Tim has a post on the NYT’s report that Bush signed an order allowing the NSA to spy on US citizens without a warrant, concluding that it “seems impossible for the president to avoid impeachment”. The case is made in more detail at Political Animal.
44 Responses to “Impeach Bush?”
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Chris, reading Tim’s post and Hilzoy’s it seems clear that a prima facie case for impeachment could be made, but as to whether it would have any chance in a Republican majority House of Representatives, one can’t be terribly hopeful.
cs I thought it worth posting the relevant law as linked to that article ie:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode50/usc_sec_50_00001809—-000-.html
I think Bush qualifies as ‘an officer or employee’ and federal jurisdiction has to mean it’s a federal offence which is prosecuted in federal as opposed to state courts.
In respect of impeachment, it has to be a lot worse than lying about a blow job (CL would probably disagree) but in ‘the affairs of men that lead on to a flood’ one could argue a lot of other reasons for impeachment such as deceiving Congress and killing 30/100K Iraqis in an illegal war, (torture, crimes against humanity, war crimes etc etc).
It will be interesting to see how this statutory crime pans out compared to ‘Plamegate’, another statute that Bush’s minions have been caught out on. Prima facie, executive power does not mean an exemption unless the legislation specifically says so. At least that is the situation in nations other than tin pot dictatorships.
Think mid terms in ‘06, If the Dems win control……………
I bet you a pre-dated warrant magically appears.
It’s a bit wild imagining scenarios. After, say, a 12 month media and inquiry dog-fight, punctuated by unprecedented mid-term anti-GOP swings, President George waves good-bye with a victory sign from the helicopter, having quit to stave off the inevitable, and holding his full pardon from President Cheney. A prize should be offered for the best essay on: ‘And what happens then?’
‘And what happens then?’
Cheney nukes Iran, among other things.
Peter
Plamegate? Do you actually know what Plamegate was about and what crime was suppoed to have been committed? You don’t because no one else does either. Libby wasn’t even accused of committing any offense directly related to Plamegate. He is accused of perjury, an offense the special prosecutor found through evidentary procedures in front of the Grand Jusy.
The Fitzchristmas (fitzgerald being the Spec. Pros.) the Treason party was hoping for amounted to the same thing as pissing into a hurricane.
This new accusation will go the way of all the other nonsense the American left along with it’s allies in the MSM is using to stab Bush during a time of war.
Good luck with this one too New Times.
Yes, Peter, Cheney represents a new twist on the Dan Quayle theory of avoiding being removed from office (by violence or impeachment).
Instead of merely appointing somebody incompetant to scare people into not getting rid of you, you have the person who was actually responsible for many of the misdeeds of the administration first in line to replace the guy nominally in charge.
In practice, you’d almost think that a post-2006 Democratic congress might be tempted to impeach Cheney too…
Robert
Yep. It’s the old one. A conservative is either stupid or evil. Take your pick. There’s a template for both options in the manual.
Oh, stop being as silly as the execrable NYT. They capture the bloke running an AQ communcations node. To exploit the time-perishable data found on the hard drives of his computers, the NSA is authorised (under the oversight of the Congressional Special Intelligence Committee) to listen to specific communications between AQ cell members in the USA and their overseas controllers. This results in the discovery and stopping of a number of AQ activities inside the USA which would have cost an unknown number of US citizens their lives. The AQ cell members are arrested.
For this Bush should be impeached, eh? Pull the other one, it plays jingle bells.
The real story here is who leaked this classified information to the press, timing it to influence the US senate vote on the ‘Patriot Act’. This reeks of a continuation of the ongoing conflict-by-leak between the CIA and the present US administration (and in part, the last one) - and surely such partisan politicking has no place in any government where it might result in one of these damned planned attacks being successful as a result. People who should know better are playing politics-by-leak with classified matter where the outcome could be a terrorist attack ‘getting through’. Irrespective of one’s politics, that is not good. And this behavior occurred durig the Clinton years, too.
I hope that questions are being asked in Washington as to the need for the CIA to be retained as an entity within the USIC. After eight years of this nonsense, perhaps the time has come to break the CIA up and distribute the bits that are worth anything among the rest of the USIC, and simply disband the rest.
