Ole, ole ole ole

I’ve picked my fantasy football team, I’ve got my wallchart, I’ve read the FourFourTwo guide to the World Cup and I’ve got my scarf. All I need to do now is wait.

It’s hard to share your excitement about sport with people who just don’t care. It’s also hard to keep telling people that there are some very interesting political and social aspects to football when they think you’re just trying to intellectualise a SPORT. But, for those who have a secret admiration for the game of real football and want something to read before the World Cup, I offer you a reader’s guide to football. (And this list is by no means exhaustive).

1. Football Against the Enemy – Simon Kuper
If you only read one football book, or so the saying goes, make it this one. The author travelled to 22 countries looking at the political and social effects of football. It’s well written, it’s entertaining, it’s flabbergasting. Read it.

2. Sheilas, wogs & poofters – Johnny Warren
If the ‘Socceroos’ need any inspiration they should read this book. Johnny Warren’s story of football in Australia. (Actually, I don’t imagine they will be reading much, but you know what I mean).

3. Fever Pitch – Nick Hornby
Ok, it’s the cliché football book but it’s a good read and really does explain how and why some people just can’t live without football.

4. The Faber Book of Soccer – Ian Hamilton ed.
Contains the Camus essay that includes his famous quote:

Camus

Someone in the park told me that Camus couldn’t possibly have said that. I quickly corrected them. Also includes work by Nabakov, J.B. Priestley, Orwell, A. J. Ayer and Pinter.

5. A Season with Verona – Tim Parks
The Azzuri will no doubt feature heavily come this June. Their swarthy looks, their tight shirts, their melodramatic protestations and diving. Learn all about Serie A from Parks.

6. Gazza Italia – Ian Hamilton
Paul Gascoigne. Such a talent. Such a waste. Such a nutcase. Not many brains but a genius for football. Hamilton’s extended essay (first published in Granta) is a gem. If you ever wonder why people idolise dumb-as-a-box-of-hammers sportspeople, read this.

7. Out of his skin: the John Barnes Phenomenon – Dave Hill
John Barnes played for Liverpool. He was also black and had to suffer the indignity of having bananas thrown at him. In the 80s. And it still happens.

8. The Beautiful Team: In search of Pele and the 1970 Brazilians – Garry Jenkins
Considered by many to be the best Brazilian team of all time (and THAT’S a call), the 1970 team took the World Cup and in some style. Some are comparing the current team to the 1970 vintage. Personally, I’m hoping they’ll choke.

9. Barca: a people’s passion – Jimmy Burns
They won the Champions League last night and they are a club that means more than the football they play. And they are quite possibly the only top-flight team in the world that does not have a shirt sponsor. They don’t need to, they’re Barca.

10. Outfitters of choice for the football intelligentsia: Philosophy Football.

Cross-posted on Stack

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75 Responses to “Ole, ole ole ole”


  1. 1 calNo Gravatar

    oops- sorry I thought this was a Ole Gunnar Solskjaer worship thread.

    my mistake!

  2. 2 JCNo Gravatar

    The horrid game of soccer ought to be banned world wide. It’s a disgustingly boring game that seems to bring the worst emotions out of people causing death a dstruction. At a toubled time like this in world affairs, the best thing that could happen is that we simply said enough, we don’t want to this game to be allowed to continue. Ban it. Ban soccer. it kills.

  3. 3 KimNo Gravatar

    I don’t know much about soccer. I do know that “Footballers’ Wives” was a terrible show. Just sayin…

  4. 4 JCNo Gravatar

    I don’t know much about soccer.

    Keep it that way, Kimsa. You’ll be a happier camper.

  5. 5 GeorgNo Gravatar

    Of course, you are entitled to your (rather strong) opinion about football JC. I doubt though that you have played or coached at a grassroots level where football does quite the opposite of ‘kill’. Perhaps you should direct your ire at boxing, now that really does kill.

  6. 6 AmandaNo Gravatar

    Yay Georg. I am excited too. I’m sure all the Socceroos get all the inspiration they need when they think of Johnny Warren. Wish he could see this.

    More football philosophy

  7. 7 haikuNo Gravatar

    In another thread somewhere I might have posed the question, “What is it about RWDBs and football?”. Are these the same types who sneer at “elites”?

