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	<title>Comments on: Is the end of the world near? Ask President (Chelsea) Clinton</title>
	<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/21/is-the-end-of-the-world-near-ask-president-chelsea-clinton/</link>
	<description>Blogging politics, culture, sociology and life from Brisvegas</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2008 00:36:44 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.3</generator>
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		<title>By: Graham Bell</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/21/is-the-end-of-the-world-near-ask-president-chelsea-clinton/#comment-257917</link>
		<dc:creator>Graham Bell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Dec 2006 06:56:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/21/is-the-end-of-the-world-near-ask-president-chelsea-clinton/#comment-257917</guid>
		<description>Steve:
Thanks a lot for that terrific link to the film database - but that film doesn't sound familiar so shall keep looking. :-)

Brett:
There was, however, a lot of worry about Germany's commercial ambitions and about their Kaiser, who everyone in the British ruling class - and every Prussian peasant - knew was as mad as a meat-axe (though few would dare say so in public) .... so the paranoia about invasion by Germany was probably justified to a certain extent. 

There are some interesting parallels between Kaiser Bill and Mr G W Bush. Invasion anyone?  A nice quick little war?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve:<br />
Thanks a lot for that terrific link to the film database - but that film doesn&#8217;t sound familiar so shall keep looking. <img src='http://larvatusprodeo.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Brett:<br />
There was, however, a lot of worry about Germany&#8217;s commercial ambitions and about their Kaiser, who everyone in the British ruling class - and every Prussian peasant - knew was as mad as a meat-axe (though few would dare say so in public) &#8230;. so the paranoia about invasion by Germany was probably justified to a certain extent. </p>
<p>There are some interesting parallels between Kaiser Bill and Mr G W Bush. Invasion anyone?  A nice quick little war?</p>
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		<title>By: Brett</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/21/is-the-end-of-the-world-near-ask-president-chelsea-clinton/#comment-256356</link>
		<dc:creator>Brett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Dec 2006 10:38:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/21/is-the-end-of-the-world-near-ask-president-chelsea-clinton/#comment-256356</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Iâ€™ve often wondered if publishing â€œThe Riddle Of The Sandsâ€? may have forestalled the Kaiserâ€™s cousinly plans for Great Britain.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Unlikely, because Germany never seriously considered invading Britain. Its navy drafted a few amateurish warplans ca. 1900 but as it never came close even to parity with the Royal Navy, there was little chance of having to put them into effect. (Luckily for the German army!)

Dusting off my sources again, there &lt;em&gt;was&lt;/em&gt; a big kerfuffle resulting from &lt;em&gt;Riddle&lt;/em&gt;, which resulted in the first of several official committees to examine the invasion question, but the practical result of this was zero (no extra spending, no redeployments). And if it hadn't been Childers who alerted everyone to the German "threat", it would have been somebody else (probably le Queux) ... such was the paranoia of the day.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Iâ€™ve often wondered if publishing â€œThe Riddle Of The Sandsâ€? may have forestalled the Kaiserâ€™s cousinly plans for Great Britain.</p></blockquote>
<p>Unlikely, because Germany never seriously considered invading Britain. Its navy drafted a few amateurish warplans ca. 1900 but as it never came close even to parity with the Royal Navy, there was little chance of having to put them into effect. (Luckily for the German army!)</p>
<p>Dusting off my sources again, there <em>was</em> a big kerfuffle resulting from <em>Riddle</em>, which resulted in the first of several official committees to examine the invasion question, but the practical result of this was zero (no extra spending, no redeployments). And if it hadn&#8217;t been Childers who alerted everyone to the German &#8220;threat&#8221;, it would have been somebody else (probably le Queux) &#8230; such was the paranoia of the day.</p>
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		<title>By: steve</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/21/is-the-end-of-the-world-near-ask-president-chelsea-clinton/#comment-256231</link>
		<dc:creator>steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Dec 2006 09:15:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/21/is-the-end-of-the-world-near-ask-president-chelsea-clinton/#comment-256231</guid>
		<description>Graham - Ich habe es finden. Or as the Germans would say, I think that over time you confused the name of the &lt;a href="http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0264249/" rel="nofollow"&gt;film &lt;/a&gt;with the name of the director.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Graham - Ich habe es finden. Or as the Germans would say, I think that over time you confused the name of the <a href="http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0264249/" rel="nofollow">film </a>with the name of the director.</p>
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		<title>By: Graham Bell</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/21/is-the-end-of-the-world-near-ask-president-chelsea-clinton/#comment-255954</link>
		<dc:creator>Graham Bell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Dec 2006 06:47:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/21/is-the-end-of-the-world-near-ask-president-chelsea-clinton/#comment-255954</guid>
		<description>Nabakov:
Jeez!! I knew Churchill and his mob were  rats but that must take the prize for ingratitude!!  I've often wondered if publishing "The Riddle Of The Sands" may have forestalled the Kaiser's cousinly plans for Great Britain.  (If that is so then putting the US Army counter-insurgency field manual on internet recently might have been a similar cunning move; don't know).

