Hope the title did not confuse you given who we call Liberals downunder.

To try and blame Howard for it, despite him wanting to cut this tax (and being howled down by the left for suggesting it) is beyond ridiculous.

So Mr Howard didn’t cut the tax because the left howled him down?? Yobbo, you’d better cut back on your medication.

I know a fair few of a particular group of expats- lawyers who work (as I did) in the UK. Nearly all of them recognised that fiscally they were better off in Oz, taking into account cost of living, though I’ve known a couple of stupendously compensated exceptions.

Whilst it obviously depends on the country and profession, I was certainly better off working in the US a few years ago than being in Australia. The recent tax changes might have balanced things out a bit more. Friends in other parts of the US and UK have had similar experiences. I think one of the differences is that the ceiling on salaries is much higher than in Australia.

I’ve known other people who have moved to really low tax countries to save up money who plan to move back when they have kids of school age.

For most it was actually type of work- the sort of specialist experience you only get in a more internationalised market. Something that Australia’s recent antagonism towards multilateralism hasn’t helped.

Agreed. One other aspect is just the problem of travel. Its much easier and cheaper to attend conferences in the US and even Europe if you live in the US. And even more day-to-day communication is easier – 2am or 4am conference calls aren’t that much fun.

But coming back to pay, Yob may be half right. Isn’t it more likely to be the fact that leading US and European Unis can pay bucketloads to top researchers that provides any fiscal incentive?

A lot more privately funded research over there too.

I would suggest that the major grievance that lies behind Ian Lowe’s complaint (above) is the inordinately large influence that government policy has upon science in Australia.

Unlike the US and many European countries, in Australia government funding is the only game in town. Private patronage of research is puny compared with leading research cultures. This is an indictment of Australian benefactors and Australian entrepreneurs.

Now, under a relatively enlightened government regime, the dependence on public largesse is not a critical issue. Traditionally, governments have allowed Universities and the CSIRO some autonomy in setting their research agendas.

But along comes the Howard government, reacting to pressure groups and blowing their own political dog whistles. The result is further intrusion into scientific enquiry.

And for some, this intrusion is enough to send them overseas.

For others, they stay and complain, remembering how things were in the “good old days”.

Bottom line: the “good old days” really weren’t good enough. Where are the private and corporate benefactors with sufficient courage to deliver Australian science from the clutches of Howard’s control freaks?

Damn’, forgot the sarcasm tags.

To be perfectly frank, European and US scientists do not come to Australia for *scientific* reasons. I came over for family reasons. The pay here is just as crap as it was in the UK and the tax burden seems similar. The standard of living and quality of life is better over here.
And oh God, I wish I was being paid so that I got taxed in the higher bracket, in either country. It’s not about the money.

People are leaving because the science is better abroad, you don’t get folk still giving seminars about and living off work they did 20 years ago (as much), and you don’t get the government saying, “Hey, Johnny Scientist – work on *this* and make us lots of money” anywhere near the extent you do here (and in the same breath, proscribing two large, important and exciting fields).

And the altruism thing – most of my colleagues would love to be paid more (i.e. concomitant with the amount of training we’ve all done), and would love a decent career structure (eh, I should dig up some links to show you how bad it is in the US, try googling for keywords nih postdoc salary career structure) and working hours that mean we can have a family life – but the fuckers in government know that we do this job because we’re bloody well addicted to it and have us over the proverbial barrel. Without lubricant.

No we just listen to the PS teaching unions and the like to gauge all this leftist altruism wafting about the ether.

Now back to the issue at hand. Yes banning cloning will have some impact on the science fraternity just like banning certain nuclear technology does. What’s your point Professor Mengele?