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	<title>Comments on: Crikey story: Leadership</title>
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	<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/26/crikey-story-leadership/</link>
	<description>Life, Culture and Politics from BrisVegas</description>
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		<title>By: Graham Bell</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/26/crikey-story-leadership/#comment-306890</link>
		<dc:creator>Graham Bell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Aug 2006 11:32:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/26/crikey-story-leadership/#comment-306890</guid>
		<description>wpd:
Good points, so far as they go, about Liberal and Labor talent in Queensland.  Federal Labor is certainly the poorer for not having Con Sciacca in Canberra..

Thankfully, you omitted a few names that became synonymous with sloth, dodginess, bullying, drunkardness and incompetence (on both sides of politics) .... However, you did mention Chalk, not really a good idea since we are all still paying through the nose for his presence in the Queensland Parliament; some may call his decisions &quot;unwise&quot; but other adjectives  come much more readily to mind.  

Whatever his faults, I&#039;m sure Dr Flegg is a far better man than was Sir Gordon Chalk.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>wpd:<br />
Good points, so far as they go, about Liberal and Labor talent in Queensland.  Federal Labor is certainly the poorer for not having Con Sciacca in Canberra..</p>
<p>Thankfully, you omitted a few names that became synonymous with sloth, dodginess, bullying, drunkardness and incompetence (on both sides of politics) &#8230;. However, you did mention Chalk, not really a good idea since we are all still paying through the nose for his presence in the Queensland Parliament; some may call his decisions &#8220;unwise&#8221; but other adjectives  come much more readily to mind.  </p>
<p>Whatever his faults, I&#8217;m sure Dr Flegg is a far better man than was Sir Gordon Chalk.</p>
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		<title>By: Graham Bell</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/26/crikey-story-leadership/#comment-306889</link>
		<dc:creator>Graham Bell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Aug 2006 10:05:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/26/crikey-story-leadership/#comment-306889</guid>
		<description>wpd:
I certainly do not question at all Dr Flegg&#039;s right to a DVA pension if he has an injury or disorder that was caused by service; if he has been affected then he is just as entitled to a DVA pension as anyone else similarly affected; that&#039;s his right and accepting such a pension, whether it be only 10% or up to full TPI pension years before, has nothing to do political wisdom.

The outrage arises not out of whether Dr Flegg needs the money or not (it would be only small change to him) but out of the unexposed injustices that have been committed, by a thoroughly biased system, against ordinary ex-diggers injured or ill because of their war service.  Of course, there is an &quot;appeal&quot; process .... for those with very deep pockets and all the right connections - and mixing socially with Senior Counsel and well-known experts and specialists doesn&#039;t hurt one&#039;s chances of getting a DVA pension one little bit.
&lt;blockquote&gt;I believe that Flegg’s situation will evoke protests from those who feel agrieved.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
That may indeed happen .... but given the news media&#039;s track-record on dealing with red-hot stuff from war veterans during an election campaign, we won&#039;t get to hear about any of it until hours after the polls have closed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>wpd:<br />
I certainly do not question at all Dr Flegg&#8217;s right to a DVA pension if he has an injury or disorder that was caused by service; if he has been affected then he is just as entitled to a DVA pension as anyone else similarly affected; that&#8217;s his right and accepting such a pension, whether it be only 10% or up to full TPI pension years before, has nothing to do political wisdom.</p>
<p>The outrage arises not out of whether Dr Flegg needs the money or not (it would be only small change to him) but out of the unexposed injustices that have been committed, by a thoroughly biased system, against ordinary ex-diggers injured or ill because of their war service.  Of course, there is an &#8220;appeal&#8221; process &#8230;. for those with very deep pockets and all the right connections &#8211; and mixing socially with Senior Counsel and well-known experts and specialists doesn&#8217;t hurt one&#8217;s chances of getting a DVA pension one little bit.</p>
<blockquote><p>I believe that Flegg’s situation will evoke protests from those who feel agrieved.</p></blockquote>
<p>That may indeed happen &#8230;. but given the news media&#8217;s track-record on dealing with red-hot stuff from war veterans during an election campaign, we won&#8217;t get to hear about any of it until hours after the polls have closed.</p>
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		<title>By: wpd</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/26/crikey-story-leadership/#comment-306888</link>
		<dc:creator>wpd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Aug 2006 08:43:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/26/crikey-story-leadership/#comment-306888</guid>
		<description>Graham Bell and Douglas Mc Donald, a couple of points.  First, I didn&#039;t question Doctor Flegg&#039;s right to a pension.  I was just questioning the political wisdom of him accepting same.  Also I thank you for the information that some  ex-servicemen and women close to the action think that &#039;fiddles&#039; occur. I believe that Flegg&#039;s situation will evoke protests from those who feel agrieved.

