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	<title>Comments on: Women and WorkChoices</title>
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	<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/02/19/women-and-workchoices/</link>
	<description>Life, Culture and Politics from BrisVegas</description>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/02/19/women-and-workchoices/#comment-281353</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Sep 2007 02:01:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/02/19/women-and-workchoices/#comment-281353</guid>
		<description>Hi,
I realise this is a very old post, and this comment is unlikely to be seen.

However, I just wanted to correct some inaccuracy in the comments here. Specifically, I refer to the comments made regarding the gender pay gap in Western Australia. While it&#039;s true that WA has the worst gender pay gap in the country, and that this situation largely emerged during the early-mid 1990s, the divergence from the national average began prior to the implementation of the &lt;i&gt;Workplace Agreements Act (WA) 1993&lt;/i&gt;.
It would make things much easier if there were a clear causal relationship between WA Workplace Agreements and the gender pay gap; there is not.

Incidentally, the gender pay gap in WA worsened in 2002 as employers left state IR system in favour of the federal system.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi,<br />
I realise this is a very old post, and this comment is unlikely to be seen.</p>
<p>However, I just wanted to correct some inaccuracy in the comments here. Specifically, I refer to the comments made regarding the gender pay gap in Western Australia. While it&#8217;s true that WA has the worst gender pay gap in the country, and that this situation largely emerged during the early-mid 1990s, the divergence from the national average began prior to the implementation of the <i>Workplace Agreements Act (WA) 1993</i>.<br />
It would make things much easier if there were a clear causal relationship between WA Workplace Agreements and the gender pay gap; there is not.</p>
<p>Incidentally, the gender pay gap in WA worsened in 2002 as employers left state IR system in favour of the federal system.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/02/19/women-and-workchoices/#comment-281352</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Feb 2007 09:25:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/02/19/women-and-workchoices/#comment-281352</guid>
		<description>Debnam&#039;s almost inviting people to see the NSW election as a referendum on WorkChoices. Bizarre.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Debnam&#8217;s almost inviting people to see the NSW election as a referendum on WorkChoices. Bizarre.</p>
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		<title>By: Karen</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/02/19/women-and-workchoices/#comment-281351</link>
		<dc:creator>Karen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Feb 2007 04:12:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/02/19/women-and-workchoices/#comment-281351</guid>
		<description>I thought that was a clever move by the ALP. It gets one of the most important, powerful unions with the strongest community support for almost any profession explicitly on side with the ALP and will resonate with many other public sector workers, e.g. other health workers, teachers, public transport workers, etc., who are furious with the ALP, for good reason, but who need to be hauled into line to make sure the Libs, who would be infinitely worse, are not a temptation at the ballot box. Of course, it is precisely among these sectors that many are most likely to give their first vote to independents, above all, the Greens.

And yes, if there is one section of the female workforce which knows exactly what is going on wages and conditions wise it is nurses and their unions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I thought that was a clever move by the ALP. It gets one of the most important, powerful unions with the strongest community support for almost any profession explicitly on side with the ALP and will resonate with many other public sector workers, e.g. other health workers, teachers, public transport workers, etc., who are furious with the ALP, for good reason, but who need to be hauled into line to make sure the Libs, who would be infinitely worse, are not a temptation at the ballot box. Of course, it is precisely among these sectors that many are most likely to give their first vote to independents, above all, the Greens.</p>
<p>And yes, if there is one section of the female workforce which knows exactly what is going on wages and conditions wise it is nurses and their unions.</p>
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		<title>By: Mindy</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/02/19/women-and-workchoices/#comment-281350</link>
		<dc:creator>Mindy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Feb 2007 03:32:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/02/19/women-and-workchoices/#comment-281350</guid>
		<description>NSW Nurses are campaigning on a &#039;Liberal Govt. in NSW could lead to loss of nurses in NSW because of changes to workplace laws&#039; ticket. Apparently nurses in NSW are currently protected by state labour laws which they think a Debenham liberal govt. could abolish leaving them open to losing their conditions and pay rates. Could be interesting to see if it has any effect.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>NSW Nurses are campaigning on a &#8216;Liberal Govt. in NSW could lead to loss of nurses in NSW because of changes to workplace laws&#8217; ticket. Apparently nurses in NSW are currently protected by state labour laws which they think a Debenham liberal govt. could abolish leaving them open to losing their conditions and pay rates. Could be interesting to see if it has any effect.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/02/19/women-and-workchoices/#comment-281349</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Feb 2007 09:07:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/02/19/women-and-workchoices/#comment-281349</guid>
		<description>The Queensland Government has continued to produce a lot of research about working conditions and IR:

