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	<title>Comments on: Government discovers fairness</title>
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	<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/05/04/government-discovers-fairness/</link>
	<description>Blogging politics, culture, sociology and life from Brisvegas</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 19 Mar 2010 03:41:29 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	
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		<title>By: Frank Calabrese</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/05/04/government-discovers-fairness/comment-page-1/#comment-365512</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank Calabrese</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 May 2007 13:58:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/05/04/government-discovers-fairness/#comment-365512</guid>
		<description>And The Election Bribes keep coming

&lt;blockquote&gt;A MAJOR new push to tackle the nation&#039;s skills crisis by training stay-at-home mums and disabled people will be unveiled in next week&#039;s Federal Budget.

The program, worth at least $250 million over four years, is designed to ensure there are no hurdles in the way of people locked out of employment returning to the workforce. 

The revelation comes amid growing signs Treasurer Peter Costello will announce major tax relief for low and middle income earners in his Budget speech on Tuesday. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

http://www.news.com.au/perthnow/story/0,21598,21673259-949,00.html

There is also expected to be significant spending announcements on roads, schools, health programs and services for war veterans - all funded by a Budget said to be well in surplus</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And The Election Bribes keep coming</p>
<blockquote><p>A MAJOR new push to tackle the nation&#8217;s skills crisis by training stay-at-home mums and disabled people will be unveiled in next week&#8217;s Federal Budget.</p>
<p>The program, worth at least $250 million over four years, is designed to ensure there are no hurdles in the way of people locked out of employment returning to the workforce. </p>
<p>The revelation comes amid growing signs Treasurer Peter Costello will announce major tax relief for low and middle income earners in his Budget speech on Tuesday. </p></blockquote>
<p><a href="http://www.news.com.au/perthnow/story/0,21598,21673259-949,00.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.news.com.au/perthnow/story/0,21598,21673259-949,00.html</a></p>
<p>There is also expected to be significant spending announcements on roads, schools, health programs and services for war veterans &#8211; all funded by a Budget said to be well in surplus</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/05/04/government-discovers-fairness/comment-page-1/#comment-365420</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 May 2007 03:47:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/05/04/government-discovers-fairness/#comment-365420</guid>
		<description>Yes, Graeme, but allowable doesn&#039;t mean compulsory. And I don&#039;t trust the FPC!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, Graeme, but allowable doesn&#8217;t mean compulsory. And I don&#8217;t trust the FPC!</p>
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		<title>By: Graeme</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/05/04/government-discovers-fairness/comment-page-1/#comment-365414</link>
		<dc:creator>Graeme</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 May 2007 02:52:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/05/04/government-discovers-fairness/#comment-365414</guid>
		<description>Mark, penalty rates were retained in the 15 &#039;allowable award matters&#039;: http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/wra1996220/s513.html     

My dim understanding is that the further (and radically incomplete) round of award rationalisation was meant to collapse a lot of industry and other awards into each other.  Presumably in that process some awards could lose aspects of previous penalty rates (eg the actual rate or incidence) but the intention was not to strip them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark, penalty rates were retained in the 15 &#8216;allowable award matters&#8217;: <a href="http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/wra1996220/s513.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/wra1996220/s513.html</a>     </p>
<p>My dim understanding is that the further (and radically incomplete) round of award rationalisation was meant to collapse a lot of industry and other awards into each other.  Presumably in that process some awards could lose aspects of previous penalty rates (eg the actual rate or incidence) but the intention was not to strip them.</p>
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		<title>By: Kapunda</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/05/04/government-discovers-fairness/comment-page-1/#comment-365402</link>
		<dc:creator>Kapunda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 May 2007 00:35:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/05/04/government-discovers-fairness/#comment-365402</guid>
		<description>Ken has hit the nail on the head. Howard needed to be seen as genuine in his attempt to protect peolples pay rates and conditions. Looking at the changes it is clear he is not. 

With the media reports today suggesting Howard has done it more as a way of triggering a government ad campaign, it is hard to see what positives he wil gain from it. The first lot of &quot;workchoices&quot; ads were so successful they pulled them early, so it is hard to say how he can change the perception of his legislation that is probably even more entrenched now than it was it was back then.