Second, the notion that there is no Liberal talent at the State level might be a bit tough, particularly if one takes a longer historical perspective.  For example, at the State level, the Liberals have had leaders such as Dr Edwards, Terry White and Gordon Chalk.

At the Federal level, current Labor representatives include Kevin Rudd, Wayne Swan, Dr Craig Emerson and Arch Bevis.  I am not convinced that the average State ALP member of Parliament is somehow superior to those mentioned above.

Also I am not convinced that QLD Liberal federal members of Parliament are rare talents.

But I am open to suggestion.

PS, Flegg of the &#039;blonde day&#039; fame is now in a fight with his private Secretary whose hair colour is decidely ???.  No need to tell you the answer is there?  But it is not red, brown, etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Graham Bell and Douglas Mc Donald, a couple of points.  First, I didn&#8217;t question Doctor Flegg&#8217;s right to a pension.  I was just questioning the political wisdom of him accepting same.  Also I thank you for the information that some  ex-servicemen and women close to the action think that &#8216;fiddles&#8217; occur. I believe that Flegg&#8217;s situation will evoke protests from those who feel agrieved.</p>
<p>Second, the notion that there is no Liberal talent at the State level might be a bit tough, particularly if one takes a longer historical perspective.  For example, at the State level, the Liberals have had leaders such as Dr Edwards, Terry White and Gordon Chalk.</p>
<p>At the Federal level, current Labor representatives include Kevin Rudd, Wayne Swan, Dr Craig Emerson and Arch Bevis.  I am not convinced that the average State ALP member of Parliament is somehow superior to those mentioned above.</p>
<p>Also I am not convinced that QLD Liberal federal members of Parliament are rare talents.</p>
<p>But I am open to suggestion.</p>
<p>PS, Flegg of the &#8216;blonde day&#8217; fame is now in a fight with his private Secretary whose hair colour is decidely ???.  No need to tell you the answer is there?  But it is not red, brown, etc.</p>
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		<title>By: Graham Bell</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/26/crikey-story-leadership/#comment-306887</link>
		<dc:creator>Graham Bell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Aug 2006 08:12:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/26/crikey-story-leadership/#comment-306887</guid>
		<description>Angharad [at 10:52am]:
Ooops, sorry; left you out of my last post.  

Douglas McDonald summed it up beautifully in his 3:12pm post.  

Given that the Liberals are more interested in playing politics than in doing politics, the possibility that Flegg was deliberately sent to a shopping centre without a permit cannot be excluded.  A good way to tell what&#039;s really happening is to count the number of knives in his back at any given moment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Angharad [at 10:52am]:<br />
Ooops, sorry; left you out of my last post.  </p>
<p>Douglas McDonald summed it up beautifully in his 3:12pm post.  </p>
<p>Given that the Liberals are more interested in playing politics than in doing politics, the possibility that Flegg was deliberately sent to a shopping centre without a permit cannot be excluded.  A good way to tell what&#8217;s really happening is to count the number of knives in his back at any given moment.</p>
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		<title>By: Graham Bell</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/26/crikey-story-leadership/#comment-306886</link>
		<dc:creator>Graham Bell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Aug 2006 07:54:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/26/crikey-story-leadership/#comment-306886</guid>
		<description>Tyro Rex:
Haven&#039;t seen the latest news yet.   Nowadays, nothing these DVA people or their &quot;contractors&quot; do would surprise me .... but since they fly beneath the radar of either political activists or journalists they can do whatever they like without any criticism .... and don&#039;t expect too many officials in ex-service organizations to risk their pensions by kicking up a rumpus either.

