We can be an insular mob, we Aussies. We tend not to see complexity and difference, and we forget that stuff that happens here is often caused by similar factors to what happens elsewhere. These two characteristics are on display in the reactions to the Cronulla events and their aftermath, in the media and in the blogosphere.
The first is a subset of the creation of a binary divide between “Aussies” and “ethnics”. Ethnics blur into one another, captured by terms like “wogs” and anyone of “Middle Eastern appearance” becomes fair game for rampaging mobs. The specificity of the Lebanese experience in Australia is completely effaced, and all Lebanese people are assumed to be in some arcane way responsible for the actions of a few. In fact what’s new about the Cronulla events is that white crimes have been named as such. Normally no one would assume that if – say, Steve Vizard committed financial crimes, all Anglo Aussies were prone to embezzlement. Yet if Lebanese gangsters commit rapes, what is assumed? In fact – in these events – it’s precisely the cultural characteristics of Anglo Aussies and their fear of the other which has ironically rebounded on the usual ascriptions of cultural causes for crime and disorder only to “ethnics”.
In promoting understanding, which despite the nativist know nothing climate that seems to have taken hold in this country over the last decade, is the way to dispel fear as well as ignorance, it’s wise to look at the history of Lebanese immigration. It’s also well worth noting that the appropriation of gangsta culture – as in France – is a sign of a globalisation of responses to social and economic exclusion that Sydney as a “World City” is not immune to. We’re fools if we think that these events can be explained purely in Australian terms, and bigger fools if we think that religion has anything to do with it. As to ethnicity? Well, if we didn’t create ethnic exclusion just as the French do and the Americans do with underclass urban African-Americans, we wouldn’t have a problem. It’s about time we started questioning our own ignorance. It’s not just Lebanese kids who have an identity problem. We need to get over this notion that there are “real” Aussies and others who must adjust and get on with creating a common culture based on dialogue and the recognition of difference. Instead of solving problems through violence, whether real, or the symbolic violence that stains “debates” in the Culture Wars.
Elsewhere: For a different take in terms of cultural politics, see Glen’s post. John Quiggin discusses possible legal consequences for sms-ers and shock jocks, and hosts a vigorous discussion. J F Beck from the self-proclaimed RWDB perspective has a pretty comprehensive links post, while Communio e Liberazione is impressed by Janet Albrechtsen. Samuel McSkimming at Catallaxy discusses Alan Jones’ alleged culpability. And at stoush.net, appropriately, there’s a stoush.
Mark.. good post
I’m a wog. I look like one, try not to act like one at home because of the misses as she is a nice Anglo gal (just kidding). But I’m a wog. As a wog, I would feel absolutely no danger in going to Southern city beaches if those who saw me knew I had Italian heritage. However, I would feel a little apprehensive after reading that another wog- an Italian was confused by the mob to be a Lebanese Muslim. And that’s the rub.
Let’s be specific about this. The angry mob was not was simply going after one strict racial group. In fact let’s be even more specific, they weren’t after Lebanese Christians. They had segmented that target group as narrowly as they needed to. It was Lebanese Muslims who they were after. Yes of course here were white supremacist in the mix of things but leaving those idiots out of the argument the vast majority of the people involved in the weekend melee were not targeting Hindus, Chinese or Italians (if they could tell Italians them apart). So it obviously was not a racist attack. It was a fairly spontaneous response to years of abuse by a very tight racial group.
I disagree with your summation that this a globalized replay of the Paris attacks. However I do agree there is a connection. As I see it the connection is the mass immigration of a culture that is alien to he host country where this alien culture is essentially working/lower class and has had difficulty fitting in with the host. This is the problem Europe faces and we do now. Notice one thing though, the Lebanese Christian groupings seemed to have assimilated quite well- very well in fact mainly because their cultural settings have allowed them to move freely through the host.
Can I provide evidence of this? Well, I mentioned in another post the Wall Street Journal ran an editorial piece exploring why US Muslim immigration has been amazingly successful. Michigan has the largest concentration of well to do Muslims. Nationally they enjoy a median income of around 65K vs the national median of 40k. The large majority of them are college educated.
We were lucky with South European Immigration because although the vast number were lower working class on arrival, most were able to assimilate quite well into the larger and frankly tolerant Anglo one. One generation later this group to which I belong has become part of the national fabric. Hell, there is a Greek as President of the national icon- Aussie Rules. Jeesh, if this doesn’t prove tolerance, I don’t know what could. Everybody hates the guy in exactly the same way and for the same reasons they would hate an Anglo president of the AFL. He is a dick, but not because he is Greek. He is a dick because we are supposed to hate the CEO of the AFL.
Who was the President of Ford Australia and later became world wide head- A Lebanese Christian!
The reason they able to assimilate was because Europeans, although very different north and south did still a semblance of commonly shared values. Hence why it worked, not by design but by accident. As strange as this sounds, Asians have also assimilated excellently into the cultural mix, which is because of a similar sense of values.