I certainly can&#039;t figure his motives out, but with the polls about as bad as they can get for a government in Australia you just wonder where he goes from here. Maybe he is losing his political touch.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ken has hit the nail on the head. Howard needed to be seen as genuine in his attempt to protect peolples pay rates and conditions. Looking at the changes it is clear he is not. </p>
<p>With the media reports today suggesting Howard has done it more as a way of triggering a government ad campaign, it is hard to see what positives he wil gain from it. The first lot of &#8220;workchoices&#8221; ads were so successful they pulled them early, so it is hard to say how he can change the perception of his legislation that is probably even more entrenched now than it was it was back then.</p>
<p>I certainly can&#8217;t figure his motives out, but with the polls about as bad as they can get for a government in Australia you just wonder where he goes from here. Maybe he is losing his political touch.</p>
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		<title>By: steve</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/05/04/government-discovers-fairness/comment-page-1/#comment-365398</link>
		<dc:creator>steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 May 2007 00:07:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/05/04/government-discovers-fairness/#comment-365398</guid>
		<description>Ken, allegedly the envelope where this  plot was hatched was in the Brisbane cabinet meeting last week.  Obviously the polls are starting to influence the anti-midas touch contagion coming from the Government as a whole.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ken, allegedly the envelope where this  plot was hatched was in the Brisbane cabinet meeting last week.  Obviously the polls are starting to influence the anti-midas touch contagion coming from the Government as a whole.</p>
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		<title>By: Ken Lovell</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/05/04/government-discovers-fairness/comment-page-1/#comment-365396</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken Lovell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 May 2007 23:36:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/05/04/government-discovers-fairness/#comment-365396</guid>
		<description></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>The â€śfairness testâ€? is essentially the revival of the no-disadvantage test which applied to AWAs before WorkChoices, and had its origins in Keatingâ€™s IR laws.</p></blockquote>
<p>That was my first reaction too because I couldn&#8217;t believe they&#8217;d be so inept as to acknowledge that WorkChoices was unfair without doing anything sensible to fix it. However as detail emerges it looks like Howard&#8217;s got himself in the worst of all possible worlds and taken the spotlight off Labor&#8217;s IR problems to boot.</p>
<p>More thoughts in my update to <a href="http://www.roadtosurfdom.com/2007/05/04/ir-reform-noooo-thats-the-other-john-howard/#comment-220170" rel="nofollow">this post</a> which you were kind enough to mention.</p>
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		<title>By: steve</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/05/04/government-discovers-fairness/comment-page-1/#comment-365395</link>
		<dc:creator>steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 May 2007 23:30:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/05/04/government-discovers-fairness/#comment-365395</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.theage.com.au/news/opinion/adept-adaptation/2007/05/04/1177788399778.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The Age &lt;/a&gt;seems to sum it up well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.theage.com.au/news/opinion/adept-adaptation/2007/05/04/1177788399778.html" rel="nofollow">The Age </a>seems to sum it up well.</p>
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		<title>By: Anthony</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/05/04/government-discovers-fairness/comment-page-1/#comment-365392</link>
		<dc:creator>Anthony</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 May 2007 22:51:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/05/04/government-discovers-fairness/#comment-365392</guid>
		<description>Mark, my understanding of Howard&#039;s announcement is that awards - whether &#039;streamlined&#039; or not - won&#039;t be the comparator for the fairness test (as they were under the old no disadvantage test.) Rather, the reference is only to what WorkChoices calls &#039;protected award conditions&#039;: mainly penalty rates, shift loadings, leave loadings, public holidays, bonuses. Previously these could be fairly unilaterally taken away by bosses, as long as they explicitly said as much in the AWA. Now they need to be traded away.

So the old no disadvantage test operated by reference to the wide-ranging and complex web of minimum conditions set by the relevant industry award. the new system effectively puts in place instead a two tier baseline: the five minimalist conditions in the Australian Fair Pay and Classification Standard, which can&#039;t be traded away, and a second tier of conditions around things like award entitlements to penalty rates and public holidays etc, which can be traded away, as long as there&#039;s a genuine trade.

