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	<title>Comments on: Time to shoot down the bomber</title>
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	<description>Blogging politics, culture, sociology and life from Brisvegas</description>
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		<title>By: Gummo Trotsky</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/03/time-to-shoot-down-the-bomber/comment-page-1/#comment-219575</link>
		<dc:creator>Gummo Trotsky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Dec 2006 00:17:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/03/time-to-shoot-down-the-bomber/#comment-219575</guid>
		<description>Time to close this thread.

I suggest any further comments on the byzantine workings of ALP internal politics be posted &lt;a href=&quot;http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/04/its-rudd-gillard/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Time to close this thread.</p>
<p>I suggest any further comments on the byzantine workings of ALP internal politics be posted <a href="http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/04/its-rudd-gillard/" rel="nofollow">here</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: David Jackmanson</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/03/time-to-shoot-down-the-bomber/comment-page-1/#comment-219569</link>
		<dc:creator>David Jackmanson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Dec 2006 00:11:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/03/time-to-shoot-down-the-bomber/#comment-219569</guid>
		<description>Zoe, I heard Byrne say Thursday live on NewsRadio...the media &lt;i&gt;did&lt;/i&gt; report over the weekend that postponing the spill till tomorrow was the original plan.

I guess the Australian assumed that if Rudd won, the Tues option would be followed, and did not wait to hear what Byrne said. Presumably most of the article you linked to was pre-written.

I have saved a screenhot of the article in case they change it later without admitting it :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Zoe, I heard Byrne say Thursday live on NewsRadio&#8230;the media <i>did</i> report over the weekend that postponing the spill till tomorrow was the original plan.</p>
<p>I guess the Australian assumed that if Rudd won, the Tues option would be followed, and did not wait to hear what Byrne said. Presumably most of the article you linked to was pre-written.</p>
<p>I have saved a screenhot of the article in case they change it later without admitting it <img src='http://larvatusprodeo.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Theodric</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/03/time-to-shoot-down-the-bomber/comment-page-1/#comment-219564</link>
		<dc:creator>Theodric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Dec 2006 00:03:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/03/time-to-shoot-down-the-bomber/#comment-219564</guid>
		<description>KEVIN Rudd is Labor&#039;s new leader, after winning a caucus vote by 10 votes. He beat Kim Beazley by 49 votes to 39. The result was confirmed after a party room meeting this morning.

Julia Gillard has been elected deputy unopposed.

Hours before the ballot, Mr Rudd declared he was happy to leave his future in his colleagues&#039; hands as he strode into Parliament.

Mr Rudd and running mate Julia Gillard spent the weekend working the phones to secure the crucial 45 caucus votes needed to snatch victory from incumbent leader Kim Beazley and his deputy Jenny Macklin.

&quot;Today is called a reality check and we are more than happy to put our future in our colleagues&#039; hands,&quot; a croaky voiced Mr Rudd told reporters this morning, before the vote

Asked about his voice, Mr Rudd said: &quot;If you spend the last three days on the telephone non-stop, that&#039;s what happens to your voice.&quot;