The arrival of lower socio group in both Europe and Australia from the Mid East has failed miserably, which will not in anyway change for the better going forward.
It’s bizarre that you think because the mob only attacks one specific race (which is debatable anyway), it was not racist. Bizarre.
Very good comment, Joe C. I tend to agree with most of what you say. It’s not bizarre to claim that because the mob only attacks one group it’s not racist – this is simply because it is NOT racist. Racism is the targeting of a racial group because of their supposed (to the racist) inferiority as a race. In this case that group were targeted because of their behaviour. Now whether the targeting of individuals was accurate or not is beside the point – we are talking about motivation, not the accuracy of the targeting.
Contributors to this site for some reason wilfully refuse acknowledge that there has been prolonged provocation by members of this group for a considerable time at Cronulla that finally boiled over to violence, with one incident as an immediate catalyst (the bashing of lifesavers). This incident alone would not in normal circumstances have resulted in the explosion that it did. However it was the straw that broke the camel’s back. The anglos simply lost their temper as a group, much to the subsequent regret and apology of some of them. Regretfully I don’t see a corresponding apology from the Lebanese Moslems.
Robert:
You know what is bizzare? Like you I at first thought this was a spontaneous racist attack against anyone who wasn”t Anglo.
Then:
I read there were many Islanders in the group.
The chants- wanting to kill Leb Muslim f…wts
Incredibly in one photo I saw Asian people standing by the sidelines not in the least concerned about their safety.
The most bizarre thing was that an Asian woman had her store attacked and ransacked by Lebanese Muslims the following night. If Cronulla was racist as you imply why had that woman with a thick Asian accent complaining loudly about what head happened to her shop have a shop in Cronulla in the first place if the place hates non-whites and wants to kill all of them? Naaaaaaaa this just doesn’t gel.
We also keep hearing how this burb is 90% Anglo. I have never heard in all my years any serious racial issues against the 10% non Anglos who live there. Have you?
Excellent post, Mark – you should blog more often!
Went to watch the Sharks play the Rabbitohs at their dunghill once or twice over the years. Let’s just say that that they treat THEIR blackfellas (eg David Peachey) better than anything Souths (or probably anyone else) could dish up in the indigenous stakes. The Shire racist? You betcha…
Hello? MO? The “blackfellas” themselves would argue that they’re the original Aussies… If your understanding of how racism works – good blackfella, bad Leb, is so unthought out, stay in the Shire, buddy, and turn up and fight your enemies like a man on Sunday…
Just parodyin…
Send me your mobile # and I’ll write my comment up as an sms for you…
Just bein helpful…
“Well, if we didn’t create ethnic exclusion just as the French do and the Americans do with underclass urban African-Americans, we wouldn’t have a problem. It’s about time we started questioning our own ignorance. It’s not just Lebanese kids who have an identity problem.”
Um, Mark, where’s your evidence that we do, in fact, create ethnic exclusion? Doesn’t your thesis fall to bits in the absence of such evidence?
I’m prepared to accept that there’s plenty of historical evidence, e.g. white Australia policy, and even current evidence in respect of our indigenous people, but seriously, where’s the current general ethnic exclusion?
Seen enough of the hill at Shark Park to realise that in the Venn diagram of life, many of those on that hill at said Shark Park would have have been the very same Sharkies throwing bottles at whomever they hated last Sunday, albeit from a very safe and confortable distance and with about the same fear of retaliation they would get from the “Family” hill at the footy. I’m sure you’re familiar with concept of safety in numbers
Same goes for our “religious” types from Lakemba and thereabouts. Wouldn’t say Boo to a goose on their own, but put them in a mob of ten at the beach, or one hundred at a Canterbury game and we are talking HEROES!!!
The bottom line? The white cowards outnumber the brown cowards.
Have you been watching the news, SJ? Sorry – Lebs – don’t come anywhere near “our” beaches. Go look up the employment and education outcomes for Lebanese Muslims and come back to us!
Oh, and while I’m at it, read up on some of James Jupp’s work. Guess what “ethnic” background the people at the top of politics, the law, business, academia and medicine are? And how much it’s changed in 30 years or so?
One guess – Anglo.
Joe: islanders and Asians can be racist too. And some racists are selective in the races that they attack. I’m still not sure what your point is.
“Have you been watching the news, SJ? Sorry – Lebs – don’t come anywhere near “ourâ€? beaches. Go look up the employment and education outcomes for Lebanese Muslims and come back to us!”
I was kinda hoping for a deeper response to my question, and preferably from Mark himself.
There was an obvious chain of causality in the recent events.
1) Attack on surf lifesaver at Cronulla.
2) Riot in Cronulla in response (1)
3) Reprisals in response to (2).
You seem to think think that the problem started at point (2).
What then do you think Mark meant by “the appropriation of gangsta culture”?
That the yobs from Cronulla suddenly appropriated gangsta culture? WTF?
