So, those who actually know and mingle with other ethnic groups dont fear them, as cloistered monoculturalists do. How about that.

And Jack, Im sure the women of Australia sleep sounder at night knowing you’re out there, somewhere…

whilst vilifying reactive, short-term and low-intensity [ethnic violence] … from Anglo Australians.

By “low intensity” I mean few serious injuries such, as rape or murder, and negligible major property damage, such as arson. There was one significant incidence of property damage when a group of youths wielding baseball bats vandalised scores of cars in Maroubra. Apparently their associates were armed with Molotov Cocktails. And several Churches were also subtantially damaged.

And there was one life threatening injury:

a 23-year-old man was stabbed in the back by a group of males, described as being of Middle Eastern appearance,

This butchers bill is certainly “low intensity” by the standards of some of the ethnicly-conflicted nations that the present commenter has visited. And whose future he dearly wishes to avoid.

Of course the Cronulla riots were “high intensity” by Australian Culture War standards. It is not clear how this could possibly be, given that multiculturalism was supposed to usher in a reign of diversity celebration and community harmony.

Perhaps the shock will encourage hotheads on all sides to concentrate on the things that unite us, instead of those that divide us. The egg-heads will no doubt be the last to get it.

It’s becoming increasingly clear that the main difference between Jack Strocchi and Andrei Vyshinsky is that the latter had a superior command of the English language.

I am not surprised that Nabakov brings up Vyshinsky when making another one of his fact free and fanciful excursions into pixel. It is appropriate that one political hack quotes another one in the course of a hatchet job. Takes one to know one I guess.

The aptness of the reference extends to Nabakov’s political cronies. In the late seventies I read accounts of the Soviet prosecutor’s doings in Patrick O’Brien’s “The Saviours”, a history of the Australian (Old) Lefts moral disease in the Cold War. And now here we are again, discussing another example of the Australian (New) Left’s betrayal of Enlightenment ideals - this time in the Culture Wars. Nothing much has changed.

This book, and personal contact with the victims of communist tyranny, encouraged me to volunteer my services to some locally-based Slavic emigre groups. I can’t say that they helped to win the Cold War. But no one can say that they did not do their bit.

I did not do all that much. But I can at least say that I did not stand by and do nothing. My other political cahoots, who styled themselves as Leftists, blithely ignored Solidarity trade union’s cries for help.

And I am willing to bet that my puny contributions were worthier than anything Nabakov did to thwart Vyshinsky’s heirs. His Cold War effort, so far as I could see, was confined to blowing rasberries in the direction of Reagan.

And what I did I did for free. This is the kind of thing that might seem strange to a person, like Nabakov, who demands pay for speaking someone elses mind.

That book also instilled in me a life long suspicion of ostentatiously progressive political operators, the kind who have carved a comfortable niche cranking out their smelly little orthodoxies. One that the Nabakovs of this world have done nothing to allay.

Explain how the mob were vigilantes Jack. If they had been organizing patrols to throw louts off the beach they’d be vigillantes, but they weren’t. It wasn’t about protecting anyone, it wasn’t about just driving “gangsters� off the beach, it certainly wasn’t about taking the law into their own hands.

They say offence is the best defence. The multiculturalists are on the defensive now, more and more intellectuals and ordinary folk are realising that they are con artists and racketeers breeding social division for a cushy job and to feed their unearned and bogus sense of self-righteousness.

I have for years been warning of the dangers of ethnic identity politics. This policy breeds ethnic violence the way nuclear explosions scatter radioactive isotopes. Now my warnings are vindicated - and I am somehow to blame! It would make more sense to charge the firebrigade with arson.

To refute Steve Edney’s wilfully obtuse and mendacious interpretation: The offensive mob were not identical to defensive vigilantes. I specifically excluded classifying the violent sections of the mob as vigilantes. It was the lifeguards/surfies who were acting as vigilantes by “organizing patrols to throw louts off the beach”. Thats why they were bashed.

My repeated use of the phrase Cronulla Bashings was in reference to those persons assaulted in the leadup to these riots. Thats why I characterised the vigilant lifeguards and outraged women as “victims”, because bashing community workers and assualting women makes them victims of crime. Capice?