MarkL
Canberra
Love this:
Several officials said the eavesdropping program had helped uncover a plot by Iyman Faris, an Ohio trucker and naturalized citizen who pleaded guilty in 2003 to supporting Al Qaeda by planning to bring down the Brooklyn Bridge with blowtorches. What appeared to be another Qaeda plot, involving fertilizer bomb attacks on British pubs and train stations, was exposed last year in part through the program, the officials said. But they said most people targeted for N.S.A. monitoring have never been charged with a crime, including an Iranian-American doctor in the South who came under suspicion because of what one official described as dubious ties to Osama bin Laden.
Plotting to bringing down the Brooklyn Bridge with blowtorches? How? With a dedicated group of suicide welders?
Gummo, it is a suspension bridge. What happens to a suspension bridge if one cuts the flipping cables?
But yes, shaped charges would be much better for the task.
See: http://www.endex.com/gf/buildings/bbridge/bbridgefacts.htm
for details of the design of this structure.
MarkL
canberra
No question. All Ohio truckers (with access to blowtorches) on illegal 24/7 watch now. We’re getting close Scotty. I knew Dick was on the money.
”The real story here is who leaked this classified information to the press,”
The New York Times sat on it for a year, actually. So it was leaked and held back at the request of the White House. Blame the NYT if you must MarkL for the timing, not the leaker.
And it is apparantly about snooping on thousands.
Shorter MarkL:
(1) ”Classified information” is a useful tool for hiding illegality.
(2) If only that idiot Nixon had ”classified” the Watergate break-in, all would have been sweet.
Gee Joe C it’s interesting to see you pull Philadelphia lawyer on a case not yet tried, let alone the likely probability of further indictments (probably Rove) and rather messy outcome for the Bushovics. You need to study some basic principles of causation and ask some fundamental questions ie why was Plame outed, who had the most motivation, the power and will to punish Joe Wilson. (It wasn’t his hairdresser BTW)
No doubt it will quickly become muddied, but on the face, the whole what? when? and who? looks sown up.
Peter K
Thanks for the heads up on the amazing story.
The New York Times has been sitting on this story for a year, which they run now because…… This is multiple choice ya hear
1.The Iraqi elections could possibly get good press, which of course means Bush and the Republicans gain traction for the mid terms next year.
2. A New Times writer just had his book published on domestic spying, which therefore needed some extra PR.
3 It was a non- story to begin with and there were no illegal activities despite using the word secret throughout the piece trying to convey illegalities.
4. Getting back at the Republicans for kicking off Pat Leahy out of the Senate Intelligence committee for leaking classified docs - a real story.
5. All of the above.
And the winner is…. number 5…. all of the above.
There’s as much chance this story gets traction as Mr. potato head becoming the new Santa.
Peter, you got stop reading and believing the New York Times. You are starting scare me dude.
Trot
Despite your clever diversion from want was splattered on the front pages today in Australia, domestic spying on goons attempting to commit mass murder is a good idea in the minds of most people. I am sure you read the front leads today explaining how those punks that were picked up Melbourne recently, just after parts of the sedition laws were passed through Parliament, were planning to kill our Prime Minister and take dozens more with him at a sporting event.
Peter, can I suggest it is not a good idea running with a story like this when our papers are running with such a story on the same day.
Peter, can I suggest it is not a good idea running with a story like this when our papers are running with such a story on the same day.
Just as I suspected. The “Impeach Bush” story has been sprung as another of the Rodent’s cunning diversions from the IR issue. Curses. Foiled again.
Quite a criminal class, the Repukes, with Tom Delay on moneylaundering charges (contrary to the electoral acts) and and bagman Abramoff indicted among others. Scooter Libby indicted and Karl Rove shitting his pants but WTF, another one pops up:
http://www.theunionleader.com/article.aspx?headline=Ex-GOP official guilty on 2 charges&articleId=43dafc9b-d86a-4eb5-94df-0b5065d16457
Disenfranchising people, Diebold ‘vote for Bush’ election machines, a plethora of dirty tricks, but they wouldn’t have been trying to steal elections would they Joe C?
Sorry that link didn’t work exactly the address being amile long, scroll down at that page to find it under politics.
Curse you Joe C - my clever diversion was working nicely until you came along. I had the entire voting population of Australia fooled until you showed up to blow the whistle on the whole scam.
Oh and the trouble with this whole domestic spying on goons business is that unless you have some system of checks and balances the spooks might start to run amok and start spying on a lot of people who aren’t goons at all. Shit, they might even start kidnapping the citizens of other countries and shipping them off to parts unknown for a little testicular electrification.
No traction in the story? With GWB on the nose with the majority of the US population, I don’t think so. Hell, he’s even on the nose with his own party, having been forced to climb down on Congress’ bill to outlaw the use of torture (or anything coming anywhere within cooee of it) by the US military and the CIA.
