Comments on: How the Dems can oppose the war and support the troops at the same time http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/01/10/how-the-dems-can-oppose-the-war-and-support-the-troops-at-the-same-time/ Life, Culture and Politics from BrisVegas Tue, 14 Feb 2012 10:11:31 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3 By: Graham Bell http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/01/10/how-the-dems-can-oppose-the-war-and-support-the-troops-at-the-same-time/#comment-284127 Graham Bell Thu, 11 Jan 2007 14:17:28 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/01/10/how-the-dems-can-oppose-the-war-and-support-the-troops-at-the-same-time/#comment-284127 David Jackmanson:<blockquote>The idea that the USA would accept a change of the party of the President by means of a double-impeachment or double-resignation is quite far-fetched. </blockquote>Far-fetched as that may be, it is still a h*ll of a lot less risky than allowing G W Bush and his cronies to continue destroying the Great Republic. If Nancy Pelosi did become interim president there is a very good chance she would score a triple win:... 1. achieve some sort of resolution to the conflicts in both Iraq and in Palestine; 2. withdraw US and COW troops carefully and so avoid a repeat of Hitler's Stalingrad disaster or Napoleon's Middle-East stuff-up and, while she is on the job, 3. start kicking some terrorist ars*s. Bismarck: <blockquote>I had no political axe to grind with Mark in my comment. It was purely a bit of light-hearted nitpicking</blockquote> and I took it as such. Just on Kerry: definitely no hagiography there, none!! and my mention of FDR was quite deliberate. Despite being among the multitude outside the US who were astonished when born-loser G W Bush was re-elected .... I felt a touch of relief because, despite Kerry's fight to stop the useless slaughter in the Viet-Nam War, had he been elected president, he would not have pussy-footed around and we would now be in a full-on war. A winnable war being fought on American terms but still a war. Too late now; the die has been cast. Everyone: My post at 12:46pm had <blockquote>and to force His Court Jester to reign as well …. </blockquote> No. No. No. Not "reign" but "RESIGN", I was too soft on the "S" key. Resign! Resign! Resign! David Jackmanson:
The idea that the USA would accept a change of the party of the President by means of a double-impeachment or double-resignation is quite far-fetched.

Far-fetched as that may be, it is still a h*ll of a lot less risky than allowing G W Bush and his cronies to continue destroying the Great Republic. If Nancy Pelosi did become interim president there is a very good chance she would score a triple win:… 1. achieve some sort of resolution to the conflicts in both Iraq and in Palestine; 2. withdraw US and COW troops carefully and so avoid a repeat of Hitler’s Stalingrad disaster or Napoleon’s Middle-East stuff-up and, while she is on the job, 3. start kicking some terrorist ars*s.

Bismarck:

I had no political axe to grind with Mark in my comment. It was purely a bit of light-hearted nitpicking

and I took it as such. Just on Kerry: definitely no hagiography there, none!! and my mention of FDR was quite deliberate. Despite being among the multitude outside the US who were astonished when born-loser G W Bush was re-elected …. I felt a touch of relief because, despite Kerry’s fight to stop the useless slaughter in the Viet-Nam War, had he been elected president, he would not have pussy-footed around and we would now be in a full-on war. A winnable war being fought on American terms but still a war. Too late now; the die has been cast.

Everyone:
My post at 12:46pm had

and to force His Court Jester to reign as well ….

No. No. No. Not “reign” but “RESIGN”, I was too soft on the “S” key. Resign! Resign! Resign!

]]> By: j_p_z http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/01/10/how-the-dems-can-oppose-the-war-and-support-the-troops-at-the-same-time/#comment-284126 j_p_z Thu, 11 Jan 2007 09:35:27 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/01/10/how-the-dems-can-oppose-the-war-and-support-the-troops-at-the-same-time/#comment-284126 Another Kim -- no, actually I think that's a big mistake, and potentially sort of a nihilist one to boot. There's a lot of matter for thought in all of that, but let's not get into it here -- this is an Oz blog, after all! Another Kim — no, actually I think that’s a big mistake, and potentially sort of a nihilist one to boot. There’s a lot of matter for thought in all of that, but let’s not get into it here — this is an Oz blog, after all!

]]> By: Mark http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/01/10/how-the-dems-can-oppose-the-war-and-support-the-troops-at-the-same-time/#comment-284125 Mark Thu, 11 Jan 2007 06:21:05 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/01/10/how-the-dems-can-oppose-the-war-and-support-the-troops-at-the-same-time/#comment-284125 V2 is excellent on his dark Senate arts. V2 is excellent on his dark Senate arts.

]]> By: Christine Keeler http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/01/10/how-the-dems-can-oppose-the-war-and-support-the-troops-at-the-same-time/#comment-284124 Christine Keeler Thu, 11 Jan 2007 06:20:10 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/01/10/how-the-dems-can-oppose-the-war-and-support-the-troops-at-the-same-time/#comment-284124 I read V1 of Caro's biography about ten years ago and gained a new appreciation of Johnson and his practice of the dark arts in Texas and in the Senate. Yet to catch up with V2. So he got all those boys killed, you might as well laugh. He was an absolute original. Here's Lyndon ordering a pair of pants: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmNcfIB_mQ0 I read V1 of Caro’s biography about ten years ago and gained a new appreciation of Johnson and his practice of the dark arts in Texas and in the Senate. Yet to catch up with V2.