(No wonder my comments are so long: detailed exposure of lies and elaborating the bleeding obvious is a painstaking and tedious chore.)

It is perverse to concentrate on a one-hit wonder riot on one side and ignore the long train of abuses that perpetrated by the other side in the lead up to this unpleasantness. Over the past few years Cronullan residents were subjected to a series of attacks by ethnic gangstas:

LONG before race riots broke out last weekend, trouble was brewing on Sydney beaches. Lifesavers who volunteer at North Cronulla - that gorgeous beach in Sydney’s south that was the setting for Puberty Blues - have been complaining for years about a weekend invasion….

They allege the men taunt the lifesavers by stealing equipment and kicking balls at them. They annoy other beachgoers by claiming large sections of sand, from the water to the beach stairs, as a football pitch. They force people who are sunbaking to move by kicking up sand around them. They park illegally, blocking people’s driveways, and tread all over people’s towels. ….

There is seething resentment, too, about their treatment of local girls, especially young girls, of Anglo-Saxon appearance, who say the boys stand over them as they sunbake, blocking the sun to get their attention and ogling their bikini-clad bodies. They leer, whistle and make appalling suggestions about how they might pass time on the beach, offering to have sex with the girls and asking if they are virgins. ….

Maybe this sort of thing does not bother Steve Edney or Jason Soon. They have the right to be nasty, hateful and mean-spirited people. But I question the right of these people to claim the “progressive” mantle when they remain indifferent to a long series of racist and sexist outrages. Why doesnt Kate, a supposedly sturdy feminist, stick up for her oppressed sisters? I wonder why anyone take seriously her claim to be called “feminist”.

But culturally progressive people have only one kind of politically convenient victim: an ethnic client. That’s where the welfare funding, branch stacking and captive votes are to be found to “resource” their rackets.

Steve Edney says:

So when you claim that this mob were somehow vigillantes and “victims� you do excuse the behaviour and I will continue to find this morally repugnant

I can prove by quote chapter and verse that Steve Edney is lying about my attitude to mob violence. I have never claimed that the mob as a whole were vigilantes or excused any part of the mob, either “Arabic” or “Anglic”, from violence. It is a lie to suggest otherwise.

I have criticised, not condoned, violent mobsters of all ethnic persuations. Here is my plague-on-both-houses take on the rioters:

THe concrete link with the Cronulla riots is easy to establish. The Cronulla riots were a pent up (and UNCIVIL) response by Australian Anglo ethnics to uncivil behaviour by an Arabic ethnic group, the Lebanese.

If the “progressives” had their way the police will be culturally sensitised, the locals would be disempowered and the women would be at the mercy of the gangsters. Tim Priest has exposed this part of the multicultural racket:

In many of the key areas that were experiencing rapid rises in Middle Eastern crime, these new leaders became more concerned with relations between the police and ethnic minorities than with emerging violent crime. The power and influence of the local religious and minority leaders cannot be overstated. Police began to use selective law enforcement. They selected targets that were unlikely to use their ethnic background and cultural beliefs to hinder police investigations or arrests.

Rather than protect the innocent victims the “progressive” tactic is to disempower police, blame the victim and shoot the messenger. This is the main reason why local residents were up in arms. Lets hear, for a change, what they have to say:

Residents have complained of harassment by visiting groups of young men, claiming it is so offensive that some locals no longer use the beach.

Mr Iemma, Mr Scully and Mr Goodwin quickly left as anger rose among the onlookers.

“Who’s supposed to defend us?” a resident who gave his name as John said to reporters.

“(The gangs) just laugh at the police.

“The gangs come here and cause trouble, harass everybody, and steal.”

Cronulla resident Wade Dyson said he would take matters into his own hands if trouble broke out this weekend.

“We need to show them we’ve got numbers too, then they might see,” Mr Dyson said.

“I’ll defend my friends if anything happens.

