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	<title>Comments on: Watery technological optimism</title>
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	<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/03/09/watery-technological-optimism/</link>
	<description>Life, Culture and Politics from BrisVegas</description>
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		<title>By: Graham Bell</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/03/09/watery-technological-optimism/#comment-196748</link>
		<dc:creator>Graham Bell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Mar 2007 12:16:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/03/09/watery-technological-optimism/#comment-196748</guid>
		<description>Patrickg:
Before any sensible discussion of securing long-term reliable sources of water for south-eastern Australia can begin, two points deserve to be borne in mind:

[1] Native Title exists solely because the Commonwealth Of Australia says it exists and continues to have the power to ensure it remains in existence ...... a matter that can be very abruptly changed with a few well-placed airstrikes and 152mm artillery barrages followed by drawing new lines and words on the maps.

[2] Nations and corporations [such as the East India Company] have always readily gone to war to conquer territory, to dominate strategic routes and to gain control of resources in the face of tremendous risks - be those risks casualties, loss of treasure or international condemnation.  Not nice ..... but that&#039;s the way the world works.

Australia has a wealth of unexploited resources [including water in northern Australia], a vacillating and weak government, puny defences and a tiny and docile population .... a situation that has, ever before in history, led inexorably to foreign intervention.     Why wouldn&#039;t any vigorous country or corporation want to hop in for their chop before Australia is &quot;carved up like a melon&quot; by everyone else?

Now .... about that apology for slandering me as a so-called &quot;racist&quot; .......</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Patrickg:<br />
Before any sensible discussion of securing long-term reliable sources of water for south-eastern Australia can begin, two points deserve to be borne in mind:</p>
<p>[1] Native Title exists solely because the Commonwealth Of Australia says it exists and continues to have the power to ensure it remains in existence &#8230;&#8230; a matter that can be very abruptly changed with a few well-placed airstrikes and 152mm artillery barrages followed by drawing new lines and words on the maps.</p>
<p>[2] Nations and corporations [such as the East India Company] have always readily gone to war to conquer territory, to dominate strategic routes and to gain control of resources in the face of tremendous risks &#8211; be those risks casualties, loss of treasure or international condemnation.  Not nice &#8230;.. but that&#8217;s the way the world works.</p>
<p>Australia has a wealth of unexploited resources [including water in northern Australia], a vacillating and weak government, puny defences and a tiny and docile population &#8230;. a situation that has, ever before in history, led inexorably to foreign intervention.     Why wouldn&#8217;t any vigorous country or corporation want to hop in for their chop before Australia is &#8220;carved up like a melon&#8221; by everyone else?</p>
<p>Now &#8230;. about that apology for slandering me as a so-called &#8220;racist&#8221; &#8230;&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: patrickg</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/03/09/watery-technological-optimism/#comment-196747</link>
		<dc:creator>patrickg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Mar 2007 06:42:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/03/09/watery-technological-optimism/#comment-196747</guid>
		<description>Sheesh, Graham, way to address my arguments.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sheesh, Graham, way to address my arguments.</p>
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		<title>By: Graham Bell</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/03/09/watery-technological-optimism/#comment-196746</link>
		<dc:creator>Graham Bell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Mar 2007 04:36:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/03/09/watery-technological-optimism/#comment-196746</guid>
		<description>Patrickg, you did indeed say&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;strong&gt;your comment displays no understanding of international relations or strategy.&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
:-0  oh dear, oh dear, you should have checked first ...... how many eggs to you have left to put all over your face? :-)

There&#039;s nothing new in your happy delusions; they&#039;ve been seen before  &quot;We don&#039;t have a thing to worry about with those Japanese, they&#039;re only short little men with buck-teeth who hiss at each other.  They all wear glasses and can&#039;t see in the dark.   All they can make are celluloid dolls and cheap goods&quot; [or words to that effect - about November 1941, I think].

All I did was make a practical comment on minimizing one of the risks to the future reliability of water supply for south-eastern Australia ...... and you jumped in with irrelevant and abusive posts based on so-called &quot;anti-racist&quot; screeching from back in the &#039;Seventies.    I&#039;m not going to waste any more of my time on your nonsense.

