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	<title>Comments on: Lies, damned lies and statistics: women just as violent as men?</title>
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	<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/20/lies-damned-lies-and-statistics-women-just-as-violent-as-men/</link>
	<description>Life, Culture and Politics from BrisVegas</description>
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		<title>By: George</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/20/lies-damned-lies-and-statistics-women-just-as-violent-as-men/#comment-305480</link>
		<dc:creator>George</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Oct 2006 13:34:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/20/lies-damned-lies-and-statistics-women-just-as-violent-as-men/#comment-305480</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve been victimised by women since birth. Abandoned then adopted at 2 months of age by a loving father and a cruel and vicious adopted mother.
My childhood is full of horrible memories where she constantly reminded me of my worthlessness and stupidity.&quot;What will people think of you&quot; blah blah blah blah etc etc etc.
Not only verbal cruelty but also many beatings. She used to knock the wind out of me.
She mellowed out in her later years but would never admit her verbal and physical attacks were the direct cause of my lifelong addiction to alcohol and hard drugs, my wide mood  swings and explosive temper. &quot;You were mad when I got you&quot; she&#039;d say. Or &quot;I didn&#039;t really want to adopt, it was for your father&quot; Translation? &quot;I never really wanted you&quot;
Two divorces resulting from my abusive attitude towards women (a couple of rare token physical attacks i.e. controlled, designed to terrorise without any real physical damage but never the less wrong and unforgiveable) An inability to deal with intimacy and express or accept love without suspicion. Although I have a good relationship with my ex, she&#039;s my best friend, I trust her implicitly but simply find intimacy tenderness etc impossible to deal with, makes me uncomfortable, always waiting for the rejection. I like individual women but hate the species.
My little dog is the only one who&#039;s love I accept without suspicion.
I live alone and love my solitude I don&#039;t feel lonely. I feel safe on my own, no possibility of pain or hurt.
I hold no grudge my adopted mum was treated cruelly by her step mother. I understand her pain.
BUT don&#039;t tell me a woman has to beat the crap out of you to be considered violent and dangerous. I was a hair&#039;s breadth from ending up a sociopath a crazed woman hating murderer. It was my dear adopted father&#039;s love and kindness that pulled me back from the abyss. A kinder more loving person I&#039;ve never met. &quot;He&quot; taught me right from wrong. He gave me the self control that prevented me from turning my hatred of women into cruel and violent murderous acts.
Women are inherently evil they can do much more harm than any man could. They break hearts, not men, because you can&#039;t break something that doesn&#039;t exist.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve been victimised by women since birth. Abandoned then adopted at 2 months of age by a loving father and a cruel and vicious adopted mother.<br />
My childhood is full of horrible memories where she constantly reminded me of my worthlessness and stupidity.&#8221;What will people think of you&#8221; blah blah blah blah etc etc etc.<br />
Not only verbal cruelty but also many beatings. She used to knock the wind out of me.<br />
She mellowed out in her later years but would never admit her verbal and physical attacks were the direct cause of my lifelong addiction to alcohol and hard drugs, my wide mood  swings and explosive temper. &#8220;You were mad when I got you&#8221; she&#8217;d say. Or &#8220;I didn&#8217;t really want to adopt, it was for your father&#8221; Translation? &#8220;I never really wanted you&#8221;<br />
Two divorces resulting from my abusive attitude towards women (a couple of rare token physical attacks i.e. controlled, designed to terrorise without any real physical damage but never the less wrong and unforgiveable) An inability to deal with intimacy and express or accept love without suspicion. Although I have a good relationship with my ex, she&#8217;s my best friend, I trust her implicitly but simply find intimacy tenderness etc impossible to deal with, makes me uncomfortable, always waiting for the rejection. I like individual women but hate the species.<br />
My little dog is the only one who&#8217;s love I accept without suspicion.<br />