Kim:
You are right.  "War Of The Worlds", like "THX-1138", was both science fiction and, for the astute, comment on the current situation and on the immediate future.   B.E.M.s from Mars are allowed to wear pickelhaubers too if the fashion strikes their fancy.:-)

Everyone:
Not quite off-topic but .... I've googled high and low without success trying to find a German TV serial (4 parts?) broadcast by the blessed AD-FREE!! SBS  around 1990~1992 called "Johkenin" or something like that - about village life in East Prussia from 1938 up to and beyond the Soviet Red Army invasion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nabakov:<br />
Jeez!! I knew Churchill and his mob were  rats but that must take the prize for ingratitude!!  I&#8217;ve often wondered if publishing &#8220;The Riddle Of The Sands&#8221; may have forestalled the Kaiser&#8217;s cousinly plans for Great Britain.  (If that is so then putting the US Army counter-insurgency field manual on internet recently might have been a similar cunning move; don&#8217;t know).</p>
<p>Kim:<br />
You are right.  &#8220;War Of The Worlds&#8221;, like &#8220;THX-1138&#8243;, was both science fiction and, for the astute, comment on the current situation and on the immediate future.   B.E.M.s from Mars are allowed to wear pickelhaubers too if the fashion strikes their fancy.:-)</p>
<p>Everyone:<br />
Not quite off-topic but &#8230;. I&#8217;ve googled high and low without success trying to find a German TV serial (4 parts?) broadcast by the blessed AD-FREE!! SBS  around 1990~1992 called &#8220;Johkenin&#8221; or something like that - about village life in East Prussia from 1938 up to and beyond the Soviet Red Army invasion.</p>
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		<title>By: steve</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/21/is-the-end-of-the-world-near-ask-president-chelsea-clinton/#comment-255616</link>
		<dc:creator>steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Dec 2006 02:24:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/21/is-the-end-of-the-world-near-ask-president-chelsea-clinton/#comment-255616</guid>
		<description>This article tosses around a few fundamentals of &lt;a href="http://www.thenewatlantis.com/archive/4/levin.htm" rel="nofollow"&gt;'Imaging the future' &lt;/a&gt;which is well worth a look.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This article tosses around a few fundamentals of <a href="http://www.thenewatlantis.com/archive/4/levin.htm" rel="nofollow">&#8216;Imaging the future&#8217; </a>which is well worth a look.</p>
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		<title>By: Kim</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/21/is-the-end-of-the-world-near-ask-president-chelsea-clinton/#comment-254518</link>
		<dc:creator>Kim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Dec 2006 13:14:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/21/is-the-end-of-the-world-near-ask-president-chelsea-clinton/#comment-254518</guid>
		<description>In a sense, Wells' &lt;em&gt;War of the Worlds&lt;/em&gt; is a bit of a twist and an oblique reference to the invasion literature genre.

Moorcock has written about Le Queux, I think. 

