”midnight” relates to the sun not the clock! They can’t have it both ways! yours ken.
I recently moved from western NSW to Brisbane. I was sick of the cold weather and having to be up an hour early, during daylight robbery and then the dragged out afternoons. The third biggest attraction to this state, after the climate and the people is the fact that we don’t have daylight robbery and I for one will allways be opposed to it. I sincerly hope that Queensland never follows the southern states. Incidently I not the only one from the south who thinks like me, only that they put up with it as they were NEVER given a CHOICE. A bunch of yuppies decided that it would be nice to sleep later and party earlier and the rest of us have had to suffer for it ever since. Why can’t bussiness in Qld ajust there opening and shutting times instead of changing the clocks. How any body can say that dlst is of any benifit to anyone is beyond me.
Back into Qld again and seems not a thing has changed except the Premier, All the grubby little D/S worms are emerging from thier holes and starting to scream at the Goverments again about D/S, Now we have some clown on the Gold Coast that wants to go it alone in his area, all that does is shift the problem “A little Further North” ….thanks to Graeme Conners for that little pun.
I see ex Premier Beattie mentioned Skin Cancer , I don’t really think that anything will change that , People will still have the car A/C on D/S or not , this idea of Daylight Saving is one great myth from the war years, it saves nothing but the pride of the advocate, the determined pain in the butt public nuisance,
can i please have some info, i’m doing a debate at school but could get much info in the internet i’m against DS.
Ned,
Go to http://www.parliament.wa.gov.au
and choose Hansard –> Search
Type in to the search box: daylight saving bill and second reading
(you have to put the ‘and’ in)
From the drop-down box for Member, choose: All Members
Hit Search
When the results list comes up, scroll down to the bottom and start with the Matt Birney speech (pro) and then for the con argument, choose some country MPs like Barry House or Murray Criddle
Interestingly (or not) for about 1/3 of the DST period in Melbourne, solar noon is closer to 1300 AEST than it is to 1200 AEST, what with the longitude and the equation of time. In any case since the time of solar noon changes from day to day relative to any regular clock, it makes it impractical to fix the times of this event.
I was about to make that same point, Martin
I AM COMPLETELY AGAINST DAYLIGHT SAVINGS BEING BROUGHT INTO QLD!! LEAVE QLD ALONE AND LEAVE IT AS IT IS THANKS. IT’S NOTHING BUT A WASTE OF TIME AND IT’S QUITE POINTLESS!!
“LEAVE QLD ALONE AND LEAVE IT AS IT IS THANKS. IT’S NOTHING BUT A WASTE OF TIME AND IT’S QUITE POINTLESS!!”
Bit unkind to Queensland there Cassandra.
Its too hot for daylight saving in Queensland. Years ago we had it and it was cool in the morning, but the school kids were coming home in the boiling heat. Maybe it should go back two hours!! We don’t have the daylight here to play with. Down South they do.
Ahh, ye olde argument again.
WA’s having the third and last year of a DS trial at the moment. (It’s three years as punishment for voting ‘no’ after one-year trials the first three times.) First two years, I hated it – Perth late afternoons are all about the blazing hot sun and NE’ly winds blowing off the desert, so putting the clocks forward means we have to wait an hour for the W’ly sea breeze and sunset – over 40C after 8pm isn’t cool. I don’t understand the argument that says we’re ‘being dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st century’ (yes, I’ve heard that exact phrase more than once)… in most parts of Perth, on Mon-Wed or Fri you can stand in the empty car park of a suburban shopping centre that shut two hours before sunset, and watch the heat radiate off the bitumen. 21st century my arse. What if I wanted to have fun after dark? On Sunday nights even the pub shuts less than two hours after sunset (10pm).
Last year, though, I was in Melbourne for a month in January. It actually works there – the weather’s not so reliably hot, so being outside at 8pm is actually possible. Folk over there (and here) need to realise Perth is not Melbourne / Sydney. If Brisbane’s humid in the summer, I guess the same thing works there.
I’m not sure it’ll even go to a fourth referendum this time… the Nationals don’t like it, and they’ve got the balance of power in parliament. Matt Birney was one of the main champions of DS – he was the member for Kalgoorlie, in the east of the state where it makes a bit more sense, but he’s not around any more.
“Bit unkind to Queensland there Cassandra.”
But Cassandra’s use of capital letters indicates that she is quite clear about this, FDB
Agree with Cassandra about daylight saving but not about Queensland (a great place to live blah blah blah).
Cassandra – Could you please clarify your position on DLS? I think your comment was a little ambiguous.
.
I think Daylight Saving is terrible. It fades the cows and the curtains don’t give milk anymore. And people stay up until 10 o’clock and do rude things.
Bit unkind to Queensland there Cassandra.
.
Yes. Harsh but face facts. She’s right.
Two things here. You write “on the deck of a Queenslander”. Is that a boat? Please, it’s, on the “verandah” of a Queenslander
Secondly, daylight saving is not needed in Queensland, it’s a waste of electricity. Research carried out in WA says electricity consumption increased there because air conditioners needed to be on for an extra hour in the evening because of higher temperatures. Case dismissed! Stop flogging a dead horse.
If I
Could save daylight
In a bottle,
Then the one thing
That I’d like to do,
Is to save every ray
Til the Hotel Del passes away,
Just to sun-tan with youuuu…
Good grief, even Jim Croce is my Leonard Cohen…
I have lived in Qld all my life and can say with no doubt that most Queenslanders are retarded, myself included.
Oh, don’t start that silly State-stereotypes nonsense please! 48% of Victorians believe that 65% of NSWelshmen would move to Qld in a trice, if it weren’t for the fact that 17% of South Australians have at least one Tasmanian relative on their cousin’s side.
And as many as 18% of Australian idiots do NOT live in Qld. 45% responded “don’t know”.
70% of self-styled metrosexual men think the term denotes their willingness to fornicate with underground rail tunnels. And 29% of them are willing to try.
Well, I reckon 49% of Victorians have below average intelligence. So there!
This is undoubtedly true, but remember that the 49% result is working off a very low base. And ‘intelligence’ is a vexed parameter. In Victoria they ask questions about debentures, pastoral properties and 19th Century political history.
In Qld they ask about Big Pineapples, white shoe financiers, lychee futures and Sir Terrence. The State results are therefore hardly comparable.
In Tassie, the interviewer says “IQ” and the subject thinks they’re being told the researcher likes them. Or they rattle off a haiku.
I HATE DAYLIGHT SAVING! Daylight saving will not work in QLD. The state is way too big. You can’t go to bed early because it is nine o’clock at night and the sun is still out and burning your eyes. It disrupts your sleeping patterns. If they were going to have daylight saving at all (which they shouldn’t) they should have it in winter so that people that go to work early in the morning can drive to work in the sun. If you have daylight saving in winter then people can go home and do something in the afternoon. This helps alot with farmers. If they are farmers that also work during the day they don’t get enough time to do their farm work. people say they could just hire someone to help out, well I got a news flash for those people, MONEY DOESN”T GROW ON TREES! If they had it in winter then they would be able to do something. NO ONE THINKS OF THE FARMERS!!!!!!!
103 – curtains or even a sleeping mask, perhaps?
Vote YES tmorrow in WA, please.
I’m a No here. I like to have the extra hour of daylight in the morning, not so I can go jogging (who does that? weirdos…), but so I can sleep through it – I’m a night person. Refer to 93 for more information.
“MONEY DOESN”T GROW ON TREES!”
Really? I thought that was farming’s entire premise.
What exactly are we saving all this daylight for? A rainy day?
I’ve created a new thread to allow the snark a new beginning.