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	<title>Comments on: Baudoin Baldwin the Crusader</title>
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	<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/15/baudoin-baldwin-the-crusader/</link>
	<description>Life, Culture and Politics from BrisVegas</description>
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		<title>By: Cliff</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/15/baudoin-baldwin-the-crusader/#comment-304345</link>
		<dc:creator>Cliff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Aug 2006 09:15:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/15/baudoin-baldwin-the-crusader/#comment-304345</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Therefoe we have a [politico-legal] system in place which has identified good and evil.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I don&#039;t deny that lawmakers will often use conventional morality as a guide in the making of laws. Laws prohibiting murder, theft, fraud and for the enforcement of contracts are no-brainers... and if that&#039;s all you were saying then all I can say is &quot;WELL, DUH!&quot;
I think your statement actually implied something more substantial and less obvious; i.e. that the State &lt;code&gt;&lt;i&gt;defines&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/code&gt; moral boundaries itself. This is far more contentious. The same state also sanctions abortion. The same state tolerates homosexuality, atheism, and even Satanism. Many would say that this is immoral... nay, even EVIL.
Sure, there is a sense in which the State takes guidance from notions of good and evil... but not entirely. Modern states are also based on a different kind of ethical base from that which gave us the notion of sin, and good and evil.
You may wish, Facelift, in your wildest fantasies, that the State would put the full force of its power behind policing the boundaries between good and evil in their entirety... but the question will arise, &quot;whose Good and Evil?&quot;. The choice would yield a theocracy... or something analogous.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Therefoe we have a [politico-legal] system in place which has identified good and evil.</p></blockquote>
<p>I don&#8217;t deny that lawmakers will often use conventional morality as a guide in the making of laws. Laws prohibiting murder, theft, fraud and for the enforcement of contracts are no-brainers&#8230; and if that&#8217;s all you were saying then all I can say is &#8220;WELL, DUH!&#8221;<br />
I think your statement actually implied something more substantial and less obvious; i.e. that the State <code><i>defines</i></code> moral boundaries itself. This is far more contentious. The same state also sanctions abortion. The same state tolerates homosexuality, atheism, and even Satanism. Many would say that this is immoral&#8230; nay, even EVIL.<br />
Sure, there is a sense in which the State takes guidance from notions of good and evil&#8230; but not entirely. Modern states are also based on a different kind of ethical base from that which gave us the notion of sin, and good and evil.<br />
You may wish, Facelift, in your wildest fantasies, that the State would put the full force of its power behind policing the boundaries between good and evil in their entirety&#8230; but the question will arise, &#8220;whose Good and Evil?&#8221;. The choice would yield a theocracy&#8230; or something analogous.</p>
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		<title>By: steve munn</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/15/baudoin-baldwin-the-crusader/#comment-304344</link>
		<dc:creator>steve munn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Aug 2006 08:34:57 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Tsk, tsk Faithlift.  

You have sinned today by failing to observe the requirement to rest on the Sabbath.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tsk, tsk Faithlift.  </p>
<p>You have sinned today by failing to observe the requirement to rest on the Sabbath.</p>
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		<title>By: FaceLift</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/15/baudoin-baldwin-the-crusader/#comment-304343</link>
		<dc:creator>FaceLift</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Aug 2006 07:48:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>So when a lawmaker says it&#039;s wrong/evil to steal another&#039;s property, or kill them or rape them, invade their homes, etc, they are not making moral judgements as well as legal?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So when a lawmaker says it&#8217;s wrong/evil to steal another&#8217;s property, or kill them or rape them, invade their homes, etc, they are not making moral judgements as well as legal?</p>
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		<title>By: Cliff</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/15/baudoin-baldwin-the-crusader/#comment-304342</link>
		<dc:creator>Cliff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Aug 2006 06:24:23 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Terrorists’ opinions of others not of their ilk being evil doesn’t negate the evil means they use to further their cause.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&quot;They are evil because they do evil to us&quot; pretty much sums up what evil, for all practical purposes, actually means.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Terrorists’ opinions of others not of their ilk being evil doesn’t negate the evil means they use to further their cause.</p></blockquote>
<p>&#8220;They are evil because they do evil to us&#8221; pretty much sums up what evil, for all practical purposes, actually means.</p>
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		<title>By: Cliff</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/15/baudoin-baldwin-the-crusader/#comment-304341</link>
		<dc:creator>Cliff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Aug 2006 06:22:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/15/baudoin-baldwin-the-crusader/#comment-304341</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Don’t we call this system ‘law’ or ‘justice’? Isn’t it generally organised and adjusted by the people we empower as law makers and law keepers. Therefoe we have a system in place which has identified good and evil.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I don&#039;t think the precepts and prohibitions of law and justice are at all equivalent with the categories &quot;good&quot; and &quot;evil&quot;. You are suggesting that politicians are the guardians and interpreters of moral absolutes. I don&#039;t think any good Christian, let alone anyone secular, would condone that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Don’t we call this system ‘law’ or ‘justice’? Isn’t it generally organised and adjusted by the people we empower as law makers and law keepers. Therefoe we have a system in place which has identified good and evil.</p></blockquote>
<p>I don&#8217;t think the precepts and prohibitions of law and justice are at all equivalent with the categories &#8220;good&#8221; and &#8220;evil&#8221;. You are suggesting that politicians are the guardians and interpreters of moral absolutes. I don&#8217;t think any good Christian, let alone anyone secular, would condone that.</p>
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		<title>By: FaceLift</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/15/baudoin-baldwin-the-crusader/#comment-304340</link>
		<dc:creator>FaceLift</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Aug 2006 05:22:17 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Terrorists&#039; opinions of others not of their ilk being evil doesn&#039;t negate the evil means they use to further their cause. 

