Comments on: Is the end of the world near? Ask President (Chelsea) Clinton http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/21/is-the-end-of-the-world-near-ask-president-chelsea-clinton/ Life, Culture and Politics from BrisVegas Tue, 14 Feb 2012 10:11:31 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3 By: Graham Bell http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/21/is-the-end-of-the-world-near-ask-president-chelsea-clinton/#comment-290488 Graham Bell Sun, 24 Dec 2006 06:56:56 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/21/is-the-end-of-the-world-near-ask-president-chelsea-clinton/#comment-290488 Steve: Thanks a lot for that terrific link to the film database - but that film doesn't sound familiar so shall keep looking. :-) Brett: There was, however, a lot of worry about Germany's commercial ambitions and about their Kaiser, who everyone in the British ruling class - and every Prussian peasant - knew was as mad as a meat-axe (though few would dare say so in public) .... so the paranoia about invasion by Germany was probably justified to a certain extent. There are some interesting parallels between Kaiser Bill and Mr G W Bush. Invasion anyone? A nice quick little war? Steve:
Thanks a lot for that terrific link to the film database – but that film doesn’t sound familiar so shall keep looking. :-)

Brett:
There was, however, a lot of worry about Germany’s commercial ambitions and about their Kaiser, who everyone in the British ruling class – and every Prussian peasant – knew was as mad as a meat-axe (though few would dare say so in public) …. so the paranoia about invasion by Germany was probably justified to a certain extent.

There are some interesting parallels between Kaiser Bill and Mr G W Bush. Invasion anyone? A nice quick little war?

]]> By: Brett http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/21/is-the-end-of-the-world-near-ask-president-chelsea-clinton/#comment-290487 Brett Sat, 23 Dec 2006 10:38:35 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/21/is-the-end-of-the-world-near-ask-president-chelsea-clinton/#comment-290487 <blockquote>I’ve often wondered if publishing “The Riddle Of The Sandsâ€? may have forestalled the Kaiser’s cousinly plans for Great Britain.</blockquote> Unlikely, because Germany never seriously considered invading Britain. Its navy drafted a few amateurish warplans ca. 1900 but as it never came close even to parity with the Royal Navy, there was little chance of having to put them into effect. (Luckily for the German army!) Dusting off my sources again, there <em>was</em> a big kerfuffle resulting from <em>Riddle</em>, which resulted in the first of several official committees to examine the invasion question, but the practical result of this was zero (no extra spending, no redeployments). And if it hadn't been Childers who alerted everyone to the German "threat", it would have been somebody else (probably le Queux) ... such was the paranoia of the day.

I’ve often wondered if publishing “The Riddle Of The Sandsâ€? may have forestalled the Kaiser’s cousinly plans for Great Britain.

Unlikely, because Germany never seriously considered invading Britain. Its navy drafted a few amateurish warplans ca. 1900 but as it never came close even to parity with the Royal Navy, there was little chance of having to put them into effect. (Luckily for the German army!)

Dusting off my sources again, there was a big kerfuffle resulting from Riddle, which resulted in the first of several official committees to examine the invasion question, but the practical result of this was zero (no extra spending, no redeployments). And if it hadn’t been Childers who alerted everyone to the German “threat”, it would have been somebody else (probably le Queux) … such was the paranoia of the day.

]]> By: steve http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/21/is-the-end-of-the-world-near-ask-president-chelsea-clinton/#comment-290486 steve Sat, 23 Dec 2006 09:15:28 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/21/is-the-end-of-the-world-near-ask-president-chelsea-clinton/#comment-290486 Graham - Ich habe es finden. Or as the Germans would say, I think that over time you confused the name of the <a href="http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0264249/" rel="nofollow">film </a>with the name of the director. Graham – Ich habe es finden. Or as the Germans would say, I think that over time you confused the name of the film with the name of the director.