SJ – Well, people aren’t on the internets 24/7 so perhaps you’ll get a response from Mark when he next is. But in the meantime, if you’ll enter into dialogue with other commenters, the point surely is that (2) was a disproportionate response to (1). I gather that the assailants of the lifeguard have now been charged. Isn’t it the Australian way for us to wait for the due process of law to take its course? Not to form a 5000 strong lynch mob?
As to “the appropriation of gangsta culture”, the way I read the post is that this is something that the Lebanese gangs have done. Nothing to do with the yobs from Cronulla.
Precisely, SJ. I do wonder why the memory of the left, including the SMH and the ABC, isn’t able to be stretched back to item (1).
“Go look up the employment and education outcomes for Lebanese Muslims and come back to us!”
I should have dealt with this more properly.
If you think there’s something significant in these outcomes, please present them. Please also present the employment and education outcomes for everyone from, say Macquarie Fields. Explain why the differences (if any) in these outcomes prove something, and what that thing is.
Incidentally, here’s a conflagratory email doing the rounds, my brother got sent one from an unknown source. Looks genuine, genuinely fascist in inspiration; and, erm, “culturally dry” as a dead dingo’s donger.
Moreover, in the great national tradition of being a pawn in a pointless, ill-defined war against Muslims, it draws heavily on ANZAC mythology. Enjoy!
LE
“..and bigger fools if we think that religion has anything to do with it….”.
So why have three Cristian churhes been attacked and two set on fire? These attacks had no religious signifiance then?
Robert
“Joe: islanders and Asians can be racist too. And some racists are selective in the races that they attack. I’m still not sure what your point is”.
Sure, any race can be racist that goes with being human. Well, for a group comprised of working class/ beach culture Aussies they sure know who they wanted to go after seeing Lebanese Muslims was continually chanted as the group they were after. Why not Lebanese Christians?
There aren’t a great deal of differences, SJ. Both the Anglo folks in Macquarie Fields and the Lebanese Muslims in Lakemba have limited life chances.
Oh how bizarre and disturbing, LE! The whole “fight them on the beaches” thing does indeed tie into Gallipoli mythology.
Joe – follow the link from the post.
Joe – as Kim says, it’s worth reading the articles to which I’ve linked. What’s suggested is that the Lebanese Muslims (with the caveat that we’re talking about gangstas who’ve little or no faith) want the Maronites to stand with them – hence attacks on Christian churches. The only one that makes sense is the drive-by on the largely Lebanese Catholic Parish in Auburn – the others could be copycats or random. A lot of bad shit happens when things reach boiling temperature.
“Oh, and while I’m at it, read up on some of James Jupp’s work. Guess what “ethnicâ€? background the people at the top of politics, the law, business, academia and medicine are? And how much it’s changed in 30 years or so?
One guess – Anglo.”
Given the ethnic make up of Australia, with a majority of “Anglos”, it would not surprise me in the least to find that the majority of people in any profession were “Anglos”.
I’ve never heard of James Jupp. If he has something interesting and relevant to say, summarise it and post it, or link to it or something.
Your “go do your homework” responses are unhelpful.
LE
Are you serious. You read that as a manifesto from the right? You don’t the Hitler “yoof” league mixed up in that.
and you want to transplant it into the innards of conservatives.
They even hate Howard.
Pleeassse.
“There aren’t a great deal of differences, SJ. Both the Anglo folks in Macquarie Fields and the Lebanese Muslims in Lakemba have limited life chances.”
OK. Good response.
Do you understand now that I was actually asking Mark a serious question, and not just trying to stir up shit?
Mark
Someone shot towards a church meeting room where kids were having an Xmas party. It’s unheard of here!
Im afraid you have to rephrase Joe – not reading you.
I certainly do read it as far-right. Erm, dont you?
Where did I ascribe such views to Howardites? (Those pussies wouldnt have balls to do any more than wink at these hardcore ideas)
Curiously defensive of you Joe!
SJ, I did actually link to James Jupp’s op/ed in a previous post today on these matters. But here’s the the link.
The point is that the representation of Anglos at the top of society is disproportionate to their representation in the population – for similar reasons to the fact that there are far more men than women in top positions.
Joe – yes, it’s deplorable. But I still think it’s important to understand why such things are happening.
SJ – apologies on my and Kim’s behalf if we thought that. These blog threads do tend to get very polarised, and sometimes we type too quickly!
Yes, from me personally, too, SJ. I do have the slight mitigating plea that I’m pissed
Lets hope those ‘Aussie Pride’ fanatics keep their symbolic bullets to themselves.
Que, C.L.?
If people are shooting its become a bloody appalling cycle.
On the side, I must say, there really is a strong undercurrent of immature, macho bullshit on both sides.
Gin and tonics slow down my comprehension! Must… listen… to… Brendan… Nelson… mature age phonics is the prophylactic to pissiness!
Lefty E, as the previous post said:
Thanks Mark Kim.
No probs, SJ. Must go to bed now lest hangover ensue!
I put a “plus” sign between the words “Mark” and “Kim”, which didn’t show up in the post. Obviously I meant to say “Thanks Mark and Kim”.
Understood, SJ!
