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	<title>Comments on: Lessons from political opponents</title>
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	<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/03/28/lessons-from-political-opponents/</link>
	<description>Life, Culture and Politics from BrisVegas</description>
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		<title>By: David Jackmanson</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/03/28/lessons-from-political-opponents/#comment-200243</link>
		<dc:creator>David Jackmanson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Mar 2007 12:04:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/03/28/lessons-from-political-opponents/#comment-200243</guid>
		<description>Will you vote against laws that punish Internet filesharing?

Will you agitate to remove &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/tpa1974149/s45d.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Section 45D from the Trades Practices Act&lt;/a&gt;?
(Section 45D makes sympathy strikes illegal).

How will you encourage unions to be more active and powerful, and have more successful strikes that have public support?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Will you vote against laws that punish Internet filesharing?</p>
<p>Will you agitate to remove <a href="http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/tpa1974149/s45d.html" rel="nofollow">Section 45D from the Trades Practices Act</a>?<br />
(Section 45D makes sympathy strikes illegal).</p>
<p>How will you encourage unions to be more active and powerful, and have more successful strikes that have public support?</p>
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		<title>By: Nabakov</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/03/28/lessons-from-political-opponents/#comment-200242</link>
		<dc:creator>Nabakov</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Mar 2007 14:10:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/03/28/lessons-from-political-opponents/#comment-200242</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Too often left-wingers seem merely astounded that people could have opinions other than theirs&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Exhibit A. &#039;Let&#039;s Take Over&#039; and &#039;The Last Superpower&#039; on Iraq, true feminism and the &quot;pseudo-left&quot;.

Back OT after giving David a wedgie like the big bully I am - I reckon it&#039;s all about framing through language. If you define &quot;left vs right&quot; as &quot;community cohesiveness vs individual rights&quot; then all civilisations drift steadily leftwards, especially as more and more people occupy the same spaces.

But then lately we&#039;ve got this atomisation thing going on, spurred on by the webbytubes, where public spaces and services are seen more as an obstacle than an asset as one goes about one&#039;s online-enabled and commuter driven life.

So time to erect the ladder of opportunity on the welfare trampoline.

Hereâ??s a few random observations that could be worked up into some awkward questions for all our current and potential elected representatives.

â??When and why did being middle class need two incomes?â??
â??Why donâ??t you see packs of kids playing on the streets anymore?â??
â??Where do you draw the line at what can be advertised and where?â??
â??How much freedom should we give up to protect our freedoms (Do not attempt to write on both sides of the paper at once)?
â??What would you vote for in Parliament that never youâ??d never want to see in your own neighbourhood?â??
â??When did you stop screwing your electoral officer?â??</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Too often left-wingers seem merely astounded that people could have opinions other than theirs</p></blockquote>
<p>Exhibit A. &#8216;Let&#8217;s Take Over&#8217; and &#8216;The Last Superpower&#8217; on Iraq, true feminism and the &#8220;pseudo-left&#8221;.</p>
<p>Back OT after giving David a wedgie like the big bully I am &#8211; I reckon it&#8217;s all about framing through language. If you define &#8220;left vs right&#8221; as &#8220;community cohesiveness vs individual rights&#8221; then all civilisations drift steadily leftwards, especially as more and more people occupy the same spaces.</p>
<p>But then lately we&#8217;ve got this atomisation thing going on, spurred on by the webbytubes, where public spaces and services are seen more as an obstacle than an asset as one goes about one&#8217;s online-enabled and commuter driven life.</p>
<p>So time to erect the ladder of opportunity on the welfare trampoline.</p>
<p>Hereâ??s a few random observations that could be worked up into some awkward questions for all our current and potential elected representatives.</p>
<p>â??When and why did being middle class need two incomes?â??<br />
â??Why donâ??t you see packs of kids playing on the streets anymore?â??<br />
â??Where do you draw the line at what can be advertised and where?â??<br />
â??How much freedom should we give up to protect our freedoms (Do not attempt to write on both sides of the paper at once)?<br />
â??What would you vote for in Parliament that never youâ??d never want to see in your own neighbourhood?â??<br />
â??When did you stop screwing your electoral officer?â??</p>
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		<title>By: Brendon</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/03/28/lessons-from-political-opponents/#comment-200241</link>
		<dc:creator>Brendon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Mar 2007 12:34:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/03/28/lessons-from-political-opponents/#comment-200241</guid>
		<description>tigtog: &lt;blockquote&gt;What issues should be coverd on our list of questions to candidates for MP and Senator positions, and how should these be phrased so they are short and unequivocal, so that they force a definite answer?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Definitely no backsliding on getting out of Iraq. And definitely no backsliding on Howard&#039;s work laws.

