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	<title>Comments on: Kenya&#8217;s Hominid Skeletons in The Closet</title>
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	<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/13/kenyas-hominid-skeletons-in-the-closet/</link>
	<description>Life, Culture and Politics from BrisVegas</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 14 Feb 2012 07:31:18 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Zarquon</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/13/kenyas-hominid-skeletons-in-the-closet/#comment-303737</link>
		<dc:creator>Zarquon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Aug 2006 08:16:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/13/kenyas-hominid-skeletons-in-the-closet/#comment-303737</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt; There is hardly any biological comparison that could be conducted that would make daffodils human—except perhaps DNA. &lt;/blockquote&gt;
This is egregiously, disastrously wrong.

Both human and plant cells are Eukaryotic. They have a nucleus, organelles and cytoskeleton. That&#039;s why the DNA sequence is similar, and it is not any kind of argument against evolution that they are similar.

&lt;blockquote&gt;
Because DNA is a linear array of those four bases—A,G,C, and T—only four possibilities exist at any specific point in a DNA sequence. The laws of chance tell us that two random sequences from species that have no ancestry in common will match at about one in every four sites. Thus even two unrelated DNA sequences will be 25 percent identical, not 0 percent identical (2000, p. B-7).

Therefore a human and any earthly DNA-based life form must be at least 25% identical.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

The person who produced this stuff is lying with statistics.

If you want to tie yourself to dishonesty like this, feel free. e.g. The &quot;therefore&quot; part is only true if DNA sequences in genomes &lt;em&gt;are&lt;/em&gt; random sequences of nucleotides, but they are not. The sequences are non-random, constrained by function and ancestry so that the sequence similarities are strong indications of common ancestry, so strong that no other explanation is plausible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p> There is hardly any biological comparison that could be conducted that would make daffodils human—except perhaps DNA. </p></blockquote>
<p>This is egregiously, disastrously wrong.</p>
<p>Both human and plant cells are Eukaryotic. They have a nucleus, organelles and cytoskeleton. That&#8217;s why the DNA sequence is similar, and it is not any kind of argument against evolution that they are similar.</p>
<blockquote><p>
Because DNA is a linear array of those four bases—A,G,C, and T—only four possibilities exist at any specific point in a DNA sequence. The laws of chance tell us that two random sequences from species that have no ancestry in common will match at about one in every four sites. Thus even two unrelated DNA sequences will be 25 percent identical, not 0 percent identical (2000, p. B-7).</p>
<p>Therefore a human and any earthly DNA-based life form must be at least 25% identical.</p></blockquote>
<p>The person who produced this stuff is lying with statistics.</p>
<p>If you want to tie yourself to dishonesty like this, feel free. e.g. The &#8220;therefore&#8221; part is only true if DNA sequences in genomes <em>are</em> random sequences of nucleotides, but they are not. The sequences are non-random, constrained by function and ancestry so that the sequence similarities are strong indications of common ancestry, so strong that no other explanation is plausible.</p>
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		<title>By: steve munn</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/13/kenyas-hominid-skeletons-in-the-closet/#comment-303736</link>
		<dc:creator>steve munn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Aug 2006 08:05:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/13/kenyas-hominid-skeletons-in-the-closet/#comment-303736</guid>
		<description>Katz sez:

&quot;And if that’s the case, what other tricks has God played?&quot;

That&#039;s easy. God has buried fossils all over the planet of intermediate species, such as dinosaurs with feathers and whales with legs, to test the faith of his flock.  Good sheep like FaceLift say &quot;baaa&quot; in the face of such temptation then imbibe more of the holy spirit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Katz sez:</p>
<p>&#8220;And if that’s the case, what other tricks has God played?&#8221;</p>
<p>That&#8217;s easy. God has buried fossils all over the planet of intermediate species, such as dinosaurs with feathers and whales with legs, to test the faith of his flock.  Good sheep like FaceLift say &#8220;baaa&#8221; in the face of such temptation then imbibe more of the holy spirit.</p>
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		<title>By: Shaun</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/13/kenyas-hominid-skeletons-in-the-closet/#comment-303735</link>
		<dc:creator>Shaun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Aug 2006 08:05:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/13/kenyas-hominid-skeletons-in-the-closet/#comment-303735</guid>
		<description>FL, 

