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	<title>Comments on: Stopgap fighter planes and a lazy six billion dollars or so</title>
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	<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/03/07/stopgap-fighter-planes-and-a-lazy-six-billion-dollars-or-so/</link>
	<description>Life, Culture and Politics from BrisVegas</description>
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		<title>By: Fiasco da Gama</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/03/07/stopgap-fighter-planes-and-a-lazy-six-billion-dollars-or-so/#comment-196303</link>
		<dc:creator>Fiasco da Gama</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Apr 2007 07:48:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/03/07/stopgap-fighter-planes-and-a-lazy-six-billion-dollars-or-so/#comment-196303</guid>
		<description>Au contraire, stoka. From memory, the Swedes have the highest level of alcohol-related deaths in the EU, and some of the highest rates of drink-driving in the world. Watch the crowd the next time Jonas Björkman plays at the French open; I have a feeling their drunken yobbos might even outpace ours.* They&#039;re certainly a lot less embarrassing on TV than the Fanatics, who demean the profession of drunken yobbism, and really only beg on international television for a good cock-punching. But I digress into sport, where was I---things that go zoom-bang, right?
A hundred or more years of Swedish heavy-industrial history, building weapons for other people&#039;s wars tends to help things along, as does a bit of strategic neutrality. They&#039;re not quite as enthusiastic as the Czechs or the Belgians have been in arming dodgy régimes, and they&#039;ll never surpass the wonders of the People&#039;s Republic of Norinco, but they *have* branched out further in the high-tech area from those countries&#039; focus on efficient little small-arms. I&#039;d say by about 2070, if we start now, we should be at the Swedish level of military know-how. Get to it, corporate Australia.
*Mister President! We must &lt;em&gt;not allow&lt;/em&gt; a drunken-yobbo Gap!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Au contraire, stoka. From memory, the Swedes have the highest level of alcohol-related deaths in the EU, and some of the highest rates of drink-driving in the world. Watch the crowd the next time Jonas Björkman plays at the French open; I have a feeling their drunken yobbos might even outpace ours.* They&#8217;re certainly a lot less embarrassing on TV than the Fanatics, who demean the profession of drunken yobbism, and really only beg on international television for a good cock-punching. But I digress into sport, where was I&#8212;things that go zoom-bang, right?<br />
A hundred or more years of Swedish heavy-industrial history, building weapons for other people&#8217;s wars tends to help things along, as does a bit of strategic neutrality. They&#8217;re not quite as enthusiastic as the Czechs or the Belgians have been in arming dodgy régimes, and they&#8217;ll never surpass the wonders of the People&#8217;s Republic of Norinco, but they *have* branched out further in the high-tech area from those countries&#8217; focus on efficient little small-arms. I&#8217;d say by about 2070, if we start now, we should be at the Swedish level of military know-how. Get to it, corporate Australia.<br />
*Mister President! We must <em>not allow</em> a drunken-yobbo Gap!</p>
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		<title>By: stoka</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/03/07/stopgap-fighter-planes-and-a-lazy-six-billion-dollars-or-so/#comment-196302</link>
		<dc:creator>stoka</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Apr 2007 20:19:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/03/07/stopgap-fighter-planes-and-a-lazy-six-billion-dollars-or-so/#comment-196302</guid>
		<description>Fiasco