So he got all those boys killed, you might as well laugh. He was an absolute original. Here’s Lyndon ordering a pair of pants: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmNcfIB_mQ0

]]> By: Another Kim http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/01/10/how-the-dems-can-oppose-the-war-and-support-the-troops-at-the-same-time/#comment-284123 Another Kim Thu, 11 Jan 2007 06:13:41 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/01/10/how-the-dems-can-oppose-the-war-and-support-the-troops-at-the-same-time/#comment-284123 Graham, et al.. did you know that no one here gives a healthy shit about what anyone thinks about us anymore? JPZ, am I correct? Graham, et al..

did you know that no one here gives a healthy shit about what anyone thinks about us anymore?

JPZ, am I correct?

]]> By: Mark http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/01/10/how-the-dems-can-oppose-the-war-and-support-the-troops-at-the-same-time/#comment-284122 Mark Thu, 11 Jan 2007 05:30:11 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/01/10/how-the-dems-can-oppose-the-war-and-support-the-troops-at-the-same-time/#comment-284122 I'm sure we can arrange something, Bismarck. :) I’m sure we can arrange something, Bismarck. :)

]]> By: Bismarck http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/01/10/how-the-dems-can-oppose-the-war-and-support-the-troops-at-the-same-time/#comment-284121 Bismarck Thu, 11 Jan 2007 05:24:03 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/01/10/how-the-dems-can-oppose-the-war-and-support-the-troops-at-the-same-time/#comment-284121 Mark, I agree that Dallek was altogether too easy on Johnson and also superficial in too many areas. I would have liked much more on his mastery of the black arts as leader in the Senate. On your recommendation, I have ordered Caro and will look forward to an appropriate forum here in which to drop my newly-acquired pearls of wisdom. Mark, I agree that Dallek was altogether too easy on Johnson and also superficial in too many areas. I would have liked much more on his mastery of the black arts as leader in the Senate. On your recommendation, I have ordered Caro and will look forward to an appropriate forum here in which to drop my newly-acquired pearls of wisdom.

]]> By: Mark http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/01/10/how-the-dems-can-oppose-the-war-and-support-the-troops-at-the-same-time/#comment-284120 Mark Thu, 11 Jan 2007 05:06:15 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/01/10/how-the-dems-can-oppose-the-war-and-support-the-troops-at-the-same-time/#comment-284120 The two volumes (so far) of Caro's biography are great reads, Bismarck. He's more hostile to LBJ than Dallek but really captures the complexity of the man and his motivations. The two volumes (so far) of Caro’s biography are great reads, Bismarck. He’s more hostile to LBJ than Dallek but really captures the complexity of the man and his motivations.

]]> By: Bismarck http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/01/10/how-the-dems-can-oppose-the-war-and-support-the-troops-at-the-same-time/#comment-284119 Bismarck Thu, 11 Jan 2007 05:04:49 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/01/10/how-the-dems-can-oppose-the-war-and-support-the-troops-at-the-same-time/#comment-284119 Thanks, Mark. I'll check that out. I find Johnson an intriguing figure (in both senses of the word). Thanks, Mark. I’ll check that out. I find Johnson an intriguing figure (in both senses of the word).

]]> By: Mark http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/01/10/how-the-dems-can-oppose-the-war-and-support-the-troops-at-the-same-time/#comment-284118 Mark Thu, 11 Jan 2007 05:04:37 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/01/10/how-the-dems-can-oppose-the-war-and-support-the-troops-at-the-same-time/#comment-284118 <b>Update</b>: Tim Dunlop links to the <a href="http://www.speaker.gov/newsroom/pressreleases?id=0027" rel="nofollow">Democrats' official response</a> and he <a href="http://blogs.news.com.au/news/blogocracy/index.php/news/comments/plan_b/" rel="nofollow">comments on Bush's speech</a> and cites this <a>key point</a> from Andrew Sullivan: <blockquote>The premise of the speech, and of the strategy, is that there is a national democratic government in Baghdad, defending itself against Jihadist attacks. The task, in the president’s mind, is therefore to send more troops to defend such a government. But the reality facing us each day is a starkly different one from the scenario assumed by the president. The government of which Bush speaks, to put it bluntly, does not exist. The reality illumined by the lynching of Saddam is that the Maliki government is a front for Shiite factions and dependent for its future on Shiite death squads. U.S. support for the government is not, therefore, a defense of democracy in a unified country, whatever our intentions. It is putting the lives of American soldiers in defense of the Shiite side in an increasingly brutal civil war.</blockquote> Update: Tim Dunlop links to the Democrats’ official response and he comments on Bush’s speech and cites this key point from Andrew Sullivan:

The premise of the speech, and of the strategy, is that there is a national democratic government in Baghdad, defending itself against Jihadist attacks. The task, in the president’s mind, is therefore to send more troops to defend such a government. But the reality facing us each day is a starkly different one from the scenario assumed by the president. The government of which Bush speaks, to put it bluntly, does not exist. The reality illumined by the lynching of Saddam is that the Maliki government is a front for Shiite factions and dependent for its future on Shiite death squads. U.S. support for the government is not, therefore, a defense of democracy in a unified country, whatever our intentions. It is putting the lives of American soldiers in defense of the Shiite side in an increasingly brutal civil war.

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