I live alone and love my solitude I don&#8217;t feel lonely. I feel safe on my own, no possibility of pain or hurt.<br />
I hold no grudge my adopted mum was treated cruelly by her step mother. I understand her pain.<br />
BUT don&#8217;t tell me a woman has to beat the crap out of you to be considered violent and dangerous. I was a hair&#8217;s breadth from ending up a sociopath a crazed woman hating murderer. It was my dear adopted father&#8217;s love and kindness that pulled me back from the abyss. A kinder more loving person I&#8217;ve never met. &#8220;He&#8221; taught me right from wrong. He gave me the self control that prevented me from turning my hatred of women into cruel and violent murderous acts.<br />
Women are inherently evil they can do much more harm than any man could. They break hearts, not men, because you can&#8217;t break something that doesn&#8217;t exist.</p>
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		<title>By: Zorpho</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/20/lies-damned-lies-and-statistics-women-just-as-violent-as-men/#comment-305479</link>
		<dc:creator>Zorpho</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Aug 2006 12:20:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/20/lies-damned-lies-and-statistics-women-just-as-violent-as-men/#comment-305479</guid>
		<description>We are all missing the point.
What do all these stats tell us? Whether the violence is instigated by men or women is irrelevant.
The point that is constantly being missed is that all these statistics indicate that men and women should not co-habitate.
Many species in the wild meet for sex then go their own ways. Why can&#039;t humans do this ?
Better still, NO contact at all sounds the ultimate lifestyle. The key to happiness is for men and women to stay away from one another.
Other species have male and female belonging to the group or herd but they live apart within that group. This sounds like a scenario for those who simply cannot do without sex.
Sex is great but it&#039;s not that great! 
The peace and tranquility I&#039;ve found since living alone cannot be compared to any percieved happiness we may think we find by co-habitating with a member of any sex.
I love my life. I could not have said this honestly when I lived with a woman
The question isn&#039;t,&quot;Can men and women live together?&quot; It should be, &quot; can humans live together without trying to kill one another?&quot;
I believe the answer is no. Just look around the world. See how well we are doing?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We are all missing the point.<br />
What do all these stats tell us? Whether the violence is instigated by men or women is irrelevant.<br />
The point that is constantly being missed is that all these statistics indicate that men and women should not co-habitate.<br />
Many species in the wild meet for sex then go their own ways. Why can&#8217;t humans do this ?<br />
Better still, NO contact at all sounds the ultimate lifestyle. The key to happiness is for men and women to stay away from one another.<br />
Other species have male and female belonging to the group or herd but they live apart within that group. This sounds like a scenario for those who simply cannot do without sex.<br />
Sex is great but it&#8217;s not that great!<br />
The peace and tranquility I&#8217;ve found since living alone cannot be compared to any percieved happiness we may think we find by co-habitating with a member of any sex.<br />
I love my life. I could not have said this honestly when I lived with a woman<br />
The question isn&#8217;t,&#8221;Can men and women live together?&#8221; It should be, &#8221; can humans live together without trying to kill one another?&#8221;<br />
I believe the answer is no. Just look around the world. See how well we are doing?</p>
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		<title>By: tanja</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/20/lies-damned-lies-and-statistics-women-just-as-violent-as-men/#comment-305478</link>
		<dc:creator>tanja</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Aug 2006 15:04:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/20/lies-damned-lies-and-statistics-women-just-as-violent-as-men/#comment-305478</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve got a copy of the Qld crime stats from the Qld Police Service (reported and cleared) for prop offences and offences against a person
2002/03 and 2003/04 .  It breaks down assault into the category of the relationship of the offender to the aggrieved etc so you can get a picture of the actual homicides, perpetrators etc etc. (I havent seriously looked at it myself)  

