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	<title>Comments on: Crikey story: the Qld Liberals implode</title>
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	<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/21/crikey-story-the-qld-liberals-implode/</link>
	<description>Life, Culture and Politics from BrisVegas</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 14 Feb 2012 07:31:18 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Kim</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/21/crikey-story-the-qld-liberals-implode/#comment-305851</link>
		<dc:creator>Kim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Aug 2006 16:18:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/21/crikey-story-the-qld-liberals-implode/#comment-305851</guid>
		<description>Why are values set out as an FAQ? 

&lt;blockquote&gt;What&#039;s your view on gay marriages and same-sex access to IVF programs?

I respect people&#039;s sexual preferences between consenting adults. However marriage is something special to a man and a woman. So too is child-birth.

Issues such as gay marriage and same-sex access to IVF programs are only pushed by extremists. The pursuit of these issues is far less important to people in same-sex relationships that I&#039;ve talked to, than a well managed economy, safer streets and a world-class health system.

Do you think tolerance means we have to be &#039;politically correct&#039;?

We can&#039;t afford to allow &#039;political correctness&#039; to gag genuine community debate on a whole range of important issues such as native title, border security and immigration. People should be free to express their views on these issues so long as they aren&#039;t inciting hatred towards others. That&#039;s what democracy is all about.

Too often I have seen well-meaning people who are trying to make a genuine contribution to a debate being accused of not showing tolerance. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

Childbirth is special to a man and a woman? What&#039;s he on about? TEH GAYS are not using stem cells to make blokes pregnant. Perhaps he&#039;s still worried by his google inspired research on the dangers of compulsory feminization through recycled water?

Keerist!

Read what he has to say about picking up tips from &quot;Aboriginal elders&quot; about using &quot;shame and banishment&quot; (whatever that means) as the basis of his criminal justice policy.

I fear the Borg writes his own lines. This is not a good thing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why are values set out as an FAQ? </p>
<blockquote><p>What&#8217;s your view on gay marriages and same-sex access to IVF programs?</p>
<p>I respect people&#8217;s sexual preferences between consenting adults. However marriage is something special to a man and a woman. So too is child-birth.</p>
<p>Issues such as gay marriage and same-sex access to IVF programs are only pushed by extremists. The pursuit of these issues is far less important to people in same-sex relationships that I&#8217;ve talked to, than a well managed economy, safer streets and a world-class health system.</p>
<p>Do you think tolerance means we have to be &#8216;politically correct&#8217;?</p>
<p>We can&#8217;t afford to allow &#8216;political correctness&#8217; to gag genuine community debate on a whole range of important issues such as native title, border security and immigration. People should be free to express their views on these issues so long as they aren&#8217;t inciting hatred towards others. That&#8217;s what democracy is all about.</p>
<p>Too often I have seen well-meaning people who are trying to make a genuine contribution to a debate being accused of not showing tolerance. </p></blockquote>
<p>Childbirth is special to a man and a woman? What&#8217;s he on about? TEH GAYS are not using stem cells to make blokes pregnant. Perhaps he&#8217;s still worried by his google inspired research on the dangers of compulsory feminization through recycled water?</p>
<p>Keerist!</p>
<p>Read what he has to say about picking up tips from &#8220;Aboriginal elders&#8221; about using &#8220;shame and banishment&#8221; (whatever that means) as the basis of his criminal justice policy.</p>
<p>I fear the Borg writes his own lines. This is not a good thing.</p>
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		<title>By: Kim</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/21/crikey-story-the-qld-liberals-implode/#comment-305850</link>
		<dc:creator>Kim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Aug 2006 16:04:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/21/crikey-story-the-qld-liberals-implode/#comment-305850</guid>
		<description>OMG!

I just found the direct link to the Borg&#039;s values.

Here they are:

http://www.springborg.com/key_values.htm</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OMG!</p>
<p>I just found the direct link to the Borg&#8217;s values.</p>
<p>Here they are:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.springborg.com/key_values.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.springborg.com/key_values.htm</a></p>
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		<title>By: Kim</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/21/crikey-story-the-qld-liberals-implode/#comment-305849</link>
		<dc:creator>Kim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Aug 2006 15:52:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/21/crikey-story-the-qld-liberals-implode/#comment-305849</guid>
		<description>Probably the qldcoalition site was set up as some sort of mirror of sprinborg.com after the amalgamation fiasco.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Probably the qldcoalition site was set up as some sort of mirror of sprinborg.com after the amalgamation fiasco.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/21/crikey-story-the-qld-liberals-implode/#comment-305848</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Aug 2006 13:15:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/21/crikey-story-the-qld-liberals-implode/#comment-305848</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s about right, Mick. It&#039;s still perennial weirdness up here. And as Andrew Stafford might say, Brisvegas is still &quot;Pig City&quot;:

http://www.uqp.uq.edu.au/book_details.php?id=0702233609</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s about right, Mick. It&#8217;s still perennial weirdness up here. And as Andrew Stafford might say, Brisvegas is still &#8220;Pig City&#8221;:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.uqp.uq.edu.au/book_details.php?id=0702233609" rel="nofollow">http://www.uqp.uq.edu.au/book_details.php?id=0702233609</a></p>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/21/crikey-story-the-qld-liberals-implode/#comment-305847</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Aug 2006 12:57:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/21/crikey-story-the-qld-liberals-implode/#comment-305847</guid>
		<description>Interesting that the coalition is running a new website at qldcoalition.org.au for this election campaign but it is a case of new flies on  old crap. All the policy listed there seems to be straight National Party propaganda from Springborg.com.