The ambitious Ms Gillard, who has taken a very determined back seat to Mr Rudd this weekend, only said: &quot;I&#039;m feeling good thank you&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>KEVIN Rudd is Labor&#8217;s new leader, after winning a caucus vote by 10 votes. He beat Kim Beazley by 49 votes to 39. The result was confirmed after a party room meeting this morning.</p>
<p>Julia Gillard has been elected deputy unopposed.</p>
<p>Hours before the ballot, Mr Rudd declared he was happy to leave his future in his colleagues&#8217; hands as he strode into Parliament.</p>
<p>Mr Rudd and running mate Julia Gillard spent the weekend working the phones to secure the crucial 45 caucus votes needed to snatch victory from incumbent leader Kim Beazley and his deputy Jenny Macklin.</p>
<p>&#8220;Today is called a reality check and we are more than happy to put our future in our colleagues&#8217; hands,&#8221; a croaky voiced Mr Rudd told reporters this morning, before the vote</p>
<p>Asked about his voice, Mr Rudd said: &#8220;If you spend the last three days on the telephone non-stop, that&#8217;s what happens to your voice.&#8221;</p>
<p>The ambitious Ms Gillard, who has taken a very determined back seat to Mr Rudd this weekend, only said: &#8220;I&#8217;m feeling good thank you&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Zoe</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/03/time-to-shoot-down-the-bomber/comment-page-1/#comment-219560</link>
		<dc:creator>Zoe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Dec 2006 23:59:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/03/time-to-shoot-down-the-bomber/#comment-219560</guid>
		<description>Or perhaps not - &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,20867185-601,00.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Australian&lt;/a&gt; now saying front bench will be decided at tomorrow&#039;s (ordinary) caucus meeting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Or perhaps not &#8211; <a href="http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,20867185-601,00.html" rel="nofollow">Australian</a> now saying front bench will be decided at tomorrow&#8217;s (ordinary) caucus meeting.</p>
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		<title>By: Zoe</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/03/time-to-shoot-down-the-bomber/comment-page-1/#comment-219559</link>
		<dc:creator>Zoe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Dec 2006 23:57:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/03/time-to-shoot-down-the-bomber/#comment-219559</guid>
		<description>David, perhaps some explanation in &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,20864881-601,00.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Milne&#039;s column&lt;/a&gt; this morning.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David, perhaps some explanation in <a href="http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,20864881-601,00.html" rel="nofollow">Milne&#8217;s column</a> this morning.</p>
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		<title>By: David Jackmanson</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/03/time-to-shoot-down-the-bomber/comment-page-1/#comment-219558</link>
		<dc:creator>David Jackmanson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Dec 2006 23:57:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/03/time-to-shoot-down-the-bomber/#comment-219558</guid>
		<description>Anthony Byrne, Caucus returning officer, via News Radio:

Rudd 49 d Beazley 39 

Gillard only nomination for Deputy.

Frontbench spill on Thursday, current frontbench to remain till then. Unsure what happens to Beazley between now and then - does he get to keep frontbench status? We&#039;ll know by Question Time at the latest.

Senate: 

Evans unopposed for leader
Conroy unopposed for deputy leader</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anthony Byrne, Caucus returning officer, via News Radio:</p>
<p>Rudd 49 d Beazley 39 </p>
<p>Gillard only nomination for Deputy.</p>
<p>Frontbench spill on Thursday, current frontbench to remain till then. Unsure what happens to Beazley between now and then &#8211; does he get to keep frontbench status? We&#8217;ll know by Question Time at the latest.</p>
<p>Senate: </p>
<p>Evans unopposed for leader<br />
Conroy unopposed for deputy leader</p>
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		<title>By: David Jackmanson</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/03/time-to-shoot-down-the-bomber/comment-page-1/#comment-219555</link>
		<dc:creator>David Jackmanson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Dec 2006 23:52:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/03/time-to-shoot-down-the-bomber/#comment-219555</guid>
		<description>ABC reporter Brissenden pointing out that 50 minutes is a long time, especially if the vote is indeed 49-39. Perhaps a lot of procedural manouevering in the first 20-25 minutes?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ABC reporter Brissenden pointing out that 50 minutes is a long time, especially if the vote is indeed 49-39. Perhaps a lot of procedural manouevering in the first 20-25 minutes?</p>
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		<title>By: David Jackmanson</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/03/time-to-shoot-down-the-bomber/comment-page-1/#comment-219553</link>
		<dc:creator>David Jackmanson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Dec 2006 23:49:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/03/time-to-shoot-down-the-bomber/#comment-219553</guid>
		<description>NewsRadio is also reporting an &#039;unofficial&#039; result: a Rudd victory without numbers

Hang on, someone just cut in with the 49-39 figure.

Of interest:

result for Deputy? Same margin or different? What about Senate leader and deputy?