Back to the broader theme, I was thinking of some of the feminist sf of the 70s which does try to imagine non-patriarchal worlds (and often has libertarian/anarchist themes as well) - at its best, like Doris Pisterchia and Ursula Le Guin's early work, it's superb, precisely because it is so imaginative. At its worst, just like the invasion literature perhaps, it's appallingly dull and dry because it's too didactic and fails to imagine a utopia but rather stays well and truly within this world and casts stones.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In a sense, Wells&#8217; <em>War of the Worlds</em> is a bit of a twist and an oblique reference to the invasion literature genre.</p>
<p>Moorcock has written about Le Queux, I think. </p>
<p>Back to the broader theme, I was thinking of some of the feminist sf of the 70s which does try to imagine non-patriarchal worlds (and often has libertarian/anarchist themes as well) - at its best, like Doris Pisterchia and Ursula Le Guin&#8217;s early work, it&#8217;s superb, precisely because it is so imaginative. At its worst, just like the invasion literature perhaps, it&#8217;s appallingly dull and dry because it&#8217;s too didactic and fails to imagine a utopia but rather stays well and truly within this world and casts stones.</p>
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		<title>By: Brett</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/21/is-the-end-of-the-world-near-ask-president-chelsea-clinton/#comment-254511</link>
		<dc:creator>Brett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Dec 2006 13:10:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/21/is-the-end-of-the-world-near-ask-president-chelsea-clinton/#comment-254511</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;Riddle of the Sands&lt;/em&gt; is a great read, but that's one reason why I've never felt it was entirely representative of the invasion genre. Mostly they have very little literary value, though great historical value. It's also unrepresentative in that Childers pulls his punches: the big German invasion never happens. Most writers preferred to show the invasion itself, and/or its aftermath, to really bring the message home. He was also writing surprisingly early (1903); aside from a few imitators of &lt;em&gt;The Battle of Dorking&lt;/em&gt; in the 1870s, the German invasion genre didn't really take off until a few years after &lt;em&gt;Riddle&lt;/em&gt;. It's never really been clear to me how popular &lt;em&gt;Riddle&lt;/em&gt; was at the time, either -- it wasn't referred to much in the late Edwardian period, that I've noticed.

The author I would choose as the exemplar of the genre is William le Queux, who really set the bandwagon rolling in 1906 with his hugely popular &lt;em&gt;The Invasion of 1910&lt;/em&gt;, and was such a bad writer that in the middle of &lt;em&gt;Spies of the Kaiser&lt;/em&gt; he swapped the names of the two protagonists -- the brave intelligent one and the dimwitted but faithful sidekick -- apparently without realising it! So he has it all.