]]> By: Graham Bell http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/21/is-the-end-of-the-world-near-ask-president-chelsea-clinton/#comment-290485 Graham Bell Sat, 23 Dec 2006 06:47:01 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/21/is-the-end-of-the-world-near-ask-president-chelsea-clinton/#comment-290485 Nabakov: Jeez!! I knew Churchill and his mob were rats but that must take the prize for ingratitude!! I've often wondered if publishing "The Riddle Of The Sands" may have forestalled the Kaiser's cousinly plans for Great Britain. (If that is so then putting the US Army counter-insurgency field manual on internet recently might have been a similar cunning move; don't know). Kim: You are right. "War Of The Worlds", like "THX-1138", was both science fiction and, for the astute, comment on the current situation and on the immediate future. B.E.M.s from Mars are allowed to wear pickelhaubers too if the fashion strikes their fancy.:-) Everyone: Not quite off-topic but .... I've googled high and low without success trying to find a German TV serial (4 parts?) broadcast by the blessed AD-FREE!! SBS around 1990~1992 called "Johkenin" or something like that - about village life in East Prussia from 1938 up to and beyond the Soviet Red Army invasion. Nabakov:
Jeez!! I knew Churchill and his mob were rats but that must take the prize for ingratitude!! I’ve often wondered if publishing “The Riddle Of The Sands” may have forestalled the Kaiser’s cousinly plans for Great Britain. (If that is so then putting the US Army counter-insurgency field manual on internet recently might have been a similar cunning move; don’t know).

Kim:
You are right. “War Of The Worlds”, like “THX-1138″, was both science fiction and, for the astute, comment on the current situation and on the immediate future. B.E.M.s from Mars are allowed to wear pickelhaubers too if the fashion strikes their fancy.:-)

Everyone:
Not quite off-topic but …. I’ve googled high and low without success trying to find a German TV serial (4 parts?) broadcast by the blessed AD-FREE!! SBS around 1990~1992 called “Johkenin” or something like that – about village life in East Prussia from 1938 up to and beyond the Soviet Red Army invasion.

]]> By: steve http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/21/is-the-end-of-the-world-near-ask-president-chelsea-clinton/#comment-290484 steve Sat, 23 Dec 2006 02:24:24 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/21/is-the-end-of-the-world-near-ask-president-chelsea-clinton/#comment-290484 This article tosses around a few fundamentals of <a href="http://www.thenewatlantis.com/archive/4/levin.htm" rel="nofollow">'Imaging the future' </a>which is well worth a look. This article tosses around a few fundamentals of ‘Imaging the future’ which is well worth a look.

]]> By: Kim http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/21/is-the-end-of-the-world-near-ask-president-chelsea-clinton/#comment-290483 Kim Fri, 22 Dec 2006 13:14:43 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/21/is-the-end-of-the-world-near-ask-president-chelsea-clinton/#comment-290483 In a sense, Wells' <em>War of the Worlds</em> is a bit of a twist and an oblique reference to the invasion literature genre. Moorcock has written about Le Queux, I think. Back to the broader theme, I was thinking of some of the feminist sf of the 70s which does try to imagine non-patriarchal worlds (and often has libertarian/anarchist themes as well) - at its best, like Doris Pisterchia and Ursula Le Guin's early work, it's superb, precisely because it is so imaginative. At its worst, just like the invasion literature perhaps, it's appallingly dull and dry because it's too didactic and fails to imagine a utopia but rather stays well and truly within this world and casts stones. In a sense, Wells’ War of the Worlds is a bit of a twist and an oblique reference to the invasion literature genre.

Moorcock has written about Le Queux, I think.

Back to the broader theme, I was thinking of some of the feminist sf of the 70s which does try to imagine non-patriarchal worlds (and often has libertarian/anarchist themes as well) – at its best, like Doris Pisterchia and Ursula Le Guin’s early work, it’s superb, precisely because it is so imaginative. At its worst, just like the invasion literature perhaps, it’s appallingly dull and dry because it’s too didactic and fails to imagine a utopia but rather stays well and truly within this world and casts stones.