Douglas McDonald [at 3:12pm]: &lt;blockquote&gt;It’s the same old story. Anyone remotely competent on the Liberal side goes into federal politics, because they can’t win in state, anyone remotely competent on the Labor side goes into state politics, since they can’t win in federal, and any truly charismatic independents go local, since they can’t win in federal or state. So we end up with hopeless Laborites in federal and hopeless Liberals in state, which just encourages more voters to entrench governments, and so the cycle continues.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
How true ..... and how sad.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tyro Rex:<br />
Haven&#8217;t seen the latest news yet.   Nowadays, nothing these DVA people or their &#8220;contractors&#8221; do would surprise me &#8230;. but since they fly beneath the radar of either political activists or journalists they can do whatever they like without any criticism &#8230;. and don&#8217;t expect too many officials in ex-service organizations to risk their pensions by kicking up a rumpus either.</p>
<p>Douglas McDonald [at 3:12pm]:<br />
<blockquote>It’s the same old story. Anyone remotely competent on the Liberal side goes into federal politics, because they can’t win in state, anyone remotely competent on the Labor side goes into state politics, since they can’t win in federal, and any truly charismatic independents go local, since they can’t win in federal or state. So we end up with hopeless Laborites in federal and hopeless Liberals in state, which just encourages more voters to entrench governments, and so the cycle continues.</p></blockquote>
<p>How true &#8230;.. and how sad.</p>
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		<title>By: Katz</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/26/crikey-story-leadership/#comment-306885</link>
		<dc:creator>Katz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Aug 2006 07:30:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/26/crikey-story-leadership/#comment-306885</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;The only way Labor will ever lose power in the states is once they’re abolished.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Hell will freeze over before that happens.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>The only way Labor will ever lose power in the states is once they’re abolished.</p></blockquote>
<p>Hell will freeze over before that happens.</p>
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		<title>By: Douglas McDonald</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/26/crikey-story-leadership/#comment-306884</link>
		<dc:creator>Douglas McDonald</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Aug 2006 05:12:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/26/crikey-story-leadership/#comment-306884</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s the same old story. Anyone remotely competent on the Liberal side goes into federal politics, because they can&#039;t win in state, anyone remotely competent on the Labor side goes into state politics, since they can&#039;t win in federal, and any truly charismatic independents go local, since they can&#039;t win in federal or state. So we end up with hopeless Laborites in federal and hopeless Liberals in state, which just encourages more voters to entrench governments, and so the cycle continues.

The only way Labor will ever lose power in the states is once they&#039;re abolished. Now THAT will shake up the party system. Once people can&#039;t have their reliable mummy/daddy parties in different levels of government, which way will they vote?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s the same old story. Anyone remotely competent on the Liberal side goes into federal politics, because they can&#8217;t win in state, anyone remotely competent on the Labor side goes into state politics, since they can&#8217;t win in federal, and any truly charismatic independents go local, since they can&#8217;t win in federal or state. So we end up with hopeless Laborites in federal and hopeless Liberals in state, which just encourages more voters to entrench governments, and so the cycle continues.</p>
<p>The only way Labor will ever lose power in the states is once they&#8217;re abolished. Now THAT will shake up the party system. Once people can&#8217;t have their reliable mummy/daddy parties in different levels of government, which way will they vote?</p>
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		<title>By: Tyro Rex</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/26/crikey-story-leadership/#comment-306883</link>
		<dc:creator>Tyro Rex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Aug 2006 04:53:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/26/crikey-story-leadership/#comment-306883</guid>
		<description>Didn&#039;t I read in the herald today that the Federal Govt. has set a team of private investigators onto some people claiming repat. pensions as a result of recent conflicts?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Didn&#8217;t I read in the herald today that the Federal Govt. has set a team of private investigators onto some people claiming repat. pensions as a result of recent conflicts?</p>
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		<title>By: Graham Bell</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/26/crikey-story-leadership/#comment-306882</link>
		<dc:creator>Graham Bell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Aug 2006 04:24:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/26/crikey-story-leadership/#comment-306882</guid>
		<description>wpd, Brian and Mark:
There&#039;s a thoroughly decent tradition that any disability component of a Repatriation (now Veterans&#039; Affairs) pension arose out of injury or illness suffered as a result of war service should be exempt from income testing.   After all, being under enemy fire in disease-ridden jungle makes everyone terribly equal, regardless of wealth or social position back in Australia. 