But for all that, if you only read one, &lt;em&gt;Riddle&lt;/em&gt; is certainly the one to read, with maybe Wodehouse's parody "The swoop!" for a chaser. I'm also fond of the movie, Michael York makes a fine Carruthers, wot wot.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>Riddle of the Sands</em> is a great read, but that&#8217;s one reason why I&#8217;ve never felt it was entirely representative of the invasion genre. Mostly they have very little literary value, though great historical value. It&#8217;s also unrepresentative in that Childers pulls his punches: the big German invasion never happens. Most writers preferred to show the invasion itself, and/or its aftermath, to really bring the message home. He was also writing surprisingly early (1903); aside from a few imitators of <em>The Battle of Dorking</em> in the 1870s, the German invasion genre didn&#8217;t really take off until a few years after <em>Riddle</em>. It&#8217;s never really been clear to me how popular <em>Riddle</em> was at the time, either &#8212; it wasn&#8217;t referred to much in the late Edwardian period, that I&#8217;ve noticed.</p>
<p>The author I would choose as the exemplar of the genre is William le Queux, who really set the bandwagon rolling in 1906 with his hugely popular <em>The Invasion of 1910</em>, and was such a bad writer that in the middle of <em>Spies of the Kaiser</em> he swapped the names of the two protagonists &#8212; the brave intelligent one and the dimwitted but faithful sidekick &#8212; apparently without realising it! So he has it all.</p>
<p>But for all that, if you only read one, <em>Riddle</em> is certainly the one to read, with maybe Wodehouse&#8217;s parody &#8220;The swoop!&#8221; for a chaser. I&#8217;m also fond of the movie, Michael York makes a fine Carruthers, wot wot.</p>
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		<title>By: Cliff</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/21/is-the-end-of-the-world-near-ask-president-chelsea-clinton/#comment-254437</link>
		<dc:creator>Cliff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Dec 2006 12:24:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/21/is-the-end-of-the-world-near-ask-president-chelsea-clinton/#comment-254437</guid>
		<description>Culture wars fiction is certainly nothing new... these (ludicrous) plotlines described here are just very blatant examples. The Lord of the Rings is a paradigmatic example, in my opinion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Culture wars fiction is certainly nothing new&#8230; these (ludicrous) plotlines described here are just very blatant examples. The Lord of the Rings is a paradigmatic example, in my opinion.</p>
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		<title>By: steve</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/21/is-the-end-of-the-world-near-ask-president-chelsea-clinton/#comment-254108</link>
		<dc:creator>steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Dec 2006 09:29:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/21/is-the-end-of-the-world-near-ask-president-chelsea-clinton/#comment-254108</guid>
		<description>And Nabakov a great furphy is  what imagining the future will always be as will a life -threatening struggle also be a part of it but without the imagining we would all become conservatives yearning for the mythical good times of the idealised past.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And Nabakov a great furphy is  what imagining the future will always be as will a life -threatening struggle also be a part of it but without the imagining we would all become conservatives yearning for the mythical good times of the idealised past.</p>
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		<title>By: Nabakov</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/21/is-the-end-of-the-world-near-ask-president-chelsea-clinton/#comment-253967</link>
		<dc:creator>Nabakov</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Dec 2006 08:14:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/21/is-the-end-of-the-world-near-ask-president-chelsea-clinton/#comment-253967</guid>
		<description>Um...I didn't finish that last comment. I meant to dwell on the irony of the guy who wrote a massively popular book warning of the growing threat of German surface naval power and which helped inspire Churchill as he and Jacky Fisher reformed the RN, ended up getting shot with Winnie's blessings while German surface naval power as a deciding factor during the Great War turned out to be a complete furphy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Um&#8230;I didn&#8217;t finish that last comment. I meant to dwell on the irony of the guy who wrote a massively popular book warning of the growing threat of German surface naval power and which helped inspire Churchill as he and Jacky Fisher reformed the RN, ended up getting shot with Winnie&#8217;s blessings while German surface naval power as a deciding factor during the Great War turned out to be a complete furphy.</p>
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		<title>By: Nabakov</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/21/is-the-end-of-the-world-near-ask-president-chelsea-clinton/#comment-253960</link>
		<dc:creator>Nabakov</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Dec 2006 08:02:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/21/is-the-end-of-the-world-near-ask-president-chelsea-clinton/#comment-253960</guid>
		<description>And Graham, "Riddle of the Sands" is a great yarn although it's worth noting its author was executed for treason by a British firing squad to Churchill's great satisfaction.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And Graham, &#8220;Riddle of the Sands&#8221; is a great yarn although it&#8217;s worth noting its author was executed for treason by a British firing squad to Churchill&#8217;s great satisfaction.</p>
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		<title>By: Nabakov</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/21/is-the-end-of-the-world-near-ask-president-chelsea-clinton/#comment-253957</link>
		<dc:creator>Nabakov</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Dec 2006 07:55:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/21/is-the-end-of-the-world-near-ask-president-chelsea-clinton/#comment-253957</guid>
		<description>"I see great merit in shepherding our cultural warriors back into the realm of fiction."

Yes, that way they always get to write the happy ending. Another well flambÃ©d one liner Ants.

Bob F, stop being so defensive. It sounds like you've written a lively and popular thriller. Wish I could. More power to your elbow.

But history and literature, and the history of literature, is chokkas with otherwise entertaining yarns claiming never mind the width, feel the quality 'cos it really could it happen here. But it never does as the future is never what we remember - aside from a few prescient fragments by PK Dick and JG Ballard.

Speaking of which and of "invasion fever", it's also worth revisiting Saki's novel of the UK under German rule, "When William Came". HH Munro (Saki) was a very shrewd professional political pundit and a writer of genius yet when it came to how the looming WW1 would play out, he got it utterly wrong.