I made that suggestion precisely for the reasons you outline.
Our somewhat Neanderthal level of technology development and manufacturing would be seriously challenged to say the least by designing and building a state of the art aircraft. The Swedes seem able to manage it with a similar population, though I concede that their proportion of beer swilling yobbos is probably significantly less.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fiasco</p>
<p>I made that suggestion precisely for the reasons you outline.<br />
Our somewhat Neanderthal level of technology development and manufacturing would be seriously challenged to say the least by designing and building a state of the art aircraft. The Swedes seem able to manage it with a similar population, though I concede that their proportion of beer swilling yobbos is probably significantly less.</p>
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		<title>By: Fiasco da Gama</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/03/07/stopgap-fighter-planes-and-a-lazy-six-billion-dollars-or-so/#comment-196301</link>
		<dc:creator>Fiasco da Gama</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Apr 2007 00:52:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/03/07/stopgap-fighter-planes-and-a-lazy-six-billion-dollars-or-so/#comment-196301</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;we build our own. &lt;/blockquote&gt;
Ahem. I&#039;m going to take two approaches to this suggestion, stoka, first mocking, then serious.
One (mocking). Build our own? At the Camry plant in SA (that&#039;s eventually going to close down when Federal subsidy runs out), or the Ford plant in Geelong (ditto)? Which major Australian manufacturing base did you have in mind---the same ones that built the P76 and Lightburn Zephyr? Australian weapons manufacturing hasn&#039;t exactly covered itself in glory in the past: there was a decent if obsolete trainer in the Wirraway, but then again there was the Nomad, which put the f in fugly. True, in the forties we did manufacture decent Bren guns in the small-arms factory in Lithgow: a design licenced from a British firm who bought it from the Czechs, before the plant was occupied by the Germans, and before they sold the design to the Nationalist Chinese as well. Hooray for Aussie ingenuity!
As jets go, most of the airlines are desperately trying to get their maintenance operations offshore to Singapore or Malaysia, a telling comment about Australian engineering.
Two (serious). A home-grown design bureau for UAVs and long-range cruise missiles is something Russell Square should be looking at.
Our needs are quite different from those of the other UAV producers. The USA like theirs to be infinitely deployable anywhere, which doesn&#039;t really apply to us, the Israelis like theirs to be small, fast, and short-range to avoid Palestinian 9mm anti-aircraft pistols, and the Europeans&#039; seem to be designed like Vespas: perfect for blasting around cobbled streets, shouting and gesticulating, but not much chop anywhere else. An Australian UAV is yet to be produced.
As for cruise: way of the future. That&#039;s all I need to say about that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>we build our own. </p></blockquote>
<p>Ahem. I&#8217;m going to take two approaches to this suggestion, stoka, first mocking, then serious.<br />
One (mocking). Build our own? At the Camry plant in SA (that&#8217;s eventually going to close down when Federal subsidy runs out), or the Ford plant in Geelong (ditto)? Which major Australian manufacturing base did you have in mind&#8212;the same ones that built the P76 and Lightburn Zephyr? Australian weapons manufacturing hasn&#8217;t exactly covered itself in glory in the past: there was a decent if obsolete trainer in the Wirraway, but then again there was the Nomad, which put the f in fugly. True, in the forties we did manufacture decent Bren guns in the small-arms factory in Lithgow: a design licenced from a British firm who bought it from the Czechs, before the plant was occupied by the Germans, and before they sold the design to the Nationalist Chinese as well. Hooray for Aussie ingenuity!<br />
As jets go, most of the airlines are desperately trying to get their maintenance operations offshore to Singapore or Malaysia, a telling comment about Australian engineering.<br />
Two (serious). A home-grown design bureau for UAVs and long-range cruise missiles is something Russell Square should be looking at.<br />
Our needs are quite different from those of the other UAV producers. The USA like theirs to be infinitely deployable anywhere, which doesn&#8217;t really apply to us, the Israelis like theirs to be small, fast, and short-range to avoid Palestinian 9mm anti-aircraft pistols, and the Europeans&#8217; seem to be designed like Vespas: perfect for blasting around cobbled streets, shouting and gesticulating, but not much chop anywhere else. An Australian UAV is yet to be produced.<br />
As for cruise: way of the future. That&#8217;s all I need to say about that.</p>
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		<title>By: stoka</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/03/07/stopgap-fighter-planes-and-a-lazy-six-billion-dollars-or-so/#comment-196300</link>
		<dc:creator>stoka</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Apr 2007 21:34:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/03/07/stopgap-fighter-planes-and-a-lazy-six-billion-dollars-or-so/#comment-196300</guid>
		<description>I like the idea propogated by Carlo Kopp.
Fit the F111 with supercruising engines, drop in the latest set of avionics etc. Or how is this for an idea - we build our own. Australia should design and build something the size of an F111 and with the stealth, range and other capabilities our geographic situation requires. Can&#039;t be done? Bullshit. We can do anything</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like the idea propogated by Carlo Kopp.<br />
Fit the F111 with supercruising engines, drop in the latest set of avionics etc. Or how is this for an idea &#8211; we build our own. Australia should design and build something the size of an F111 and with the stealth, range and other capabilities our geographic situation requires. Can&#8217;t be done? Bullshit. We can do anything</p>
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		<title>By: stoka</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/03/07/stopgap-fighter-planes-and-a-lazy-six-billion-dollars-or-so/#comment-196299</link>
		<dc:creator>stoka</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Apr 2007 21:30:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/03/07/stopgap-fighter-planes-and-a-lazy-six-billion-dollars-or-so/#comment-196299</guid>
		<description>Brendan Nelson must have made the decision to buy the Super Hornets just after his recent lobotomy, where unfortunately surgeons had to remove 99% of his brain.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brendan Nelson must have made the decision to buy the Super Hornets just after his recent lobotomy, where unfortunately surgeons had to remove 99% of his brain.</p>
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		<title>By: stoka</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/03/07/stopgap-fighter-planes-and-a-lazy-six-billion-dollars-or-so/#comment-196298</link>
		<dc:creator>stoka</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Apr 2007 21:29:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/03/07/stopgap-fighter-planes-and-a-lazy-six-billion-dollars-or-so/#comment-196298</guid>
		<description>The ideal mix for the RAAF would be to be armed to the teeth
We should upgrade our existing f111 fleet. On top of this we should buy about 20 F22 raptors, about 50 F35&#039;s and we would be able to kick arse!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The ideal mix for the RAAF would be to be armed to the teeth<br />
We should upgrade our existing f111 fleet. On top of this we should buy about 20 F22 raptors, about 50 F35&#8242;s and we would be able to kick arse!!</p>
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		<title>By: Nabakov</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/03/07/stopgap-fighter-planes-and-a-lazy-six-billion-dollars-or-so/#comment-196297</link>
		<dc:creator>Nabakov</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Mar 2007 22:55:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/03/07/stopgap-fighter-planes-and-a-lazy-six-billion-dollars-or-so/#comment-196297</guid>
		<description>Okey dokey, about to head to the Airshow again, still drunk from the night before. Any requests?