The &#039;genuine trade&#039; notion raises the same difficulties we saw with regard to the no disadvantage test. First, it&#039;s hard to tell what&#039;s a genuine trade when comparing apples with oranges: to what extent can, say, higher pay compensate for the loss of conditions which go to a workers control over their job. Secondly, ensuring there&#039;s a genuine trade can be adminsitratively a hard slog, and there was some evidence with the no disadvantage test that the office of the Employment Advocate (in the case of AWAs) and the AIRC (in the case of collective agreements) weren&#039;t always that diligent in making sure agreements met the test</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark, my understanding of Howard&#8217;s announcement is that awards &#8211; whether &#8217;streamlined&#8217; or not &#8211; won&#8217;t be the comparator for the fairness test (as they were under the old no disadvantage test.) Rather, the reference is only to what WorkChoices calls &#8216;protected award conditions&#8217;: mainly penalty rates, shift loadings, leave loadings, public holidays, bonuses. Previously these could be fairly unilaterally taken away by bosses, as long as they explicitly said as much in the AWA. Now they need to be traded away.</p>
<p>So the old no disadvantage test operated by reference to the wide-ranging and complex web of minimum conditions set by the relevant industry award. the new system effectively puts in place instead a two tier baseline: the five minimalist conditions in the Australian Fair Pay and Classification Standard, which can&#8217;t be traded away, and a second tier of conditions around things like award entitlements to penalty rates and public holidays etc, which can be traded away, as long as there&#8217;s a genuine trade.</p>
<p>The &#8216;genuine trade&#8217; notion raises the same difficulties we saw with regard to the no disadvantage test. First, it&#8217;s hard to tell what&#8217;s a genuine trade when comparing apples with oranges: to what extent can, say, higher pay compensate for the loss of conditions which go to a workers control over their job. Secondly, ensuring there&#8217;s a genuine trade can be adminsitratively a hard slog, and there was some evidence with the no disadvantage test that the office of the Employment Advocate (in the case of AWAs) and the AIRC (in the case of collective agreements) weren&#8217;t always that diligent in making sure agreements met the test</p>
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		<title>By: Katz</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/05/04/government-discovers-fairness/comment-page-1/#comment-365390</link>
		<dc:creator>Katz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 May 2007 21:43:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/05/04/government-discovers-fairness/#comment-365390</guid>
		<description>1. The cheque is in the mail.

2. Of course I&#039;ll respect you in the morning.

3. No I won&#039;t come in you mouth.

4. It has to be something reasonable in exchange. Thatâ€™s a fair return.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>1. The cheque is in the mail.</p>
<p>2. Of course I&#8217;ll respect you in the morning.</p>
<p>3. No I won&#8217;t come in you mouth.</p>
<p>4. It has to be something reasonable in exchange. Thatâ€™s a fair return.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/05/04/government-discovers-fairness/comment-page-1/#comment-365365</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 May 2007 14:08:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/05/04/government-discovers-fairness/#comment-365365</guid>
		<description>Good points in the post, Trevor.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good points in the post, Trevor.</p>
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		<title>By: Trevor</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/05/04/government-discovers-fairness/comment-page-1/#comment-365363</link>
		<dc:creator>Trevor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 May 2007 14:04:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/05/04/government-discovers-fairness/#comment-365363</guid>
		<description>This isn&#039;t a backflip, &lt;a href=&quot;http://solidarity.redrag.net/2007/05/04/fairness-test/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;it&#039;s a fig leaf&lt;/a&gt;. The Employment Advocate has already said he isn&#039;t able to make these kinds of comparisons without speaking to the individual employees involved, so what&#039;s going to happen on Monday? Is the OEA (or the Workplace Authority) going to start interviewing every employee on every AWA lodged? It&#039;s a joke --- and that&#039;s before you even get to the loopholes Howard has built in.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This isn&#8217;t a backflip, <a href="http://solidarity.redrag.net/2007/05/04/fairness-test/" rel="nofollow">it&#8217;s a fig leaf</a>. The Employment Advocate has already said he isn&#8217;t able to make these kinds of comparisons without speaking to the individual employees involved, so what&#8217;s going to happen on Monday? Is the OEA (or the Workplace Authority) going to start interviewing every employee on every AWA lodged? It&#8217;s a joke &#8212; and that&#8217;s before you even get to the loopholes Howard has built in.</p>
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		<title>By: David Jackmanson</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/05/04/government-discovers-fairness/comment-page-1/#comment-365357</link>
		<dc:creator>David Jackmanson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 May 2007 13:26:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/05/04/government-discovers-fairness/#comment-365357</guid>
		<description>spaminated</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>spaminated</p>
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		<title>By: David Jackmanson</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/05/04/government-discovers-fairness/comment-page-1/#comment-365356</link>
		<dc:creator>David Jackmanson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 May 2007 13:25:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/05/04/government-discovers-fairness/#comment-365356</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200705/s1914526.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Workers will now have to be &quot;fairly and adequately&quot; compensated by employers if they trade away penalty rates, shift allowances or other entitlements in signing up to an AWA.&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&quot;Prime Minister, I refer you to your statement that workers will now have to be &#039;fairly and adequately&quot; compensated for rights that are traded away.