It's still a good read though, especially at the end when the aristocratic protagonist is briefed by a high Tory matriarch to make the supreme sacrifice - that is to become a travelling salesman moving through the countryside fostering insurgent cells to fight the hi-tech occupying power.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I see great merit in shepherding our cultural warriors back into the realm of fiction.&#8221;</p>
<p>Yes, that way they always get to write the happy ending. Another well flambÃ©d one liner Ants.</p>
<p>Bob F, stop being so defensive. It sounds like you&#8217;ve written a lively and popular thriller. Wish I could. More power to your elbow.</p>
<p>But history and literature, and the history of literature, is chokkas with otherwise entertaining yarns claiming never mind the width, feel the quality &#8216;cos it really could it happen here. But it never does as the future is never what we remember - aside from a few prescient fragments by PK Dick and JG Ballard.</p>
<p>Speaking of which and of &#8220;invasion fever&#8221;, it&#8217;s also worth revisiting Saki&#8217;s novel of the UK under German rule, &#8220;When William Came&#8221;. HH Munro (Saki) was a very shrewd professional political pundit and a writer of genius yet when it came to how the looming WW1 would play out, he got it utterly wrong.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s still a good read though, especially at the end when the aristocratic protagonist is briefed by a high Tory matriarch to make the supreme sacrifice - that is to become a travelling salesman moving through the countryside fostering insurgent cells to fight the hi-tech occupying power.</p>
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		<title>By: Graham Bell</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/21/is-the-end-of-the-world-near-ask-president-chelsea-clinton/#comment-253849</link>
		<dc:creator>Graham Bell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Dec 2006 05:02:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/21/is-the-end-of-the-world-near-ask-president-chelsea-clinton/#comment-253849</guid>
		<description>Everyone:
If you want to get a feeling for the "invasion fever" in Great Britain in the years before the First World War broke out, read the novel "Riddle Of The Sands"; the 'Seventies film, based on a much abriged version of the story, isn't too bad either.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Everyone:<br />
If you want to get a feeling for the &#8220;invasion fever&#8221; in Great Britain in the years before the First World War broke out, read the novel &#8220;Riddle Of The Sands&#8221;; the &#8216;Seventies film, based on a much abriged version of the story, isn&#8217;t too bad either.</p>
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		<title>By: anthony</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/21/is-the-end-of-the-world-near-ask-president-chelsea-clinton/#comment-253814</link>
		<dc:creator>anthony</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Dec 2006 04:01:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/21/is-the-end-of-the-world-near-ask-president-chelsea-clinton/#comment-253814</guid>
		<description>Funny you should mention Man in the High Castle, John (it was Philip K Dick BTW). On one level it's about the Japanese taking over the West Coast after WWII this playing into invasion anxieties. But on another level, it's about being a stranger in your own country. Both deal with a loss of supremacy but one stokes fears and the other encourages empathy. I wonder if there's a sharp division on how the book is taken.

Like the Japanese flight simulator addict who tried to hijack a plane to fly under Rainbow Bridge, I see great merit in shepherding our cultural warriors back into the realm of fiction.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Funny you should mention Man in the High Castle, John (it was Philip K Dick BTW). On one level it&#8217;s about the Japanese taking over the West Coast after WWII this playing into invasion anxieties. But on another level, it&#8217;s about being a stranger in your own country. Both deal with a loss of supremacy but one stokes fears and the other encourages empathy. I wonder if there&#8217;s a sharp division on how the book is taken.</p>
<p>Like the Japanese flight simulator addict who tried to hijack a plane to fly under Rainbow Bridge, I see great merit in shepherding our cultural warriors back into the realm of fiction.</p>
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		<title>By: Risby</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/21/is-the-end-of-the-world-near-ask-president-chelsea-clinton/#comment-253241</link>
		<dc:creator>Risby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Dec 2006 21:52:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/21/is-the-end-of-the-world-near-ask-president-chelsea-clinton/#comment-253241</guid>
		<description>"Perhaps the left needs to understand that confronting the culture warriors with reasoned arguments is only part of the game. It will be won when, and if, we can imagine different worlds."

Well said. As a student of environmental policy and an employee of an environmental agency I recently struggled with why the concept of a sustainable society was so hard to grasp, why we continually need to re-argue the case for it and why it is most frequently articulated as economic sustainability, rather than social or environmental sustainabilty. 

It wasn't until I listened to a talk by David Suzuki that I realised what I was missing, and therefore what most of us were probably missing: a vision for the world in 30 years time. I had no idea of what a sustainable society would look like other than "better", so therefore I was letting other people decide how it would develop.

