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	<title>Comments on: What, then, does Pope Benedict mean?</title>
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	<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/09/18/what-then-does-pope-benedict-mean/</link>
	<description>Life, Culture and Politics from BrisVegas</description>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/09/18/what-then-does-pope-benedict-mean/#comment-300334</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Sep 2006 02:25:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/09/18/what-then-does-pope-benedict-mean/#comment-300334</guid>
		<description>I specifically asked people not to get into this ridiculous &quot;x have killed more people than y&quot; debate - and evidently that&#039;s been a request made in vain. As I&#039;m working all this afternoon, I won&#039;t have time to police this - so I&#039;m going to close the thread. If anyone has any contribution to make that&#039;s on topic, please email me at mbahnisch (at) gmail (dot) com and I&#039;ll re-open the thread later.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I specifically asked people not to get into this ridiculous &#8220;x have killed more people than y&#8221; debate &#8211; and evidently that&#8217;s been a request made in vain. As I&#8217;m working all this afternoon, I won&#8217;t have time to police this &#8211; so I&#8217;m going to close the thread. If anyone has any contribution to make that&#8217;s on topic, please email me at mbahnisch (at) gmail (dot) com and I&#8217;ll re-open the thread later.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Edwards</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/09/18/what-then-does-pope-benedict-mean/#comment-300333</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Edwards</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Sep 2006 02:21:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/09/18/what-then-does-pope-benedict-mean/#comment-300333</guid>
		<description>&quot;This outweighs the death toll from Islamofascist terrorism by at least one hundred to one.&quot;

This is an utter lie from start to finish - the death toll in southern Sudan since the early 1990s has far outstripped the Rwandan genocide and the Bosnian &quot;genocide&quot; put together; here&#039;s a hint - it was instigated at the hands of an Islamist government. I could add scores of thousands killed by murderous fanatics across the entire Sahel, Nigeria, Indonesia, etc, but I think you get the point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;This outweighs the death toll from Islamofascist terrorism by at least one hundred to one.&#8221;</p>
<p>This is an utter lie from start to finish &#8211; the death toll in southern Sudan since the early 1990s has far outstripped the Rwandan genocide and the Bosnian &#8220;genocide&#8221; put together; here&#8217;s a hint &#8211; it was instigated at the hands of an Islamist government. I could add scores of thousands killed by murderous fanatics across the entire Sahel, Nigeria, Indonesia, etc, but I think you get the point.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Edwards</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/09/18/what-then-does-pope-benedict-mean/#comment-300332</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Edwards</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Sep 2006 02:13:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/09/18/what-then-does-pope-benedict-mean/#comment-300332</guid>
		<description>&quot;Of course we need to be prudently vague about our characterisations of a faith adhered to by one billion homo sapiens.&quot;

And why on earth should that be the case, other than that a vocal group of rancourous barbarians are unreconciled with the scientific method and are willing to spill blood in their efforts to destroy the entire edifice of humanity&#039;s progress? There has been no shortage of &quot;non-vague&quot; &quot;characterisations&quot; of another particular &quot;faith&quot; held by, say, 1.5 to 2 billion homo sapiens, so precisely why bother treading lightly now? The simple fact is this - if you are a genuine &quot;secularist&quot; (meaning somebody who, whatever their private rituals, is an ardent opponent of coercing people on the basis of faith or superstition), then you can have no principled reason to withold your fire simply because the delicate sensibilities of your targets might be upset, and they be driven to murderous violence. 