I am happy to discuss with anyone how to plan for securing long-term  reliable supplies of water.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Patrickg, you did indeed say<br />
<blockquote><strong>your comment displays no understanding of international relations or strategy.</strong></p></blockquote>
<p>:-0  oh dear, oh dear, you should have checked first &#8230;&#8230; how many eggs to you have left to put all over your face? <img src='http://larvatusprodeo.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>There&#8217;s nothing new in your happy delusions; they&#8217;ve been seen before  &#8220;We don&#8217;t have a thing to worry about with those Japanese, they&#8217;re only short little men with buck-teeth who hiss at each other.  They all wear glasses and can&#8217;t see in the dark.   All they can make are celluloid dolls and cheap goods&#8221; [or words to that effect - about November 1941, I think].</p>
<p>All I did was make a practical comment on minimizing one of the risks to the future reliability of water supply for south-eastern Australia &#8230;&#8230; and you jumped in with irrelevant and abusive posts based on so-called &#8220;anti-racist&#8221; screeching from back in the &#8216;Seventies.    I&#8217;m not going to waste any more of my time on your nonsense.</p>
<p>I am happy to discuss with anyone how to plan for securing long-term  reliable supplies of water.</p>
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		<title>By: patrickg</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/03/09/watery-technological-optimism/#comment-196745</link>
		<dc:creator>patrickg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Mar 2007 23:38:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/03/09/watery-technological-optimism/#comment-196745</guid>
		<description>Graham, if you honestly think Australia has a border or strategic defence issue to worry about, you must be living on another planet.

Regardless of what the internet says, your comment displays no understanding of international relations or strategy.

It doesn&#039;t matter how big Indonesia, China, whatever yellow menace you care to posit gets, northern Australia is not going to be invaded, bought etc.

The reasons for this are manifold, ranging from the sanctions an act of war would bring, the casualities; economic, social, and demographic, to the fact that, as I have already said, the land is basically un-defendable and &lt;i&gt;there is nothing there.&lt;/i&gt;

If, however, you think the evil nips are going to steal the land from right under our noses, I urge you to educate yourself by taking a look at &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.ipe.nt.gov.au/whatwedo/landavailable/landmap.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this map&lt;/a&gt;.

It details the types of land use in the Northern Territory. Note the &lt;b&gt;overwhelming&lt;/b&gt; amount of crown, freehold and indigenous land ownership. This land isn&#039;t for sale, Graham, only for rent, and ever will be.

You&#039;re right dude, I did imply you are a racist - what you said certainly stinks of it. I don&#039;t know you, so presumably you&#039;re making reference to the colour of your skin or something by arguing that I&#039;ve got it all wrong. If this is the case, I don&#039;t really see the relevance. The colour of your skin doesn&#039;t,  sadly, preclude anyone from being racist.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Graham, if you honestly think Australia has a border or strategic defence issue to worry about, you must be living on another planet.</p>
<p>Regardless of what the internet says, your comment displays no understanding of international relations or strategy.</p>
<p>It doesn&#8217;t matter how big Indonesia, China, whatever yellow menace you care to posit gets, northern Australia is not going to be invaded, bought etc.</p>
<p>The reasons for this are manifold, ranging from the sanctions an act of war would bring, the casualities; economic, social, and demographic, to the fact that, as I have already said, the land is basically un-defendable and <i>there is nothing there.</i></p>
<p>If, however, you think the evil nips are going to steal the land from right under our noses, I urge you to educate yourself by taking a look at <a href="http://www.ipe.nt.gov.au/whatwedo/landavailable/landmap.html" rel="nofollow">this map</a>.</p>
<p>It details the types of land use in the Northern Territory. Note the <b>overwhelming</b> amount of crown, freehold and indigenous land ownership. This land isn&#8217;t for sale, Graham, only for rent, and ever will be.</p>
<p>You&#8217;re right dude, I did imply you are a racist &#8211; what you said certainly stinks of it. I don&#8217;t know you, so presumably you&#8217;re making reference to the colour of your skin or something by arguing that I&#8217;ve got it all wrong. If this is the case, I don&#8217;t really see the relevance. The colour of your skin doesn&#8217;t,  sadly, preclude anyone from being racist.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/03/09/watery-technological-optimism/#comment-196744</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Mar 2007 15:16:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/03/09/watery-technological-optimism/#comment-196744</guid>
		<description>j_p_z, I&#039;ve been thinking of a post on the general principles of water rights. I have a story about a poor bloke in California who couldn&#039;t dam the water on his own farm. He lived in the hills and demonstrated that the water wouldn&#039;t flow down the stream to where the other people wanted it. That made no difference. So he tried to sink a bore over a thousand feet down and had terrible difficulty getting permission to do so.