http://www.dir.qld.gov.au/publications/subject/industrialrelations/index.htm#i

I haven&#039;t checked the terms of reference, but I imagine the forthcoming report of the State IR Commission into the impact of WorkChoices will feature data on the impact on gender equity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Queensland Government has continued to produce a lot of research about working conditions and IR:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.dir.qld.gov.au/publications/subject/industrialrelations/index.htm#i" rel="nofollow">http://www.dir.qld.gov.au/publications/subject/industrialrelations/index.htm#i</a></p>
<p>I haven&#8217;t checked the terms of reference, but I imagine the forthcoming report of the State IR Commission into the impact of WorkChoices will feature data on the impact on gender equity.</p>
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		<title>By: Greta</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/02/19/women-and-workchoices/#comment-281348</link>
		<dc:creator>Greta</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Feb 2007 08:50:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/02/19/women-and-workchoices/#comment-281348</guid>
		<description>It is important to remember that the relative lack of detailed knowledge we have about women&#039;s position in the workforce today is missing precisely because of the Howard and state Labor governments&#039; deliberate strategies to dismantle, gut and  and block research and policy development relating to this andfunding for the government agencies that previously did it. We are have been made deliberately data deficient.

It is great that some academics are still doing invaluable work around this, but the gutting of previously well-resourced agencies like HREOC, and at a state level, industrial relations and anti-discrimination agencies, and in NSW, the abolition after the last election, of the Department of Women, plus the loss of funding for working women&#039;s centres, et., all amount to a catastrophic loss and defeat of historic proportions.

It means we are flying blind to a large extent. It means unions and others have been hamstrung and rendered ineffectual and incapable of producing the demographic and industrial analysis needed to even approximate the story of what is happening economically to working women today - something that we were able to do much better even four years ago on a state level, though it has been ten years and more federally since we could.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is important to remember that the relative lack of detailed knowledge we have about women&#8217;s position in the workforce today is missing precisely because of the Howard and state Labor governments&#8217; deliberate strategies to dismantle, gut and  and block research and policy development relating to this andfunding for the government agencies that previously did it. We are have been made deliberately data deficient.</p>
<p>It is great that some academics are still doing invaluable work around this, but the gutting of previously well-resourced agencies like HREOC, and at a state level, industrial relations and anti-discrimination agencies, and in NSW, the abolition after the last election, of the Department of Women, plus the loss of funding for working women&#8217;s centres, et., all amount to a catastrophic loss and defeat of historic proportions.</p>
<p>It means we are flying blind to a large extent. It means unions and others have been hamstrung and rendered ineffectual and incapable of producing the demographic and industrial analysis needed to even approximate the story of what is happening economically to working women today &#8211; something that we were able to do much better even four years ago on a state level, though it has been ten years and more federally since we could.</p>
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		<title>By: pattipatpat</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/02/19/women-and-workchoices/#comment-281347</link>
		<dc:creator>pattipatpat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Feb 2007 08:38:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/02/19/women-and-workchoices/#comment-281347</guid>
		<description>Talking to a Telegraph only reader over the last few days, she said she would vote against the federal government solely on IR (she was pretty angry) but would vote Liberal for the state because even though she likes Iemma&#039;s face, she, grrr, doesn&#039;t like the Labor state government.  She won&#039;t consider voting for the Greens because they caused all the bushfires!  My point is no matter how much guff she swallows from Rupert on other issues she will make up her own mind regarding her hip pocket.  You can&#039;t fool people into thinking they&#039;re better off when they know they&#039;re worse off, no matter how little detail you release.  The issue remains, sitting quietly, waiting to take a huge chunk out of the government&#039;s arse.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Talking to a Telegraph only reader over the last few days, she said she would vote against the federal government solely on IR (she was pretty angry) but would vote Liberal for the state because even though she likes Iemma&#8217;s face, she, grrr, doesn&#8217;t like the Labor state government.  She won&#8217;t consider voting for the Greens because they caused all the bushfires!  My point is no matter how much guff she swallows from Rupert on other issues she will make up her own mind regarding her hip pocket.  You can&#8217;t fool people into thinking they&#8217;re better off when they know they&#8217;re worse off, no matter how little detail you release.  The issue remains, sitting quietly, waiting to take a huge chunk out of the government&#8217;s arse.</p>
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		<title>By: tooz</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/02/19/women-and-workchoices/#comment-281346</link>
		<dc:creator>tooz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Feb 2007 05:23:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/02/19/women-and-workchoices/#comment-281346</guid>
		<description>If the WorkChoices issue has lost any potency in the electorate, and I&#039;m not sure that it HAS, that would be down to Howard&#039;s hurried implementation of it as soon as he could after the last election. Knowing, as he would, what Australians&#039; political memory and apathy are like, and giving people the maximum possible time to &quot;get over it&quot;. He surely is a crafty and fully loathsome rodent.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If the WorkChoices issue has lost any potency in the electorate, and I&#8217;m not sure that it HAS, that would be down to Howard&#8217;s hurried implementation of it as soon as he could after the last election. Knowing, as he would, what Australians&#8217; political memory and apathy are like, and giving people the maximum possible time to &#8220;get over it&#8221;. He surely is a crafty and fully loathsome rodent.</p>
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		<title>By: amused</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/02/19/women-and-workchoices/#comment-281345</link>
		<dc:creator>amused</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Feb 2007 03:58:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/02/19/women-and-workchoices/#comment-281345</guid>
		<description>I agree Mark that it is &#039;outrageous&#039;, but to be honest, this is but one, albeit very important example, of the government ensuring that the &#039;facts&#039;, as opposed to its &#039;spin&#039; are not permitted to sully public debate.