Meanwhile, at home here in Happy Valley, the Federal Court recently decided that an ASIO sponsored deportation was justified but hey can’t tell us why because of national security.
Peter
Now you really are starting to frighten me.
The DeLay and the New England Chairman stories have nothing to do with the NY Times.
These two stories are a good example of the tyranny occurring in the US, my friends. Yes, the tyranny of Democrat prosecutors throwing accusations around hoping they can inflict damage by abusing of the Legal system.
They are attempting to inflict damage hoping charges alone will stck. Here’s a new bold move, let’s see the Republicans do the same. As someone recently suggested why not go after that obese creature, Ted Kennedy, with a murder rap after all he did leave a young girl to drown under a bridge.
Trot, you should be up in arms about this new version of judicial abuse. That is , if you care about personal freedoms and liberty.
Trot.
It really was ironic wasn’t it, the same day the New Y Times is attempting to sully Bush again our papers have a lead referring to the good work our boys and gals did uncovering an attempt to mass murder by a few of the Prophet’s followers.
This is what the NYT is guilty of in ”leaking” so called ”classified information”. This is the newspaper of ”record” that also allowed ”run amok” Judith Miller to be used for neo-con propaganda purposes.
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/12/16/194744/78
What we are seeing with this latest relevation is the ongoing unravelling of the Bushovics. This administration will most likely go down in history as the most corrupt, incompetent and criminal in all US history, making Nixon’s crimes look like misdemeanours by comparison. From stealing elections to starting a war in Iraq for the benefit of corporate America is one thing. To turn America into a nation regarded suspiciously and/or hated by a significant part of the world while it subsides economically and militarily into impotence and isolationism will IMHO be the legacy of George Bush.
”Yes, the tyranny of Democrat prosecutors throwing accusations around hoping they can inflict damage by abusing of the Legal system.”
Not your spin of accusations Joe. Indictments are already on the record.
Shorter Joe C: Repukes can commit no crimes while prosecutors are Democrats.
Be frightened Joe. Quoting Tom Delay’s talking points does you no good at all: the Bushovics/Repukes are nearly fucked. Roll on the 2006 elections after which some serious ‘puking’ will be the order of the day.
Peter:
If you keep writing stuff like this, you’re going to scare little girls witless without even wearing a monster suit.
“…while it subsides economically and militarily into impotence and isolationism will IMHO be the legacy of George Bush…..”
Ummm lets see, and economy growing at an average rate of 3.8% for the last 3 years. Jobs market expanding. Tax receipts increasing and unexpectedly throwing all thoswe weird and strange deficti estimates out the bloody window. The Dollar is strengthening because the Fed had to raise rates in order to cool the economy down a little. Stock market doing really well this year.
The domestic defict at around 40% of GDP
Let’s pick a comparsion, my usual favourite- France.
Growth floundering at about 1% if that. Oh and this bit of news just in. The Frog Government is reporting that the Republic is broke with a deficit of of 200% of GDP. “We are broke. Done for, finished. The welfare state is dead”, is how one senior French offical described France.
So I will just pretend you didn’t the bit about the US is done for jst yet. Maybe in 5 hundred when you and I are old men.
I’m loving Joe C’s stuff. Tell us the one about how President Kennedy narrowly avoided assasination, or the one about how Germany won World War II.
Bill P
Attempt at humour coupled with facts can be devasting to an argument. Bill you have attempted humour by no facts. Neither do a thing to suppport your contrary assertion if there ever was one.
Dream on Joe C, with an $8 trillion debt that makes for some growth but the US economy awaits for Asian central bankers (who own most of that debt) to pull the plug one day.
Any nation with a combined approximate trillion dollar a year fiscal and trade deficit funded by the printing presses can grow, despite horrendous expenses such as the Iraq war, and leaving no millionaire behind, but when that plug is pulled, and it will be pulled, watch for a 50% correction in the USD as it slides into national economic depression.
Shorter Joe C: The smart way to guarantee economic growth is to keep those dollar printing presses rollin’ rollin’.
Anyway we can leave that for history to decide, how about responding to the main issues I raised re the NYT and/or the general criminality of the Bushovics?
Well Joe, I’d say with humour on his side, Bill is one up on you.
Peter:
If you are so concerned about civil liberties then show, just show me one simple paragraph you and Trot for that matter you wrote when the Clinton administration was found with 500 FBI files on Republicans that Hillary casually found in the West Wing. If you do that I will take for a serious person. If you can’t then no one can take your seriously because your feigned concern about civil liberties is simply bankrupt.