Don&#039;t your words prove that, up till now, workers have not been &#039;fairly and adequately&#039; compensated under your unfair WorkChoices policy?&quot;

Rinse and repeat until the election.

Not that I think the ALP will be much better at all for workers, (right to strike - who needs it?) but Mr Howard has made a very dangerous decision indeed. I&#039;m still very happy about my $130 on Mr Rudd to win - at $1.80.

BTW, the Oz is largely irrelevant to the election. Watch the mass-circulation tabloids to work out who Mr Murdoch is backing. The Oz is merely playing to its right-wing audience.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p><a href="http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200705/s1914526.htm" rel="nofollow">Workers will now have to be &#8220;fairly and adequately&#8221; compensated by employers if they trade away penalty rates, shift allowances or other entitlements in signing up to an AWA.</a></p></blockquote>
<p>&#8220;Prime Minister, I refer you to your statement that workers will now have to be &#8216;fairly and adequately&#8221; compensated for rights that are traded away.</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t your words prove that, up till now, workers have not been &#8216;fairly and adequately&#8217; compensated under your unfair WorkChoices policy?&#8221;</p>
<p>Rinse and repeat until the election.</p>
<p>Not that I think the ALP will be much better at all for workers, (right to strike &#8211; who needs it?) but Mr Howard has made a very dangerous decision indeed. I&#8217;m still very happy about my $130 on Mr Rudd to win &#8211; at $1.80.</p>
<p>BTW, the Oz is largely irrelevant to the election. Watch the mass-circulation tabloids to work out who Mr Murdoch is backing. The Oz is merely playing to its right-wing audience.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/05/04/government-discovers-fairness/comment-page-1/#comment-365355</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 May 2007 13:23:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/05/04/government-discovers-fairness/#comment-365355</guid>
		<description>Ken L nails them on that point at Surfdom:

http://www.roadtosurfdom.com/2007/05/04/ir-reform-noooo-thats-the-other-john-howard/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ken L nails them on that point at Surfdom:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.roadtosurfdom.com/2007/05/04/ir-reform-noooo-thats-the-other-john-howard/" rel="nofollow">http://www.roadtosurfdom.com/2007/05/04/ir-reform-noooo-thats-the-other-john-howard/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/05/04/government-discovers-fairness/comment-page-1/#comment-365354</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 May 2007 13:21:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/05/04/government-discovers-fairness/#comment-365354</guid>
		<description>The real question to be answered here is what is the baseline for comparison, as a number of commenters have noted. With the pre-WorkChoices AWAs it was the award. However, and I&#039;ll check this over the weekend, but my recollection is pretty clear that awards are being &quot;streamlined&quot; into 15 industry awards by the &quot;Fair Pay Commission&quot; and in the meantime the AIRC has no power any more to update them. If, like the no disadvantage test, this would be applied against awards, has the government instructed the FPC to maintain penalty rates and overtime in awards? If not, then the guarantee, if that&#039;s the comparator, is useless. Because penalty rates aren&#039;t in the legislated minima, the only possible entitlement to them that could lead to them existing at all to be traded off for something &quot;fair&quot; is their presence in an award.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The real question to be answered here is what is the baseline for comparison, as a number of commenters have noted. With the pre-WorkChoices AWAs it was the award. However, and I&#8217;ll check this over the weekend, but my recollection is pretty clear that awards are being &#8220;streamlined&#8221; into 15 industry awards by the &#8220;Fair Pay Commission&#8221; and in the meantime the AIRC has no power any more to update them. If, like the no disadvantage test, this would be applied against awards, has the government instructed the FPC to maintain penalty rates and overtime in awards? If not, then the guarantee, if that&#8217;s the comparator, is useless. Because penalty rates aren&#8217;t in the legislated minima, the only possible entitlement to them that could lead to them existing at all to be traded off for something &#8220;fair&#8221; is their presence in an award.</p>
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		<title>By: Graeme</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/05/04/government-discovers-fairness/comment-page-1/#comment-365352</link>
		<dc:creator>Graeme</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 May 2007 13:15:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/05/04/government-discovers-fairness/#comment-365352</guid>
		<description>Gareth is half-right.  AWAs are not about flexibility but de-unionisation.  That&#039;s inherent in their legal structure and a core motivation in their use by larger businesses and bureaucracies.