On Richard Farmer&#039;s estimate about the likely electoral impact of the legislation on the overall vote, I would have agreed with him this time last year, but I think it will be bigger than that. The issue of  economic insecurity is playing larger than people might think, if all they read was Rupert&#039;s various versions of &#039;pravda in strine&#039;.

The interest rate rises were a &#039;wake up call&#039;. It has made people receptive to a number of key messages concerning the future, particularly for those who understand quite well that their wages/salaries are what keep them in respectable company, as opposed to sliding down a slope that appears to have no &#039;bottom&#039;. Make no mistake, the IR legislation permits a raft of other issues and concerns to be given &#039;airtime&#039; and none of it so far, looks good for the government. That does not mean of course that the government won&#039;t craft messages and spend money to reassure, and it doesn&#039;t mean they won&#039;t be successful. The issue is that concerns about the IR legislation are rather wider than just &#039;my wages and conditions at the moment&#039;.

That it is the danger for the government, and don&#039;t think they don&#039;t know it, whatever the egregious Hockey says in public..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree Mark that it is &#8216;outrageous&#8217;, but to be honest, this is but one, albeit very important example, of the government ensuring that the &#8216;facts&#8217;, as opposed to its &#8216;spin&#8217; are not permitted to sully public debate.</p>
<p>On Richard Farmer&#8217;s estimate about the likely electoral impact of the legislation on the overall vote, I would have agreed with him this time last year, but I think it will be bigger than that. The issue of  economic insecurity is playing larger than people might think, if all they read was Rupert&#8217;s various versions of &#8216;pravda in strine&#8217;.</p>
<p>The interest rate rises were a &#8216;wake up call&#8217;. It has made people receptive to a number of key messages concerning the future, particularly for those who understand quite well that their wages/salaries are what keep them in respectable company, as opposed to sliding down a slope that appears to have no &#8216;bottom&#8217;. Make no mistake, the IR legislation permits a raft of other issues and concerns to be given &#8216;airtime&#8217; and none of it so far, looks good for the government. That does not mean of course that the government won&#8217;t craft messages and spend money to reassure, and it doesn&#8217;t mean they won&#8217;t be successful. The issue is that concerns about the IR legislation are rather wider than just &#8216;my wages and conditions at the moment&#8217;.</p>
<p>That it is the danger for the government, and don&#8217;t think they don&#8217;t know it, whatever the egregious Hockey says in public..</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/02/19/women-and-workchoices/#comment-281344</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Feb 2007 03:38:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/02/19/women-and-workchoices/#comment-281344</guid>
		<description>There was a fair bit of debate on the debate at Troppo last week:

