Comments on: Rudd's chances in Queensland http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/05/rudds-chances-in-queensland/ Life, Culture and Politics from BrisVegas Tue, 14 Feb 2012 08:56:52 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3 By: Paul Norton http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/05/rudds-chances-in-queensland/#comment-288018 Paul Norton Thu, 07 Dec 2006 02:16:09 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/05/rudds-chances-in-queensland/#comment-288018 The Murdoch press has been trying to talk up the prospect of such a wedge being driven between Labor and coal industry workers over climate change policy. This overlooks the massive political and cultural differences between the coal industry union, coal workers and coal communities on one hand, and their counterparts in the forestry sector. These differences are obscured by the fact that both the coal union and the forestry union are divisions of the CFMEU, and therefore nominally part of the same union. To cut a long story short, the Mining & Energy Division of the CFMEU is as left-wing as any union in the country, has an antagonistic relationship with the coal employers and the Federal government, shares an office and a political orientation with the MUA, and (<a href="http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/11/17/coal-union-intervenes-constructively-on-climate-change/" rel="nofollow">as I have posted previously</a>) has adopted a more proactive, strategic and independent approach to environmental issues than has the Forestry Division of the CFMEU. The Mining & Energy Division has also <a href="http://www.cfmeu.com.au/storage//documents/Apr06CC.pdf" rel="nofollow">warmed to Labor's current climate change policy</a> (see page 15 at link). In any case, even if differences arise between the union and either Labor or environmental organisations between now and the Federal election, it is unthinkable that the Mining & Energy Division would mobilise its members for Howard (as the Forestry Division did in Tasmania in 2004), or that its officials would deal under the table with Howard government ministers to undermine Labor (as Michael O'Connor and Scott McLean did in 2004). The Murdoch press has been trying to talk up the prospect of such a wedge being driven between Labor and coal industry workers over climate change policy. This overlooks the massive political and cultural differences between the coal industry union, coal workers and coal communities on one hand, and their counterparts in the forestry sector. These differences are obscured by the fact that both the coal union and the forestry union are divisions of the CFMEU, and therefore nominally part of the same union.

To cut a long story short, the Mining & Energy Division of the CFMEU is as left-wing as any union in the country, has an antagonistic relationship with the coal employers and the Federal government, shares an office and a political orientation with the MUA, and (as I have posted previously) has adopted a more proactive, strategic and independent approach to environmental issues than has the Forestry Division of the CFMEU. The Mining & Energy Division has also warmed to Labor’s current climate change policy (see page 15 at link). In any case, even if differences arise between the union and either Labor or environmental organisations between now and the Federal election, it is unthinkable that the Mining & Energy Division would mobilise its members for Howard (as the Forestry Division did in Tasmania in 2004), or that its officials would deal under the table with Howard government ministers to undermine Labor (as Michael O’Connor and Scott McLean did in 2004).

]]> By: Sacha Blumen http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/05/rudds-chances-in-queensland/#comment-288017 Sacha Blumen Thu, 07 Dec 2006 02:15:35 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/05/rudds-chances-in-queensland/#comment-288017 Just a thought: given his background, Rudd's approach to politics, leadership and government may be more influenced by "overview management" than by advocacy - the structural role in society of a union leader is quite different to the role of the head of a dept of premier and cabinet. I don't know if Rudd is seen to be trustworthy by different union leaders as he didn't make his mark from within that sector. I've read that he has done quite a bit of advocacy as a local member and so isn't unaware of that part of politics. It was a shame to read Jennie George decrying the demotion of a woman in shadow cabinet in favour of a man. Is she interested in pulling together and winning the big game ie winning the election, or in moaning? It was a shame to also read Big Bill's swipe at Craig Emerson. Obviously Bill thinks this kind of bickering is helpful for Labor's election chances or maybe he just doesn't care or think. Just a thought: given his background, Rudd’s approach to politics, leadership and government may be more influenced by “overview management” than by advocacy – the structural role in society of a union leader is quite different to the role of the head of a dept of premier and cabinet. I don’t know if Rudd is seen to be trustworthy by different union leaders as he didn’t make his mark from within that sector. I’ve read that he has done quite a bit of advocacy as a local member and so isn’t unaware of that part of politics.

It was a shame to read Jennie George decrying the demotion of a woman in shadow cabinet in favour of a man. Is she interested in pulling together and winning the big game ie winning the election, or in moaning?

It was a shame to also read Big Bill’s swipe at Craig Emerson. Obviously Bill thinks this kind of bickering is helpful for Labor’s election chances or maybe he just doesn’t care or think.