I should point out though from bitter experience, there&#039;s no way I&#039;m gonna fit a &#039;liberated&#039; 500lbd JDAM mockup into the boot or back seat of my mate&#039;s Puegeot. Do you a nice line in glossy brochures and cheesy caps though squire.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Okey dokey, about to head to the Airshow again, still drunk from the night before. Any requests?</p>
<p>I should point out though from bitter experience, there&#8217;s no way I&#8217;m gonna fit a &#8216;liberated&#8217; 500lbd JDAM mockup into the boot or back seat of my mate&#8217;s Puegeot. Do you a nice line in glossy brochures and cheesy caps though squire.</p>
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		<title>By: Nabakov</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/03/07/stopgap-fighter-planes-and-a-lazy-six-billion-dollars-or-so/#comment-196296</link>
		<dc:creator>Nabakov</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Mar 2007 17:52:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/03/07/stopgap-fighter-planes-and-a-lazy-six-billion-dollars-or-so/#comment-196296</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;At the birth of the F-35 Lightning II, however, the standard for a fighter model should have been increased greatly. The multiple capabilities are an advancement to the technology of the modernly used fighter planes. a new beginning area to the newly designed planes should be centered around stealth capabilites, payload, and range.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I suspect mike, you were cutting and pasting in somewhat the wrong order there. Also the JSF is a single engined, v. high maintence piece of machinery. Perhaps not the best thing for defending airspace over an enormous, dusty and thinly staffed and resourced frontier.

Been ambling around the Australian International Airshow today, and will again tomorrow, and want to definitely reconfirm a point I&#039;ve made before here about this overall issue.

THE SUPER HORNET IS THE LOUDEST AIRCRAFT, (OR INDEED ANYTHING) I HAVE EVER HEARD.

And I&#039;ve heard a lot of planes in my time, live near the Melbourne F1 track and once stood next to the PA during a Sonic Youth gig.

But that plane. Standing by the runway when it takes off, you have to check every one of your bodily openings for involuntary fluid leakage. Never mind it&#039;s &quot;stealthy&quot; intakes, I bet you would just hear 1000k out the bloody thing running into Jakarta. Or Wellington.