Will Rudd&#039;s forces unite to postpone the frontbench ballot till tomorrow?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>NewsRadio is also reporting an &#8216;unofficial&#8217; result: a Rudd victory without numbers</p>
<p>Hang on, someone just cut in with the 49-39 figure.</p>
<p>Of interest:</p>
<p>result for Deputy? Same margin or different? What about Senate leader and deputy?</p>
<p>Will Rudd&#8217;s forces unite to postpone the frontbench ballot till tomorrow?</p>
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		<title>By: Mungo Amanda</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/03/time-to-shoot-down-the-bomber/comment-page-1/#comment-219546</link>
		<dc:creator>Mungo Amanda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Dec 2006 23:42:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/03/time-to-shoot-down-the-bomber/#comment-219546</guid>
		<description>Sky says its Rudd 49-39</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sky says its Rudd 49-39</p>
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		<title>By: Gummo Trotsky</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/03/time-to-shoot-down-the-bomber/comment-page-1/#comment-219504</link>
		<dc:creator>Gummo Trotsky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Dec 2006 22:41:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/03/time-to-shoot-down-the-bomber/#comment-219504</guid>
		<description>Trenton,

Why assume that Rudd/Gillard is taking primary votes only from the Greens? That&#039;s a silly assumption, based on a set of equally silly assumptions (and maybe attitudes) - like that the left of the ALP is going Green and good riddance to them.

One place where first preferences are going to count a lot, in the next election, is the Senate. A higher primary vote for Labor there translates into more quotas filled on first preferences, hence more seats. And maybe next time round, the twonks who put Steve Fielding into the Senate on Labor preferences they couldn&#039;t bear to see go to the Greens will get it right, so the Senate actually functions as a House of Review again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Trenton,</p>
<p>Why assume that Rudd/Gillard is taking primary votes only from the Greens? That&#8217;s a silly assumption, based on a set of equally silly assumptions (and maybe attitudes) &#8211; like that the left of the ALP is going Green and good riddance to them.</p>
<p>One place where first preferences are going to count a lot, in the next election, is the Senate. A higher primary vote for Labor there translates into more quotas filled on first preferences, hence more seats. And maybe next time round, the twonks who put Steve Fielding into the Senate on Labor preferences they couldn&#8217;t bear to see go to the Greens will get it right, so the Senate actually functions as a House of Review again.</p>
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		<title>By: Frank Calabrese</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/03/time-to-shoot-down-the-bomber/comment-page-1/#comment-219216</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank Calabrese</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Dec 2006 14:42:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/03/time-to-shoot-down-the-bomber/#comment-219216</guid>
		<description>Speaking of Polls : http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,20866098-601,00.html

Rudd team leads by 21pc: Newspoll
Steve Lewis, Chief political correspondent 
December 04, 2006
LABOR is preparing to take a big gamble today by electing Kevin Rudd to challenge John Howard at the federal election next year, as voters call on a divided ALP to dump Kim Beazley as leader.
As Labor MPs arrive in Canberra for this morning&#039;s leadership showdown, a special Newspoll reveals the &quot;dream team&quot; of Mr Rudd and Julia Gillard holds a commanding lead of almost two to one over the incumbents Mr Beazley and Jenny Macklin. 

The Newspoll, conducted exclusively for The Australian, reveals support among voters for the Rudd-Gillard combination at 48 per cent, 21 percentage points higher than their rivals. 

Mr Rudd also holds a decisive lead over Mr Beazley as preferred Opposition leader. 

Support for the Queensland MP, who is untested in a leadership role, has jumped to 43 per cent. This easily outstrips Mr Beazley, who can muster only 27 per cent backing to continue as Opposition Leader. 

Who the hell did they survey, the personal address books of the entire News Ltd Staff list ??