A good story revolves around conflict in a plot line, so perhaps sf writers have more to work with when they imagine society in disarray. It may be difficult to find a recognisable protagonist in a society-wide shift to renewable energy, or water conservation, on which to base a sf novel of this nature, but you do have an excellent point Mark. What other genres and forms of communication can be used to create the imagery that the left needs to inspire the shifts that they are arguing for?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Perhaps the left needs to understand that confronting the culture warriors with reasoned arguments is only part of the game. It will be won when, and if, we can imagine different worlds.&#8221;</p>
<p>Well said. As a student of environmental policy and an employee of an environmental agency I recently struggled with why the concept of a sustainable society was so hard to grasp, why we continually need to re-argue the case for it and why it is most frequently articulated as economic sustainability, rather than social or environmental sustainabilty. </p>
<p>It wasn&#8217;t until I listened to a talk by David Suzuki that I realised what I was missing, and therefore what most of us were probably missing: a vision for the world in 30 years time. I had no idea of what a sustainable society would look like other than &#8220;better&#8221;, so therefore I was letting other people decide how it would develop.</p>
<p>A good story revolves around conflict in a plot line, so perhaps sf writers have more to work with when they imagine society in disarray. It may be difficult to find a recognisable protagonist in a society-wide shift to renewable energy, or water conservation, on which to base a sf novel of this nature, but you do have an excellent point Mark. What other genres and forms of communication can be used to create the imagery that the left needs to inspire the shifts that they are arguing for?</p>
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		<title>By: robert ferrigno</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/21/is-the-end-of-the-world-near-ask-president-chelsea-clinton/#comment-252802</link>
		<dc:creator>robert ferrigno</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Dec 2006 16:18:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/21/is-the-end-of-the-world-near-ask-president-chelsea-clinton/#comment-252802</guid>
		<description>Mark
i'm the writer of the NY Times bestselling "potboiler" Prayers for the Assassin, which posits a future civil war in the US, after which most of the country converts to Islam and the Christians relocated to the Deep South.
You might have found Weigel's article in the LA Times fascinating, but i found it rather dim and overly literal. the background to my novel is contained in a high school history paper circa 2025 by one of the main characters:

Though the jihadi attacks had little direct, long-term impact on the United States, the true importance of the 9-11 martyrdom was that it induced the former regime to over-extend itself in fruitless and expensive military engagements around the world. The political and economic consequences of this U.S. response were profound and long lasting. After all their short-lived triumphs in the Islamic homeworld, the Crusaders fled, grown weary war, eager to return to their idle pursuits.  This great retreat left the West no safer than before, but instead drained it of capital, manpower and, most importantly, will.

Yeah, I know it's ridiculous and impossible to imagine.
all best
Robert</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark<br />
i&#8217;m the writer of the NY Times bestselling &#8220;potboiler&#8221; Prayers for the Assassin, which posits a future civil war in the US, after which most of the country converts to Islam and the Christians relocated to the Deep South.<br />
You might have found Weigel&#8217;s article in the LA Times fascinating, but i found it rather dim and overly literal. the background to my novel is contained in a high school history paper circa 2025 by one of the main characters:</p>
<p>Though the jihadi attacks had little direct, long-term impact on the United States, the true importance of the 9-11 martyrdom was that it induced the former regime to over-extend itself in fruitless and expensive military engagements around the world. The political and economic consequences of this U.S. response were profound and long lasting. After all their short-lived triumphs in the Islamic homeworld, the Crusaders fled, grown weary war, eager to return to their idle pursuits.  This great retreat left the West no safer than before, but instead drained it of capital, manpower and, most importantly, will.</p>
<p>Yeah, I know it&#8217;s ridiculous and impossible to imagine.<br />
all best<br />
Robert</p>
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		<title>By: john ryan</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/21/is-the-end-of-the-world-near-ask-president-chelsea-clinton/#comment-252215</link>
		<dc:creator>john ryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Dec 2006 07:00:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/21/is-the-end-of-the-world-near-ask-president-chelsea-clinton/#comment-252215</guid>
		<description>The man in the High Castle was not a bad SF yarn,Card is not my cup of tea,prefer SF english writers,also like short stories over long novels in the fiction section,but enjoy reading bios and such and history.
May be Card can go into competition with sciencetolgy, bloke who invented that was a SF writer</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The man in the High Castle was not a bad SF yarn,Card is not my cup of tea,prefer SF english writers,also like short stories over long novels in the fiction section,but enjoy reading bios and such and history.<br />
May be Card can go into competition with sciencetolgy, bloke who invented that was a SF writer</p>
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