Via Crikey, a pointer to a fascinating post by Israeli blogger Lisa Goldman:
It looks as though the Israel-Lebanon are-we-calling-it-a-war-yet of 2006 is the first conflict to be blogged from day one. Bloggers from both sides of the border – some of whom were already aware of one another before this tragedy began – have been providing live updates, commenting on one another’s blogs and sometimes linking to posts by bloggers on the other side of the border. Will this turn out to be the first time that residents of “enemy” countries engaged in an ongoing conversation while missiles were falling?
Goldman also writes:
One of the prevalent themes on many of these blogs is a sense of powerlessness and great sadness. Of wondering how our countries got dragged into this conflict.
She has some very interesting reflections about the use of the internets to reach out and find a common humanity with those your government is branding “enemies” or “collateral damage” and what these contacts might portend for politics and war in the future.
It’s also worth reading about an anti-war demo Goldman attended. While we could get a sense of the lack of unanimity among public opinion in Israel and opposition on the left from Israelis disgusted at the actions of Olmert from reading blogs like Lisa’s, we can get no such sense from the mainstream media. The picture you’d get from the papers and tv is that all Israelis are standing behind their government, which is doing what it can to protect them. Those concerned with democracy in the Middle East will be interested to find that’s not so.
Very interesting. It seems the internet may be able to set up WW1-Christmas truce style relationships between the civilians of warring states, even as their armies are fighting each other.
It would be good to set up a “blogs sans frontier” system whereby civilised links can be maintained between warring countries via the internet. Though it would seem that this is happening all by itself.
Great Idea cliff!
There’s a growing blog culture throughout the middle east and central Asia, and in particular have a look at a fantastic book by Nasrin Alavi called “We are Iran” . Alavia is British-Iranian and has translated (and contextualised) lots of blog posts from the original Farsi.
The Israeli population is 90% behind this one. Only 10% opposed. This is really scraping at the bottom of the barrel. Some young Jewish girl who doesn’t understand whats going on. And we seem to be imputing here that the Israelis have some bizzare grudge against the Lebanese.
This is just playing silly buggers people. We know that you must have some sort of understanding of whats going on.
Ergo it must be the case that you want the bad guys to win. Because you people aren’t THAT dense.
Maybe we can add ‘Blogger’ as another of Marx’s classes.
blogeoisie or blogetariat?
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/07/18/mideast/index.html
Looks like a thin edge of a wedge–needles in haystacks if Hez lies low and does the classic tactic. Israel’s been there before– but didn’t work last time.
But last time they didn’t destroy the main lines of transport infrastructure.
And Lebanon was the most consensual and probably the most benign country in the region. And the dictators could scarcely leave this as a reproach and a constant reminder of their own lack of legitimacy.
So the dictators came in and ripped that country to pieces.
Israels strategy will take its experience in the past into account. And so this time they’ve whacked out the potential life-line between Syria and Iran and the killers internally.
But you are wrong Kemp. Israel did just fine there last time. It was Lebanon that got ripped apart by the its Muslim brothers. Israel did AOK. And she left in an orderly way in accordance with the wishes of her allies.
You are getting mixed up with your lies that no-once can take seriously any more. Just two weeks ago the official leftist lie was that HEZBOLLAH had chased Israel out.
And its this lie that you are basing what you said on.
But no-one can possibly be so ignorant as to believe that Jive now.
During the last Israeli frolic into Lebanon, the Israelis had the help of a whole local proxy army, the South Lebanon Army.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Lebanon_Army
It wasn’t enough, but at least it was something
This time the Israelis have made nothing but enemies and corpses in Lebanon.
You might want to check out The Perpetual Refugee as well.
Asia Times reports that the two Israelis captured by Hezbollah were part of an incursion by Israeli troops on the Lebanese side of the border with Israel.
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/HG15Ak02.html
If this report is true, it means that the Israeli troops were not kidnapped but were legitimate POWs. It means that Hezbollah did not start this war, but rather Israel did.
Interesting Silkworm. Id like to see that story checked, but if true – Israel’s actions are even more barbaric than already evident.
How on earth can they justify the hundreds of civilian deaths? This is a crime against humanity, plain and simple. They’ve lost the plot altogether.
Frankly, if Israel “has a right to defend itself” (repeat ad nauseum until you dont notice the systematic, illegal seizure of extra-1967 border land) then that right logically extends to Palestinians under armed occupation. Its a go-nowhere line, and the West needs to stop retailing it so uncritically.
And if I hear one more f*cker say “If I cant be in Hebron, what right have I got to be in Tel Aviv?” I’ll puke. It aint that hard to work out, mate – Tel Aviv is in Israel. Hebron isnt. Deal. People have coped with the rather simple notion of international borders for centuries.
“Asia Times reports…”
Not really true if you read the report.
“….one set of parties, which include Syria, the Palestinians, Iran, Arab nationalists in the Middle East and North Africa, along with jihadi Muslims in the Muslim World,believe that escalation is the only solution to the Arab-Israeli conflict.
They claim that the Arabs tried to talk peace with the Israelis after the Palestinians signed a peace agreement with Israel in 1993, and ended up with nothing. They say that war is correct, justified morally, politically and religiously.
To them it is legitimate self-defense. They back this argument by saying that Israel still controls the Sheba Farms, which are part of Lebanon, and still has Lebanese prisoners in Israeli jails.