Of course the Colorado River is a good example of just about all the difficulties you could imagine.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>j_p_z, I&#8217;ve been thinking of a post on the general principles of water rights. I have a story about a poor bloke in California who couldn&#8217;t dam the water on his own farm. He lived in the hills and demonstrated that the water wouldn&#8217;t flow down the stream to where the other people wanted it. That made no difference. So he tried to sink a bore over a thousand feet down and had terrible difficulty getting permission to do so.</p>
<p>Of course the Colorado River is a good example of just about all the difficulties you could imagine.</p>
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		<title>By: j_p_z</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/03/09/watery-technological-optimism/#comment-196743</link>
		<dc:creator>j_p_z</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Mar 2007 15:00:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/03/09/watery-technological-optimism/#comment-196743</guid>
		<description>Brian: &quot;There is a tendency for those upstream to think the water is theirs.&quot;

That&#039;s quite a sharp aphorism right there; it sort of belongs in Bartlett&#039;s.  It&#039;s got a certain ring of metaphoric truth to it.  Good one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brian: &#8220;There is a tendency for those upstream to think the water is theirs.&#8221;</p>
<p>That&#8217;s quite a sharp aphorism right there; it sort of belongs in Bartlett&#8217;s.  It&#8217;s got a certain ring of metaphoric truth to it.  Good one.</p>
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		<title>By: Graham Bell</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/03/09/watery-technological-optimism/#comment-196742</link>
		<dc:creator>Graham Bell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Mar 2007 12:58:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/03/09/watery-technological-optimism/#comment-196742</guid>
		<description>Patrickg:
The comment I made related to &lt;strong&gt;harsh economic, military and geopolitical realties of 2007.&lt;/strong&gt;   Much as you may wish it to be otherwise, &quot;race&quot; has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on the validity of my comment.      So you can tidy up your old-fashioned ever-so-clever sneers and put them away where you found them ..... then take yourself off to a library or roam through the internet to find out how rapidly some of the major players in our hemisphere have developed in the last quarter century or so ...... somehow, I think you&#039;ll be discomforted finding out.

The only silliness here is in making grandiose plans to use water that may not necessarily belong to us when the time comes to put such glorious schemes - &quot;pipedreams&quot; - into operation.

[b.t.w. You implied that I was a bull-headed racist.  Ooops!    You don&#039;t know me personally .....so .... can I offer you a few tissues to remove the egg you&#039;ve splattered all over your own face?    :-) L-O-L]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Patrickg:<br />
The comment I made related to <strong>harsh economic, military and geopolitical realties of 2007.</strong>   Much as you may wish it to be otherwise, &#8220;race&#8221; has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on the validity of my comment.      So you can tidy up your old-fashioned ever-so-clever sneers and put them away where you found them &#8230;.. then take yourself off to a library or roam through the internet to find out how rapidly some of the major players in our hemisphere have developed in the last quarter century or so &#8230;&#8230; somehow, I think you&#8217;ll be discomforted finding out.</p>
<p>The only silliness here is in making grandiose plans to use water that may not necessarily belong to us when the time comes to put such glorious schemes &#8211; &#8220;pipedreams&#8221; &#8211; into operation.</p>
<p>[b.t.w. You implied that I was a bull-headed racist.  Ooops!    You don't know me personally .....so .... can I offer you a few tissues to remove the egg you've splattered all over your own face?    <img src='http://larvatusprodeo.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' />  L-O-L]</p>
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		<title>By: patrickg</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/03/09/watery-technological-optimism/#comment-196741</link>
		<dc:creator>patrickg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Mar 2007 09:45:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/03/09/watery-technological-optimism/#comment-196741</guid>
		<description>Yeah Graham, we&#039;re all at peril from the yellow menace to the north. After all, they&#039;ve taken so much already haven&#039;t they? Those evil, japs, or charlies, or whatever.