    Anyway, JC, if you don’t want to know the score, look away now …

    Like you, Georg, I can’t wait. For web-based reading, check out Planet World Cup

  8. 8 haikuNo Gravatar

    Bugger. Type http://www.planetworldcup.com into your browser …

  9. 9 Bring Back EPNo Gravatar

    the two best teams to play in the world cup were the 54 Hungarians with Puskas and the 74 Dutch with the greatest player of all time Cruyff.

    ironically neither won and both lost in controversial circumstances to West Germany

  10. 10 GeorgNo Gravatar

    I agree BBEP, especially about the Dutch. The birth of total football..if only I were old enough to have seen it all unfold. It just goes to show, the best team does not always win. Something I adore about football. Gives the Australians some vague hope of an upset.

  11. 11 Bring Back EPNo Gravatar

    glorious football and I was old enough to watch them in 74.
    They had a reasonable defence which Brazil in 70 didn’t.

  12. 12 ZoeNo Gravatar

    Yay football. I am very excited.

    and JC – we’ll be having a lot more fun that you over the weeks to come.

  13. 13 MindyNo Gravatar

    If someone could explain the offside rule to me that would be great.

  14. 14 GeorgNo Gravatar

    The offside rule is this: at all times there must be two players from the opposing team between you and the goal line. One of course will always be the goal keeper. The confusion arises due to the time at which the rule applies. It doesn’t apply when a player receives a ball, it is applied when the ball is kicked to the player, or ‘when the ball is kicked’ as they say. There is also confusion brought about by the ‘passive offside’ consideration. A player can be deemed to not be offside even if they are standing in an offside position if they are ‘not interferring with play’. How this is intepreted is up to the referee and can sometimes be very contentious. Also, a player can not be offside when in their own half or when receiving the ball directly from a throw-in.

    Did that clear it up? No, I didn’t think so…

  15. 15 GeorgNo Gravatar

    Or refer to this highly sexist explanation.

    I forgot one other thing: level with the player is onside.

  16. 16 LiamNo Gravatar

    The best explanation of the offside rule I’ve ever heard was a coach who argued that it

    stops strikers hanging around the goalmouth, alone and hopeful, like middle-aged perverts.

    Inadequate in detail, yes, but succinct and clear.

  17. 17 MindyNo Gravatar

    Thank you Georg and Liam, that does make it a bit clearer. I thought it had something to do with being behind the ball, so got mighty confused when someone was called offside with no ball in sight.

  18. 18 MindyNo Gravatar

    Highly sexist, but wittily written.

  19. 19 michael GNo Gravatar

    Hooray. Hooray.

    I’m only afraid that the World Cup is going to plunge me back into the T.V addiction i worked so hard to ‘get clean’ from.

    JC: To rip off a worn-out old RWDB phrase, ‘Football doesn’t kill people, on ocassions in the past football fans have caused the death of other football fans.’ Im certain that many other sports share the same black history. None however, have a greater claim to being the sport of global peace and co-operation in the 21st Century. Football is virtually the only sport in which the whole world comes together, where political enemies put aside their differences for at least 90 minutes.

    http://www.thefa.com/TheFA/InternationalRelations/NewsAndFeatures/Postings/2004/07/Football_4Peace.htm
    http://www.fifa.com/en/development/index/0,1219,103359,00.html?articleid=103359
    http://www.streetfootballworld.org/Projects/Project.2004-06-30.0338446310/p_news/News.2005-12-07.9168657972/en

    I know you’ll hate this, but Football is like the U.N. It faces an incredibly difficult global environment, its members are often people who undermine its actions and inevitably it has screw-ups as well as sucesses. But ultimately it offers hope. Without football the world might find itself being ‘liberated’ by the NFL, the NBA and the MLC (actually i’m starting to get into baseball.)

  20. 20 michael GNo Gravatar

    In this spirit – and not bein aware of any spruiking restrictions id like to draw all your attention to “playing fields not minefields”, a more than worthy campaing being run by the NGO Australians For the Care of Refugees (AUSTCARE.) Disclaimer: I volunteer with these guys

    http://www.austcare.org.au/WaysToSupport/PlayingFieldsNotMinefields.htm

  21. 21 JCNo Gravatar

    “If someone could explain the offside rule to me that would be great.”

    Mindy, the offside rule allows an opposing side the gain access to the ball without having to work that hard for it. It’s kind of like the lefty philosophy of fairness and equality. If the other side are useless wusses, offside allows them to cut the other side down to size without having to work too hard for the ball. In other words, the fairness crapola- this time in “sport”.