I also have the stats on DV Orders applied for and granted by the Magistrates courts from the same period -email me if you want copies.

Off the top of my head...i recall around 1 in every 50 adult Qlders are mentioned on a DV order as either the respondent, aggrieved or named persons.   Yet, only about 40% of callers to the Emergency DV Crisis service have had any contact with the Police regarding their experience of DV.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve got a copy of the Qld crime stats from the Qld Police Service (reported and cleared) for prop offences and offences against a person<br />
2002/03 and 2003/04 .  It breaks down assault into the category of the relationship of the offender to the aggrieved etc so you can get a picture of the actual homicides, perpetrators etc etc. (I havent seriously looked at it myself)  </p>
<p>I also have the stats on DV Orders applied for and granted by the Magistrates courts from the same period -email me if you want copies.</p>
<p>Off the top of my head&#8230;i recall around 1 in every 50 adult Qlders are mentioned on a DV order as either the respondent, aggrieved or named persons.   Yet, only about 40% of callers to the Emergency DV Crisis service have had any contact with the Police regarding their experience of DV.</p>
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		<title>By: Kim</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/20/lies-damned-lies-and-statistics-women-just-as-violent-as-men/#comment-305477</link>
		<dc:creator>Kim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Aug 2006 13:21:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/20/lies-damned-lies-and-statistics-women-just-as-violent-as-men/#comment-305477</guid>
		<description>I think you had the tone right, tigtog.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you had the tone right, tigtog.</p>
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		<title>By: tigtog</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/20/lies-damned-lies-and-statistics-women-just-as-violent-as-men/#comment-305476</link>
		<dc:creator>tigtog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Aug 2006 12:30:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/20/lies-damned-lies-and-statistics-women-just-as-violent-as-men/#comment-305476</guid>
		<description>Quite possibly just spam, Kim.  If he is genuinely new maybe I&#039;m being a bit hard on him.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Quite possibly just spam, Kim.  If he is genuinely new maybe I&#8217;m being a bit hard on him.</p>
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		<title>By: Kim</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/20/lies-damned-lies-and-statistics-women-just-as-violent-as-men/#comment-305475</link>
		<dc:creator>Kim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Aug 2006 12:23:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/20/lies-damned-lies-and-statistics-women-just-as-violent-as-men/#comment-305475</guid>
		<description>Though on the other hand spammers normally know how to post links properly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Though on the other hand spammers normally know how to post links properly.</p>
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		<title>By: Kim</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/20/lies-damned-lies-and-statistics-women-just-as-violent-as-men/#comment-305474</link>
		<dc:creator>Kim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Aug 2006 12:22:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/20/lies-damned-lies-and-statistics-women-just-as-violent-as-men/#comment-305474</guid>
		<description>That comment may just have been spam, tigtog. We could probably find out by actually going to the site but I kinda can&#039;t be bothered on principle.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That comment may just have been spam, tigtog. We could probably find out by actually going to the site but I kinda can&#8217;t be bothered on principle.</p>
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		<title>By: tigtog</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/20/lies-damned-lies-and-statistics-women-just-as-violent-as-men/#comment-305473</link>
		<dc:creator>tigtog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Aug 2006 12:21:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/20/lies-damned-lies-and-statistics-women-just-as-violent-as-men/#comment-305473</guid>
		<description>Thanks for dropping by, Amp.  I&#039;d run out of energy for hunting down that study, but I&#039;m not surprised that just like the other study cited by Mark Richardson the area highlighted by his cite is a cherrypick (said cherrypicking probably arising from a secondary source that MR is cut&#039;n&#039;pasting).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for dropping by, Amp.  I&#8217;d run out of energy for hunting down that study, but I&#8217;m not surprised that just like the other study cited by Mark Richardson the area highlighted by his cite is a cherrypick (said cherrypicking probably arising from a secondary source that MR is cut&#8217;n'pasting).</p>
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		<title>By: Ampersand</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/20/lies-damned-lies-and-statistics-women-just-as-violent-as-men/#comment-305472</link>
		<dc:creator>Ampersand</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Aug 2006 11:46:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/20/lies-damned-lies-and-statistics-women-just-as-violent-as-men/#comment-305472</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;In May of this year a large-scale study found that only 15.7% of domestic violence cases involved male-only violence against women.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

That study uses the Conflict Tactics Scale (CTS); the post gave links to a few excellent criticisms of the CTS. At the risk of being a self-promoter, I&#039;d also add &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/06/26/on-husband-battering-are-men-equal-victims/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this post at my own blog&lt;/a&gt; to the list.

Helen already mentioned one huge problem with both studies cited in the posts you link to: the samples excluded people not currently in a relationship, so all violence by ex-partners was excluded. This is important, for the reason people here have already mentioned: a huge amount of male-on-female relationship violence happens in the context of break-ups. In addition, the particular study you quote statistics from used a convenience sample of students, not a representative sample, so you can&#039;t extrapolate from this study&#039;s results to the general population.

Another sampling problem - one actually mentioned in the study you quote - is that the small minority of people battered so severely and frequently that they need the use of a shelter, isn&#039;t really represented by large-scale studies of general populations (or of students). To quote the same study you&#039;re citing:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Conversely, what is true of the general population does not necessarily apply to clinical populations. To assume that it does has been called the ârepresentative sample fallacyâ? (Straus, 1990b). A simple but important example is the widely held belief that once partner violence starts, it may escalate, but it will not cease. That is correct for samples of women in shelters for battered women. They would not be there if it had ceased. On the other hand, studies of the general population such as Feld and Straus (1989) consistently find high rates of cessation. Thus, policies and practices based on the clinical group may not apply to the general population, just as advice based on the general population may not apply to clinical populations. Similarly, the results of this study concerning gender symmetry in perpetration and in etiology may not apply to severely assaulted and oppressed women, such as those who seek help from a shelter for battered women, or to women who are part of the small percent of violent couples (less than one percent) who have had violence progress to the point of police intervention (Kaufman Kantor &amp; Straus, 1990).&lt;/blockquote&gt;