Nothing at all stealthy about that bumptious bumped-up hot rod. It&#039;s basically a regular hornet on steriods. Slower, larger, capable of carrying more bomby thingies and apparently more serviceable. But it&#039;s still basically the aerial equivilent of an up-armoured hummer with a tweaked motor.

Now cruise missiles stashed on the Sydney to Hobart yacht fleet. That&#039;s the way to go. New Zealand will never see that one coming.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>At the birth of the F-35 Lightning II, however, the standard for a fighter model should have been increased greatly. The multiple capabilities are an advancement to the technology of the modernly used fighter planes. a new beginning area to the newly designed planes should be centered around stealth capabilites, payload, and range.</p></blockquote>
<p>I suspect mike, you were cutting and pasting in somewhat the wrong order there. Also the JSF is a single engined, v. high maintence piece of machinery. Perhaps not the best thing for defending airspace over an enormous, dusty and thinly staffed and resourced frontier.</p>
<p>Been ambling around the Australian International Airshow today, and will again tomorrow, and want to definitely reconfirm a point I&#8217;ve made before here about this overall issue.</p>
<p>THE SUPER HORNET IS THE LOUDEST AIRCRAFT, (OR INDEED ANYTHING) I HAVE EVER HEARD.</p>
<p>And I&#8217;ve heard a lot of planes in my time, live near the Melbourne F1 track and once stood next to the PA during a Sonic Youth gig.</p>
<p>But that plane. Standing by the runway when it takes off, you have to check every one of your bodily openings for involuntary fluid leakage. Never mind it&#8217;s &#8220;stealthy&#8221; intakes, I bet you would just hear 1000k out the bloody thing running into Jakarta. Or Wellington.</p>
<p>Nothing at all stealthy about that bumptious bumped-up hot rod. It&#8217;s basically a regular hornet on steriods. Slower, larger, capable of carrying more bomby thingies and apparently more serviceable. But it&#8217;s still basically the aerial equivilent of an up-armoured hummer with a tweaked motor.</p>
<p>Now cruise missiles stashed on the Sydney to Hobart yacht fleet. That&#8217;s the way to go. New Zealand will never see that one coming.</p>
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		<title>By: mike</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/03/07/stopgap-fighter-planes-and-a-lazy-six-billion-dollars-or-so/#comment-196295</link>
		<dc:creator>mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Mar 2007 17:08:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/03/07/stopgap-fighter-planes-and-a-lazy-six-billion-dollars-or-so/#comment-196295</guid>
		<description>I agree to say that the F-111 is far superior to the Super Hornet but i must also agree that the F-22 Raptor is a great addition. Considering stealth capabilities, range and payload it becomes a greater threat to the enemy, even though, the F-22 isn&#039;t all that it&#039;s been cracked up to be with people claiming that it revolutionized the world basically. At the birth of the F-35 Lightning II, however, the standard for a fighter model should have been increased greatly. The multiple capabilities are an advancement to the technology of the modernly used fighter planes. a new beginning area to the newly designed planes should be centered around stealth capabilites, payload, and range.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree to say that the F-111 is far superior to the Super Hornet but i must also agree that the F-22 Raptor is a great addition. Considering stealth capabilities, range and payload it becomes a greater threat to the enemy, even though, the F-22 isn&#8217;t all that it&#8217;s been cracked up to be with people claiming that it revolutionized the world basically. At the birth of the F-35 Lightning II, however, the standard for a fighter model should have been increased greatly. The multiple capabilities are an advancement to the technology of the modernly used fighter planes. a new beginning area to the newly designed planes should be centered around stealth capabilites, payload, and range.</p>
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		<title>By: Christine Keeler</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/03/07/stopgap-fighter-planes-and-a-lazy-six-billion-dollars-or-so/#comment-196294</link>
		<dc:creator>Christine Keeler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Mar 2007 14:39:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/03/07/stopgap-fighter-planes-and-a-lazy-six-billion-dollars-or-so/#comment-196294</guid>
		<description>A bit more substantial than tea and tiffin. Tally ho!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A bit more substantial than tea and tiffin. Tally ho!</p>
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