Its not as if the incidence of ethnic gangsterism are one-off or untypical. Over the past few years there has been abundant evidence that some ethnic gangs have been rampaging accross Southern Sydney and targetting Anglo females on the basis of race. Paul Sheehan exposes the real story of ethnic racist and sexist hate crimes, and the shameful denial by cultural progressives:

The most brutal, most brazen discrimination committed in Australia, by Australians against Australians in recent decades - discrimination that was sexual and racial and violent - was committed against scores of young women in Sydney over an extended period between 1998 and 2002.

the Anti-Discrimination Board of NSW…. published a 120-page report, Race for the Headlines, which at every turn seeks to dispute, sanitise and minimise the racial element of the gang-rape narrative.

That sounds just like some Larva-Prodders and Jason Soon, our resident racist and sexist hate crime deniers and belittlers. Here are some first hand reports of the kind of goings on that these dear people dont want you to think about:

A second detective sergeant, who asked not to be named, told me: “In reality, the rape figure is much higher. Many girls don’t have the courage to face these young men. They are ruthless; they have no regard for the law.

It has absolutely nothing to do with religion, but they operate like mini tribes. When you get a call that 30 men of Middle Eastern appearance are making a disturbance at a club, you make sure you call for the cavalry before you go out there.”

A third NSW police officer, Sergeant Frank Reitano, agrees: “The Middle East gangs have very little respect for police. They are aggressive all the time with us.”

Priest said: “These gangs are so disenfranchised from any link to Australia they don’t give a stuff about this country.”

The number of young women in Sydney who have been threatened or insulted by young men of Muslim background must run into the hundreds. After the gang-rape story broke I received hundreds of emails on the subject, including about a dozen from young women such as the following, sent by a 20-year-old student at the University of NSW: “At Rozelle markets last Saturday I was called a ‘cheap white slut’ and ‘a dumb whore’ by a Lebanese guy with his tracksuited mates. When I told him he was disgusting one of them said I’d better watch my back.”

Tribalism, sexism, racism. Sound familiar? There seems to be a pattern here, one that I have harped on repeatedly. So shoot me, I am the messenger.

I cannot end without a comment on the deformed moral sensibilities of my disputants. They have been nothing short of disgraceful, with blatant lying and monstrous double standards being the order of the day. They give a free pass to the instigators, and main forcers, of ethnic violence whilst vilifying reactive, short-term and low-intensity incidence of the same kind of thing from Anglo Australians. This is moral perversion, a step down from moral equivalence and “morally repugnant” allright.

You only have to consider their silence on two shocking aspects of this conflict in order to draw disturbing conclusions about defects in their character.

Where is the outrage about life-guard bashings? Life guards are considered sacred in this country. The present commenter has many times relied on the bravery and community spirit of these selfless individuals. But people like Steve Edney seem to have a tin ear to conventional moral tones.

I also question the chivalry and manhood of some of my disputants. I pity any poor female under the pusillanimous care of these “whiggish perspective” or progressive “left of centre” types. Fancy a woman being monstered by gangstas and having to rely on the likes of them for protection! Going by their excuse making and throat clearing on this score its a fair bet that they would find some reason to play down the outrage, and politely excuse themselves from the fray.

I have never defended the actions of “an out of control mob hunting victims on the basis of appearance�. I would invite Steve Edney to point to any sentence of mine that does this. He cant, because I have not.

He also wrote earlier

They consist of nothing more than blaming the victim (Cronulla vigilantes) …

Explain how the mob were vigilantes Jack. I’d be pretty sure the Gaurdian Angels would look pretty poorly upon being compared with what happenned in Cronulla.

If they had been organizing patrols to throw louts off the beach they’d be vigillantes, but they weren’t. It wasn’t about protecting anyone, it wasn’t about just driving “gangsters” off the beach, it certainly wasn’t about taking the law into their own hands. It was about driving an entire ethnic group off the beach and if you were greek or Jewish or in some other way swarthy and mistaken then you were fair game as well. This is certainly not lawful.

Now you may argue that this was merely the “the worst portionâ€? however from reports the “worst portion” consisted of several thousand people surrounding a pub, chanting racist slogans at a suspected “leb” who had been chased there. Now it may not be the entire crowd but it was a fairly large chunk.

So when you claim that this mob were somehow vigillantes and “victims” you do excuse the behaviour and I will continue to find this morally repugnant

Spot which quote is by whom.

