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	<title>Comments on: Election issues:  transport edges out water shortages in wake of QM2</title>
	<atom:link href="http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/02/21/election-issues-transport-edges-out-water-shortages-in-wake-of-qm2/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/02/21/election-issues-transport-edges-out-water-shortages-in-wake-of-qm2/</link>
	<description>Life, Culture and Politics from BrisVegas</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 14 Feb 2012 10:11:31 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Francis Xavier Holden</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/02/21/election-issues-transport-edges-out-water-shortages-in-wake-of-qm2/#comment-281722</link>
		<dc:creator>Francis Xavier Holden</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Feb 2007 10:21:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/02/21/election-issues-transport-edges-out-water-shortages-in-wake-of-qm2/#comment-281722</guid>
		<description>aah La manolo blahnik Trioli  - overwrought inner city princess

best move we ever made exporting her

upped the average intelligence of both cities</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>aah La manolo blahnik Trioli  &#8211; overwrought inner city princess</p>
<p>best move we ever made exporting her</p>
<p>upped the average intelligence of both cities</p>
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		<title>By: Geoff Honnor</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/02/21/election-issues-transport-edges-out-water-shortages-in-wake-of-qm2/#comment-281721</link>
		<dc:creator>Geoff Honnor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Feb 2007 08:13:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/02/21/election-issues-transport-edges-out-water-shortages-in-wake-of-qm2/#comment-281721</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve been much encouraged by the innate good sense of Sydneysiders in SMH letters columns and the like as they&#039;ve laughed off the big boat beatup.

&quot;Get over it&quot; has been the clear and penetrating message. And may it penetrate as far as Trioli and Jones whose foam flecked, hair sticking to sweaty-faced rants on the morning after were absurdly overblown.

If only the ministers concerned had the good sense to tell them both to get stuffed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve been much encouraged by the innate good sense of Sydneysiders in SMH letters columns and the like as they&#8217;ve laughed off the big boat beatup.</p>
<p>&#8220;Get over it&#8221; has been the clear and penetrating message. And may it penetrate as far as Trioli and Jones whose foam flecked, hair sticking to sweaty-faced rants on the morning after were absurdly overblown.</p>
<p>If only the ministers concerned had the good sense to tell them both to get stuffed.</p>
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		<title>By: Sacha</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/02/21/election-issues-transport-edges-out-water-shortages-in-wake-of-qm2/#comment-281720</link>
		<dc:creator>Sacha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Feb 2007 02:27:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/02/21/election-issues-transport-edges-out-water-shortages-in-wake-of-qm2/#comment-281720</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;There was a traffic jam the other night because they are all right wing libertarians who follow the idiotic transport policy of the LDP. lol&lt;/blockquote&gt;
No doubt you&#039;re joking to make a point - but yes, if you were taking private transport that night, you may have had to deal with the collective consequences of you and a lot of other people taking private transport.

Maybe next time people might act differently after this experience.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>There was a traffic jam the other night because they are all right wing libertarians who follow the idiotic transport policy of the LDP. lol</p></blockquote>
<p>No doubt you&#8217;re joking to make a point &#8211; but yes, if you were taking private transport that night, you may have had to deal with the collective consequences of you and a lot of other people taking private transport.</p>
<p>Maybe next time people might act differently after this experience.</p>
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		<title>By: glen</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/02/21/election-issues-transport-edges-out-water-shortages-in-wake-of-qm2/#comment-281719</link>
		<dc:creator>glen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Feb 2007 02:14:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/02/21/election-issues-transport-edges-out-water-shortages-in-wake-of-qm2/#comment-281719</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Peter Debnam, leading the pack-rabble otherwise known as the NSW Liberals, was shadow transport minister for a number of years and is quite astute in his estimations and approach to NSW transport issues, despite his tub-thumping approach to other social issues. Transport is an issue with which he was and is deeply engaged, and I know this for a fact based on the time he has personally taken to act on and respond to communications from me in recent years.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

what, you mean like introducing the anti-hoon laws?