    I of ocurse will be cheering for oz to lose and lose very badly from the very start of this hateful competition. The reason is that success at soccer seem to be directly inverse to a nations GDP
    and the general standard of living. Doing well could condemn us to years and years of economic stagnation until we can prove we are rotten at the hate filled game. Here’s keeping my finger crossed.

    Homer I am surprised at you quite frankly. It ’s not waspy to like soccer. The world must be going to hell when a wog like me points out the hatefullness of this disgusting while a wasp supports it. Grow up Homer.

  22. 22 JCNo Gravatar

    Michael G

    While I agree that a soccer ball doesn’t kill people, people kill people, there is on occasion the need to take precaution in life. In other words playing and teaching a sport to kids that has a death cult attached should at the very least be treated like cig smoking.

    How about vivid warning labels and age restrictions- say no one under 45 ought to be allowed to participate in this horid, squalid game.

  23. 23 GuidoNo Gravatar

    The FIFA site has an animated explanation of the offside rule.

    I hope the link will work

    http://www.fifa.com/imagesnew/en/laws_flash.jpg

    Offside rule is to ensure that defenders just don’t stand all match in front of goals just blocking balls all day. Off course this can still happen in world football, but the ability of break this down is part and parcel of the game.

    Other sports which don’t have such rules (Hockey I think also has offside) sometime have problems if a team wants to play negatively.

    For instance there has been lots of talk about ‘flooding’ in Australian Rules. So much so that teams such as Essendon and the Western Bulldogs have asked Ernie Merrick, the Melbourne Victory manager, to come to talk to them about strategies how to counteract flooding.

  24. 24 michael GNo Gravatar

    Does this mean I can ban American football for encouraging short attention spans in under 10s?

    Death cult? (Much as i hate to inflame the islamaphobes) maybe you should go and hang out for a while with some real death cults

    http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/comment-beichman062003.asp

    and then come back and tell us about the irreparable damage football is doing to the planet.

    BTW, football without offside, would be just as boring as…no, i’m not going there again.

  25. 25 GuidoNo Gravatar

    The link did not work

    try this one and scroll down to the button that states:

    ‘Click here for interactive guide to law 11

    http://www.fifa.com/en/regulations/regulation/0,1584,3,00.html

    Also JC:
    “The reason is that success at soccer seem to be directly inverse to a nations GDP
    and the general standard of living

    By Checking the FIFA rankings we got the Netherlands at number three, the USA at number five, France at Number eight and England at number ten.

    Now considering that the USA, France and England (well the UK) are part of the G7 and the Netherlands is not exactly struggle city when it comes to standards o living I am not sure your theory holds up.

    Of course what this proves that soccer (and I am happy to call it that) is a game that can be played almost anywhere where there is a bit of an open space, from a courtyard in Brazil, to a dusty field in Marocco, to a icy paddock in Germany. That is why is such a popular game.

  26. 26 JCNo Gravatar

    Michael G

    It’s a good thing it was you that brought up Islamic extremists in this thread. I wanted to stay away.

    Ever asked yourself why is it that every Islamic nutjob around seem to be crazy soccer fans? Bin Laden a mad supporter… and on and on.

    It’s the game. It brings out thr worst in people as well as bringing out the worst people.

  27. 27 GeorgNo Gravatar

    Sure, Bin Laden was a fan. But let’s face it, what other sport do you think he would have followed? Soccer is the ONLY sport in a lot of the world. Just because a couple of nutjobs follow it doesn’t mean it’s a ‘death cult’. Sheer weight of numbers is going to bring out some nutjobs. Those liberal Scandinavians are also big followers…

  28. 28 Bring Back EPNo Gravatar

    JC,

    it is a perfectly respectable conservative position to support football, globalisation of sport and all that.

    It is left wing to support xenophobic sports whether they are Aussie rules of gridiron or de facto ones such as the rugger bugger codes

  29. 29 GeorgNo Gravatar

    No worries Naomi. I have a confession to make though, he actually said ’sport’, not football. The people at Philosophy Football took the liberty of changing it. He was talking about football though, it is an essay about his days as a goalkeeper in Algeria. (Hence the green shirt – it also ‘Camus’ and ‘1′ on the back).

  30. 30 FaceLiftNo Gravatar

    Football interupts wars, actually, JC, as in the first WW, when English and German troops stopped the war one Christmas for a game.