]]> By: Brett http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/21/is-the-end-of-the-world-near-ask-president-chelsea-clinton/#comment-290482 Brett Fri, 22 Dec 2006 13:10:30 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/21/is-the-end-of-the-world-near-ask-president-chelsea-clinton/#comment-290482 <em>Riddle of the Sands</em> is a great read, but that's one reason why I've never felt it was entirely representative of the invasion genre. Mostly they have very little literary value, though great historical value. It's also unrepresentative in that Childers pulls his punches: the big German invasion never happens. Most writers preferred to show the invasion itself, and/or its aftermath, to really bring the message home. He was also writing surprisingly early (1903); aside from a few imitators of <em>The Battle of Dorking</em> in the 1870s, the German invasion genre didn't really take off until a few years after <em>Riddle</em>. It's never really been clear to me how popular <em>Riddle</em> was at the time, either -- it wasn't referred to much in the late Edwardian period, that I've noticed. The author I would choose as the exemplar of the genre is William le Queux, who really set the bandwagon rolling in 1906 with his hugely popular <em>The Invasion of 1910</em>, and was such a bad writer that in the middle of <em>Spies of the Kaiser</em> he swapped the names of the two protagonists -- the brave intelligent one and the dimwitted but faithful sidekick -- apparently without realising it! So he has it all. But for all that, if you only read one, <em>Riddle</em> is certainly the one to read, with maybe Wodehouse's parody "The swoop!" for a chaser. I'm also fond of the movie, Michael York makes a fine Carruthers, wot wot. Riddle of the Sands is a great read, but that’s one reason why I’ve never felt it was entirely representative of the invasion genre. Mostly they have very little literary value, though great historical value. It’s also unrepresentative in that Childers pulls his punches: the big German invasion never happens. Most writers preferred to show the invasion itself, and/or its aftermath, to really bring the message home. He was also writing surprisingly early (1903); aside from a few imitators of The Battle of Dorking in the 1870s, the German invasion genre didn’t really take off until a few years after Riddle. It’s never really been clear to me how popular Riddle was at the time, either — it wasn’t referred to much in the late Edwardian period, that I’ve noticed.

The author I would choose as the exemplar of the genre is William le Queux, who really set the bandwagon rolling in 1906 with his hugely popular The Invasion of 1910, and was such a bad writer that in the middle of Spies of the Kaiser he swapped the names of the two protagonists — the brave intelligent one and the dimwitted but faithful sidekick — apparently without realising it! So he has it all.

But for all that, if you only read one, Riddle is certainly the one to read, with maybe Wodehouse’s parody “The swoop!” for a chaser. I’m also fond of the movie, Michael York makes a fine Carruthers, wot wot.

]]> By: Cliff http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/21/is-the-end-of-the-world-near-ask-president-chelsea-clinton/#comment-290481 Cliff Fri, 22 Dec 2006 12:24:12 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/21/is-the-end-of-the-world-near-ask-president-chelsea-clinton/#comment-290481 Culture wars fiction is certainly nothing new... these (ludicrous) plotlines described here are just very blatant examples. The Lord of the Rings is a paradigmatic example, in my opinion. Culture wars fiction is certainly nothing new… these (ludicrous) plotlines described here are just very blatant examples. The Lord of the Rings is a paradigmatic example, in my opinion.

]]> By: steve http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/21/is-the-end-of-the-world-near-ask-president-chelsea-clinton/#comment-290480 steve Fri, 22 Dec 2006 09:29:49 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/21/is-the-end-of-the-world-near-ask-president-chelsea-clinton/#comment-290480 And Nabakov a great furphy is what imagining the future will always be as will a life -threatening struggle also be a part of it but without the imagining we would all become conservatives yearning for the mythical good times of the idealised past. And Nabakov a great furphy is what imagining the future will always be as will a life -threatening struggle also be a part of it but without the imagining we would all become conservatives yearning for the mythical good times of the idealised past.

]]> By: Nabakov http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/21/is-the-end-of-the-world-near-ask-president-chelsea-clinton/#comment-290479 Nabakov Fri, 22 Dec 2006 08:14:13 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/12/21/is-the-end-of-the-world-near-ask-president-chelsea-clinton/#comment-290479 Um...I didn't finish that last comment. I meant to dwell on the irony of the guy who wrote a massively popular book warning of the growing threat of German surface naval power and which helped inspire Churchill as he and Jacky Fisher reformed the RN, ended up getting shot with Winnie's blessings while German surface naval power as a deciding factor during the Great War turned out to be a complete furphy. Um…I didn’t finish that last comment. I meant to dwell on the irony of the guy who wrote a massively popular book warning of the growing threat of German surface naval power and which helped inspire Churchill as he and Jacky Fisher reformed the RN, ended up getting shot with Winnie’s blessings while German surface naval power as a deciding factor during the Great War turned out to be a complete furphy.

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