Comments on: Rock culcha – with live nude girls!

By: Mark

Mark — Thu, 12 Jan 2006 13:01:54 +0000

That’s a fabulous post, roseg.

By: roseg

roseg — Thu, 12 Jan 2006 12:44:49 +0000

I’m reminded of a docco I saw last year on the ABC called Rockbitch or something like that. Bunch of wymyyn who are into music, sex, love, empowerment, yadda yadda. It was one of the saddest things I ever saw. In theory I support the idea of porn and burlesque and sex work and anything anyone wants to buy or sell. But I always feel conflicted when confronted with it – a while ago I wrote about suicide girls in my blog to try express this ambivalence.

http://randomselections.blogspot.com/2005/11/suicide-blonde.html

Even if they’re well paid, empowered, educated etc they’re still promoting and perpetuating the idea that women’s bodies are things to be leered at and fetishised – consumer products as you say. And something about that feels really old and yuk irrespective of who’s doing the selling.

By: Kim

Kim — Tue, 10 Jan 2006 15:48:34 +0000

And just treating the thing as a consumer product, which is basically what it is, the claim on one of the links that the photography’s poor quality is unfair. Some if not most of the sets are excellent and often the conception (in terms of context, situation, storyline) is very good too. Some aren’t so fab. But you have to remember that some of the sets are self-shot or shot by friends rather than pros.

By: Kim

Kim — Tue, 10 Jan 2006 15:38:40 +0000

It’s a good point, fxh, and you may well be right. I was kinda getting there with my “it’s not a feminist utopia” thing. Putting one’s hopes in something that exists basically for profit is usually misguided.

I still reckon the show may well be worth seeing.

By: fxh

fxh — Tue, 10 Jan 2006 14:15:23 +0000

kim – I’m guessing my point is something about why would it end up being any different to most other porn sites/ activities. Sleazy scamming guys, naive neurotic women, drugs, exploitation and homage to the (mainstream) male gaze.

And it isnt any different in the end.

By: Kim

Kim — Tue, 10 Jan 2006 13:56:05 +0000

Here's another perspective from Dramawhores.

By: Kim

Kim — Tue, 10 Jan 2006 13:49:55 +0000

Oh well, the post I was looking for has gone. I’m sure if someone went to the trouble they could find the other side of the story. But I’m content to trust what Twwly had to say about the integrity of the site since she’s an intelligent feminist and someone I’ve had online interaction with before whose integrity I believe in.

My recollection was that the story was that they’d been subjected to attack marketing by sleazoids setting up competitor sites and luring some of their models away and stirring them up and promising them the world at the same time. Like I said, it’s capitalism not a tea party.

On that index, you can judge it by the quality of the product and also the fact that they seem to have very little turnover among their models and lots of new ones all the time. Presumably that indicates they’re doing something right.

By: fxh

fxh — Tue, 10 Jan 2006 13:44:28 +0000

Laura Says:
October 2nd, 2005 at 6:29 pm

As a former suicide girl who left the site 2 years ago, I’ll say that SG is run like a family… a very dysfunctional family where whatever the “father�? says goes, and the women and children keep silent. I thought it would be a great outlet to express myself in ways I felt closed off from beforehand… nudity never meant a whole lot to me but art has. However, that pipe dream was obliterated with really bad pictures and little control over what I really wanted to be on the site, among other things. It’s about time other women are leaving. And it’s true, in a sense, that they are a symptom of a social disease. Hopefully this walking away is a symptom of a cure… perhaps even a true future for the feminist movement.

By: Kim

Kim — Tue, 10 Jan 2006 13:44:21 +0000

My point about the market is that perhaps they can’t afford to pay the models more. Although I’ve heard from someone who enquired that it was closer to a thousand bucks. A lot of the women use the site as a springboard for developing their own businesses – eg web design, or as an advertisement for their modelling or photography skills to break into professional careers, or just sell stuff via ebay to admirers. Like I said, it’s not meant to be a women’s utopia but a business and the owners and staff also have to make a living from it. Personally, I’ve always found the feel of the site very friendly as online communities go, and the mini-explosion was uncharacteristic. You also can’t discount some element of prima donna-ism.

By: Kim

Kim — Tue, 10 Jan 2006 13:41:10 +0000

Well, FXH, it’s a commercial website not a naked feminist knitting circle collective. I suspect the market for what they sell isn’t massive compared to standard porn, and the membership is pretty cheap (and good value). It’s always hard to make sense from afar of competing rumours. This Sean guy sounds like he might be a dropkick, if Sicily (who’s saying he behaved that way) is right. But who can judge? There’s nary a workplace without personality conflicts. There is another side to the story, which I’ll post. Just hunting down some links.

By: fxh

fxh — Tue, 10 Jan 2006 13:32:05 +0000

Suicide Girls Quit The Site, Charging Exploitation and Male-Domination

http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2005/09/28/suicide-girls-quit-the-site-charging-exploitation-and-male-domination

First, problems between management and models; second, rumors that an FBI porn squad “cracked down” on SG, ordering the to take down certain images
http://www.boingboing.net/2005/09/28/suicide_girls_rumord.html

The Ugly Side of “Alternative�? Porn by Andrea Rubenstein [tekanji] @ 10:19 am
http://blog.shrub.com/?p=56

SuicideGirls revolt
Close to 40 of the punk-rock-porn models walk off the site
BY DEIRDRE FULTON

http://www.bostonphoenix.com/boston/news_features/other_stories/documents/05016155.asp

By: Kim

Kim — Tue, 10 Jan 2006 13:23:12 +0000

Shaun, check out the dvd promo.

FXH – there was a lot of discussion of that stuff on the site a few months ago. Suicide Girls is run by women. It seems what was happening was some imitator sites (run by men) were trying to lure models across and starting all sorts of nasty rumours. It seemed to sort itself out.

By: FXH

FXH — Tue, 10 Jan 2006 12:59:52 +0000

Isn’t it so that the Suicide Girls web/push/movement is rife with political splits and accusations of rip offs and the discovery (surprise surprise) of just your plain old male porno sleaze ripping off gullible grrls – its just that this time they are gothy looking with tatts and bits of metal piercings all over.

By: wbb

wbb — Tue, 10 Jan 2006 11:49:59 +0000

Well actually, it was me old jammin’ pardner, Lou Reed who should share in the love here. I first heard Antony singing backup for Lou in Melbourne a couple of years ago. The reverence with which Lou introduced Antony for an acapella solo of “Pale Blue Eyes” was touching.

By: Shaun Cronin

Shaun Cronin — Tue, 10 Jan 2006 11:49:04 +0000

Ok, I was getting caught in the spam filter. That explains the confusion of the past 10 minutes.

By: Shaun Cronin

Shaun Cronin — Tue, 10 Jan 2006 10:57:37 +0000

So what is so attractive about rock culcha with live nude girls? Apart from the obvious, too numerous to mention reasons? I do remember a band in LA that always had a stipper perform on stage during their set. It is a rock'n'roll tradition as old as Chuck Berry. I've been hearing a lot about Antony and The Johnsons. I subscribe (blatant plug) to Emusic and have downloaded-legally I should mention- 'I Am a Bird' along with a live Dio (80s metal god) album an an Elizabeth Cotton (legendary blues/folk artist) with my monthly allotment.

By: Mark

Mark — Tue, 10 Jan 2006 09:59:07 +0000

I've seen the DVD and will no doubt be there! In other Brisvegas culcha news, my friend E and I are going to see Antony & the Johnsons at the Tiv soon - I mention this because I first discovered the wonders of the said artist through the blogosphere - hat tip to wbb for the initial headsup.