]]> By: Mark http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/05/rudds-chances-in-queensland/#comment-288016 Mark Thu, 07 Dec 2006 02:02:16 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/05/rudds-chances-in-queensland/#comment-288016 Megan, your comments were caught up in our spam filter. Please see this post for what to do in future if they don't appear: http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/06/dont-fill-our-purple-blog-with-spam/ Megan, your comments were caught up in our spam filter. Please see this post for what to do in future if they don’t appear:

http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/06/dont-fill-our-purple-blog-with-spam/

]]> By: Megan http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/05/rudds-chances-in-queensland/#comment-288015 Megan Thu, 07 Dec 2006 01:30:34 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/05/rudds-chances-in-queensland/#comment-288015 Andrew E, I composed a painstaking reply, pressed Refresh and it promptly got lost in Cyberspace, or maybe the editors thought it was no good. My main point is, you're probably right, my imagination is running riot but we really don't know Kevin Rudd very well and he doesn't have a lot of history with unions has he? And although his parliamentary speech underlined the need for workers to secure certainty in employment, I thought the way he criticised the Work Choices legislation as against the spirit of Menzian Liberalism could be interpreted the wrong way. Why isn't he a small-L Liberal then?, people might ask. Maybe it's not such a bad thing that there appears to be a little distance between Kev and the unions because the Libs are always banging on about how Labor is a slave to the unions etc, but any discordance in the symphony and Howard will be onto it like Nosferatu onto the cut finger in the old film of that name...They'll all be yammering Kev can't control the faceless might of the evil unions, Kev doesn't know what he's up against, Kev should be one of us and start drawing blood.... Andrew E,

I composed a painstaking reply, pressed Refresh and it promptly got lost in Cyberspace, or maybe the editors thought it was no good. My main point is, you’re probably right, my imagination is running riot but we really don’t know Kevin Rudd very well and he doesn’t have a lot of history with unions has he?

And although his parliamentary speech underlined the need for workers to secure certainty in employment, I thought the way he criticised the Work Choices legislation as against the spirit of Menzian Liberalism could be interpreted the wrong way. Why isn’t he a small-L Liberal then?, people might ask.

Maybe it’s not such a bad thing that there appears to be a little distance between Kev and the unions because the Libs are always banging on about how Labor is a slave to the unions etc, but any discordance in the symphony and Howard will be onto it like Nosferatu onto the cut finger in the old film of that name…They’ll all be yammering Kev can’t control the faceless might of the evil unions, Kev doesn’t know what he’s up against, Kev should be one of us and start drawing blood….

]]> By: Megan http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/05/rudds-chances-in-queensland/#comment-288014 Megan Thu, 07 Dec 2006 01:05:25 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/05/rudds-chances-in-queensland/#comment-288014 Well who knows Andrew E. Given we have yet another Labor leader we know very little about and moreover one without any history in the union movement, anything could happen. But maybe my imagination is running riot. The point though, there's a rift and John Howard loves to exploit them. I mean Kev hasn't ever had a lot of beers with people in unions and they are suspicious of him. I thought the way Kevin Rudd lamented that Work Choices legislation was not in the spirit of Robert Menzies Liberalism was a bit rich, even if he was only taking it up to Howard. Well why isn't he a small-L Liberal then?, people might ask. Maybe what he should talk about is how unions protect people's rights for a fair days work for a fair days pay and how unions aren't a dirty word etc etc. However the Libs are always banging on about how Labor is a slave of love to the unions so maybe that's not such a bad thing to have a bit of distance...On the other hand any discordance in the symphony and the Libs will be onto it - Kev can't control the faceless might of the unions, doesn't know what he's up against, should be one of us blah blah... Well who knows Andrew E. Given we have yet another Labor leader we know very little about and moreover one without any history in the union movement, anything could happen. But maybe my imagination is running riot. The point though, there’s a rift and John Howard loves to exploit them. I mean Kev hasn’t ever had a lot of beers with people in unions and they are suspicious of him. I thought the way Kevin Rudd lamented that Work Choices legislation was not in the spirit of Robert Menzies Liberalism was a bit rich, even if he was only taking it up to Howard. Well why isn’t he a small-L Liberal then?, people might ask. Maybe what he should talk about is how unions protect people’s rights for a fair days work for a fair days pay and how unions aren’t a dirty word etc etc.

However the Libs are always banging on about how Labor is a slave of love to the unions so maybe that’s not such a bad thing to have a bit of distance…On the other hand any discordance in the symphony and the Libs will be onto it – Kev can’t control the faceless might of the unions, doesn’t know what he’s up against, should be one of us blah blah…