Allow me to be epistemologically blunt - Muslims, as with all other religions, uphold a belief system that is unfalsifiable; that is, it is neither proven, nor even able to subject itself to empirical proof. Of course, they oppose rational enquiry for others&#039; benefit, but necessarily demand it for themselves. To then insist that your &quot;faith&quot; which, as far as you can prove, may well be a load of emotional gibberish, should be firewalled from the warranted intellectual attacks of people who DON&#039;T believe public life should be held to ransom by mythical beings, is just unbelievable hypocrisy - and utterly immoral. Muslims are currently by far the worst offenders in this regard, and like Christians did three or so centuries ago, they need to learn to GROW UP.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Of course we need to be prudently vague about our characterisations of a faith adhered to by one billion homo sapiens.&#8221;</p>
<p>And why on earth should that be the case, other than that a vocal group of rancourous barbarians are unreconciled with the scientific method and are willing to spill blood in their efforts to destroy the entire edifice of humanity&#8217;s progress? There has been no shortage of &#8220;non-vague&#8221; &#8220;characterisations&#8221; of another particular &#8220;faith&#8221; held by, say, 1.5 to 2 billion homo sapiens, so precisely why bother treading lightly now? The simple fact is this &#8211; if you are a genuine &#8220;secularist&#8221; (meaning somebody who, whatever their private rituals, is an ardent opponent of coercing people on the basis of faith or superstition), then you can have no principled reason to withold your fire simply because the delicate sensibilities of your targets might be upset, and they be driven to murderous violence. </p>
<p>Allow me to be epistemologically blunt &#8211; Muslims, as with all other religions, uphold a belief system that is unfalsifiable; that is, it is neither proven, nor even able to subject itself to empirical proof. Of course, they oppose rational enquiry for others&#8217; benefit, but necessarily demand it for themselves. To then insist that your &#8220;faith&#8221; which, as far as you can prove, may well be a load of emotional gibberish, should be firewalled from the warranted intellectual attacks of people who DON&#8217;T believe public life should be held to ransom by mythical beings, is just unbelievable hypocrisy &#8211; and utterly immoral. Muslims are currently by far the worst offenders in this regard, and like Christians did three or so centuries ago, they need to learn to GROW UP.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Watson</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/09/18/what-then-does-pope-benedict-mean/#comment-300331</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Watson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Sep 2006 01:39:26 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Waleed Aly&#039;s OpEd says all that needs to be said about the insult-to-Islam issue.

What is more interesting then, is why wise words from a 30-something man seem to count for so little, judging from commenters&#039; (here and elsewhere) lack of interest in them.  Now *that&#039;s* an insult.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Waleed Aly&#8217;s OpEd says all that needs to be said about the insult-to-Islam issue.</p>
<p>What is more interesting then, is why wise words from a 30-something man seem to count for so little, judging from commenters&#8217; (here and elsewhere) lack of interest in them.  Now *that&#8217;s* an insult.</p>
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		<title>By: C.L.</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/09/18/what-then-does-pope-benedict-mean/#comment-300330</link>
		<dc:creator>C.L.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Sep 2006 01:35:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/09/18/what-then-does-pope-benedict-mean/#comment-300330</guid>
		<description>Aye Andrew, and keep an eye peeled for the stampede as the Muslim world&#039;s &quot;moderate majority&quot; trip over themselves to condemn Iran&#039;s repeatedly stated intention to exterminate the Jews. No risk of it happening any time soon, though. They didn&#039;t say anything about the UN&#039;s conclusion earlier this year that Jakarta&#039;s jihad in East Timor cost 150,000 lives. Draw a cartoon of the &quot;prophet&quot;, however, and look out!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aye Andrew, and keep an eye peeled for the stampede as the Muslim world&#8217;s &#8220;moderate majority&#8221; trip over themselves to condemn Iran&#8217;s repeatedly stated intention to exterminate the Jews. No risk of it happening any time soon, though. They didn&#8217;t say anything about the UN&#8217;s conclusion earlier this year that Jakarta&#8217;s jihad in East Timor cost 150,000 lives. Draw a cartoon of the &#8220;prophet&#8221;, however, and look out!</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew E</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/09/18/what-then-does-pope-benedict-mean/#comment-300329</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew E</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Sep 2006 01:29:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/09/18/what-then-does-pope-benedict-mean/#comment-300329</guid>
		<description>So, Muslims using sword and fire to compel converts, eh? Clear case of the pot calling the kettle black. If we can get Benny boy to read some history of the institution of which he is head, that should stop him coming out with stuff like this. If we can get a Muslim leader who would defuse the situation by pointing this out, we may quell a few of these riots. This would be a clear case of moral equivalence not hurting anyone.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, Muslims using sword and fire to compel converts, eh? Clear case of the pot calling the kettle black. If we can get Benny boy to read some history of the institution of which he is head, that should stop him coming out with stuff like this. If we can get a Muslim leader who would defuse the situation by pointing this out, we may quell a few of these riots. This would be a clear case of moral equivalence not hurting anyone.</p>
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		<title>By: Katz</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/09/18/what-then-does-pope-benedict-mean/#comment-300328</link>
		<dc:creator>Katz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Sep 2006 01:17:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/09/18/what-then-does-pope-benedict-mean/#comment-300328</guid>
		<description>Much hand-waving here Mark!