You have got to be kidding. Solving your problems, or even merely addressing them, does not mean he knows how to solve a state or city transport problem.

Debnam knows sfa about transport.  Do the liberals even have a transport policy?

girlgenius is spot on with her comment regarding the distributions of the population and the shifting demands on the transport infrastructure. Where is the fuinded research into suburban demographics and capacity of public transport?

There was a traffic jam the other night because they are all right wing libertarians who follow the idiotic transport policy of the LDP. lol</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Peter Debnam, leading the pack-rabble otherwise known as the NSW Liberals, was shadow transport minister for a number of years and is quite astute in his estimations and approach to NSW transport issues, despite his tub-thumping approach to other social issues. Transport is an issue with which he was and is deeply engaged, and I know this for a fact based on the time he has personally taken to act on and respond to communications from me in recent years.</p></blockquote>
<p>what, you mean like introducing the anti-hoon laws?</p>
<p>You have got to be kidding. Solving your problems, or even merely addressing them, does not mean he knows how to solve a state or city transport problem.</p>
<p>Debnam knows sfa about transport.  Do the liberals even have a transport policy?</p>
<p>girlgenius is spot on with her comment regarding the distributions of the population and the shifting demands on the transport infrastructure. Where is the fuinded research into suburban demographics and capacity of public transport?</p>
<p>There was a traffic jam the other night because they are all right wing libertarians who follow the idiotic transport policy of the LDP. lol</p>
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		<title>By: Fiasco da Gama</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/02/21/election-issues-transport-edges-out-water-shortages-in-wake-of-qm2/#comment-281718</link>
		<dc:creator>Fiasco da Gama</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Feb 2007 23:07:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/02/21/election-issues-transport-edges-out-water-shortages-in-wake-of-qm2/#comment-281718</guid>
		<description>And just like a pirate, he pinched the line (from Douglas Adams, on deadlines).
Geoff: I&#039;ll await the presser from Rev. Nile&#039;s office. Homosexuality Causes Traffic Chaos? Dykes On Bikes Clog Streets? God Hates Traffic Jams?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And just like a pirate, he pinched the line (from Douglas Adams, on deadlines).<br />
Geoff: I&#8217;ll await the presser from Rev. Nile&#8217;s office. Homosexuality Causes Traffic Chaos? Dykes On Bikes Clog Streets? God Hates Traffic Jams?</p>
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		<title>By: Guise</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/02/21/election-issues-transport-edges-out-water-shortages-in-wake-of-qm2/#comment-281717</link>
		<dc:creator>Guise</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Feb 2007 22:56:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/02/21/election-issues-transport-edges-out-water-shortages-in-wake-of-qm2/#comment-281717</guid>
		<description>Senhor da Gama, Canberra does indeed have a peak hour.  It used to be a peak quarter hour but as the Public Service has grown more fat and bloated the morning rush has become gradually worse.  Not major metropolis worse, but worse.

Fortunately, Canberra is blessed with a pretty good bus system, which includes strategically placed bus lanes.  Unlike Sydney, these are not rendered completely useless by on-street parking.  So to paraphrase Cap&#039;n Jack Sparrow, I love peak hour; I love tearing my gaze away from the newspaper to look down on all the single-occupant cars as my bus goes whizzing by.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Senhor da Gama, Canberra does indeed have a peak hour.  It used to be a peak quarter hour but as the Public Service has grown more fat and bloated the morning rush has become gradually worse.  Not major metropolis worse, but worse.</p>
<p>Fortunately, Canberra is blessed with a pretty good bus system, which includes strategically placed bus lanes.  Unlike Sydney, these are not rendered completely useless by on-street parking.  So to paraphrase Cap&#8217;n Jack Sparrow, I love peak hour; I love tearing my gaze away from the newspaper to look down on all the single-occupant cars as my bus goes whizzing by.</p>
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		<title>By: Geoff Honnor</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/02/21/election-issues-transport-edges-out-water-shortages-in-wake-of-qm2/#comment-281716</link>
		<dc:creator>Geoff Honnor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Feb 2007 19:24:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/02/21/election-issues-transport-edges-out-water-shortages-in-wake-of-qm2/#comment-281716</guid>
		<description>&quot;or put on special routes for events (like the NRL grand final, NYE, Mardi Gras, or a big fucking boat)&quot;