    Presumably Islamic extremeists also brush their teeth, wash behind their hears and comb their hair. According to your logic that would mean toothpaste, soap and combs bring out the worse in people.

    Or maybe soccer helps bring people together despite their differences.

  31. 31 michael GNo Gravatar

    Club Troppo, these days, is an interesting example of the intellectual and the sporting coming together.

    And right on Guido, the equality of opportuniy associated with football and progressive politics, is something to be celebrated. I would add though that the FIFA rankings are notoriously dodgy – The U.S are very fotunate to be in the top 10. There is another ranking systme which I can’t remember but i’m sure someone will come up with.

    JC: Is there any other sport you could even make such a comparative claim about?

  32. 32 JCNo Gravatar

    Naomi Stay away from the game it will ruin your life.

    Georg, try rehab in getting over this shocking addiction

    Homer, get a life. You’re a WASP, what the frig are you doing supporting this wog ball. As I said grow up, Homer.

  33. 33 GuidoNo Gravatar

    Ahh… JC you are such a stirrer! :)

  34. 34 Bring Back EPNo Gravatar

    Homer, great grandson of the first Greek immigrant to come to these shores.
    1/8th genuine wog

  35. 35 GuidoNo Gravatar

    Just as an aside over the football vs. soccer argument watch this ad from ESPN….I found it somewhat amusing

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3blMS-PaloQ

  36. 36 JCNo Gravatar

    Face lift

    It also starts wars. Two countries in south Am had a war over a disputed result.

  37. 37 Bring Back EPNo Gravatar

    Guido, it is indeed amusing

  38. 38 ZoeNo Gravatar

    Which countries, JC? And when?

  39. 39 FaceLiftNo Gravatar

    All football codes have their origins in ancient ball games, or games played withan inflated pigss bladder, or similar. Soccer is the most accuratley called football game, since it is predominantly the use of the feet which propels the ball. Rugby, AFL & Gridiron also involves the propulsion of the ball by use of the hands.

    Like JC, Shakespeare appears to have had a dislike of football:

    King Lear contains the line: “Nor tripped neither, you base football player”

    & from Comedy of Errors:

    ‘Am I so round with you as you with me,
    That like a football you do spurn me thus?
    You spurn me hence, and he will spurn me hither:
    If I last in this service, you must case me in leather.

    “Spurn” literally means to kick away, thus implying that the game involved kicking a ball between players.’ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football

  40. 40 Jason SoonNo Gravatar

    Paxton, you’re kidding, right? You don’t look the least bit Greek to me.

  41. 41 GeorgNo Gravatar

    JC, if you’re referring to the war between Honduras and El Salvador in 1969 I think you’ll find they didn’t go to war over a result. It was a little more complicated than that.

  42. 42 Steve EdneyNo Gravatar

    JC refers to the Football War I think.

  43. 43 Bring Back EPNo Gravatar

    Jason,
    I am not kidding. You need to go on an odyssey to realise my Greek heritage.
    Why else would I have been named Homer?

  44. 44 djNo Gravatar

    JC, you do know that the word soccer comes from Association Football, the rules of which were formed in England, don’t you?

    I am going to Germany in July, I am very disappointed I could’t be there in June, I could have seen all countries that I have a connection to (Australia, England, Germany) playing and I would have loved to try and get to see the Brazilian team play.

  45. 45 djNo Gravatar

    The only rule change I would like to see is a drop-off extra time with a ‘golden goal’, instead of normal extra time and especially penalty shootouts. Maybe unlimited subbing and drop player off the field every two minutes or so until you get down to seven. Would be interesting to see how many results you got within the first ten minutes.

  46. 46 Jason SoonNo Gravatar

    ‘Why else would I have been named Homer? ‘

    If you were my age I would’ve said maybe you were named after Homer Simpson but I guess you’re right

  47. 47 LiamNo Gravatar

    The Simpsons started in 1989, Jason. That makes you seventeen.

  48. 48 JCNo Gravatar

    dj

    Yes I do know the horrid game has English origins. So what? Not every British export has been a good thing. Look at 7/8s of Homer for instance.

  49. 49 Bring Back EPNo Gravatar

    Victorian England had two great exports.
    football and cricket.

    Last year we had the ashes and the Uruguay game.
    This year the world Cup and the Ashes again!