I&#039;m not sure what the link to a muddle headed piece of apologetics is supposed to show. How about reading some real scientific research on the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.nature.com/nature/focus/chimpgenome/index.html#research&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;sequencing of the chimpanzee genome&lt;/a&gt; and how it informs human evolution.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>FL, </p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure what the link to a muddle headed piece of apologetics is supposed to show. How about reading some real scientific research on the <a href="http://www.nature.com/nature/focus/chimpgenome/index.html#research" rel="nofollow">sequencing of the chimpanzee genome</a> and how it informs human evolution.</p>
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		<title>By: Katz</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/13/kenyas-hominid-skeletons-in-the-closet/#comment-303734</link>
		<dc:creator>Katz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Aug 2006 07:55:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/13/kenyas-hominid-skeletons-in-the-closet/#comment-303734</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Therefore a human and any earthly DNA-based life form must be at least 25% identical. Would it be correct, then, to state that daffodils are âone-quarter humanâ?? The idea that a flower is one-quarter human is neither profound nor enlightening; it is outlandishly ridiculous! There is hardly any biological comparison that could be conducted that would make daffodils humanâexcept perhaps DNA. Marks went on to concede:&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Irrelevant demolition of his own straw man.

Those data simply mean that all life forms were related at some time and the closer the relationship the greater the correlation of DNA.

If one accepts the random thesis, then it is equally likely for a chimp to have 25% of human genes and a daffodil to have 98%. Now that &lt;strong&gt;would &lt;/strong&gt;be a surprise. But unsurprisingly that never is the case.

And if humans were a different creation, why did God use exactly the same CAGTs as with daffodils? Did she do this to test the faith of 21st century evolution denialists?

And if that&#039;s the case, what other tricks has God played? Maybe the whole of the universe has been dealt with marked cards and we are living in the midst of a con game of truly cosmic proportions, including for that matter all evidence of the existence of God and all human perceptive acuity for the numinous.

Now that&#039;s the ultimate PoMo world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Therefore a human and any earthly DNA-based life form must be at least 25% identical. Would it be correct, then, to state that daffodils are âone-quarter humanâ?? The idea that a flower is one-quarter human is neither profound nor enlightening; it is outlandishly ridiculous! There is hardly any biological comparison that could be conducted that would make daffodils humanâexcept perhaps DNA. Marks went on to concede:</p></blockquote>
<p>Irrelevant demolition of his own straw man.</p>
<p>Those data simply mean that all life forms were related at some time and the closer the relationship the greater the correlation of DNA.</p>
<p>If one accepts the random thesis, then it is equally likely for a chimp to have 25% of human genes and a daffodil to have 98%. Now that <strong>would </strong>be a surprise. But unsurprisingly that never is the case.</p>
<p>And if humans were a different creation, why did God use exactly the same CAGTs as with daffodils? Did she do this to test the faith of 21st century evolution denialists?</p>
<p>And if that&#8217;s the case, what other tricks has God played? Maybe the whole of the universe has been dealt with marked cards and we are living in the midst of a con game of truly cosmic proportions, including for that matter all evidence of the existence of God and all human perceptive acuity for the numinous.</p>
<p>Now that&#8217;s the ultimate PoMo world.</p>
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		<title>By: FaceLift</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/13/kenyas-hominid-skeletons-in-the-closet/#comment-303733</link>
		<dc:creator>FaceLift</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Aug 2006 06:04:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/13/kenyas-hominid-skeletons-in-the-closet/#comment-303733</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not a geneticist, so I can&#039;t answer you, but I &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/2070&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;read&lt;/a&gt; that we also share 25% of DNA distinctiveness with daffodils, so maybe we&#039;re all just a bunch of flowers!

&lt;blockquote&gt;Jonathan Marks, (department of anthropology, University of California, Berkeley) has pointed out the often-overlooked problem with this âsimilarityâ? line of thinking.

Because DNA is a linear array of those four basesâA,G,C, and Tâonly four possibilities exist at any specific point in a DNA sequence. The laws of chance tell us that two random sequences from species that have no ancestry in common will match at about one in every four sites. Thus even two unrelated DNA sequences will be 25 percent identical, not 0 percent identical (2000, p. B-7).