I am waiting with bated breath to see just what the &quot;coalition&quot; puts up as policy on tree-clearing, daylight-saving,Industrial Relations etc. the big issues on the edge of where City meets bush.

The lack of policy development by the Libs will become more obvious as the list grows and the election grows closer. 

It would be a great injustice if a hard working local member like Kerry Shine was outpolled by a Nat who runs a distance second in competence.

Consider the work Kerry Shine has put into rejuvenating the Bush while his opponent has stayed in Toowommba talking rubbish about sewerage. 

The Tory has had his five minutes of fame by pushing the &quot;No&quot; vote to promote himself rather than solving the city&#039;s water problems.

It is doubtful whether this Nat&#039;s obsession with prostitution law reform or getting tough by naming juveniles will benefit anyone  either.  This includes himself  if the coalition&#039;s performance over the past three years is any guide.

If it wasn&#039;t for Patel, they would be 60 to one with the bookies now instead of the flattering odds of six to one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting that the coalition is running a new website at qldcoalition.org.au for this election campaign but it is a case of new flies on  old crap. All the policy listed there seems to be straight National Party propaganda from Springborg.com.</p>
<p>I am waiting with bated breath to see just what the &#8220;coalition&#8221; puts up as policy on tree-clearing, daylight-saving,Industrial Relations etc. the big issues on the edge of where City meets bush.</p>
<p>The lack of policy development by the Libs will become more obvious as the list grows and the election grows closer. </p>
<p>It would be a great injustice if a hard working local member like Kerry Shine was outpolled by a Nat who runs a distance second in competence.</p>
<p>Consider the work Kerry Shine has put into rejuvenating the Bush while his opponent has stayed in Toowommba talking rubbish about sewerage. </p>
<p>The Tory has had his five minutes of fame by pushing the &#8220;No&#8221; vote to promote himself rather than solving the city&#8217;s water problems.</p>
<p>It is doubtful whether this Nat&#8217;s obsession with prostitution law reform or getting tough by naming juveniles will benefit anyone  either.  This includes himself  if the coalition&#8217;s performance over the past three years is any guide.</p>
<p>If it wasn&#8217;t for Patel, they would be 60 to one with the bookies now instead of the flattering odds of six to one.</p>
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		<title>By: Mick Strummer</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/21/crikey-story-the-qld-liberals-implode/#comment-305846</link>
		<dc:creator>Mick Strummer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Aug 2006 12:53:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/21/crikey-story-the-qld-liberals-implode/#comment-305846</guid>
		<description>Ya gotta love politics Qld style. I won&#039;t claim to know much about what actually happens north of the Tweed, but I do remember an old aphorism they used to apply to women. &quot;You can take the girl out of Queensland, but you can never take the Queensland out of the girl....&quot; My impression is that a similar statement could be made about politics in the Sunshine State...
Cheers...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ya gotta love politics Qld style. I won&#8217;t claim to know much about what actually happens north of the Tweed, but I do remember an old aphorism they used to apply to women. &#8220;You can take the girl out of Queensland, but you can never take the Queensland out of the girl&#8230;.&#8221; My impression is that a similar statement could be made about politics in the Sunshine State&#8230;<br />
Cheers&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/21/crikey-story-the-qld-liberals-implode/#comment-305845</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Aug 2006 12:14:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/21/crikey-story-the-qld-liberals-implode/#comment-305845</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s interesting, Kieran. I knew Shelton was aligned with the conservative Christian right, who are a presence in Toowoomba (as elsewhere in Queensland), but I didn&#039;t know much about his previous work on the Council.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s interesting, Kieran. I knew Shelton was aligned with the conservative Christian right, who are a presence in Toowoomba (as elsewhere in Queensland), but I didn&#8217;t know much about his previous work on the Council.</p>
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		<title>By: wpd</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/21/crikey-story-the-qld-liberals-implode/#comment-305844</link>
		<dc:creator>wpd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Aug 2006 11:12:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/21/crikey-story-the-qld-liberals-implode/#comment-305844</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I respect Theodore based on his life story and don’t think Mungana fairly represents all there is to know and admire about the man.&lt;/blockquote&gt; 

Actually CL, I basically agree with your position.  I just wanted to suggest that he wasn&#039;t a saint.  Certainly, he was a man of great ability.