And of course we all know what the editorial will say :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Speaking of Polls : <a href="http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,20866098-601,00.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,20866098-601,00.html</a></p>
<p>Rudd team leads by 21pc: Newspoll<br />
Steve Lewis, Chief political correspondent<br />
December 04, 2006<br />
LABOR is preparing to take a big gamble today by electing Kevin Rudd to challenge John Howard at the federal election next year, as voters call on a divided ALP to dump Kim Beazley as leader.<br />
As Labor MPs arrive in Canberra for this morning&#8217;s leadership showdown, a special Newspoll reveals the &#8220;dream team&#8221; of Mr Rudd and Julia Gillard holds a commanding lead of almost two to one over the incumbents Mr Beazley and Jenny Macklin. </p>
<p>The Newspoll, conducted exclusively for The Australian, reveals support among voters for the Rudd-Gillard combination at 48 per cent, 21 percentage points higher than their rivals. </p>
<p>Mr Rudd also holds a decisive lead over Mr Beazley as preferred Opposition leader. </p>
<p>Support for the Queensland MP, who is untested in a leadership role, has jumped to 43 per cent. This easily outstrips Mr Beazley, who can muster only 27 per cent backing to continue as Opposition Leader. </p>
<p>Who the hell did they survey, the personal address books of the entire News Ltd Staff list ??</p>
<p>And of course we all know what the editorial will say <img src='http://larvatusprodeo.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: cs</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/03/time-to-shoot-down-the-bomber/comment-page-1/#comment-219172</link>
		<dc:creator>cs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Dec 2006 13:40:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/03/time-to-shoot-down-the-bomber/#comment-219172</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/rudd-for-pm-say-voters/2006/12/03/1165080815758.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Here&#039;s&lt;/a&gt; the rest of the Neilson poll:

&lt;i&gt;The poll shows 36 per cent of voters think Mr Rudd would be Labor&#039;s best leader, an increase of nine points since the question was last posed in May. Ms Gillard is the next preferred leader on 29 per cent, while Mr Beazley is lagging at 24 per cent.&lt;/i&gt;

This is a blessed story to appear for Rudd in this morning&#039;s press, if the numbers are presently giving him a slight majority or the result is to depend on only a few undecideds, as is generally being reported.

Re Latham, it&#039;s true that he had high personal approval ratings at various times, but his preferred PM ratings were always significantly less. The last I can easily find was 45/32 in Howard&#039;s favour about 2 weeks from the election. There doesn&#039;t appear to be a preferred PM poll reported in this latest Nielson. 

While I&#039;m here, the ALP&#039;s primary at the last election was 37.64, its lowest since 1934. Many pundits have concluded that the ALP must raise its primary to win, or perhaps even to avoid oblivion. Given that the ALP&#039;s 2004 2pp was 47.26, a 48 point ALP primary, if it was to be true, would be gorgeous.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/rudd-for-pm-say-voters/2006/12/03/1165080815758.html" rel="nofollow">Here&#8217;s</a> the rest of the Neilson poll:</p>
<p><i>The poll shows 36 per cent of voters think Mr Rudd would be Labor&#8217;s best leader, an increase of nine points since the question was last posed in May. Ms Gillard is the next preferred leader on 29 per cent, while Mr Beazley is lagging at 24 per cent.</i></p>
<p>This is a blessed story to appear for Rudd in this morning&#8217;s press, if the numbers are presently giving him a slight majority or the result is to depend on only a few undecideds, as is generally being reported.</p>
<p>Re Latham, it&#8217;s true that he had high personal approval ratings at various times, but his preferred PM ratings were always significantly less. The last I can easily find was 45/32 in Howard&#8217;s favour about 2 weeks from the election. There doesn&#8217;t appear to be a preferred PM poll reported in this latest Nielson. </p>
<p>While I&#8217;m here, the ALP&#8217;s primary at the last election was 37.64, its lowest since 1934. Many pundits have concluded that the ALP must raise its primary to win, or perhaps even to avoid oblivion. Given that the ALP&#8217;s 2004 2pp was 47.26, a 48 point ALP primary, if it was to be true, would be gorgeous.</p>
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		<title>By: Trenton</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/03/time-to-shoot-down-the-bomber/comment-page-1/#comment-219141</link>
		<dc:creator>Trenton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Dec 2006 12:51:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/03/time-to-shoot-down-the-bomber/#comment-219141</guid>
		<description>Martin, so that makes Howard the Merle Haggard of Australian politics. Maybe Rudd would then be the Mark Holden of Australian politics as opposed to Latham who would be considered more in the Bon Scot &quot;crash and burn&quot; mould.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Martin, so that makes Howard the Merle Haggard of Australian politics. Maybe Rudd would then be the Mark Holden of Australian politics as opposed to Latham who would be considered more in the Bon Scot &#8220;crash and burn&#8221; mould.</p>
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		<title>By: PeterTB</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/03/time-to-shoot-down-the-bomber/comment-page-1/#comment-219138</link>
		<dc:creator>PeterTB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Dec 2006 12:46:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/03/time-to-shoot-down-the-bomber/#comment-219138</guid>
		<description>Fair comment Trenton.  All Labor has to do to win is to put the country before tribalism.  The country before the need to be just different from the Coalition.  The country before the need not to alienate the loopy left.