I too am appalled by violent, macho Sydney boofheads who bash innocent Lebanese.
But I’m still puzzled about why the left wanted to elect one of them Prime Minister of Australia.
What we’re seeing is basically youth tribalism driven by a new experiment with the power of sms communications.
This is mostly a youth disciplary problem rather than a racial war, although youth tribalism could incorporate religious overtones. The church attacks are clearly sending a religious message, but not on the same level as church burnings in, say, Indonesia.
It’s interesting to note that there are not many over thirty’s involved (excluding media), and it may be that the Paris riots have ‘inspired’ some youth to take matters into their own hands and see how far they can take it, but I don’t think you can draw any more of a comparison than that.
There is an element of protectionism for those surf lifesavers, who are Aussie icons, and their bashing is clearly being seen as ‘touching the apple of our eye’ by these youth.
Tribalism includes territorialism. Terrorising sun bathers and life guards would be seen as invading Aussie culture, no matter what ethnic background you might have. This isn’t a simple religious/racial problem. It’s a declaration of the existance of a national identity within youth culture, regardless of colour or creed. It’s an interesting, if testing, development.
Are you so incapable of engaging with actual arguments, C.L., that you have to resort to your tried and trued “humorous” digs against THE LEFT?
Please enlighten us. As a representative of a SUPERIOR CIVILISATION! (NB – joke)
There’s a lot of truth in your comment, FaceLift. But what of the Lebanese teenage girls who’ve reported being subjected to sexual and physical threats and slurs on beaches in the Shire? Or is it only white skinned sun bathers who have the protection of Aussie culture against being terrorised?
Lefty E — I just got home from a yummy Thai dinner and nearly lost the lot when I read that disgusting circulating email, so thanks very much, not. I’m just glad that none of the real ‘men who ran into gunfire’ have read it, unless of course there really is life on the other side.
I agree that it looks genuinely fascist in inspiration. The phrase ‘race traitors’ is a dead giveaway.
It’ll be interesting to see what happens to any bird-brained beach vigilante who really is stupid or pissed enough to take on the Comancheros.
Mark,
Do you see attacks on the Lebanese girls as a response or an initiation? It can’t be condoned either way, but it may demonstrate that there is an element of macho immaturity raging on the beaches, which would be typical of some youth. You’re right, though, it isn’t what most of us would see as Aussie.
“SJ, I did actually link to James Jupp’s op/ed in a previous post today on these matters. But here’s the the link.
The point is that the representation of Anglos at the top of society is disproportionate to their representation in the population – for similar reasons to the fact that there are far more men than women in top positions.”
Your link, i.e., this:
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,17559574^7583,00.html
is just a pack of waffle about the Cronulla riots. If it in some way proves something about Anglo representation at the top of society, you’ll have to point it out more closely.
I’m still also waiting for a response to my initial question, which was this: “Um, Mark, where’s your evidence that we do, in fact, create ethnic exclusion?
I suspect that it’s neither a response nor an initiation, FaceLift. But that it’s been going on forever. When have teens never given each other crap on the beaches? And along obvious lines of division? I used to get shit in primary school for having a German name – memories of WW2 were still alive and there were lots of Hogans’ Heroes jokes to go around. And then I copped it during the first few years of high school for being bookish. Catholics and Protestants were throwing stones at each others’ schools in the 50s and their elders putting out inflammatory propaganda. A friend of mine’s mum converted to Anglicanism when she found herself in Toowoomba in the early 50s as a deserted mother with a young baby and no-one would take her in because she was a mick. It’s not all that new – it can be worse or less worse – but it certainly doesn’t justify the racial hatred being openly advocated in the public sphere right now. All of us have a responsibility to speak out against it, in my opinion.
CL, I’ll pay that last comment.
SJ – I’m sorry, not everything is easily linkable. I’m not trying to be obtuse by saying that you might like to read Jupp’s published books for the evidence. Unfortunately because of the intellectual property rights of publishers most texts are not made available on the web. I don’t have a copy, but consulted his work recently – obviously I can’t make it to the library at this hour to give you chapter and verse
I don’t agree with your characterisation of his op/ed as waffle, either. It seemed to me that he made some very telling arguments.
I’m off to bed, but one book I haven’t read has a title that seems to me very much of the moment – Poor Fella My Country by Xavier Herbert. As I was alluding to in response to FaceLift, I’ve also felt a sense of (minor) exclusion from Aussie culture (there’s a limit when you have blue eyes…) but going back further in the history of Australian Germans – most of whom like my family came out to this land in the 1840s and 1850s – there have been some horrendous examples of prejudice and injustice. Which is why, despite my love for this country, I’ve always felt to some degree a stranger in a strange land. I repeat what I said in the previous post – who are these “Aussies”? Anglo-Celts? The two groups were at each others’ throats as recently as the 50s! And Italians, and Chinese, and Lebanese, and Germans, and many others, have been here in numbers long before WW2 and in many cases long before many self-identified Anglo Aussies. The whole fiction that this was a monocultural country until recently and “unassimilable” ethnics have spoiled the party ignores the hybridity that characterises our history and origins, and the deep conflicts that have always marred our sense of nationhood. It’s worth saying Poor Fella, My Country for all sorts of reasons. And let’s not forget what our nationhood is founded on forgetting – the Indigenous folks whose history is intertwined with ours, and against whom this “Aussie identity” was in great part defined.