Therefore a human and any earthly DNA-based life form must be at least 25% identical. Would it be correct, then, to state that daffodils are âone-quarter humanâ?? The idea that a flower is one-quarter human is neither profound nor enlightening; it is outlandishly ridiculous! There is hardly any biological comparison that could be conducted that would make daffodils humanâexcept perhaps DNA. Marks went on to concede:

Moreover, the genetic comparison is misleading because it ignores qualitative differences among genomes.... Thus, even among such close relatives as human and chimpanzee, we find that the chimpâs genome is estimated to be about 10 percent larger than the humanâs; that one human chromosome contains a fusion of two small chimpanzee chromosomes; and that the tips of each chimpanzee chromosome contain a DNA sequence that is &lt;strong&gt;not present in humans&lt;/strong&gt; (B-7, emp. added).

The truth is, if we consider the absolute amount of genetic material when comparing primates and humans, the 1-2% difference in DNA represents approximately 80 million different nucleotides (compared to the 3-4 billion nucleotides that make up the entire human genome).&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not a geneticist, so I can&#8217;t answer you, but I <a href="http://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/2070" rel="nofollow">read</a> that we also share 25% of DNA distinctiveness with daffodils, so maybe we&#8217;re all just a bunch of flowers!</p>
<blockquote><p>Jonathan Marks, (department of anthropology, University of California, Berkeley) has pointed out the often-overlooked problem with this âsimilarityâ? line of thinking.</p>
<p>Because DNA is a linear array of those four basesâA,G,C, and Tâonly four possibilities exist at any specific point in a DNA sequence. The laws of chance tell us that two random sequences from species that have no ancestry in common will match at about one in every four sites. Thus even two unrelated DNA sequences will be 25 percent identical, not 0 percent identical (2000, p. B-7).</p>
<p>Therefore a human and any earthly DNA-based life form must be at least 25% identical. Would it be correct, then, to state that daffodils are âone-quarter humanâ?? The idea that a flower is one-quarter human is neither profound nor enlightening; it is outlandishly ridiculous! There is hardly any biological comparison that could be conducted that would make daffodils humanâexcept perhaps DNA. Marks went on to concede:</p>
<p>Moreover, the genetic comparison is misleading because it ignores qualitative differences among genomes&#8230;. Thus, even among such close relatives as human and chimpanzee, we find that the chimpâs genome is estimated to be about 10 percent larger than the humanâs; that one human chromosome contains a fusion of two small chimpanzee chromosomes; and that the tips of each chimpanzee chromosome contain a DNA sequence that is <strong>not present in humans</strong> (B-7, emp. added).</p>
<p>The truth is, if we consider the absolute amount of genetic material when comparing primates and humans, the 1-2% difference in DNA represents approximately 80 million different nucleotides (compared to the 3-4 billion nucleotides that make up the entire human genome).</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Katz</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/13/kenyas-hominid-skeletons-in-the-closet/#comment-303732</link>
		<dc:creator>Katz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Aug 2006 05:40:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/13/kenyas-hominid-skeletons-in-the-closet/#comment-303732</guid>
		<description>FaceLift,

How do you explain how humans share about 98% of our DNA with Chimps.

Yet as primates, monkeys, mammals, reptiles are proven to have an older more remote origin, we share less and less, but still some, DNA with the animal world.