All the extant Greek texts are catalogued and concordanced. There is no evidence of leading Hebrew ideas getting any currency in Greek texts.

Certainly, as a maritime, and occasionally expansionary culture, the Greeks came into contact with neighbouring cultures.

Fighting with neighbours, living with neighbours, even reading their books is one thing. Incorporating and adapting their beliefs and ideas is quite different.

Not even in Greek popular culture is there much of an imprint of Hebrew culture. Much less is there any evidence of it in &quot;high&quot; Greek culture which embodied the quest for hellenic &quot;reason&quot;.

Take a current example: Even Cardinal Pell, it seems, reads the Koran, with the intention of rejecting it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Much hand-waving here Mark!</p>
<p>All the extant Greek texts are catalogued and concordanced. There is no evidence of leading Hebrew ideas getting any currency in Greek texts.</p>
<p>Certainly, as a maritime, and occasionally expansionary culture, the Greeks came into contact with neighbouring cultures.</p>
<p>Fighting with neighbours, living with neighbours, even reading their books is one thing. Incorporating and adapting their beliefs and ideas is quite different.</p>
<p>Not even in Greek popular culture is there much of an imprint of Hebrew culture. Much less is there any evidence of it in &#8220;high&#8221; Greek culture which embodied the quest for hellenic &#8220;reason&#8221;.</p>
<p>Take a current example: Even Cardinal Pell, it seems, reads the Koran, with the intention of rejecting it.</p>
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		<title>By: C.L.</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/09/18/what-then-does-pope-benedict-mean/#comment-300327</link>
		<dc:creator>C.L.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Sep 2006 01:08:52 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Steve, you really are terribly ignorant on these matters. I said I was a non-practising Catholic, not that I had ceased being a Catholic. As for the rest of your leftie equivalence theory rant, it has nothing to do with the Pope&#039;s address or the biggest force in terrorism today: Islam. Anyone who denies this is more or less deranged. 

I know all about Rwanda, by the way, as I had family helping to pick up the pieces in situ. You don&#039;t know what you&#039;re talking about.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve, you really are terribly ignorant on these matters. I said I was a non-practising Catholic, not that I had ceased being a Catholic. As for the rest of your leftie equivalence theory rant, it has nothing to do with the Pope&#8217;s address or the biggest force in terrorism today: Islam. Anyone who denies this is more or less deranged. </p>
<p>I know all about Rwanda, by the way, as I had family helping to pick up the pieces in situ. You don&#8217;t know what you&#8217;re talking about.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/09/18/what-then-does-pope-benedict-mean/#comment-300326</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Sep 2006 00:57:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/09/18/what-then-does-pope-benedict-mean/#comment-300326</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t have time to elaborate much, as I have to be in town at a meeting soon - but let me just observe that it&#039;s wrong to assume that &quot;Greek&quot; culture and &quot;Semitic&quot; or &quot;Eastern&quot; culture were entities that had hard boundaries - though that particular myth was propagated by the Greeks themselves. In fact, if you look at the various Middle Eastern civilisations, there was a lot of productive interchange. As to Hebrew culture, I refer you to the synthesis developed in places like Alexandria by Greek speaking Jews. This is one of the points that Benedict is making - I look forward to the promised footnoted version of the address which he is working on, which will no doubt clarify the sources for his argument.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t have time to elaborate much, as I have to be in town at a meeting soon &#8211; but let me just observe that it&#8217;s wrong to assume that &#8220;Greek&#8221; culture and &#8220;Semitic&#8221; or &#8220;Eastern&#8221; culture were entities that had hard boundaries &#8211; though that particular myth was propagated by the Greeks themselves. In fact, if you look at the various Middle Eastern civilisations, there was a lot of productive interchange. As to Hebrew culture, I refer you to the synthesis developed in places like Alexandria by Greek speaking Jews. This is one of the points that Benedict is making &#8211; I look forward to the promised footnoted version of the address which he is working on, which will no doubt clarify the sources for his argument.</p>
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		<title>By: Katz</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/09/18/what-then-does-pope-benedict-mean/#comment-300325</link>
		<dc:creator>Katz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Sep 2006 00:54:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/09/18/what-then-does-pope-benedict-mean/#comment-300325</guid>
		<description>Instances BC?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Instances BC?</p>
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