Who leads is secondary</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fair comment Trenton.  All Labor has to do to win is to put the country before tribalism.  The country before the need to be just different from the Coalition.  The country before the need not to alienate the loopy left.</p>
<p>Who leads is secondary</p>
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		<title>By: Martin Spalding</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/03/time-to-shoot-down-the-bomber/comment-page-1/#comment-219130</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin Spalding</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Dec 2006 12:32:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/03/time-to-shoot-down-the-bomber/#comment-219130</guid>
		<description>This ballot has divided me, just as it seems to have done the Labor party.  I instinctively lean towards Rudd, but can&#039;t shake the feeling that Beazley is getting a harsh deal. If you read his speeches and listen to his Parliamentiary and media performances over the last 12 months (discounting the trivial gaffes like the Karl/Rove/McManus one), his messages have been clear, strong and consistent in the last 12 months.

But it&#039;s as if both the commentariat and the public have stopped listening to him and treat him as a joke, based on a narrative in part based on past failures, and in part driven by sections of the media, and nothing Beazer can do can shake that.

It&#039;s classic proof that politics these days is all theatre and image, like Australian Idol or Big Brother. And Beazer is like that long-time rock band that had its heyday, then a few flops in the early 80s, but still puts out reasonable albums after 30 years, only for critics turn their noses up every time they hit the stage or the record shops.

That being said, to further the rock analogy, the Beazer resembles one of those oldies 70s bands - probably Status Quo is the closest -  who, despite 30 years together and many hit albums, are just plain mediocre and never going to be up there with the greats.

And just as some of those stodgy 70s dinosaur bands confect more and more three-chord front-bar boogie, Beazley keeps on putting together the template outrage responses and the familiar windy rhetoric that people have heard before. That is what I think his problem is - the woman from this morning&#039;s Insiders summed it up best - people just don&#039;t believe what he says.

And this is why the gaffes were so disastrous: it wasn&#039;t the gaffes themselves, but that they confirmed in people&#039;s minds a person who - if there are no health issues - just isn&#039;t hungry and switched on enough to the issues of the moment.