We must defend against these countries that can barely look after themselves - they just can&#039;t wait to start an international war for the sake of some indefendable land, a bit of uranium and some bauxite!! Wooooo! Set loose the dogs of war!!!

That&#039;s a silly statement, and if you thought about any of the realities involved, I have no doubt you would be uncomfortably aware of you bull-headed racism that motivates it.

I do agree about the futility of reversing water, but I would be more inclined to cite those engineering reasons you cited (along with environmental), rather than our evil, imperialist, slanty-eyed Fu Manchu neighbours to the north.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah Graham, we&#8217;re all at peril from the yellow menace to the north. After all, they&#8217;ve taken so much already haven&#8217;t they? Those evil, japs, or charlies, or whatever.</p>
<p>We must defend against these countries that can barely look after themselves &#8211; they just can&#8217;t wait to start an international war for the sake of some indefendable land, a bit of uranium and some bauxite!! Wooooo! Set loose the dogs of war!!!</p>
<p>That&#8217;s a silly statement, and if you thought about any of the realities involved, I have no doubt you would be uncomfortably aware of you bull-headed racism that motivates it.</p>
<p>I do agree about the futility of reversing water, but I would be more inclined to cite those engineering reasons you cited (along with environmental), rather than our evil, imperialist, slanty-eyed Fu Manchu neighbours to the north.</p>
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		<title>By: Harry Clarke</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/03/09/watery-technological-optimism/#comment-196740</link>
		<dc:creator>Harry Clarke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Mar 2007 08:40:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/03/09/watery-technological-optimism/#comment-196740</guid>
		<description>This is a quality post. A feature of the Howard government&#039;s water proposals (and the self-interested clamour from the Nationals) is their very socialistic (the term is right) emphasis on what a central committee of water planners can do in terms of improved irrigation technology.

The emphasis should be on the buybacks.  This is the cheapest way of getting rid of the irrigation water over-allocation issue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a quality post. A feature of the Howard government&#8217;s water proposals (and the self-interested clamour from the Nationals) is their very socialistic (the term is right) emphasis on what a central committee of water planners can do in terms of improved irrigation technology.</p>
<p>The emphasis should be on the buybacks.  This is the cheapest way of getting rid of the irrigation water over-allocation issue.</p>
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		<title>By: Graham Bell</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/03/09/watery-technological-optimism/#comment-196739</link>
		<dc:creator>Graham Bell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Mar 2007 21:45:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/03/09/watery-technological-optimism/#comment-196739</guid>
		<description>Everyone:
There&#039;s one engineering solution to all our problems that can be chucked into the rubbish-bin right now: that of bringing water from northern Australia to the south.

In engineering terms it is quite possible, of course, but to do it you really have to own the land where all the rain falls on the first place.

Given Australia&#039;s neglectful, inappropriate defence and foreign relations over the past few decades, what gives you the idea that Australia will continue to own any of northern Australia for very much longer?

Back to the drawing-board ..... and savour your grey-water.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Everyone:<br />
There&#8217;s one engineering solution to all our problems that can be chucked into the rubbish-bin right now: that of bringing water from northern Australia to the south.</p>
<p>In engineering terms it is quite possible, of course, but to do it you really have to own the land where all the rain falls on the first place.</p>
<p>Given Australia&#8217;s neglectful, inappropriate defence and foreign relations over the past few decades, what gives you the idea that Australia will continue to own any of northern Australia for very much longer?</p>
<p>Back to the drawing-board &#8230;.. and savour your grey-water.</p>
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