I’m loving this whining coming from the left. It’s all someone else’s fault, apparently – in this case the Lebanese. Whatever happened to personal responsiblity, hey?
By left I mean right, of course.
And next to the crease for the ‘It’s The Fault of Multicultralism XI’ is Keith Windschuttle.
Ladies and gentlemen, it seems no-one yet has taken on Joe’s point.
Here in Sydanee for some time from up North ,Dural to down south, Cronulla, Lebanese Islamic ( it is the adjective to use) bullies go out of their way to assault essentially Anglos.
In football season you take your life in your hands if your son is playing anywhere near Dural.
Given that these people turn up within 5-10 minutes because of mobile phones it probably means it is premeditated.
This is the cause of what happened on Sunday.
Sunday was a disgrace but ignoring and then apologising for such behaviour is simply extraordinary.
One thing that interests me why isn’t the behaviour of the Lebanese ‘muslims’ racist?
On the contrary, the pathology of Joe’s point has been well-dissected.
Bill Posters
No it hasn’t been answered. We have a smaller version of Paris happening and some are blaming tha Anglo’s.
Let me tell you why I found this Sunday disturbingly similar to the French problem.
About a year ago Paris school kids and their teachers were doing what the French seem to do well. They were demonstrating on the streets of Paris because the teachers or whoever (I forget now) were forced to work 3 hours a week instead of two (I jest about the hours but not about the demo). As they were demonstrating the kids were being picked out by Muslims thrown to the ground kicked and robbed of their phones and money. The pack of animals doing this were working in groups of 10 and were so brazen about it that they were prepared to be interviewed on French television to explain their story (as though there was one).
Their story was that they hated French kids because they were small and weak who couldn’t defend themselves. They said they hated everything about France and found it was doing belting them up.
The Freanch cops, probably because it was lunch time were doing absolutely NOTHING to stop it despite being fully aware of what was going on. I wish I kept the link.
One year later this story sounds eerily familiar with what happened in Sydney.
Wake up.
Mark:
You said:
Mark, you are a 4th generation Australian! Your feelings of strangeness here was put in for dramtic license.
Mark:
You said:
my family came out to this land in the 1840s and 1850s – there have been some horrendous examples of prejudice and injustice. Which is why, despite my love for this country, I’ve always felt to some degree a stranger in a strange land.
It is obvious you are saying that for dramtic license. You are 4th generation Australian for crissy’s sake.
No billposters it reading above leftoids seem to have completely forgotten any reason why Lifeguards were bashed, why they were bashed and the history behind it.
Time started only on Sunday!
Homer:
Good point
“….completely forgotten any reason why Lifeguards were bashed,…..”
The thing we all seem to have missed was the significance of this attack. Lifeguards are an Australian Icon, for God’s sake.
Does anyone recall any old movietone news bulleitn showing an Australian beach scene that didn’t have lifeguards as the central backdrop.
You mean the 5000 racists who gathered for a day of leb and wog bashing?
Can’t imagine why they’re being blamed.
You complain that time seems to have started on Sunday, yet you seem unwilling to go back further and examine the question of racism in the community.
Joe and BBEP, your posts are just endless variations on “the Lebs started it”. Suitable for the schoolyard, perhaps, but surely you can do better.
about the original incident that the right-wingers are suggesting kick-started this furore. what I have heard, and this is 3rd iteration rumour, is that the lifesavers were 1) in their everyday clothes and not on duty, 2) lifesavers and not lifeguards, ie the volunteer weekend kind and not the employed kind, and it was suggested that this was purely incidental 3) insulting the group of leb boys saying, for example, “you can’t swim” etc., 4) told them to stop playing soccer.
can anyone confirm this? my source is pretty relable, but I would like o know if anyone else has come across a similar explication of the event.
10 years ago, if I was playing soccer with some mates at the beach and we had two idiots come up to us giving us shit, then they would’ve copped it too.
Awww, poor widdle Leb boyz…told they can’t swim. *Sniff.* That justifies FOURTEEN of them being called in to to bash the THREE evil volunteers.
For the record, my sources confirm they do indeed swim like girlie-men.
Your source left out that the verbal abuse was begun by the Lebanese. (In Arabic). The same group had abused women on the beach. You know, usual Islamic stuff – you’re sluts, we’ll rape you etc.
As for playing soccer on the beach, in the Queensland of my upbringing that would be reason enough to get turfed. Good to see.
well my source is actually a surfie friend of a well connected member at the surf club. where are you getting your information CL? talk back radio?
Friend of a friend, eh? Must be true.