I like Mick&#039;s points as well. We have to make our mind up whether we want our country to end up as a hole in the ground, or should we build our economy on research and industry. Politicians are naturally lazy and they normally opt for digging holes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>tigtog:<br />
<blockquote>What issues should be coverd on our list of questions to candidates for MP and Senator positions, and how should these be phrased so they are short and unequivocal, so that they force a definite answer?</p></blockquote>
<p>Definitely no backsliding on getting out of Iraq. And definitely no backsliding on Howard&#8217;s work laws.</p>
<p>I like Mick&#8217;s points as well. We have to make our mind up whether we want our country to end up as a hole in the ground, or should we build our economy on research and industry. Politicians are naturally lazy and they normally opt for digging holes.</p>
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		<title>By: Bridie</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/03/28/lessons-from-political-opponents/#comment-200240</link>
		<dc:creator>Bridie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Mar 2007 09:32:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/03/28/lessons-from-political-opponents/#comment-200240</guid>
		<description>NSW Labor will sign over to the Commonwealth only the Kuringai Chase National Park (north) and Royal National Park (south)  but not (rack off Liberals) the Blue Mountains World Heritage Area, in order to allow these pig- cat- deer- and weed- infested areas to be nuclear waste dumps. Rightly so too. NIMBY baby.

Alternatively, NSW Labor will accede to the Murdoch press demand and &quot;free up&quot; this land to ease housing pressure for Sydney&#039;s exponentially growing populace.

You read it here first. posterity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>NSW Labor will sign over to the Commonwealth only the Kuringai Chase National Park (north) and Royal National Park (south)  but not (rack off Liberals) the Blue Mountains World Heritage Area, in order to allow these pig- cat- deer- and weed- infested areas to be nuclear waste dumps. Rightly so too. NIMBY baby.</p>
<p>Alternatively, NSW Labor will accede to the Murdoch press demand and &#8220;free up&#8221; this land to ease housing pressure for Sydney&#8217;s exponentially growing populace.</p>
<p>You read it here first. posterity.</p>
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		<title>By: David Jackmanson</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/03/28/lessons-from-political-opponents/#comment-200239</link>
		<dc:creator>David Jackmanson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Mar 2007 09:16:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/03/28/lessons-from-political-opponents/#comment-200239</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I’m not being facetious when I ask people to explain exactly what would be different under a Labor Government. I’m yet to receive an answer.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Employers will be forbidden from forcing people to work on public holidays.

Important to those who take their religion seriously.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I’m not being facetious when I ask people to explain exactly what would be different under a Labor Government. I’m yet to receive an answer.</p></blockquote>
<p>Employers will be forbidden from forcing people to work on public holidays.</p>
<p>Important to those who take their religion seriously.</p>
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		<title>By: Alex</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/03/28/lessons-from-political-opponents/#comment-200238</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Mar 2007 09:11:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/03/28/lessons-from-political-opponents/#comment-200238</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not being facetious when I ask people to explain exactly what would be different under a Labor Government.  I&#039;m yet to receive an answer.

It&#039;s time for die hard Labor (progressives) to emerge from the horrendous denial that they&#039;re currently in, and admit that new Labor no longer represents their interests.

Continuing to vote for them only validates their decision to continue the move to the right.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not being facetious when I ask people to explain exactly what would be different under a Labor Government.  I&#8217;m yet to receive an answer.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s time for die hard Labor (progressives) to emerge from the horrendous denial that they&#8217;re currently in, and admit that new Labor no longer represents their interests.</p>
<p>Continuing to vote for them only validates their decision to continue the move to the right.</p>
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		<title>By: David Jackmanson</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/03/28/lessons-from-political-opponents/#comment-200237</link>
		<dc:creator>David Jackmanson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Mar 2007 09:07:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/03/28/lessons-from-political-opponents/#comment-200237</guid>
		<description>While I agree completely with

&lt;blockquote&gt;because of the onslaught of an insatiable system that has proved itself more powerful than existing oppositional social movements and alternative political parties, this is indeed exactly what we must expect.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

, I think that Bridie perhaps exaggerates the strength of the Left in the last 25 years.

It&#039;s important to remember that the Hawke Government, elected 24 years ago, is considered the first shining example that Mr Blair drew inspiration from. Hawke did emotional connection with the electorate 9 years before President Clinton&#039;s election.

Nor was Mr Whitlam a left-winger either. He was loathed by the Left of the ALP for his position on State Aid, did everything he could to minimise the power of the anti-Vietnam street marches. WRT the general attitude of LP regulars, I was surprised to have Kim pretty much agree with me on a different thread that Whitlam was not especially progressive (I had expected, clearly wrongly, an angry defence of the Great Man).