Were all animals made from &quot;dust&quot;, but just older different &quot;dust&quot;?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>FaceLift,</p>
<p>How do you explain how humans share about 98% of our DNA with Chimps.</p>
<p>Yet as primates, monkeys, mammals, reptiles are proven to have an older more remote origin, we share less and less, but still some, DNA with the animal world.</p>
<p>Were all animals made from &#8220;dust&#8221;, but just older different &#8220;dust&#8221;?</p>
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		<title>By: FaceLift</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/13/kenyas-hominid-skeletons-in-the-closet/#comment-303731</link>
		<dc:creator>FaceLift</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Aug 2006 05:34:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/13/kenyas-hominid-skeletons-in-the-closet/#comment-303731</guid>
		<description>Well, I&#039;m no mystical formation of dust, Shaun. My mum and dad got together and I was conceived. I think the reference to dust is Moses unscientific, ancient-understanding-of-stuff way of saying we are physically made of the same material as the earth - ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Not having a grasp of microscience and the machinations of life that you do, dust was about as far as he could go in describing our beginnings, which he attributes to an act of God. Not bad really. Mocking scientists tend to want to bring him up to the level of Einstien, who was the product of advanced learning as well as immense intelligence, so they can ridicule the mosaic understanding of the universe, and justify their denial of God&#039;s involvement. Finding man&#039;s beginnings in the dust (miniscule, microscopic, cellular world perhaps) wasn&#039;t really that far off, even from an evolutionists perspective. And even science has yet to find the beginning.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I&#8217;m no mystical formation of dust, Shaun. My mum and dad got together and I was conceived. I think the reference to dust is Moses unscientific, ancient-understanding-of-stuff way of saying we are physically made of the same material as the earth &#8211; ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Not having a grasp of microscience and the machinations of life that you do, dust was about as far as he could go in describing our beginnings, which he attributes to an act of God. Not bad really. Mocking scientists tend to want to bring him up to the level of Einstien, who was the product of advanced learning as well as immense intelligence, so they can ridicule the mosaic understanding of the universe, and justify their denial of God&#8217;s involvement. Finding man&#8217;s beginnings in the dust (miniscule, microscopic, cellular world perhaps) wasn&#8217;t really that far off, even from an evolutionists perspective. And even science has yet to find the beginning.</p>
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		<title>By: Shaun</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/13/kenyas-hominid-skeletons-in-the-closet/#comment-303730</link>
		<dc:creator>Shaun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Aug 2006 00:40:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/13/kenyas-hominid-skeletons-in-the-closet/#comment-303730</guid>
		<description>Afterlife? Why worry about that FL when there is more than enough to keep one occupied in this life. 

There is a simple reason why the supernatural is ignored. Because there is no evidence. You can believe all you want that you are mystical formation of dust but the evidence of that humans and apes shared a common ancestor is overwhelming and one of the most elegant, well documented and affirming discoveries of science.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Afterlife? Why worry about that FL when there is more than enough to keep one occupied in this life. </p>
<p>There is a simple reason why the supernatural is ignored. Because there is no evidence. You can believe all you want that you are mystical formation of dust but the evidence of that humans and apes shared a common ancestor is overwhelming and one of the most elegant, well documented and affirming discoveries of science.</p>
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		<title>By: FaceLift</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/13/kenyas-hominid-skeletons-in-the-closet/#comment-303729</link>
		<dc:creator>FaceLift</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Aug 2006 00:14:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/13/kenyas-hominid-skeletons-in-the-closet/#comment-303729</guid>
		<description>Well Biblically I came from the same elements (dust) of the earth that all natural, earthly things are derived from, but I haven&#039;t bought into the ape ancestoral thing yet. One of blogger Pharangula&#039;s problems, of course, is that he can&#039;t envisage the miraculous or supernatural, which is OK by me, but it leaves out amazing possibilities, since he can only deal in the obvious, and misses the power of other dimensions. I don&#039;t, however, see that the supernatural is discounted simply because science-bound bloggers like him can&#039;t find it in the fossil record, which is, at best, limited, and not as precise as it should be in absolutely identifying intermediate species on the evolution tree, hence the lingering doubts. As for the rapture, well, it&#039;s a far more interesting and encouraging thing to hope for than nothingness! What are you looking forward to as an after(this)life experience?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well Biblically I came from the same elements (dust) of the earth that all natural, earthly things are derived from, but I haven&#8217;t bought into the ape ancestoral thing yet. One of blogger Pharangula&#8217;s problems, of course, is that he can&#8217;t envisage the miraculous or supernatural, which is OK by me, but it leaves out amazing possibilities, since he can only deal in the obvious, and misses the power of other dimensions. I don&#8217;t, however, see that the supernatural is discounted simply because science-bound bloggers like him can&#8217;t find it in the fossil record, which is, at best, limited, and not as precise as it should be in absolutely identifying intermediate species on the evolution tree, hence the lingering doubts. As for the rapture, well, it&#8217;s a far more interesting and encouraging thing to hope for than nothingness! What are you looking forward to as an after(this)life experience?</p>
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		<title>By: Katz</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/13/kenyas-hominid-skeletons-in-the-closet/#comment-303728</link>
		<dc:creator>Katz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Aug 2006 23:27:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/13/kenyas-hominid-skeletons-in-the-closet/#comment-303728</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Thing is, provided you modern ape descendents... &lt;/blockquote&gt;

So you think you came from somewhere different FaceLift? Reverse Rapture maybe?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Thing is, provided you modern ape descendents&#8230; </p></blockquote>
<p>So you think you came from somewhere different FaceLift? Reverse Rapture maybe?</p>
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