Comments on: The Google Wars™ http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/22/the-google-wars%e2%84%a2/ Life, Culture and Politics from BrisVegas Tue, 14 Feb 2012 07:51:41 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3 By: Peter Jackman http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/22/the-google-wars%e2%84%a2/#comment-305969 Peter Jackman Sun, 10 Sep 2006 10:32:00 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/22/the-google-wars%e2%84%a2/#comment-305969 As a reader of "The West Australian" wrote later: "After reading our Education Minister's latest fatuous remarks, this time on the value of letting Google do the learning, I await, in fear and trepidation, her valuable tips on how to engage students so they will want to learn." Marina Foster, Menora [Letter to the Editor of The West Australian, published 23 August 2006] As a reader of “The West Australian” wrote later: “After reading our Education Minister’s latest fatuous remarks, this time on the value of letting Google do the learning, I await, in fear and trepidation, her valuable tips on how to engage students so they will want to learn.” Marina Foster, Menora [Letter to the Editor of The West Australian, published 23 August 2006]

]]> By: Anna Winter http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/22/the-google-wars%e2%84%a2/#comment-305968 Anna Winter Wed, 23 Aug 2006 06:53:47 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/22/the-google-wars%e2%84%a2/#comment-305968 Update: Partial transcript of interview with Beazley yesterday added to post. Update: Partial transcript of interview with Beazley yesterday added to post.

]]> By: RumRebellious http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/22/the-google-wars%e2%84%a2/#comment-305967 RumRebellious Wed, 23 Aug 2006 06:34:00 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/22/the-google-wars%e2%84%a2/#comment-305967 I googled "History Wars". So while we're talking dates when did this current war start? *Confused* I googled “History Wars”. So while we’re talking dates when did this current war start?

*Confused*

]]> By: Rob http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/22/the-google-wars%e2%84%a2/#comment-305966 Rob Wed, 23 Aug 2006 03:37:58 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/22/the-google-wars%e2%84%a2/#comment-305966 Depends what level of education you're talking about, Kate. History is about more than sequences, to be sure, but it's still the best way to start. From there you go to connections, interpretations, meanings, and it gets more complex and demanding as you go. Finally, if you're a Foucaudian, you have all the fun of working backwards -- deconstructing meanings, interpretations and connections, and finally de-sequencing ("Historical events are irruptive in their specificity; all explanation is imposed by the exteriror discourse"). At which point you realise you have denuded the historical landscape of significance and have to start all over again. Wonderful discipline, history. Depends what level of education you’re talking about, Kate. History is about more than sequences, to be sure, but it’s still the best way to start. From there you go to connections, interpretations, meanings, and it gets more complex and demanding as you go. Finally, if you’re a Foucaudian, you have all the fun of working backwards — deconstructing meanings, interpretations and connections, and finally de-sequencing (“Historical events are irruptive in their specificity; all explanation is imposed by the exteriror discourse”). At which point you realise you have denuded the historical landscape of significance and have to start all over again. Wonderful discipline, history.

]]> By: dj http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/22/the-google-wars%e2%84%a2/#comment-305965 dj Wed, 23 Aug 2006 02:08:26 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/22/the-google-wars%e2%84%a2/#comment-305965 Cataloguing is an extremely powerful tool when done well. Poor cataloguing might be equivalent to indexing, but good cataloguing saves time and is very useful. Cataloguing is an extremely powerful tool when done well. Poor cataloguing might be equivalent to indexing, but good cataloguing saves time and is very useful.

]]> By: Kate http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/22/the-google-wars%e2%84%a2/#comment-305964 Kate Wed, 23 Aug 2006 00:54:17 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/22/the-google-wars%e2%84%a2/#comment-305964 Did someone mention teh university of teh Internets? I agree with Laura -- marking third year essays which only cite Wikipedia shows exactly why students need to be taught the framework of scholarship. History needs historiography, etc, and not just facts. That said, I have an appalling memory for dates but a good understanding of context etc. I did very well at uni in history but I always used to have develop mnemonics and spend literally hours learning dates for exams because I just can't keep numbers in my head. I always knew the facts, but not the years in which they occured. Did someone mention teh university of teh Internets?

I agree with Laura — marking third year essays which only cite Wikipedia shows exactly why students need to be taught the framework of scholarship. History needs historiography, etc, and not just facts.

That said, I have an appalling memory for dates but a good understanding of context etc. I did very well at uni in history but I always used to have develop mnemonics and spend literally hours learning dates for exams because I just can’t keep numbers in my head. I always knew the facts, but not the years in which they occured.

]]> By: Kim http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/22/the-google-wars%e2%84%a2/#comment-305963 Kim Wed, 23 Aug 2006 00:42:12 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/22/the-google-wars%e2%84%a2/#comment-305963 No. No.