The points that Bridie and Anna Winter make are very important. Any leftward shift in politics has to begin with left-wingers taking responsibility for convincing people that a left agenda is desirable. Too often left-wingers seem merely astounded that people could have opinions other than theirs, instead of deciding to work out why people hold those opinions, and how to change them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I agree completely with</p>
<blockquote><p>because of the onslaught of an insatiable system that has proved itself more powerful than existing oppositional social movements and alternative political parties, this is indeed exactly what we must expect.</p></blockquote>
<p>, I think that Bridie perhaps exaggerates the strength of the Left in the last 25 years.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s important to remember that the Hawke Government, elected 24 years ago, is considered the first shining example that Mr Blair drew inspiration from. Hawke did emotional connection with the electorate 9 years before President Clinton&#8217;s election.</p>
<p>Nor was Mr Whitlam a left-winger either. He was loathed by the Left of the ALP for his position on State Aid, did everything he could to minimise the power of the anti-Vietnam street marches. WRT the general attitude of LP regulars, I was surprised to have Kim pretty much agree with me on a different thread that Whitlam was not especially progressive (I had expected, clearly wrongly, an angry defence of the Great Man).</p>
<p>The points that Bridie and Anna Winter make are very important. Any leftward shift in politics has to begin with left-wingers taking responsibility for convincing people that a left agenda is desirable. Too often left-wingers seem merely astounded that people could have opinions other than theirs, instead of deciding to work out why people hold those opinions, and how to change them.</p>
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		<title>By: mick</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/03/28/lessons-from-political-opponents/#comment-200236</link>
		<dc:creator>mick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Mar 2007 09:06:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/03/28/lessons-from-political-opponents/#comment-200236</guid>
		<description>Some of these could do with some tweaking but I think that they are on the right track:

How will you revive Australia&#039;s ailing research sector?

Should Australia&#039;s research sector be able to compete with Europe, the United States, and China?

Should Australia&#039;s future wealth be based on innovation or resources?

Should Australians enjoy the world&#039;s best working conditions?

Do you believe that all Australians should have the right to high quality health care?

Do you agree that Australia has som of the most beautiful beaches and National Parks on the planet? What will you do to maintain this standard?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some of these could do with some tweaking but I think that they are on the right track:</p>
<p>How will you revive Australia&#8217;s ailing research sector?</p>
<p>Should Australia&#8217;s research sector be able to compete with Europe, the United States, and China?</p>
<p>Should Australia&#8217;s future wealth be based on innovation or resources?</p>
<p>Should Australians enjoy the world&#8217;s best working conditions?</p>
<p>Do you believe that all Australians should have the right to high quality health care?</p>
<p>Do you agree that Australia has som of the most beautiful beaches and National Parks on the planet? What will you do to maintain this standard?</p>
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		<title>By: Bridie</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/03/28/lessons-from-political-opponents/#comment-200235</link>
		<dc:creator>Bridie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Mar 2007 08:44:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/03/28/lessons-from-political-opponents/#comment-200235</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;This raises an interesting question for â??progressivesâ?? in Australia. Has Howard been so successful in fundamentally changing the Australian political landscape that the only hope the progressives or Labor has nationally is to do a Tony Blair.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Good if obvious point, though it has taken such a long time for anyone here to say it. Such has been the degeneration, the impoverishment of left political culture over the last 25 years, primarily because of the onslaught of an insatiable system that has proved itself more powerful than existing oppositional social movements and alternative political parties, this is indeed &lt;strong&gt;exactly &lt;/strong&gt;what we must expect.

It is frightening, but most people don&#039;t believe, let alone are even saying the juggernaut can or even must be stopped.

And this blog site, therefore, unsurprisingly, is a fitting exemplification of this truth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>This raises an interesting question for â??progressivesâ?? in Australia. Has Howard been so successful in fundamentally changing the Australian political landscape that the only hope the progressives or Labor has nationally is to do a Tony Blair.</p></blockquote>
<p>Good if obvious point, though it has taken such a long time for anyone here to say it. Such has been the degeneration, the impoverishment of left political culture over the last 25 years, primarily because of the onslaught of an insatiable system that has proved itself more powerful than existing oppositional social movements and alternative political parties, this is indeed <strong>exactly </strong>what we must expect.</p>
<p>It is frightening, but most people don&#8217;t believe, let alone are even saying the juggernaut can or even must be stopped.</p>
<p>And this blog site, therefore, unsurprisingly, is a fitting exemplification of this truth.</p>
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		<title>By: David Jackmanson</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/03/28/lessons-from-political-opponents/#comment-200234</link>
		<dc:creator>David Jackmanson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Mar 2007 08:27:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/03/28/lessons-from-political-opponents/#comment-200234</guid>
		<description>Matt makes a very good point, except that I think Mr Howard has not so much &#039;changed&#039; the electoral landscape, as read it very well.

The short answer is what Anna Winter said at 1.469pm:

&lt;blockquote&gt;In a two-party system, the real solution is more difficult: we have to ensure that more people want to vote for what we want. We have to convince voters, not just candidates. That’s what democracy means.&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matt makes a very good point, except that I think Mr Howard has not so much &#8216;changed&#8217; the electoral landscape, as read it very well.</p>
<p>The short answer is what Anna Winter said at 1.469pm:</p>
<blockquote><p>In a two-party system, the real solution is more difficult: we have to ensure that more people want to vote for what we want. We have to convince voters, not just candidates. That’s what democracy means.</p></blockquote>
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