http://www.clubtroppo.com.au/2007/02/15/hockeys-shtick/

I still think WorkChoices has some salience as an issue. The $28.5 million fighting fund the ACTU has raised and the move to put 16 full time organisers into federal electorates (including some that are not marginal - for instance Nationals held seats in regional Queensland which have some of the lowest wage numbers in the nation) is a wild card in the election.

But I also think that WorkChoices plays to concerns about security which are around in an age of constant workforce transformation and to concerns about fairness. Rudd and Gillard have been picking up on these, as they should.

The test will be how WorkChoices plays among the so-called âHoward battlersâ? (many of whom arenât the proverbial aspirational independent contractors - whose numbers are overstated anyway - Productivity Commission figures from 2004 put them at less than 10% of the workforce whereas the figures journos and the government use collapse sole professionals in non partnership arrangements and some small business owners in with contractors. In addition, many contractors donât meet the adapted common law test which the ATO applies - that is, they have only one âcustomerâ? for 80% of their income. Most of these folks are people like cleaners and call centre workers who are being paid less than award wages. One of the most significant changes in WorkChoices was to remove the power of State Commissions to declare that such contractors are really employees being deprived of employment rights).

Rod Cameron on Lateline last Friday estimated WorkChoices might shift half a percent or a percent of the Liberal vote across to Labor. That doesn&#039;t sound like much, but few &quot;issues&quot; have that much salience and remember that we&#039;re talking about swings in the order of 3 to 4 percent for Labor to win (depending on whether Labor can get a majority or whether Independents will hold the balance of power).

The fact that the OEA will not release information on AWAs is certainly a matter of political protection for the gov&#039;t. But it really is outrageous that significant public policy changes cannot be evaluated, and that transparency and accountaibility are junked for electoral advantage.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There was a fair bit of debate on the debate at Troppo last week:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.clubtroppo.com.au/2007/02/15/hockeys-shtick/" rel="nofollow">http://www.clubtroppo.com.au/2007/02/15/hockeys-shtick/</a></p>
<p>I still think WorkChoices has some salience as an issue. The $28.5 million fighting fund the ACTU has raised and the move to put 16 full time organisers into federal electorates (including some that are not marginal &#8211; for instance Nationals held seats in regional Queensland which have some of the lowest wage numbers in the nation) is a wild card in the election.</p>
<p>But I also think that WorkChoices plays to concerns about security which are around in an age of constant workforce transformation and to concerns about fairness. Rudd and Gillard have been picking up on these, as they should.</p>
<p>The test will be how WorkChoices plays among the so-called âHoward battlersâ? (many of whom arenât the proverbial aspirational independent contractors &#8211; whose numbers are overstated anyway &#8211; Productivity Commission figures from 2004 put them at less than 10% of the workforce whereas the figures journos and the government use collapse sole professionals in non partnership arrangements and some small business owners in with contractors. In addition, many contractors donât meet the adapted common law test which the ATO applies &#8211; that is, they have only one âcustomerâ? for 80% of their income. Most of these folks are people like cleaners and call centre workers who are being paid less than award wages. One of the most significant changes in WorkChoices was to remove the power of State Commissions to declare that such contractors are really employees being deprived of employment rights).</p>
<p>Rod Cameron on Lateline last Friday estimated WorkChoices might shift half a percent or a percent of the Liberal vote across to Labor. That doesn&#8217;t sound like much, but few &#8220;issues&#8221; have that much salience and remember that we&#8217;re talking about swings in the order of 3 to 4 percent for Labor to win (depending on whether Labor can get a majority or whether Independents will hold the balance of power).</p>
<p>The fact that the OEA will not release information on AWAs is certainly a matter of political protection for the gov&#8217;t. But it really is outrageous that significant public policy changes cannot be evaluated, and that transparency and accountaibility are junked for electoral advantage.</p>
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