“This is the old Clemenceau thesis, but in a new version, edited by the united centre of the Trotskyite-Zinovievite terroristic bloc.”

“The evolution of a Lockean-Kantian-Rawlsian state has been, or should be, from an origin (ethnic) kinsmanship to a destination of (ethical) citizenship.”

“At present I merely wish to emphasize once again that the accused are not political infants, that they are hardened players in the political struggle; they know perfectly well that they must answer not only for recognizing terror “theoretically”.

“But the professional and political intellectuals who were responsible for managing and selling these programs have not, through stupidity or duplicity, owned up to their errors or rorts.”

“I demand that dogs gone mad should be shot - every one of them!”

“They should be pelted with dead dogs until they recant their foolish cultural philosophy.”

And there is so much more where all that came from. And if we’re really unfortunate, we’re gonna have this observation denounced in immense and laboured detail by Jack…or Andrei.

The scary and morally repugnant thing here is you think that a drunken lynch mob are “victims�. They weren’t a bunch of vigilanties patroling the beach if trouble arises. They (or at least the worst portion) were an out of control mob hunting victims on the basis of appearance.

I have never defended the actions of “an out of control mob hunting victims on the basis of appearance”. I would invite Steve Edney to point to any sentence of mine that does this. He cant, because I have not.

On the contrary, on this very thread I linked to an extended take on the matter on another site where I made clear my (critical) attitude towards the “the worst portion” of the Cronulla locals who engaged in aggressive behaviour towards “persons of Middle Eastern appearance”. Actually it is most likely that the worst offenders were out-of-town hate criminals, not vigilantes. I have criticised, not condoned, violent mobsters on both sides:

THe concrete link with the Cronulla riots is easy to establish. The Cronulla riots were a pent up (and UNCIVIL) response by Australian Anglo ethnics to uncivil behaviour by an Arabic ethnic group, the Lebanese.

UNCIVIL means bad, wrong, Get it? So no more falsehoods about my “scary and morally repugnant stance”. Jason Soon feels free to fabricate and slander me at whim. He has already been warned about this kind of behaviour before and has had false and slanderous posts on another site deleted. I would expect better from Steve Edney.

It is grotesque for Larva Prodders focus on the uncivil behaviour of a tiny fringe group and ignore the legitimate concerns of the mainstream community which felt itself under siege. Most legitimate protests have an unruly element - does anyone remember how the protesters against Pauline Hanson treated the Hansonites political meetings? They spat, punched and sabotaged her right to free speech. But I bet the individual Larva Prodders, and their cahoots, were silent about this violent fringe because those protesters were politically correct. Hypocrites again.

In any case, vigilantism per se is not wrong and in fact is the right of any member of civil society who is threatened by marauders and who does not have adequate protection from the authorities. The Guardian Angels are vigilantes. I certainly appreciated their presence in my ‘hood when I travelled on the Subway and trekked accross the Park at the height of the Crack Wars. Is Steve Edney saying that the Guardian Angels are “scary and morally repugnant”?

Most of the Cronulla locals were doing nothing more than that - taking to the streets in a show of force to repel gangsters. The locals were certainly being subject to the depredations of marauding gangs without proper civil protection. Their life-guards were being routinely harassed and bashed, women were being molested and cars were being vandalised.

What made matters worse was that “culturally sensitive” policing has let the problem of ethnic gangsters get right out of hand. Another example of the way the multiculturalists have aided and abetted criminals (remember Theophanous?).

Did the Larva-Prodder speak up against this train of abuses whilst it was going on? (I did, and was howled down as hyperbolic or bigoted for my troubles.) Not on your nelly. They never do that, to busy trying to justify their committment to a socially divisive, corrupt and reactionary cultural program.

And when the inevitable happened and a nativist reaction occurred, something I have been warning of for years, they engaged in grotesque moral disequivalence. Not only did they give a free pass to the ethnic gangsters. They defended the politcal programs that created and nurtured them.