The total picture is more complex than &quot;women are more violent&quot; versus &quot;men are more violent.&quot; There&#039;s a lot of evidence which shows that many couples have infrequent and relatively less severe violence; this violence is as likely to come from women as from men, and is often mutual. But there&#039;s also considerable evidence that the large majority of victims of the most severe, chronic violence are women.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>In May of this year a large-scale study found that only 15.7% of domestic violence cases involved male-only violence against women.</p></blockquote>
<p>That study uses the Conflict Tactics Scale (CTS); the post gave links to a few excellent criticisms of the CTS. At the risk of being a self-promoter, I&#8217;d also add <a href="http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/06/26/on-husband-battering-are-men-equal-victims/" rel="nofollow">this post at my own blog</a> to the list.</p>
<p>Helen already mentioned one huge problem with both studies cited in the posts you link to: the samples excluded people not currently in a relationship, so all violence by ex-partners was excluded. This is important, for the reason people here have already mentioned: a huge amount of male-on-female relationship violence happens in the context of break-ups. In addition, the particular study you quote statistics from used a convenience sample of students, not a representative sample, so you can&#8217;t extrapolate from this study&#8217;s results to the general population.</p>
<p>Another sampling problem &#8211; one actually mentioned in the study you quote &#8211; is that the small minority of people battered so severely and frequently that they need the use of a shelter, isn&#8217;t really represented by large-scale studies of general populations (or of students). To quote the same study you&#8217;re citing:</p>
<blockquote><p>Conversely, what is true of the general population does not necessarily apply to clinical populations. To assume that it does has been called the ârepresentative sample fallacyâ? (Straus, 1990b). A simple but important example is the widely held belief that once partner violence starts, it may escalate, but it will not cease. That is correct for samples of women in shelters for battered women. They would not be there if it had ceased. On the other hand, studies of the general population such as Feld and Straus (1989) consistently find high rates of cessation. Thus, policies and practices based on the clinical group may not apply to the general population, just as advice based on the general population may not apply to clinical populations. Similarly, the results of this study concerning gender symmetry in perpetration and in etiology may not apply to severely assaulted and oppressed women, such as those who seek help from a shelter for battered women, or to women who are part of the small percent of violent couples (less than one percent) who have had violence progress to the point of police intervention (Kaufman Kantor &amp; Straus, 1990).</p></blockquote>
<p>The total picture is more complex than &#8220;women are more violent&#8221; versus &#8220;men are more violent.&#8221; There&#8217;s a lot of evidence which shows that many couples have infrequent and relatively less severe violence; this violence is as likely to come from women as from men, and is often mutual. But there&#8217;s also considerable evidence that the large majority of victims of the most severe, chronic violence are women.</p>
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		<title>By: tigtog</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/20/lies-damned-lies-and-statistics-women-just-as-violent-as-men/#comment-305471</link>
		<dc:creator>tigtog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Aug 2006 01:09:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/20/lies-damned-lies-and-statistics-women-just-as-violent-as-men/#comment-305471</guid>
		<description>Josh, I&#039;m not going to moderate your post, because right now I&#039;m operating on the &quot;if you can&#039;t be a good example you&#039;ll have to serve as a horrible warning&quot; principle for others.

You are either very new to blogging or astroturf of some sort for a TV series you mention in the first post on your blog.  Either way, none of your posts thus far have anything to do with domestic violence, and thus your blog really isn&#039;t relevant to this thread.

The way to get people to visit your blog is to make a substantive addition to the discussion, so that folks want to click on the URL (that&#039;s linked to your name above the post) to see what other insightful commentary you have to offer on other matters.  What you&#039;ve done above is right on the borderline of spamming, and is seriously frowned upon netiquette-wise.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Josh, I&#8217;m not going to moderate your post, because right now I&#8217;m operating on the &#8220;if you can&#8217;t be a good example you&#8217;ll have to serve as a horrible warning&#8221; principle for others.</p>
<p>You are either very new to blogging or astroturf of some sort for a TV series you mention in the first post on your blog.  Either way, none of your posts thus far have anything to do with domestic violence, and thus your blog really isn&#8217;t relevant to this thread.</p>
<p>The way to get people to visit your blog is to make a substantive addition to the discussion, so that folks want to click on the URL (that&#8217;s linked to your name above the post) to see what other insightful commentary you have to offer on other matters.  What you&#8217;ve done above is right on the borderline of spamming, and is seriously frowned upon netiquette-wise.</p>
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