Given history is the flavor of the month, I wonder if James Packer realises Theodore&#039;s contribution to the Packer Dvnasty?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I respect Theodore based on his life story and don’t think Mungana fairly represents all there is to know and admire about the man.</p></blockquote>
<p>Actually CL, I basically agree with your position.  I just wanted to suggest that he wasn&#8217;t a saint.  Certainly, he was a man of great ability.</p>
<p>Given history is the flavor of the month, I wonder if James Packer realises Theodore&#8217;s contribution to the Packer Dvnasty?</p>
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		<title>By: wpd</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/21/crikey-story-the-qld-liberals-implode/#comment-305843</link>
		<dc:creator>wpd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Aug 2006 10:56:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/21/crikey-story-the-qld-liberals-implode/#comment-305843</guid>
		<description>&quot;Paradoxically, however, their instinct may be to rely on the incumbency of the Media Tart they know rather than the Fleggborg they don’t. Where do the Opposition parties go from there, that’s the political/historical question&quot;

IMHO, but based on years of working at reasonably senior levels in government, the Liberals and Nationals as a Coalition face fundamental problems.  

Generally speaking, the Liberals are guided by ‘principle(s)’, and those ‘principles’ affect and effect the way they think and operate. I am referring to State politics here.  At the Federal level, Howard is proving to be an exception?  Maybe??

On the other hand, the Nationals are very good at speaking to people.  They tend to be totally pragmatic.  Winning is the ‘principle’.  Nationals never seem to be limited by ‘principle’.

In my experience, the Liberals and the Nationals dislike each other and a lot of that dislike can be traced to the above.  Of course there are exceptions.  Quinn and Borbidge got on quite well.  But many would argue that Borbidge was never a real National.  Real nationals, such as the Member for Gregory, detested the ‘White Shoe’ Liberals such as Bob Quinn.

I don’t know where the Opposition Parties go from here.  I think Howard was politically correct to oppose the merger of the parties here in QLD.  It would have caused the rise of splinter parties such as One Nation. 

 I travel around Australia a fair bit. And there is no doubt there is a city/country divide.  The ‘bush’ feels that is has been screwed and always respond to politicians who show they ‘understand’.

I think that ‘demographics’ will eventually see the demise of the Nationals.  Springborg recognised this but he was not listened to.  Maybe the solution for the opposition is to see the rise of a charismatic leader who can carry the electorate. The prospects are not good.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Paradoxically, however, their instinct may be to rely on the incumbency of the Media Tart they know rather than the Fleggborg they don’t. Where do the Opposition parties go from there, that’s the political/historical question&#8221;</p>
<p>IMHO, but based on years of working at reasonably senior levels in government, the Liberals and Nationals as a Coalition face fundamental problems.  </p>
<p>Generally speaking, the Liberals are guided by ‘principle(s)’, and those ‘principles’ affect and effect the way they think and operate. I am referring to State politics here.  At the Federal level, Howard is proving to be an exception?  Maybe??</p>
<p>On the other hand, the Nationals are very good at speaking to people.  They tend to be totally pragmatic.  Winning is the ‘principle’.  Nationals never seem to be limited by ‘principle’.</p>
<p>In my experience, the Liberals and the Nationals dislike each other and a lot of that dislike can be traced to the above.  Of course there are exceptions.  Quinn and Borbidge got on quite well.  But many would argue that Borbidge was never a real National.  Real nationals, such as the Member for Gregory, detested the ‘White Shoe’ Liberals such as Bob Quinn.</p>
<p>I don’t know where the Opposition Parties go from here.  I think Howard was politically correct to oppose the merger of the parties here in QLD.  It would have caused the rise of splinter parties such as One Nation. </p>
<p> I travel around Australia a fair bit. And there is no doubt there is a city/country divide.  The ‘bush’ feels that is has been screwed and always respond to politicians who show they ‘understand’.</p>
<p>I think that ‘demographics’ will eventually see the demise of the Nationals.  Springborg recognised this but he was not listened to.  Maybe the solution for the opposition is to see the rise of a charismatic leader who can carry the electorate. The prospects are not good.</p>
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		<title>By: Kieran</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/21/crikey-story-the-qld-liberals-implode/#comment-305842</link>
		<dc:creator>Kieran</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Aug 2006 10:23:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/21/crikey-story-the-qld-liberals-implode/#comment-305842</guid>
		<description>Mark: re. Shelton.  Yes.  Even in Toowoomba, I have my doubts as to whether he&#039;s as popular as perceived.  The man represents, essentially, the Christian far-right, within the city.  I just don&#039;t think people care that much, even if they reflexively agree with some of the same positions as he might.

Before the water thing, he was mostly obsessed with prostitution, and did himself no favours by, frankly, appearing to neglect the rather more practical business of council work.

So he might win, but if Kerry Shine has put in the leg-work - and it seems he has - that surely must count for something.  I am not a betting person.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark: re. Shelton.  Yes.  Even in Toowoomba, I have my doubts as to whether he&#8217;s as popular as perceived.  The man represents, essentially, the Christian far-right, within the city.  I just don&#8217;t think people care that much, even if they reflexively agree with some of the same positions as he might.</p>
<p>Before the water thing, he was mostly obsessed with prostitution, and did himself no favours by, frankly, appearing to neglect the rather more practical business of council work.</p>
<p>So he might win, but if Kerry Shine has put in the leg-work &#8211; and it seems he has &#8211; that surely must count for something.  I am not a betting person.</p>
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