QUOTE:
Police will allege that as the three lifesavers were walking from the beach to the boardwalk about 3pm four Middle Eastern youths [Lebanese Muslims - ed.] began yelling at them in Arabic. The lifesavers said to the the youths: “What are you looking at?”
The Middle Eastern youths [Lebanese Muslims - ed.] allegedly told the lifesavers to get off the beach and that they “owned” the beach.
The lifesavers allegedly responded by telling the youths that if they went in the surf, they would need rescuing because they could not swim.
[Apparently true! - ed.]
Strong coarse language was allegedly used by both groups. The taunt about swimming turned the aggression physical, with the four youths bashing the lifesavers and another eight to 10 Middle Eastern males [Lebanese Muslims - ed.] joining them, police will allege.
One surf lifesaver, aged 19, sustained a cut near his eye and the other two, aged 15 and 20, suffered facial bruising.
A lifeguard on patrol at the time of the attack told The Daily Telegraph yesterday a colleague had just finished patrol and was leaving the beach when he was allegedly confronted and abused by one of the men.
“There was some pushing and shoving and then another bloke ran up from behind and king hit him and then he was on the ground. That’s when I ran up to help,” he said. “They punched me and kept fighting.”
UNQUOTE.
from the same article:
“Meanwhile, The Daily Telegraph has learned police are not treating Sunday’s bashing as completely unprovoked.”
do you know what is absent from this account, CL? the soccer game. where did it go?
“three lifesavers were walking from the beach to the boardwalk”
did they, by any chance, walk in such a manner to disrupt the game being played?
“The Middle Eastern youths allegedly told the lifesavers to get off the beach and that they “owned” the beach.”
well, yes, this would make sense if the leb boys were playing a game and some idiotic surfie-bogans decided that they were going to walk across the patch of ‘turf’ (literally) that the leb boys had set aside for themselves from the whole beach.
so, where is the soccer game, CL? did it evaporate?
maybe the surfie-bogans were like you and had ignorant racialised understandings of what sort of games should be and should not be played at the beach.
In the Telegraph, eh? Must be true.
It was all WHITEY’S fault. But of course!
And the FOURTEEN on THREE gang bashing? That’s OK too, says Glen.
Fourteen was the same number of Lebanese men that gang-raped woman “C” in 2002. Must be a lucky number or something.
This crisis was begun by Lebanese thugs and it’s probable they’ll now think twice before doing it again.
Good.
Glen
And the Churches burned? And Xmas party for 5 year olds shot at?
How provocative were they exactly?
You know ,Glen, Jews have a very apt expression for the way some of us are tormenting ourselves.The espression is “self-hating Jew”. That should now be changed to “self-hating whites”.
Good example Joe. “Self-hating Jews” is a classic slur slur made by right-wingers against those Jews who dare criticise any aspect of the Israeli state’s illegal seizures of land in the occupied territories. Classic fascist shit – you criticise the state or associated political movements for their inhumanity & racism, and you’re a ‘race-traitor’.
yes, joe, sorry, you are 100% correct, of course, it is obvious, because I align myself with others according my race and when I see acts of stupidity committed by others I immediately check to see if they are white or not.
where have I mentioned that the surfie-bogans should be hated because they are white? that is a poor interpretation of what I have written. they should be pitied for being stupid. here the relation of alterity is not racial, but depends on me realising full well that I am privileged because I have had an elite education.
joe, I wasn’t commenting on other acts, I don’t know anything about them. If you want to conflate and combine multiple discrete acts and reduce their specificity, then that is great…
CL, as I have said, 10 years ago when I was young and stupid, if I had been playing soccer at the beach with 13 other people and you walked across our pitch and started insulting us, then you would’ve got the shit kicked out of you. If I was at the beach and in good spirits, I may have actually asked to join in playing soccer with them. I played indoor soccer for 6 seasons…
However, CL, I hardly think you would’ve walked across our pitch and started insulting us because you don’t appear to be that stupid, however right-wing you are. Lastly, you realise the numbers of 13 vs 3 thing is irrelevant, if not laughable, when you consider the riot’s 5,000 vs how many?
LE
No. It isn’t a classic right wing slur used by right wingers.
The only times I have seen this expression is by Jews against other Jews and quite frankly whenever I have seen it used its always been supported by strong evidence.
Surfers…”they should be pitied for being stupid”.
They should be pitied? Wish I could surf and look good on a board. Can’t be that stupid, can they?
Thats what I meant Joe – right wing Jews criticising other Jews as “self-hating” when trhey criticise Israeli policies. Its rearely backed up by anything other than an uncritical hyper-national chauvinism, and its the home front version of the intellectually dishonest “you must be anti-Semitic if you criticise Israels appalling policy of land seizures”.
Joe, what I wrote was what I feel – I did say that it’s not a terribly strong feeling.
Anyway, here’s what an Australian Muslim woman, Shakira Hussein had to say at Crikey yesterday (reproduced with permission):
Interesting to see that they’re now talking about a Bosnian style partition of the beach.
“Interesting to see that they’re now talking about a Bosnian style partition of the beach.”