  50. 50 Jason SoonNo Gravatar

    ‘The Simpsons started in 1989, Jason. That makes you seventeen’
    D’oh!! Alright, scratch that comment …

  51. 51 Bring Back EPNo Gravatar

    he looks 17

  52. 52 djNo Gravatar

    So JC, don’t you think some of those guys at the rules meeting(s) might have been WASPs? Pretty good chance, don’t ya think?

  53. 53 JCNo Gravatar

    Go back to the 7/8s of Homer example, for my reply.

  54. 54 djNo Gravatar

    So, what you are saying, is that after characterising it as ‘wogball’ that should be avoided by WASPs and all other right-thinking tighty-whities, you are just trolling and have no substantial point to make. Cheers, thanks for clearing that up!

  55. 55 haikuNo Gravatar

    Already covered above but here’s some more on the offside rule:

    If you are behind the ball when it is played, you are not offside.

    If the ball is being thrown in, you cannot be offside.

    If the assistant ref or indeed the ref judges that you are not “interfering with play”, you can be deemed not to be offside (newish and controversial at times).

    If you are in your own half, you cannot be offside.

    To be onside, you must have two opposition players either level with you, or between you and the goal, when the ball is played by a member of your own team.

    One of these will usually be the keeper, and so the rule often becomes “level with the last defender at the moment the ball is played forward by a team-mate”.

    But I have seen a keeper come up for a corner in a frantic last-minute attack; our team went on the break, our striker got caught out for offside despite being behind the last defender, he then launched into a ferocious tirade at the ref, then realised the problem of the absent keeper and was apologising profusely as the ref sent him off!

    Go on, JC, keep feeding us reasons to talk about the World Cup! :-)

  56. 56 JCNo Gravatar

    Go on take a look
    Every country that’s won a cup is or eventually goes to economci ruin.

    1966 England
    1970 Brazil
    1974 West Germany
    1978 Argentina
    1982 Italy
    1986 Argentina
    1990 West Germany
    1994 Brazil
    1998 Frogs
    2002 Brazil

    Since Britain has started losing there is a very good case to be made that the last thing any country wants unless they aspire to hyer inflation, perma frost like recession or and or double digit unemployment is to win the cup. I tell you winning that bloody thing is is like wearing the hope diamond around the national neck for a decade or so.
    Do your bit to save Oz, support our loss by at least 5 goals.

    England’s loosing is like a tax cut to spur growth.

  57. 57 haikuNo Gravatar

    Tremendous. On this basis I assume you’re heavily invested in Bhutan and Monserrat then? Transferring your funds to American Samoa? Steering clear of the USA, who have gone from easybeats to a consistent top-20 ranking? Focusing on Scotland rather than England – their draw with the Faroe Island bespeaks great economic opportunities?

    Or is it only winning that causes the economic ills of which you speak? So coming second or third would be OK? I’d be quite pleased if Guus takes another team to the semis.

    Funnily enough, you left out Uruguay (1930 and 1950), Italy (1934 and 1938), West Germany (1954) and Brazil (1958 and 1962). Surely these all support your case much better? (assuming you ignore the German economic powerhouse post-war). In Italy’s case, the correlation is clear: win two world cups and you end up losing WWII. GWB had better hope the US doesn’t win in 2006, things could get very messy in Iraq …

    Why do you hate the majority of people in the world, JC? ;-)

    P.S. Zoe, how’s the footy team doing? Have you turned up to training yet?

  58. 58 ZoeNo Gravatar

    Yes! Been much more diligent since we started playing. Lost our first game by one goal, then two draws and won last week. And much more fun than I had expected.

  59. 59 haikuNo Gravatar

    Congrats Zoe! Guess I should have just gone to your blog and read about it though …

    Georg (or other members of the LP collective), how about an LP World Cup predictions post? Readers to nominate winner, semi-finalists, golden boot, and total number of goals scored throughout the tournament. I’ll supply the prize*

    * Prize will probably be a cheesy FIFA DVD, just hypothetically

  60. 60 GeorgNo Gravatar

    Zoe, glad you are liking TEH football. Your comment made me miss it for a second, I played for just over 20 years. Since I had my son I haven’t played, too many jiggly bits that make running uncomfortable.

    haiku: Sure thing. If no one else wants to voluteer I am happy to put my hand up to do the post. How many days to go? 19? A post within two weeks then? Or another thought – a LP World Cup tipping comp? footytips.com.au is doing a WC one…anyone interested let me know.