I&#039;m astonished at the amateurism of Howard&#039;s announcement.  Business get ONE working day&#039;s notice that AWAs about to be signed - but also those ALREADY signed but in the mail to the registry office - will have to be re-written.     Then, he is unable to explain what the new test is, other than a vague &#039;fairness&#039; thing.    Apparently, you can lose penalty rates for working anti-social hours, and be compensated by ... flexible, &#039;family friendly&#039; hours!

Desperate political tactics.  But this is not just policy on the run, it is LAW on the run.  And what is Parliament&#039;s role in all this??</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gareth is half-right.  AWAs are not about flexibility but de-unionisation.  That&#8217;s inherent in their legal structure and a core motivation in their use by larger businesses and bureaucracies.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m astonished at the amateurism of Howard&#8217;s announcement.  Business get ONE working day&#8217;s notice that AWAs about to be signed &#8211; but also those ALREADY signed but in the mail to the registry office &#8211; will have to be re-written.     Then, he is unable to explain what the new test is, other than a vague &#8216;fairness&#8217; thing.    Apparently, you can lose penalty rates for working anti-social hours, and be compensated by &#8230; flexible, &#8216;family friendly&#8217; hours!</p>
<p>Desperate political tactics.  But this is not just policy on the run, it is LAW on the run.  And what is Parliament&#8217;s role in all this??</p>
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		<title>By: steve</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/05/04/government-discovers-fairness/comment-page-1/#comment-365344</link>
		<dc:creator>steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 May 2007 12:16:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/05/04/government-discovers-fairness/#comment-365344</guid>
		<description>See the interesting line being run at&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.roadtosurfdom.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; Road to Surfdom&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>See the interesting line being run at<a href="http://www.roadtosurfdom.com/" rel="nofollow"> Road to Surfdom</a></p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/05/04/government-discovers-fairness/comment-page-1/#comment-365343</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 May 2007 12:11:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/05/04/government-discovers-fairness/#comment-365343</guid>
		<description>&quot;I mean HOW hysterical has the Oz etc beenâ€¦ its unprecedented..is it ?&quot;

Not at all. Every time there has been a major development in the IR debate we have had to put up with at least a week of tooth-gnashing and lunacy from the Oz.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I mean HOW hysterical has the Oz etc beenâ€¦ its unprecedented..is it ?&#8221;</p>
<p>Not at all. Every time there has been a major development in the IR debate we have had to put up with at least a week of tooth-gnashing and lunacy from the Oz.</p>
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		<title>By: Lefty E</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/05/04/government-discovers-fairness/comment-page-1/#comment-365342</link>
		<dc:creator>Lefty E</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 May 2007 12:11:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/05/04/government-discovers-fairness/#comment-365342</guid>
		<description>Well said CK. Gareth, you&#039;ll find the current legal situation under workchoices means that even if 99% of the employees wanted to collectively bargain, they couldnt if the boss said no.

I think you&#039;ll agree - thats outrageous.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well said CK. Gareth, you&#8217;ll find the current legal situation under workchoices means that even if 99% of the employees wanted to collectively bargain, they couldnt if the boss said no.</p>
<p>I think you&#8217;ll agree &#8211; thats outrageous.</p>
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		<title>By: Christine Keeler</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/05/04/government-discovers-fairness/comment-page-1/#comment-365337</link>
		<dc:creator>Christine Keeler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 May 2007 11:52:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/05/04/government-discovers-fairness/#comment-365337</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Instead, by returning to the collective bargaining mantra, all Gillard has managed to do is convince already suspicious employers that the Labor changes are really about reinserting unions into the bargaining equation&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Sorry Gareth, but fuck you. Why shouldn&#039;t Australian unionists in workplaces where they are a majority have the same or similar collective bargaining rights as their counterparts in the US or Canada?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Instead, by returning to the collective bargaining mantra, all Gillard has managed to do is convince already suspicious employers that the Labor changes are really about reinserting unions into the bargaining equation</p></blockquote>
<p>Sorry Gareth, but fuck you. Why shouldn&#8217;t Australian unionists in workplaces where they are a majority have the same or similar collective bargaining rights as their counterparts in the US or Canada?</p>
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