As a rape survivor who used the court system to the best of my ability at the time, I’m absolutely lost for words at easily people try to make such a complex issue so black and white so as to not offend - exactly who they’re trying to pussyfoot around, I’m not sure — rape is violent and it’s something you live with for the rest of your life. I can see why some people are so terrified to come forward about being raped, and why wrongfully accused men (and women?) end up losing everything they’ve ever worked for because of someone else.

All I know is that I am not without fault in my rape, and I am not without fault in my life, but when I said no I meant NO.

I don’t really know what the point of this comment is, except to say that I am so disappointed in us as human beings. Of course, this is all my opinion and the emotion is drawn purely from my own experiences. It’s almost hard to fathom the notion of community when everyone’s so quick to form an opinion and choose sides and start mudslinging.

NTTAWWT, since you are clearly a bloke. Just don’t go mistaking a bloke-centric remark for a universal truth.

I mean, I find some of your posts provocative, too, but I wouldn’t make the mistake of thinking everyone else does as well, and I certainly wouldn’t consider that it gave me the right to give in my inflamed lusts.

Here’s something else so obvious it’s boring: sexy dress is provocative.

No, what’s obvious and boring is that tedious little rant.

I have never heard a discussion about home burglaries that ends up focussing on the big question of “why don’t people buy house alarms?”.

A discussion of muggings that ends up with questions like “why must people buy nice things? Surely they realise that they’re just asking for them to be stolen!”

Women should be careful. Duh!

But why the hell does a debate about violence against women always turn into a discussion of what women are doing wrong?

No-one here has said that women don’t need to be careful. Only that that isn’t the point, and that perhaps women are tired of being told that they can’t have as much fun as man do. That we need curb our behaviour in order to help men behave responsibly.

It’s so obvious it’s boring.

Responsibility and blame are not the same word. They start with different letters and they don’t even rhyme. Everybody is responsible for some part of the incentives that they create. That does not imply blame… but if you’re trying to get an outcome (eg. not being raped) you shouldn’t ignore cause and effect.

If a person has an alarm system on their house, they will get robbed less. Therefore, if you want to get robbed less… {wait for it} … put an alarm system on your house!

Some uncomfortable (and somewhat OT) questions that people should probably ignore for the sake of their smug feeling of superiority:

* how do we compare physical violence with other forms of violence (eg. emotional abuse)? Legally, I believe the distinction is easy. Morally, I think it is difficult.

* how should we compare violence commited against women vis-a-vis against men? Are the sexes truly equal, or does chivalry live? Is the catch cry “never hit a woman”, or “never hit a human”? Are the actions (hit man, hit woman) morally equivalent?

if I go for a walk at midnight in Harlesden wearing a flashy suit and holding aloft a BlackBerry, I would be more likely to be mugged than if I skulked down the street in jeans and trainers looking destitute. Or, indeed, better still, did not visit the area at all after sundown.”

The difference being that I have never heard of someone being told they were in some way responsible for being mugged because they chose not to let cetain risks get in the way of living their lives.

At no time during these interviews, or in the newspaper coverage the following morning, was it even whispered that perhaps that 30-odd per cent of British people might have a bit of a point. It’s one of the things you’re not allowed to say. And yet, given the terms of the poll, common sense would suggest that those sexist blame-culture monkeys, that one third of the British public — pretty much equally divided between men and women, by the way — are entirely right.

The precise question asked by the ICM researchers was this: ‘I‚Äôm going to read out a series of scenarios which a woman may find herself in. In each, please could you indicate whether you believe a woman is totally responsible, partially responsible or not at all responsible for being raped.‚Äô And then followed the list of scenarios: being drunk, flirting, etc.

Now, your response may well depend upon what you understand by the word ‘responsible‚Äô or, indeed, ‘partially responsible‚Äô. (Only the real nutters, about the usual 5 or 6 per cent of the poll, put down ‘totally responsible‚Äô, by the way ‚Äî so Amnesty International‚Äôs headlines were technically accurate but nonetheless misleading.) Clearly, if you are a woman who is as drunk as a skunk, flirting outrageously with a man while wearing a boob tube and micro skirt, the likelihood of your being raped is going to be greater than if you stayed at home with a cup of Bovril watching Songs of Praise and dressed like Ann Widdecombe.

This does not remotely mitigate the guilt of the rapist, however — and that supposedly errant one third of the British public didn’t seem to suggest that it should, either. A comparable scenario might be this: if I go for a walk at midnight in Harlesden wearing a flashy suit and holding aloft a BlackBerry, I would be more likely to be mugged than if I skulked down the street in jeans and trainers looking destitute. Or, indeed, better still, did not visit the area at all after sundown. But my comparatively risky behaviour does not lessen by one iota the guilt of my mugger, even though you might argue that I am partially responsible for my own downfall.

Her dad now runs a PI company and Veronica works at it and her mission for the season is to find out who killed her best friend and about the rape.

Try it out, the description may not sound the best but I enjoyed the season especially

SPOILER

*
Especially the second last episode which deals primarily with the ‘rape’ where we really question what rape is, how it is defined in the circumstances between people involved etc.

*

END OF SPOILER

Hope that helps.

My choice to drink or not doesn’t change the event but HIS choice to have sex with me without my consent does change whether rape occurs or not.

Rape is always the rapist’s fault. Rape would not occur without the choice and decision made by the rapist. They choose to rape, rape occurs. They choose to not rape, well rape doesn’t occur. It’s as simple as that. It doesn’t matter whether I’m wearing a 3 inch skirt, a low cut top or have a bit of alcohol in my system.

For those that are interested, the notion of ‘when is it rape’ is interestingly covered in the new show on Monday nights at 7.30 on Channel Ten called Veronica Mars. I won’t mention anymore because it will spoiler people but it covers, and not in an ‘After School Special’ type of way, the interpretations of what rape is and when is it rape.

On the other hand …

*accepts Zoe’s hugs on behalf of EP*

*hugs back*

That’s better.

I think also that many still hold the impression that the type of woman who gets raped is a drunken, flirty, bold, hussy who is barely dressed. If this were the case many more of us would be safe. Unfortunately it is not the case, as many women discover when they wake to find a stranger/exboyfriend/drunk boyfriend/relative in their bedroom with evil intentions.

EP made a good point earlier in the thread when he pointed out that men are often shown on TV as vile beasts who can’t control themselves. We should also stop the dramatisation of rape which perpetuates the idea that the victims get drunk and get themselves into bad situations.

Nora - I think all women are aware that it’s unsafe to do many things, especially at night. Some do them anyway, just to show that they aren’t scared. Good luck to them, but you won’t find me there. But the vast majority of us take steps to ensure we are safe, and some of us get raped anyway. Just because we were there. You may say we were in the wrong place at the wrong time, but that’s just crap. We can’t live our lives in our houses, not that we are safe there anyway all the time. Like many women when my partner is away my toddler sleeps with me so if anyone did break in I could defend us both, or get us both out of the house first. We all have contingency plans, we all take care of ourselves, but sometimes it’s not enough. That’s why men need to understand that it’s never appropriate to force yourself on a woman, no matter what the circumstances.

Fine Australian film, a great wheelie too. Synopsis: town embarrased by unladylike behaviour and subsequent attempts to reveal it.

Filmed in Toodyay, I’m a bit worried about Nab’s current WA fixation though - I feel we’ve led him on.

To Pav-ov Leinad say: Not always humans predators. If you meet Tooth-Cat in dark alley late at night, your own fault if not have rock.