Nice tradition.  Pity it has been so weakened over the past few decades by pension-determining practices that do seem to be possibly based on rank and on one&#039;s circle of contacts rather than on either strict internationally-accepted clinical features or on the actual nature of one&#039;s own war service.  Unfair?  My oath!   Just don&#039;t expect any Royal Commission into Dept. of Veterans&#039; Affairs and its associated &quot;independent&quot; [L-O-L] authorities anytime this century; it would put too many vested interests at risk. 

I dunno.  Maybe Flegg&#039;s case just might bring a few rejected and very very embittered war veterans out of the woodwork and add yet another exciting and dramatic Federal aspect to what started out as a State election.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>wpd, Brian and Mark:<br />
There&#8217;s a thoroughly decent tradition that any disability component of a Repatriation (now Veterans&#8217; Affairs) pension arose out of injury or illness suffered as a result of war service should be exempt from income testing.   After all, being under enemy fire in disease-ridden jungle makes everyone terribly equal, regardless of wealth or social position back in Australia. </p>
<p>Nice tradition.  Pity it has been so weakened over the past few decades by pension-determining practices that do seem to be possibly based on rank and on one&#8217;s circle of contacts rather than on either strict internationally-accepted clinical features or on the actual nature of one&#8217;s own war service.  Unfair?  My oath!   Just don&#8217;t expect any Royal Commission into Dept. of Veterans&#8217; Affairs and its associated &#8220;independent&#8221; [L-O-L] authorities anytime this century; it would put too many vested interests at risk. </p>
<p>I dunno.  Maybe Flegg&#8217;s case just might bring a few rejected and very very embittered war veterans out of the woodwork and add yet another exciting and dramatic Federal aspect to what started out as a State election.</p>
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		<title>By: Katz</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/26/crikey-story-leadership/#comment-306881</link>
		<dc:creator>Katz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Aug 2006 02:59:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/08/26/crikey-story-leadership/#comment-306881</guid>
		<description>The more general aspect of this story is the sorry state of anti-Labor forces at the state level.

Perhaps, state Liberal parties are under a handicap, given the propensity for some voters to refuse to give one party power at both the federal and state levels.

However, that doesn&#039;t explain the dysfunctionality of state Liberal parties the length and breadth of Australia.

The GST settlement has proven to be a bonanza for state governments. They are flush with funds. And it appears that voters are happy with the way state ALP governments handle their spending priorities.

So long as ALP parties aren&#039;t stampeded by law &#039;n&#039; order and culture wars issues, they appear to be ensconced on the Treasury Benches for the foreseeable future.

From the point of view of careerism, given the ALP monopoly over state administrations, they have far more patronage to dispense than the Federal Liberal Party. Apparatchiks follow the money into the ample bosom of the ALP.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The more general aspect of this story is the sorry state of anti-Labor forces at the state level.</p>
<p>Perhaps, state Liberal parties are under a handicap, given the propensity for some voters to refuse to give one party power at both the federal and state levels.</p>
<p>However, that doesn&#8217;t explain the dysfunctionality of state Liberal parties the length and breadth of Australia.</p>
<p>The GST settlement has proven to be a bonanza for state governments. They are flush with funds. And it appears that voters are happy with the way state ALP governments handle their spending priorities.</p>
<p>So long as ALP parties aren&#8217;t stampeded by law &#8216;n&#8217; order and culture wars issues, they appear to be ensconced on the Treasury Benches for the foreseeable future.</p>
<p>From the point of view of careerism, given the ALP monopoly over state administrations, they have far more patronage to dispense than the Federal Liberal Party. Apparatchiks follow the money into the ample bosom of the ALP.</p>
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