And Mardi Gras is on tomorrow week. Given the febrile, whiny-assed Sydney zetgeist, stand by for the Trioli/Jones Whinge Generator to fire up on the post-parade Monday morning airwaves with stories of entire extended families trapped in a vast traffic jam horror as a bunch of drag queens, leather-persons and local body politicians just meandered up Oxford St - &quot;they didn&#039;t seem to care, Virginia, that we were going to be an hour and seventeen minutes later than usual in getting home and where was the Premier, Virginia, where was the Premier?&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;or put on special routes for events (like the NRL grand final, NYE, Mardi Gras, or a big fucking boat)&#8221;</p>
<p>And Mardi Gras is on tomorrow week. Given the febrile, whiny-assed Sydney zetgeist, stand by for the Trioli/Jones Whinge Generator to fire up on the post-parade Monday morning airwaves with stories of entire extended families trapped in a vast traffic jam horror as a bunch of drag queens, leather-persons and local body politicians just meandered up Oxford St &#8211; &#8220;they didn&#8217;t seem to care, Virginia, that we were going to be an hour and seventeen minutes later than usual in getting home and where was the Premier, Virginia, where was the Premier?&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Oz</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/02/21/election-issues-transport-edges-out-water-shortages-in-wake-of-qm2/#comment-281715</link>
		<dc:creator>Oz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Feb 2007 14:07:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/02/21/election-issues-transport-edges-out-water-shortages-in-wake-of-qm2/#comment-281715</guid>
		<description>I personally the main problem when talking about public transport is that it is focused about getting to the Sydney CBD. Not everyone and a growing proportion of people won&#039;t be working in the CBD or regularly going there. We need to deal with that especially as there has been a policy of encouraging decentralisation in Sydney under the Labor Government and the development of other CBDs in places like Parramatta, Liverpool etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I personally the main problem when talking about public transport is that it is focused about getting to the Sydney CBD. Not everyone and a growing proportion of people won&#8217;t be working in the CBD or regularly going there. We need to deal with that especially as there has been a policy of encouraging decentralisation in Sydney under the Labor Government and the development of other CBDs in places like Parramatta, Liverpool etc.</p>
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		<title>By: FDB</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/02/21/election-issues-transport-edges-out-water-shortages-in-wake-of-qm2/#comment-281714</link>
		<dc:creator>FDB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Feb 2007 02:33:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/02/21/election-issues-transport-edges-out-water-shortages-in-wake-of-qm2/#comment-281714</guid>
		<description>The solution is to go back in time and shoot the retard who decided to get rid of light rail and allow cars in there in the first place.

Sorry Sydneysiders, the horse (-less carriage) has bolted.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The solution is to go back in time and shoot the retard who decided to get rid of light rail and allow cars in there in the first place.</p>
<p>Sorry Sydneysiders, the horse (-less carriage) has bolted.</p>
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		<title>By: Sacha</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/02/21/election-issues-transport-edges-out-water-shortages-in-wake-of-qm2/#comment-281713</link>
		<dc:creator>Sacha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Feb 2007 02:02:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/02/21/election-issues-transport-edges-out-water-shortages-in-wake-of-qm2/#comment-281713</guid>
		<description>The inner-Sydney light rail &quot;debate&quot; seems opaque to me.

Firstly, why do people want a different way of getting around the CBD or inner city? Probably because the heavy rail is a suburban mass train system and not that conducive to getting people around the inner city and the bus system is subject to delays as it uses the same system as cars and other vehicles do (the roads).

So what is wanted - a faster more efficient way of moving people around the CBD at least and maybe the inner city as well (which I&#039;d prefer). Light rail seems to be the favourite catchcry. But light rail isn&#039;t the only way of doing this, what&#039;s wanted is just some transport system that works.