Phew, for a moment I thought the tone evident in that line indicated your approval of a racial apartheid arrangement on North Cronulla beach. Not so, however. It’s just a commonsense separation of activities (sand sports, surfing, sunbaking, etc,) Presumably anyone can engage in any of these activities regardless of race. Hardly Bosnian style partition though is it Mark? Why do you feel compelled to sensationalise a sensible idea in such a pejorative manner?
I wonder if the expression, you re not worth fifteen years has ever been directed at Lebanese women by Anglos.
Indeed if Anglos provoke a fight do they they ring up and get 10-20 fellow gang members down to beat the living daylights of the person? Remember they get there within 10 minutes so they ain’t far away but hey its only coincidental as is the skin colour of the people they assault but don’t you dare call it racist!
I was being ironic, whyisitso
Glen is obviously a thug too. We wouldn’t have been on the same beach anyway, chief. My people didn’t play that ladies’ game.
Mark
I simply don’t believe that girl. I think she is made up or simply lying. There is a very slick campaign going on by Muslim “leaders” in the way they are handling this.
They first demonstrated sorrow and regret, but two days later they are in their perptual victim status routine. This girl if she at all exists is lying.
My understanding is, such a girl would not be able to go to the beach unaccompionied in similar fashion to those allegedly attacked on Sunday.
As a side note: As a Muslim how would anyone be able to see anything other than her eyes.
The shorter Joe Cambria: I only believe the testimony of Anglo girls.
“As a side note: As a Muslim how would anyone be able to see anything other than her eyes. ”
Good lord, Joe, I hope you were trying to be funny. Do you think every Muslim woman goes around in a burqa??
Jason
I didn’t she did. She said she and her friends wear the hajib while swimming.
” some of whom lived most of their lives in countries far from the ocean, others who are strong swimmers, even when fully dressed and wearing hijab”.
So, we are expected to believe a fully clothed (Islamic attire) woman is gunna romp around in the waves battleing surf boards.
I was waiting to see if she was also gunna spin the idea that they use surfboards wearling the full attire.
No wait there’s more. Anglo surfy types are hitting on a fully clothed gal wearing the full dress.
Yea, and pigs fly, or should I say camels.
I have a bridge for sale and Crikey wants to buy it. Shit, it’s already been sold and they bough the bloody thing.
Joe
The Internet has a wealth of information. Go look up ‘hijab’ and then go look up ‘burqa’. You will have no problems seeing an attractive woman’s face even if she is wearing a hijab anymore than you’d have problems seeing a nun’s face.
you can’t fool anyone Jason you have to go out west to see the back of burqa
I don’t really want to labor this, but let’s picture the scene. A gaggle of fully attired (Islamic dressed gals) are sitting on a sand-less beach in Bondi showing 3 sq cm of skin i.e. barely their eyes. It is sand-less is because when you are covered head to toe sand is a problem it gets in all the clothes.
10 yards away a gaggle of surfy boys are ogling the sight. And the conversation goes something like this:
Blond surfer 1 Yea dude look at the body on the one on the left. She looks great
Blond surfer 2 Dude, The one on he right….. I can’t make out her body, face, or hair color but I reckon she’s a better scoop.
Blond surfer 3. Yea, dudes, like we’re made the night I’m gunna talk to the one in the middle who eyes I can just make out.
Crikey wants to be paid for this swill
Sorry guys I was under sedition for a small procedure today and the anesthetic is still affecting me. As I never check my gram spell check this must be worse than usual.
This I’m not kidding.
Jason
That’s just it. You can’t make out how they really look.
I am not making any comment about their beauty or otherwise because you simply can’t tell.
Joe
though you show some promise as a writer of Benny Hill-type humour, your reading comprehension skills leave much to be desired. The Crikey story was about the woman’s experiences with her friends and how they were harrassed
(1) She describes herself as the only non-Anglo in the group
(2) there is no indication that she herself wears either a burqa or a hijab
SEDATION….. sh.t. It hasn’t worn out yet.
“some of whom lived most of their lives in countries far from the ocean, others who are strong swimmers, even when fully dressed and wearing hijabâ€?.
I have to admit, I thought this was a tad one-eyebrow-raising myself. Firstly, It would be extremely ill-advised to venture into a full-on Sydney surf, fully dressed – strong swimmer or not. Particularly, if you were wearing the garb prescribed for a devout muslim woman. In a rip or undertow, you’d be history. I’ve certainly seen modestly clad muslim women paddling and playing happily with their kids on the water’s edge but I’ve never seen one breasting the breakers and were I a lifeguard at said beach, I’d be strongly advising against it. Secondly, would a devout muslim woman voluntarily appear in post-swim, wet-look clothing in public where the chances of a figure revealing effect are maximised?
I thought the reason that several Australian public swimming pools now offer gender specific nights was to accommodate muslim sensitivities in this area.
Jason
I don’t want to labor this becasue I’m still under SEDIION….errr sedation. However this is what I am reading up top. And I don’t think it was a mistake.