For all Rudd&#039;s faults, he is hungry and switched on. He has many of Latham&#039;s qualities but without the instability. And that is why I reckon he will win tomorrow.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This ballot has divided me, just as it seems to have done the Labor party.  I instinctively lean towards Rudd, but can&#8217;t shake the feeling that Beazley is getting a harsh deal. If you read his speeches and listen to his Parliamentiary and media performances over the last 12 months (discounting the trivial gaffes like the Karl/Rove/McManus one), his messages have been clear, strong and consistent in the last 12 months.</p>
<p>But it&#8217;s as if both the commentariat and the public have stopped listening to him and treat him as a joke, based on a narrative in part based on past failures, and in part driven by sections of the media, and nothing Beazer can do can shake that.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s classic proof that politics these days is all theatre and image, like Australian Idol or Big Brother. And Beazer is like that long-time rock band that had its heyday, then a few flops in the early 80s, but still puts out reasonable albums after 30 years, only for critics turn their noses up every time they hit the stage or the record shops.</p>
<p>That being said, to further the rock analogy, the Beazer resembles one of those oldies 70s bands &#8211; probably Status Quo is the closest &#8211;  who, despite 30 years together and many hit albums, are just plain mediocre and never going to be up there with the greats.</p>
<p>And just as some of those stodgy 70s dinosaur bands confect more and more three-chord front-bar boogie, Beazley keeps on putting together the template outrage responses and the familiar windy rhetoric that people have heard before. That is what I think his problem is &#8211; the woman from this morning&#8217;s Insiders summed it up best &#8211; people just don&#8217;t believe what he says.</p>
<p>And this is why the gaffes were so disastrous: it wasn&#8217;t the gaffes themselves, but that they confirmed in people&#8217;s minds a person who &#8211; if there are no health issues &#8211; just isn&#8217;t hungry and switched on enough to the issues of the moment.</p>
<p>For all Rudd&#8217;s faults, he is hungry and switched on. He has many of Latham&#8217;s qualities but without the instability. And that is why I reckon he will win tomorrow.</p>
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		<title>By: Trenton</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/03/time-to-shoot-down-the-bomber/comment-page-1/#comment-219122</link>
		<dc:creator>Trenton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Dec 2006 12:19:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/03/time-to-shoot-down-the-bomber/#comment-219122</guid>
		<description>Latham from memory had the highest approval rating of any opposition leader and his preferred PM figures were much superior to Creans. The Coalition Primary vote doesn&#039;t change regardless of who leads Labor on the AC Nielsen poll so I am just trying to work out how taking Primary vote from the Greens makes a whole lot of difference to Labor. Rudd will win tommorow but this whole thing has a smell of self dellusion about it that underlined the Latham run in 2004.

Just as a sidenote I wouldn&#039;t give Newspoll the time of day as a serious Poll anymore, unless you are lucky enough to be the journalist that submits the poll questions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Latham from memory had the highest approval rating of any opposition leader and his preferred PM figures were much superior to Creans. The Coalition Primary vote doesn&#8217;t change regardless of who leads Labor on the AC Nielsen poll so I am just trying to work out how taking Primary vote from the Greens makes a whole lot of difference to Labor. Rudd will win tommorow but this whole thing has a smell of self dellusion about it that underlined the Latham run in 2004.</p>
<p>Just as a sidenote I wouldn&#8217;t give Newspoll the time of day as a serious Poll anymore, unless you are lucky enough to be the journalist that submits the poll questions.</p>
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		<title>By: PeterTB</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/03/time-to-shoot-down-the-bomber/comment-page-1/#comment-219111</link>
		<dc:creator>PeterTB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Dec 2006 12:10:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/03/time-to-shoot-down-the-bomber/#comment-219111</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Coaltition,Labor or Greens is a seriously swinging voter. &lt;/i&gt;

Or deranged.  Quite sensible to swing between Coalition and Labor though, shows a maturiity beyond tribalism, and keeps the bastards honest.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Coaltition,Labor or Greens is a seriously swinging voter. </i></p>
<p>Or deranged.  Quite sensible to swing between Coalition and Labor though, shows a maturiity beyond tribalism, and keeps the bastards honest.</p>
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		<title>By: The ghost of cs</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/03/time-to-shoot-down-the-bomber/comment-page-1/#comment-219102</link>
		<dc:creator>The ghost of cs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Dec 2006 11:57:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/03/time-to-shoot-down-the-bomber/#comment-219102</guid>
		<description>I am dead Zoe. Nice to hear from you too.