If we were to set up a universal code of ethics wich identifies the difference between right and wrong for creatures of our level of intelligence and conscience, then we would have standards and values which indicate &#039;normal&#039; behaviour and separate good from evil. Don&#039;t we call this system &#039;law&#039; or &#039;justice&#039;? Isn&#039;t it generally organised and adjusted by the people we empower as law makers and law keepers. Therefoe we have a system in place which has identified good and evil. Mast nations on earth would judge the actions of terrorists to bee outside the law and therefore evil, regardless of their possiblee belief to the contrary.

The fact of systems of justice doesn&#039;t indicate the presence of a devil, but it does demonstrate a high level of justice which shows that we are dependent, to a certain extent, on conscience and consensus, or, better, a consensus of conscience, as a foundational part of our law making system, whihc in turn throws up a value which demands a descriptor of what is generallyb accepted as good or generally acccepted as evil.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Terrorists&#8217; opinions of others not of their ilk being evil doesn&#8217;t negate the evil means they use to further their cause. </p>
<p>If we were to set up a universal code of ethics wich identifies the difference between right and wrong for creatures of our level of intelligence and conscience, then we would have standards and values which indicate &#8216;normal&#8217; behaviour and separate good from evil. Don&#8217;t we call this system &#8216;law&#8217; or &#8216;justice&#8217;? Isn&#8217;t it generally organised and adjusted by the people we empower as law makers and law keepers. Therefoe we have a system in place which has identified good and evil. Mast nations on earth would judge the actions of terrorists to bee outside the law and therefore evil, regardless of their possiblee belief to the contrary.</p>
<p>The fact of systems of justice doesn&#8217;t indicate the presence of a devil, but it does demonstrate a high level of justice which shows that we are dependent, to a certain extent, on conscience and consensus, or, better, a consensus of conscience, as a foundational part of our law making system, whihc in turn throws up a value which demands a descriptor of what is generallyb accepted as good or generally acccepted as evil.</p>
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		<title>By: Cliff</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/15/baudoin-baldwin-the-crusader/#comment-304339</link>
		<dc:creator>Cliff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Aug 2006 01:41:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/15/baudoin-baldwin-the-crusader/#comment-304339</guid>
		<description>Personally, I don&#039;t believe that evil, in itself, is a sufficient motivator of human action. Evil is a collectively determined category that does not, in my experience, correspond with the lived and inner experience of the &quot;evil-doer&quot;. To us... terrorists are evil because of what they do to us. But why do they  do what they do to us? Why, BECAUSE THEY BELIEVE WE ARE EVIL! Personally, I&#039;d rather not play into their, or anyone else&#039;s manichaean fantasies.... 
And to anyone who believes that I am depriving humans of moral responsibility by denying evil and the devil... I&#039;d ask this. Are humans more or less responsible for their actions in the absence of some external and supernatural force of corruption and deception? I would agree that there is a deception involved in the formation of these categories... but it is a self-deception, and I would be cautious because I believe that such conceptual and categorical self-deception is more widespread (and even secularised) than it seems. Good and Evil are just obvious examples.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Personally, I don&#8217;t believe that evil, in itself, is a sufficient motivator of human action. Evil is a collectively determined category that does not, in my experience, correspond with the lived and inner experience of the &#8220;evil-doer&#8221;. To us&#8230; terrorists are evil because of what they do to us. But why do they  do what they do to us? Why, BECAUSE THEY BELIEVE WE ARE EVIL! Personally, I&#8217;d rather not play into their, or anyone else&#8217;s manichaean fantasies&#8230;.<br />
And to anyone who believes that I am depriving humans of moral responsibility by denying evil and the devil&#8230; I&#8217;d ask this. Are humans more or less responsible for their actions in the absence of some external and supernatural force of corruption and deception? I would agree that there is a deception involved in the formation of these categories&#8230; but it is a self-deception, and I would be cautious because I believe that such conceptual and categorical self-deception is more widespread (and even secularised) than it seems. Good and Evil are just obvious examples.</p>
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		<title>By: Zarquon</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/15/baudoin-baldwin-the-crusader/#comment-304338</link>
		<dc:creator>Zarquon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Aug 2006 12:12:49 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I’ve tried whispering into GWB’s ear, but as you should know he took the temperance Pledge a while back. &lt;/blockquote&gt;
And you believe him? Bwaaahahahaha</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I’ve tried whispering into GWB’s ear, but as you should know he took the temperance Pledge a while back. </p></blockquote>
<p>And you believe him? Bwaaahahahaha</p>
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		<title>By: The Devil Drink</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/15/baudoin-baldwin-the-crusader/#comment-304337</link>
		<dc:creator>The Devil Drink</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Aug 2006 11:46:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/15/baudoin-baldwin-the-crusader/#comment-304337</guid>
		<description>&quot;The Devil Drink&quot;, &quot;Devil&quot;, &quot;El Diablerino&quot;, if you&#039;re not into the whole brevity thing...
&lt;/biglebowski&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The Devil Drink&#8221;, &#8220;Devil&#8221;, &#8220;El Diablerino&#8221;, if you&#8217;re not into the whole brevity thing&#8230;<br />
&lt;/biglebowski&gt;</p>
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		<title>By: Zarquon</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/15/baudoin-baldwin-the-crusader/#comment-304336</link>
		<dc:creator>Zarquon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Aug 2006 11:43:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/15/baudoin-baldwin-the-crusader/#comment-304336</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m arguing with a person, not a personification.
&lt;code&gt;I have never been to Zanzibar
I always thought it was too far
You&#039;re not who you say you are
&lt;/code&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m arguing with a person, not a personification.<br />
<code>I have never been to Zanzibar<br />
I always thought it was too far<br />
You're not who you say you are<br />
</code></p>
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