]]> By: Andrew E http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/05/rudds-chances-in-queensland/#comment-288013 Andrew E Wed, 06 Dec 2006 22:03:30 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/05/rudds-chances-in-queensland/#comment-288013 Megan, Could Ludwig command such a crowd? Given that the current Queensland governmernt are almost universally Ludwig people, and that government is past its best, has not Ludwig's power declined? Does Ludwig hate Rudd so much that he'd campaign with Howard? If the timberworkers' union could excuse their actions within the broader Labor movement on the basis that 1) it was protecting its members jobs, and 2) Latham was a nob anyway, does Ludwig have the same excuses open to him? Do you thing the broader l;abour movement would rather have a chance at winning federal government and knocking over WorkChoices, or rallying around good old Joe with all the benefits he brings? I'm sure he kicks butt within the Queensland ALP, but where are the old conservative lions who can point to their scars and say: "Joe Ludwig did this to me"? Is being no friend of Joe Ludwig really the same thing as being no friend of the workers? Is it possible to be one and not the other? Megan,
Could Ludwig command such a crowd?
Given that the current Queensland governmernt are almost universally Ludwig people, and that government is past its best, has not Ludwig’s power declined?
Does Ludwig hate Rudd so much that he’d campaign with Howard?
If the timberworkers’ union could excuse their actions within the broader Labor movement on the basis that 1) it was protecting its members jobs, and 2) Latham was a nob anyway, does Ludwig have the same excuses open to him?
Do you thing the broader l;abour movement would rather have a chance at winning federal government and knocking over WorkChoices, or rallying around good old Joe with all the benefits he brings?
I’m sure he kicks butt within the Queensland ALP, but where are the old conservative lions who can point to their scars and say: “Joe Ludwig did this to me”?
Is being no friend of Joe Ludwig really the same thing as being no friend of the workers? Is it possible to be one and not the other?

]]> By: Megan http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/05/rudds-chances-in-queensland/#comment-288012 Megan Wed, 06 Dec 2006 13:31:45 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/05/rudds-chances-in-queensland/#comment-288012 BlindFreddy, do you reckon Bill Ludwigs' antipathy to Kevin Rudd is electoral gold? I just think that Howard would love to slip into his little wedgie undies again and exploit the potential rift. The possibility of Howard cheering along with a crowd of admiring unionists again cannot be discounted, nor can the prospect of John Howard and Bill Ludwig canoodling together on some moonlit boardwalk by the sea. Remember Lathams' disastrous attempt to shore up the Green vote in Tasmania! BlindFreddy, do you reckon Bill Ludwigs’ antipathy to Kevin Rudd is electoral gold? I just think that Howard would love to slip into his little wedgie undies again and exploit the potential rift. The possibility of Howard cheering along with a crowd of admiring unionists again cannot be discounted, nor can the prospect of John Howard and Bill Ludwig canoodling together on some moonlit boardwalk by the sea. Remember Lathams’ disastrous attempt to shore up the Green vote in Tasmania!

]]> By: Paul Norton http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/05/rudds-chances-in-queensland/#comment-288011 Paul Norton Wed, 06 Dec 2006 00:18:14 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/05/rudds-chances-in-queensland/#comment-288011 Could people please stop defaming dinosaurs by comparing them with Bill Ludwig? Could people please stop defaming dinosaurs by comparing them with Bill Ludwig?

]]> By: Paul Norton http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/05/rudds-chances-in-queensland/#comment-288010 Paul Norton Wed, 06 Dec 2006 00:17:42 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/05/rudds-chances-in-queensland/#comment-288010 The Queensland state parochialism factor has been diminished by, amongst other things, a combination of increasing levels of education, information richness and interconnectedness with "the South" and overseas amongst the population and the growing proportion of interstate and overseas migrants who have never identified as "Queenslanders". When I moved to Queensland in 1988 I was struck by the emphasis on parochial sentiments in product advertising - e.g. Suncorp advertising itself, not on the basis of the quality of its banking and insurance, but its role in "building a stronger Queensland", Big Rooster being advertised as "our big chicken for our big state", etc. Such themes are seldom encountered today, which indicates that the marketing people have detected that Queensland state identity is no longer a potent selling point. The Queensland state parochialism factor has been diminished by, amongst other things, a combination of increasing levels of education, information richness and interconnectedness with “the South” and overseas amongst the population and the growing proportion of interstate and overseas migrants who have never identified as “Queenslanders”.

When I moved to Queensland in 1988 I was struck by the emphasis on parochial sentiments in product advertising – e.g. Suncorp advertising itself, not on the basis of the quality of its banking and insurance, but its role in “building a stronger Queensland”, Big Rooster being advertised as “our big chicken for our big state”, etc. Such themes are seldom encountered today, which indicates that the marketing people have detected that Queensland state identity is no longer a potent selling point.

]]> By: BlindFreddy http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/05/rudds-chances-in-queensland/#comment-288009 BlindFreddy Tue, 05 Dec 2006 23:05:15 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/05/rudds-chances-in-queensland/#comment-288009 Bill Ludwig's suggestion that Unions Don't Like Rudd, and the implied mutuality, is electoral gold. Onya B(i/u)lly Boy, there's a place being prepared for you in the dinosaurs graveyard. Bill Ludwig’s suggestion that Unions Don’t Like Rudd, and the implied mutuality, is electoral gold. Onya B(i/u)lly Boy, there’s a place being prepared for you in the dinosaurs graveyard.

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