  61. 61 michael GNo Gravatar

    i’ll go with either of the above suggestions.

  62. 62 haikuNo Gravatar

    Put up the post, say, 2 weeks before. Entries must be received before the first match kicks off, and in set format, eg:

    Winner: Brazil
    Other semi-finalists: Netherlands, Italy, Argentina
    Golden boot: Ronaldinho
    Number of goals: 163

    Four points for each correct semi-finalist, four points for getting the winner right (in addition to points for being in the semis), a point for every goal scored by the nominated player. Closest to total number of goals used as a decider if anyone is tied on points. If still a tie then earliest entry wins.

    (Happy to hear suggestions on format and award of points)

  63. 63 ZoeNo Gravatar

    Yeah, I’ll be in some kind of tipping fun or another.

    Georg, I am really pretty unfit. Trust me that cunning arrangements are easily available for restricting jiggles. Strikingly efficient middle aged ladies are experts in the fitting of said arrangments – go see one of them.

    And there’ll be less jiggling if you play, won’t there? Anything that gives the mother of a kid under school age a couple of hours of healthy “me time” has to be good for everybody.

  64. 64 Bring Back EPNo Gravatar

    i have guusbumps already but I hiddink a clue about who will win in the cup.
    Perhaps I need Dutch courage or am I tilting at windmills.

    oley oley oley oley oley oley

  65. 65 GeorgNo Gravatar

    Oh, BBEP, that brought a wry smile to my face. Even if it’s not pronounced ‘Goos’..

    Zoe, I know, I should just get over it and start playing again. Everything is just so much BIGGER than when I last played and I hate it when my brain knows what to do but my body can’t do it. Ask comicstriphero, she knows how much I miss it but in some ways can’t go back to it. (I’ve retired from international football…)

    Haiku, sounds good. I’ll get working on the post. Will credit you with the scoring system. Anyone else wanting to contribute to the post is quite welcome to join in. I’m not adverse to a joint post.

  66. 66 ZoeNo Gravatar

    Could be worse, Georg. Neither your brain nor your body could have any clue what it’s doing at all.

    Maybe you can’t go back to pre-Dash soccer form, or pre-Dash drinking cocktails ti’ 2am or spending all your money on books … but I bet it will still make you happy.

    And it will piss JC off, which is worth something ;)

  67. 67 michael GNo Gravatar

    Might be more fun to include the quarter finalists and maybe the results of Australia’s group… otherwise the momentum will take a while to get going.

  68. 68 GeorgNo Gravatar

    Yes, it would piss JC off and that is reason enough.

    I can’t go back to pre-Dash form, but I would like to score just one more goal. The sound of the ball swishing on the net is just…well, it’s really good.

  69. 69 ZoeNo Gravatar

    Not down my end of the field it’s not!

  70. 70 LiamNo Gravatar

    What Zoe said. The sweetest sound to the defending player are the frustrated grunts of spoiled scoring opportunities.

  71. 71 Bring Back EPNo Gravatar

    we draw with Brazil and face Italy and best them in the second round.
    Christian Vieri duly comes to play in the A-league.

    We then beat France in the quarterfinals. The french are still wet from a sinking boat in Hamburg courtesy of Greenpeace.

    We beat the Netherlands in the semis where Holland declare guus is a terrorist.

    We win the cup final.
    Guus is declared the next PM despite not being in parliament and retires to Australia as our winter is better than Russia’s summer!

  72. 72 AmandaNo Gravatar

    Too lazy to so the maths myself … someone who has studied the draw tell me: is there a way we meet England?

    If their dreams are going to be cruelly dashed once again (and they are) it might as well be us to do it … ;-)

  73. 73 Bring Back EPNo Gravatar

    no we don’t Mandy.

    look up the world game website and it has the program and the times on TV.

    I forgot to mention Brazil will lose in the second round when most of the team can’t play as they break their ankles falling off their wallets

  74. 74 haikuNo Gravatar

    yes, there is a way for us to meet England.

    If England win their group and we finish second, then we can only meet in the final or in the 3-4 play-off. Likewise if we win our group and England finish second.

    However, if we both finish top of the group, or second in the group, then we can meet at the semi-final stage.

  75. 75 Patridiot.deNo Gravatar

    Wir wurden Papst.
    Wir werden Welmeister.
    GOTT MIT UNS
    http://www.patridiot.de

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