Indeed, the Larva Prodders went on the offensive. They focused on criticising a small violent fringe of the protesters and vigilantes who engaged in a few scuffles. Or lambasting Alan Jones whose actions were harmful enough but simply echoed the grass roots communications by emailers and smsers. (Jones audience is mainly 55 and not the kind likely to take to the streets.) Or, ludicrously, blaming the War on Terror or Iraq attack for a problem that has been brewing for almost a decade.

The Cronulla nativist reactions was chickenfeed compared to the ethnic gangsters response which was to return to base and attacking in force the next night:

A second night of unrest in Australia’s biggest city Sydney left seven people injured and dozens of cars damaged in apparent reprisal for racial violence on a city beach at the weekend, police said on Tuesday.

Gangs of youths, mainly Muslim and from Middle East backgrounds, attacked several people with baseball bats, vandalised cars and had running skirmishes with police, they said.

At one beach, Maroubra, police said they found 30 Molotov cocktails and crates of rocks stockpiled on rooftops along the beach’s main road.

The thing is, the Cronulla reaction has been a success, at least from the harassed locals point of view. The police are now out in force and ethnic gangsters will think twice before descending on the suburb for another bout of argy-bargy. Also, the problem is now a high priority and it is likely that police will crack down in earnest on gangsters of all persuations. One would think that this is a step in the right direction.

But a more decisive step in this quarter would be for Larva Prodders to own up to their own intellectual and moral failures on cultural policy matters. Instead of denouncing and defaming those who have been prescient enough to warn of the dangers that are exemplified by the Dutch Assasinations, London Bombings, Paris Burnings and Cronulla Bashings.

Liam’s models are degenerate, ad hoc refutation immunization strategies. They consist of nothing more than blaming the victim (Cronulla vigilantes) …

The scary and morally repugnant thing here is you think that a drunken lynch mob are “victims”. They weren’t a bunch of vigilanties patroling the beach if trouble arises. They (or at least the worst portion) were an out of control mob hunting victims on the basis of appearance.

The victims are the lifesavers that got bashed by thugs, the people who got bashed by the racist mob because they looked like lebs and the victims of the random and racists attacks on people and cars by lebanese gangs.

Donald Mackay was murdered by vietnamese? I thought it was the Italian mafia?

Well its a toss up and depends on how you define “ethnic gang” and “political assasination”. Seeing as how Grassby, the pioneer multiculturalist, was implicated in smearing the Mackay family on behalf of an ethnic criminal gang this is not a debate that a prudent multiculturalist Wet should be interested in pursuing.

BTW, In Australia, the (age-standardised) Italian-born crime rate is about 2/3 of the general Australian native crime rate and half the Vietnamese-born crime rate. Of course there are still a few rotten apples in the Italian immigrant barrell.

You really don’t get Jus Soli do you Jack. It’s not about ethnicity or religion or anything like that. It’s about fairness.

Don’t lecture me about political theory. Liam is the one who needs to go back to school. My distinction between ethnic politics and ethical politics fairly closely corresponds to the classical distinction between Jus Sanguina (citizenship by socio-biological identity) and Jus Soli (citizenship by jurisdictional station).

Listen, get yourself a copy of Alistair Davidson’s From Subject To Citizen (Cambridge Uni Press 1997), sit down and have a read about citizenship theory in the past hundred years of Australian history,

Listen, open your eyes and think for yourself instead of burying your nose in books. I did not have to study international law or history to figure these distinctions out (although I have). I worked them out myself, they are obvious from first principles of political philosophy and socio-biology. Not to mention one’s own ‘lyin eyes.

My models of cultural organization (ethno-tribal-gangsta-global / Clash within Civilization) predicted this outbreak of social conflict.

Liam’s models are degenerate, ad hoc refutation immunization strategies. They consist of nothing more than blaming the victim (Cronulla vigilantes) or shooting the messenger (Alan Jones, John Howard). They reveal nothing except the moral and intellectual bankruptcy of their builders.

It is Liam and hid political cahoots who need to sort themselves out. Their intellectual grasp on the social situation is pretty slack, and it appears their moral principles are questionable.

and please, please, please, don’t repeat anything you’ve said above around any recent Vietnamese immigrants because the ones I know would be liable to get really really fucking offended if you associated them with Phoung Ngo. Seriously.