Also, they add that the Israeli tank destroyed by Hezbollah, and the soldiers captured and killed on July 12, had trespassed into Lebanon’s side of the border with Israel.”
The report is self-evidently evidence of absolutely nothing. Even Nasrallah himself has never made such a claim.
No, Rob, it is proof of nothing.
It is evidence of something.
But granted, Hezbollah would say that. (But doesn’t mean it’s not true. Let’s wait.)
Rob, you criticize Hezbollah, but you fail to criticize Israel. You must criticize the claims of both sides if you are to be objective.
As Lefty E has said, this story needs to be checked.
But as far as I can see Hizballah has said no such thing. They have never denied the Israeli account of their incursion.
Frankly, I could with as much credibility describe myself as ‘an Australian political analyst’ and claim that an undifferentiated they said the Hizbollah team dressed up as chickens and crossed the border as a goodwill gesture, the Israeli soldiers died after accidentally falling off their tank, and the two ‘prisoners’ happily volunteered to join their captors for beer and skittles back in their own territory, only to have the situation wilfully falsified by Israel — according to them.
Yep, silkworm, and let’s check out my chicken story.
I suspect this is what’s going on, here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penis_panic
Peter, Lefty E and Rob, the point of the post, I thought, was to discuss the phenomenon of cross-border blogging. I know Comrade Bird started it – but can we please focus on this thread on what it’s talking about and post general discussion of the Israel-Hezbollah conflict on more relevant threads?
Thanks.
xx
‘kay, Kim. Here’s a wrap-up of the best blogs.
Well here’s an interesting blog from Lebanon, citing sources suggesting Israel may be trying to arm Hezbollah opponents; create a new civil war.
http://anecdotesfromabananarepublic.blogspot.com/
“One day they’ll give a war, and nobody will come.”
– Carl Sandburg
Because maybe they’ll all be too busy blogging to fight! Or too busy fighting on blogs to fight! Imagine if flame wars were fought with internet flames, and not flame-throwers… Something to hope for, anyway…
Here’s an example of the wars of the future:
Israel says (19 July 3:43 a.m.):
Fuck you Hizbolla you lying c*nt. You lied about the virtual rockets at eWar.com and over on Syria’s blog you lied about seeing me at Jenny’s party on the weekend! Admit you’re a fucking liar and you don’t know the first thing about Hebron or about who Jenny told Keith she likes!!!
Hizbollah says (19 July 4:12 a.m.):
Yeh, fucking Israel there you go, arguing with strawmen again.
Syria says (19 July 4:55 a.m.):
Look you two this is a serious thread we are trying to discuss the new Shakira CD. If you both keep doing this then you are going to be banned. No correspondence will be entered into on this subject.
Well, there goes the McDonalds theory of war prevention anyway.
I think this ‘blogger dialogue’ idea only works up to the point where one side blows the other’s power stations/telecoms infrastructure. In any case, most Israeli-Lebanese online discussions I’ve witnesssed recently have degenerated pretty quickly. Hard to be objective and conciliatory when you’re being bombed.
Katz Sez:
During the last Israeli frolic into Lebanon, the Israelis had the help of a whole local proxy army, the South Lebanon Army.
[link]
It wasn’t enough, but at least it was something
This time the Israelis have made nothing but enemies and corpses in Lebanon.
I sez:
WHAT DO YOU MEAN IT WASN’T ENOUGH?
What are you talking about?
Are you still LYING about Hezbollah chasing Israel out of Southern Lebanon?
Surely you communists aren’t still trying to maintain that farcical obvious rubbish.
Surely not?
He means the SLA wasn’t enough because Israel still got it’s butt booted out of southern Lebanon, genius.
Why do you hate reading, Birdy?
Israel loses.
Official.
Reality 1.
Wishful Thinking 0.
Mark
I will refrain from the political issues and just focus on your post. You write a lot of very insightful and informed posts. This is not one of them.
I am stunned you could write this. Don’t you ever read Ha’aretz, Jerusalem Post al-Ahram, the Guardian, NYT, Independent, the Oz, SMH? Or watch Dateline, Foreign Correspondent, Difference of Opinion, 4 Corners, Fox News?
There is a never-ending stream of highly critical Israeli and Diaspora Jews given prominent media platforms.
i see, read, and hear all these, so surely you do? There are hundreds of blogs out there that spend 24/7 ready to pounce on the Israeli government every time it so much as burps!
On the Lebanon issue, however, Israeli anger is directed towards Olmert’s failure to finish the job properly. If you want to get a representative insight into Israeli debate, you would do well to avoid like the plague the left-wing wackjobs who still pine for the revolution! And there are a lot of them.
Your total silence on Arab/Muslim/Lebanese voices who are appalled by the Islamists is disappointing. This confirms my lament that western leftists do not give a damn for Arabs/Muslims and their views.
I would suggest that those concerned with democracy in the middle east will need to start grazing in pastures other than the blogosphere; Jewish, Arab, Muslim, white bourgeois, or otherwise.
Silworm
Interesting. When did Hizballah sign the Geneva Conventions? I just checked into the UN website and blow me down. I could not find a transcript of the Ambassador to Hizballahstan pleading his case in the Security Council. perhaps my search skills are not very good. Would you be so kind as to post a link for me?
John, generally I don’t re-open debate on old posts – this one dates from July last year. So you’ll forgive me for not responding to the points you make.
Mark
Oh F***. What a dickhead I am. Please accept my apologies.