]]> By: Chris http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/22/the-google-wars%e2%84%a2/#comment-305962 Chris Wed, 23 Aug 2006 00:28:19 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/22/the-google-wars%e2%84%a2/#comment-305962 Kim said: <blockquote>I’d add that libraries themselves have been dumbed down. Cataloguing used to be an art. But now staff are few and far between and it’s “easierâ€? to take the publisher’s online description and chuck it into your software.</blockquote> Do you think that Google's approach of attemping to index the entire text of just about everything they can get their hands on (papers/books/journals etc) will adequately replace the art of cataloguing? Kim said:

I’d add that libraries themselves have been dumbed down. Cataloguing used to be an art. But now staff are few and far between and it’s “easierâ€? to take the publisher’s online description and chuck it into your software.

Do you think that Google’s approach of attemping to index the entire text of just about everything they can get their hands on (papers/books/journals etc) will adequately replace the art of cataloguing?

]]> By: Katz http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/22/the-google-wars%e2%84%a2/#comment-305961 Katz Tue, 22 Aug 2006 20:52:22 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/22/the-google-wars%e2%84%a2/#comment-305961 <blockquote>Rob on 22 August 2006 at 9:58 pm Good one, Obs. “Past wisdom and past experience“, maybe.</blockquote> There ya go Obby. Rob thought your <em>bon mot</em> was so good he decided to improve it! Which version to lampoon? Decisions, decisions. OK Rob You're it. <blockquote>“When the present looks dodgy because of ignorance of past wisdom <em>and past experience</em>, the future is a convenient escape.â€?</blockquote> So I take it, my fine moss-backed interlocutors, you are implying that we have always had this wisdom and/or any attempt to improve upon it will just lead to Bad Things. So it came to pass some time in the dim past someone said: "Maybe it isn't a very useful thing to continue to throw virgins into the volcano. The crops don't seem to improve no matter how many we chuck in. Maybe we'd get better crops if we set these virgins to hoeing the garden instead." The elders of the tribe would have shaken their shaggy locks and intoned: "Ah, you radicals, when the present looks dodgy because of ignorance of past wisdom and past experience (thanx Elder Rob) the future is a convenient escape." Obby and Rob, your tag-team cracker barrel philosophy allows for no escape from old ways. But you've proven that things can get better. After all, didn't Rob immensely improve Obby's stumbling excursion into aphorism?

Rob on 22 August 2006 at 9:58 pm

Good one, Obs. “Past wisdom and past experience“, maybe.

There ya go Obby. Rob thought your bon mot was so good he decided to improve it!

Which version to lampoon? Decisions, decisions.

OK Rob You’re it.

“When the present looks dodgy because of ignorance of past wisdom and past experience, the future is a convenient escape.â€?

So I take it, my fine moss-backed interlocutors, you are implying that we have always had this wisdom and/or any attempt to improve upon it will just lead to Bad Things.

So it came to pass some time in the dim past someone said: “Maybe it isn’t a very useful thing to continue to throw virgins into the volcano. The crops don’t seem to improve no matter how many we chuck in. Maybe we’d get better crops if we set these virgins to hoeing the garden instead.”

The elders of the tribe would have shaken their shaggy locks and intoned: “Ah, you radicals, when the present looks dodgy because of ignorance of past wisdom and past experience (thanx Elder Rob) the future is a convenient escape.”

Obby and Rob, your tag-team cracker barrel philosophy allows for no escape from old ways.

But you’ve proven that things can get better. After all, didn’t Rob immensely improve Obby’s stumbling excursion into aphorism?

]]> By: Kim http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/22/the-google-wars%e2%84%a2/#comment-305960 Kim Tue, 22 Aug 2006 13:40:25 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/22/the-google-wars%e2%84%a2/#comment-305960 I'd add that libraries themselves have been dumbed down. Cataloguing used to be an art. But now staff are few and far between and it's "easier" to take the publisher's online description and chuck it into your software. But publishers try and cover all their bases to sell books - hence "this book will be of great interest to students of politics, anthropology, sociology, cultural studies and psychology". That might end up being categorised arbitrarily as psychology by an overworked librarian. But really it's just marketing, and you have to think about the influence of commerce and managerialism on the classification of knowledge as well as its production. I’d add that libraries themselves have been dumbed down. Cataloguing used to be an art. But now staff are few and far between and it’s “easier” to take the publisher’s online description and chuck it into your software. But publishers try and cover all their bases to sell books – hence “this book will be of great interest to students of politics, anthropology, sociology, cultural studies and psychology”. That might end up being categorised arbitrarily as psychology by an overworked librarian. But really it’s just marketing, and you have to think about the influence of commerce and managerialism on the classification of knowledge as well as its production.

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