That sounds like a threat. Really, the immorality and stupidity of the multicultural Wets continues to stagger me. I correctly predict these problems and in retaliation they issue thinly veiled threats to silence the tocsin-sounder and whistleblowers. So now free speech is being chilled by Liam…and whose army? Ha ha ha. Bring ‘em on I say.

FTR I think that, although the Vietnamese community has spawned a large amount of ethnic gangsterism, the vast majority of the Vietnamese community are non-gangsterish and not even particularly ethnic, especially the nerdy students. So their social prospects are good.

I even took the trouble to spell this out in the kind of plain language which Liam obviously has trouble comprehending. Here it is again for him and his oh-so scary mates to mull over:

Fortunately Vietnamese children seem to have fairly high IQ’s. Now that Howard and the Salvation Army are winning the war on drugs they have found more useful outlet for their talents, with some tragic [Nguyen Tuong] exceptions.

But that does not mean that, over the past generation, there has not been considerable grief caused by bungling and rorting of the immigrant selection and settlement program. Or that there is not a long way to go before the social structure of South East Asians is isomorphic to the native Caucasian distribution ie equality of opportunity.

The fact is that the South East Asian ethnic community have had a major criminal gang problem. Anyone who travelled down to Cabramatta in a non-comatose state would be aware of this. Only a reign of politically correct error, which even extended to the Police Force, prevented proper action from being taken.

Also, I am not so optimistic about the prospects for social progress of South West Asian ethnic communities. I am not exactly Robinson Crusoe on this issue. Tim Priest blamed the multicultural racket for disabling police and empowering local thugs:

The Peter Ryan-style policing of day-to-day media spin is still present. No one seems to have the courage to say that this is a problem that we need to fix before it gets worse. The time when the Middle Eastern problem really takes root in this city, the point from which there is no return, just like Los Angeles, is but a few years away.

In many of the key areas that were experiencing rapid rises in Middle Eastern crime, these new leaders became more concerned with relations between the police and ethnic minorities than with emerging violent crime. The power and influence of the local religious and minority leaders cannot be overstated. Police began to use selective law enforcement. They selected targets that were unlikely to use their ethnic background and cultural beliefs to hinder police investigations or arrests.

There is also the serious possibility that some of these Middle Eastern youth that are engaged in organised crime and have no regard for our values and way of life may go a step further and engage in terrorist acts against Australia. The ingredients are there already. It is but a small step from urban terrorism to religious and political terrorism, as we have seen with groups such as the IRA, where organised crime often became interwoven with terrorism.

These people do not have the same focus on intellectual improvement as East Asians. The unpleasant results can be observed on the streets and beaches, to any one with a sighted eye to see and a half a brain to think. As someone who resides in Bondi but works out West I speak with some feeling.

Every twelve-stepping programmer knows that self-revelation is the first step to recovery. But the professional and political intellectuals who were responsible for managing and selling these programs have not, through stupidity or duplicity, owned up to their errors or rorts. The example of people like Liam does not make me optimistic about the prospects for our civic health.

As Liam mentions there have previously been other attemps as well, The Prince of Wales and Arthur Calwell, both survived attempts.

Media reports at the time of Newman’s assassination identified it as the first political assassination in Australia. Those reports carry more authority than a pissy Wikipedia entry.

Im happy to take that last dump of unfocussed, vituperative rhetoric as a concession speech on the substantive points.

And now, it only remains to wrap the dry, tattered remants of your thesis: Nearly all Muslim Lebanese came in between 1976 and 1981 under the Fraser/ Howard government, which ran a special humanitarain program ( as the refugee Convention does not cover civil war). So, no, cant blame the ‘wets’ of the ALP. And anyway, as already established, you’ve been imagining the whole wet/ multiculto thing anyway - as we’ve alrady noted, skilled migration reach a peak of % intake under Hawke in ‘88. Howard merely following along, as always, just with extra “Anglo -primacy” rhetoric to sucker the gullible into believing he’s doing it all differently.

And if you really dont like our immigration program - why not take it up with the Business Council of Australia, who drive the issue these days.