Let&#039;s look at light rail for the moment. Assume that the light rail tracks are put on top of a couple of roads in the CBD. The roads are currently very narrow and there&#039;s not much scope to make new lanes for the light rail, so let&#039;s assume that the tracks are put on top of an existing lane of traffic (which might sometimes be a lane of parking).

If cars can drive on this lane along with the light rail trams, then the trams will be subject to being caught up in traffic just as buses are at the moment. If only trams are allowed to drive on these lanes then they won&#039;t be caught up in traffic as much (they&#039;ll only be caught up at traffic lights and other trams), but they will take up an entire existing lane of the road (unless the lanes are squeezed aside for the light rail). In either of these situations, the positives of introducing light rail are accompanied by negatives - either the trams are still caught up in traffic like buses are at the moment, or the non-tram capacity of the road is decreased significantly.

Of course, perhaps parts of footpaths could be reclaimed so that an extra lane for trams could be created.

If you just wanted a lane dedicated to light rail, you might as well just have lanes dedicated to buses and not allow any other vehicles on them.

The more substantive issue is whether the light-rail system is separate from the existing road and rail system, and so not subject to delays in either. This seems to me to be the starting point. I&#039;d like a &quot;light rail&quot; system (or whatever it is) to be separate from the road and rail systems (although with possible interlinks of course) so that delays in one don&#039;t mean delays in another.

You could have an underground/overground light rail/monorail/other system going north-south and east-west through the CBD and through to north sydney &amp; st leonards, and south to redfern/waterloo/alexandria, and east to edgecliff/bondi/SE suburbs and west to balmain/newton/stanmore/marrickville, or wherever you wanted it go. Of course, it would cost a lot but many cities have created these systems.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The inner-Sydney light rail &#8220;debate&#8221; seems opaque to me.</p>
<p>Firstly, why do people want a different way of getting around the CBD or inner city? Probably because the heavy rail is a suburban mass train system and not that conducive to getting people around the inner city and the bus system is subject to delays as it uses the same system as cars and other vehicles do (the roads).</p>
<p>So what is wanted &#8211; a faster more efficient way of moving people around the CBD at least and maybe the inner city as well (which I&#8217;d prefer). Light rail seems to be the favourite catchcry. But light rail isn&#8217;t the only way of doing this, what&#8217;s wanted is just some transport system that works.</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s look at light rail for the moment. Assume that the light rail tracks are put on top of a couple of roads in the CBD. The roads are currently very narrow and there&#8217;s not much scope to make new lanes for the light rail, so let&#8217;s assume that the tracks are put on top of an existing lane of traffic (which might sometimes be a lane of parking).</p>
<p>If cars can drive on this lane along with the light rail trams, then the trams will be subject to being caught up in traffic just as buses are at the moment. If only trams are allowed to drive on these lanes then they won&#8217;t be caught up in traffic as much (they&#8217;ll only be caught up at traffic lights and other trams), but they will take up an entire existing lane of the road (unless the lanes are squeezed aside for the light rail). In either of these situations, the positives of introducing light rail are accompanied by negatives &#8211; either the trams are still caught up in traffic like buses are at the moment, or the non-tram capacity of the road is decreased significantly.</p>
<p>Of course, perhaps parts of footpaths could be reclaimed so that an extra lane for trams could be created.</p>
<p>If you just wanted a lane dedicated to light rail, you might as well just have lanes dedicated to buses and not allow any other vehicles on them.</p>
<p>The more substantive issue is whether the light-rail system is separate from the existing road and rail system, and so not subject to delays in either. This seems to me to be the starting point. I&#8217;d like a &#8220;light rail&#8221; system (or whatever it is) to be separate from the road and rail systems (although with possible interlinks of course) so that delays in one don&#8217;t mean delays in another.</p>
<p>You could have an underground/overground light rail/monorail/other system going north-south and east-west through the CBD and through to north sydney &amp; st leonards, and south to redfern/waterloo/alexandria, and east to edgecliff/bondi/SE suburbs and west to balmain/newton/stanmore/marrickville, or wherever you wanted it go. Of course, it would cost a lot but many cities have created these systems.</p>
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