Peter:
There’s an old expression on Wall Street all armchair economists ought to take in stride when taking stock of the US economy. Never undersell the potential of the US consumer. Too many people have lost fortunes crying Chicken Little.
You can’t combine the external deficit with the domestic balance and say it is a meaningful number it isn’t. It’s like going into a fruit shop adding the total number of oranges and apples together coming up with $100 value and then telling everyone what you have done. It has meaningless significance.
Peter, you said this:
“Watch for a 50% correction in the USD as it slides into national economic depression”.
Peter, I’m a currency trader by profession and this year (in fact I have made my whole year, that’s why I am a little more active on blogs these days) most traders started the year (05) with the overwhelming expectation the US Doll was heading south in a big way. In fact it went the other way.
People don’t look at current a/c deficits as a harbinger to currency direction. There are many reasons to sell or buy currencies. The prime one is whether investing in a particular currency compared to another fulfills total return expectations. The US doll this year and most probably next is looking good again.
I am going to remind you of your prediction at the end of 06.
It is no use talking big numbers like saying the US is 8 trillion in debt when you aren’t putting it into any context. The only way to do that is by expression as a ratio to GDP. The US is now an US$12 trillion economy. There doesn’t seem to be any ration way out of line.
The printing presses.
Yes that is a little concerning for most of the G20 countries but the US is not spewing out any more inflationary pump priming than say Japan or the US. IF the were the long end of the bond would be taking a hit. In fact the long end has been fairly well behaved and looks set to offer investors some good returns, as yield will probably drop. If the was massive liquidation as you suggestion the long end of the bond market would be showing signs of distress. It isn’t and in fact it is showing to opposite.
There are signs of inflationary pulses through the world but the US is showing the least signs. Next time take a look the gold price expressed in each currency to see where the problems are. Japan and Europe are the problem by using gold as the numeraire
Didn’t spell check, as I have to pick to kid up.
Seeya and good luck with your spite problem.
Joe,
It would be rather difficult for for Peter to show you a paragraph I wrote don’t you think? And I can’t show you one for the very simple reason that I wasn’t blogging during the Clinton administration. All I have to say on Clinton is that if the Republicans seriously wanted to impeach him, they should have gone after him on Somalia instead of Monicagate. but that might have set an unpleasant precedent, I suppose.
“Republicans seriously wanted to impeach him, they should have gone after him on Somalia instead of Monicagate. but that might have set an unpleasant precedent, I suppose”
Why over Somalia? He chicken hawked out of there. That wasn’t impeachable unless you know something I don’t.
The constitution talks about serious crimes and misdemenors in order to impeach.
Oh by the way this spying you and the scary dude are talking about was approved and most certainly known by the senate intelligence committee that Democrats sat on. Jay Rockefellar is on the committee. Impeach Bush. Let’s keep dreaming.
Joe C
Re ”500 FBI files on Republicans that Hillary casually found in the West Wing.”
Where did I say the Democrats were saints? In any case how about a link to show criminality of (for example) of Clinton’s illegal spying.
”Never undersell the potential of the US consumer.”
Who consume thanks to the savings of the rest of the world purchasing American debt, (which is also the process of propping up an over-valued dollar.)
”external deficit with the domestic balance…oranges and apples” Your claims of growth, ignore the economic big picture deficits which in essence fund that growth, —laughable to say the least, as it’s all economics. USD being the world’s reserve currency (for the present) has a special significance supporting the whole crumbling edifice which you just wilfully ignore.
In any event currency traders being like bookmakers with risk and ”odds” may make safe predictions on currency values short term but are obviously not infalliable long term. Hedging is simply a form of gambling. (I should be charging you for advice on longer term trends.?)
So, apart from Hilliary’s alleged find, which doesn’t mitigate the Bushovic criminality, that and the NYT’s perfidy are issues you’d rather not engage in, ie this thread?
Meantime in an attempt to restore the thread, the Bushovics having denied spying on citizens without legal authority for 24 hours, have come out truculently not only admitting it but have defended it as ”critical to saving American lives”–a piece of bilge if ever there self serving garbage when one considers the expenditure of some 2100 military lives on an illegal war, the victims of hurricane Katrina etc etc.
This has the story:
Never one to contradict himself, this is what Bush said on 16/12 at
Lies, obfuscation, greed, distortions, spin, incompetence, stupidity and criminality. Plain for all to see as the modus operandi of the Bushovics.