“Lately, I’ve been to the beach several times with female Muslim friends, some of whom lived most of their lives in countries far from the ocean, others who are strong swimmers, even when fully dressed and wearing hijab”
The gal is telling us her friends are taking to a surf beach, “…..who are strong swimmers, even when fully dressed and wearing hijab”
Now I may be “seditious” at the moment, but I can’t read this any other way.
Sh.t I lost me bathers once, in the current and these gals are wearing the full regalia, maybe even getting on a board and keeping the entire dress code fully operational and ready to fly at a moment’s notice!!!!???
Crikey!
An interesting side tangent to this conversation, Geoff. Auburn pool ran for years a women’s only morning which was used not only by Muslims but also non-religious women who simply didn’t feel comfortable swimming in a mixed environment.
It was stopped a few years ago after Alan Jones ran a successful public campaign against it.
Burqa
Hijab
I remember that particular incident, Liam. It’s ironic because you’d think that Alan would be partial to a bit of gender specificity himself.
Thanks Anna but my point wasn’t about a burqa/hijab confusion. It was about the unlikelihood of a practicing muslim woman plunging through the surf, fully dressed.
I know – the links are for Joe’s benefit, as he is still going on about not being able to see faces.
Perhaps there’s a Cathy Freeman style hijab for swimming?
Obvious problems below the neckline I’d think, Anna, though it would certainly be ideal for surfing.
I guess the question is does it bring them shia joy to go swimming on a sunni day.
Homer, you should try surfing in that clunky, unconvincing disguise. I promise I’ll call a lifeguard eventually………
Interesting that the near-lethal violence on display thus far was been initiated by Muslim Arab Lebanese – the two Skips stabbed on the night of the Muslim riot.
Please note that the use of the term ‘riot’ to describe what occurred at Cronulla is not accurate. There was a large and noisy demo, with several outbreaks of brawling. Less violent than many a ‘peace’ march I have seen. In riots, the damage is indiscriminate, cars get trashed, buildings smashed up, Churches burned etc. Cronulla showed no sign of that post-brawl. (Look at France for riots, or what occurred after the Muslim bovver boys came out of Lakemba Mosque the following night, all fired up by the Imam!)
And the demo-and-brawl at Cronulla was hardly racist, although (according to Darp) about 50 NF idiots were there trying to stir things up. The TV footage clearly shows all sorts of racial types there. The placement of the TV cameras in among the crowd all day shows that the level of violence was low. TV crews do NOT risk the gear.
The placement of TV cameras on the night of the Muslim riot shows that the media were very afraid of that mob. Every TV camera was well behind Police lines. The few images of it show it to be exclusively young Muslim Arabs, attacking anyone who was not a Muslim Arab. So exactly which was the ‘racist riot’? There was a severe imbalance in the video we all saw.
Finally, some good news. The parents of my Lebanese Arab Maronite mate probably saved a skippy that night. They live very near Lakemba. He was being chased by a heavily armed mob of Arab Muslims (Lebanese, Egyptians and two Moroccans). They managed to get him through the front door of their unit. By pretending to be Muslim himself, and with the help of an elderly South-East Asian Muslim neighbour, they were able to get the poor bugger away from the mob.
My mate is furious, ropeable about other events that night. There were a lot of attacks on Maronites by Muslims that night and since, none reported by the MSM of course. They are talking to the Tongans (also damned angry about the Muslim attack on their Church) and other harrassment and attacks by Arab Muslims on the Tongan community since.
There will be much more of this to come over the next few years. Get used to it. It is going to get worse, and the first indiscriminate murders of skips and Maronites by Muslims are not far way, according to the word in the Sydney Maronite, Melkite and Chaldean communities. The price of illegal pistols is soaring right now, and Lakemba is the market de jour.
It will be interesting to see how many ‘root causers’ and hand-wringing multicultis will be wandering the streets of Lakemba over the next few weeks after dark. Why do I suspect they actually know the score, and will keep well away? I’m going for a wander there after Christmas, but I’ll be with a bunch of Maronite friends. They’ll take me there in daylight, but between certain hours and not at night. Never at night, not in any sized group no matter how well armed. The Muslim gangs own Lakemba at night and it is a no-go area for the police.
Welcome to the fruits of the muliticulti dreaming.
MarkL
Canberra
Anna
Ok you won.
The Burqa thingy we can do without because seeing a coupla eye balls fluttering around in the black number would not make anyone curious.
But, the red hajib on that gal, well, yes I can see how a numbnut surfy dude could become a just lil’ curious specially if that same gal’s sporting it half hidden like that.
In fact I gunna suggest to my wife she wear something like that on the pretext that it’s the latest Bergdorf Goodman accessary. A fashion victim like her would try a paper bag around her head if it was designed by Mark Jacobs.
But still…. wearing it on a Sydney beach… naaaaa I’m not gunna go there again.
Remember the start of World War 1.This reminds me of that.They all went off to war looking for adventure,and found mass death.If you want a World War 2 anology,thence we would be somewhere around 1930,(we are entering the,we are about to be entertained bit).