Very funny Trenton. Latham never bested Howard on either approval or preferred PM basis, and had a (too) low primary vote. The 2pp is well and good but, on the record, is insufficient to be taken as a guide in isolation, especially between elections, and especially if it&#039;s Newspoll (on the last election, Nielsen has the best record on the 2pp, Morgan the best on the primary, and Newspoll was between the two, coming second on both counts).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am dead Zoe. Nice to hear from you too.</p>
<p>Very funny Trenton. Latham never bested Howard on either approval or preferred PM basis, and had a (too) low primary vote. The 2pp is well and good but, on the record, is insufficient to be taken as a guide in isolation, especially between elections, and especially if it&#8217;s Newspoll (on the last election, Nielsen has the best record on the 2pp, Morgan the best on the primary, and Newspoll was between the two, coming second on both counts).</p>
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		<title>By: Trenton</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/03/time-to-shoot-down-the-bomber/comment-page-1/#comment-219052</link>
		<dc:creator>Trenton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Dec 2006 11:00:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/03/time-to-shoot-down-the-bomber/#comment-219052</guid>
		<description>suzoz said :&quot;I’m a swinging left voter&quot;

Does that mean you have voted for Howard and Labor at various time or Howard and Greens at various times? Of coures your voting habits are personal but in this day and age a &quot;swingin left voter&quot; who votes for either Coaltition,Labor or Greens is a seriously swinging voter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>suzoz said :&#8221;I’m a swinging left voter&#8221;</p>
<p>Does that mean you have voted for Howard and Labor at various time or Howard and Greens at various times? Of coures your voting habits are personal but in this day and age a &#8220;swingin left voter&#8221; who votes for either Coaltition,Labor or Greens is a seriously swinging voter.</p>
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		<title>By: suzoz</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/03/time-to-shoot-down-the-bomber/comment-page-1/#comment-219024</link>
		<dc:creator>suzoz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Dec 2006 10:49:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/03/time-to-shoot-down-the-bomber/#comment-219024</guid>
		<description>Trenton wrote: As I see has been pointed out somewhere else the support for Rudd from those on the left will most probably dry up after some of them get a bit more aquainted with his attitude on some of their pet issues.

I&#039;m a swinging left voter who is not thrilled with Rudd as a choice - to some extent I see it as a &#039;damned if you do and damned if you don&#039;t&#039; situation. I&#039;m not automatically thrilled with Gillard either. However, the prospect of Beazley winning the vote tomorrow engenders a strong sense of despair, whereas the prospect of R/G winning at least opens up a bit of hope. I think Howard has been weakened recently and I suspect his invincibility shield suffered some serious dents with the  recent climate change debate and Bush&#039;s loss in the US (and the ongoing Iraq disaster). I realise that the ALP will not run an election campaign on those two issues (though I wish they would). Still, I think Rudd is capable of taking on Howard in a way that Beazley has shown he is not.

And a lot of people I know have never forgiven Beazley for the Tampa sellout in 2001. I think if Beazley wins the ALP can kiss the next election goodbye.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Trenton wrote: As I see has been pointed out somewhere else the support for Rudd from those on the left will most probably dry up after some of them get a bit more aquainted with his attitude on some of their pet issues.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m a swinging left voter who is not thrilled with Rudd as a choice &#8211; to some extent I see it as a &#8216;damned if you do and damned if you don&#8217;t&#8217; situation. I&#8217;m not automatically thrilled with Gillard either. However, the prospect of Beazley winning the vote tomorrow engenders a strong sense of despair, whereas the prospect of R/G winning at least opens up a bit of hope. I think Howard has been weakened recently and I suspect his invincibility shield suffered some serious dents with the  recent climate change debate and Bush&#8217;s loss in the US (and the ongoing Iraq disaster). I realise that the ALP will not run an election campaign on those two issues (though I wish they would). Still, I think Rudd is capable of taking on Howard in a way that Beazley has shown he is not.</p>
<p>And a lot of people I know have never forgiven Beazley for the Tampa sellout in 2001. I think if Beazley wins the ALP can kiss the next election goodbye.</p>
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