In respect of spite:
Shorter Joe C: ”Your honour the defence rests solely not on argument in my client’s favour, but on the assertion I make that the prosecution is full of spite.”
I’m shouldn’t link this Joe C as you never seem to link your arguments/assertions, let alone dig for the information apparently.
http://sify.com/news/fullstory.php?id=14051879
To refute your ”they knew it all argument” do you really think the NSA spilled their guts on the extent of their activities?:
Peter:
“Where did I say the Democrats were saints”?
Ok, so you’re not being selective in your dislike. You hate all of them. Now that’s established we have a clearer picture on things.
However, did you make formal note of this sacadal at the time like you are feigning about the Bush Administration. After all it’s easy to be “appalled” about something which happned ten years ago knowing it has dick squat significance only as a way to hit Bush over the head.
Peter, impeachment is not just a legal process. In fact it’s a political process which the Dems would try only if the wanted to self- detonate and that mob is into self- preservation in a big way. Hell they’d sell the place down the river if it meant they hold on to power. That’s what the treason party lives for. Power.
“that and the NYT’s perfidy are issues you’d rather not engage in, ie this thread?”
Ok, so go read the multiple-choice questions again.
“USD being the world’s reserve currency (for the present) has a special significance supporting the whole crumbling edifice which you just wilfully ignore”.
Peter, a crumbling edifice? In your dreams. In 500 years time you will be saying the same thing to me up there in heaven (as I see you trying to squeeze through the pearly gates while I flick the remote just in time to see you not making in again.
Peter:
You know what your trouble is, it seems you are a lawyer. There’s one in this house training to be one, unfortunately, who seems to suffer the same idiosyncratic style of debating. Frankly its disturbing seeing people go through years of training and reach a level of understanding less than when they went to uni. I am often advising to give it away before suffering permanent brain damage. I think it’s the reading material. Anything so dull and boring as legal books must be causing damage the medical profession doesn’t know about as yet.
One last thing, thanks for the advice on the Dollar, however I must warn that someone once said don’t worry about the long-term as we are all dead.
Back to the issue on hand. This a non-story.
You know what your trouble is Joe C, you are a currency speculator. Looking at numbers on a screen all the time must surely addle the brain!
Where’s the scandal Joe, you haven’t linked so I’m dubious as to the validity– another of your selective distortions perhaps?
Shit, and I forgot to condemn Nixon as well, and Lucretia Borgia, Ghenghis Khan and first Emperor Huangdi of the Ch’in Dynasty.
Back to the issue on hand. This a non-story.
Helluva non-story, being carried on all the world’s media outlets. Guess they really must all be non-media outlets, you know, given the way they’re all writing so many non-stories about this matter. Josh Marshall is also good value.
CS
Did you miss the multiple choice question I left for Kemp. You’re allowed to do it to, you know. It was’t left there just for him.
Most definitely another non story cs, doubtless from a non-existing Republican per:
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/1217-02.htm
If cs’s track record is any guide, the 28th Amendment will repeal the 22nd and Bush will be elected to a third term.
Shorter joe c: Yore a hippocrat, Peter. Hitla done worse thun Bush, nyah nyah. Yoo a nazi supportarh.
Peter;
You may actually find the story ,although at first looking shaky for Bush, may be a bug that bites the Dems badly in the butt on Monday. I watched a Dem Senator on the US weekend programs and seems to be retreating at a 100 mph from the story.
You are legal eagle. Bush has had the DOJ, his own internal counsel, various counsel from the agencies involved all give opinion in the affirmative. In addition the idea that Senate Dems who were consulted on this operation did not get their own legal advice is quite frankly startling to say the least.
I suggest that you do your lawyerly best and wait for for better opinion on this before you go shooting ducks again. Just simple advice from a simple person. and no links please. I read and seen enough.
Damn. I forgot the bizarre punctuation thing.
Shorter joe c, take two: Peter ,you legal eagle. Me Jane.
If cs’s track record is any guide, the 28th Amendment will repeal the 22nd and Bush will be elected to a third term.
So, if you blog with links to a story RWDB’s don’t like, you have a track record! Of what? Blogging with links to stories RWDB’s don’t like. I plead guilty of having unwittingly turned on the moron-magnet.
Joe, I don’t do multiple choice, I write essays. Speaking of which, perhaps you will be good enough to define ‘traction’ in the following extract from your copious self, in 100 words or less:
There’s as much chance this story gets traction as Mr. potato head becoming the new Santa.