Re Janabi i have already indicated that my understanding of the case was flawed - i haven’t had time to trace back to a few months ago when i was reading something about the case that indicated the conclusion i reached that it was a beat up - however i intend to do so and if necessary will correct any mistaken perspectives there may have been on it.

BTW at the end of the second paragraph there is a sentence somehow cut off - it ought to have read… but you ought to go further and oppose them because otherwise your anti-liberation sentiments result in a policy position that is used by the enemy.

How is anything that you’ve just said on the Janabi case consistent with your earlier declaration that “The Janabi case is a beat up that does not withstand scrutiny?”

Gurgle, gurgle.

Your original opposition to the war in Iraq is now irrelevant; the current enemies bomb people in exactly the same manner that you have always opposed and that led to your support for the war that was launched against the Taliban and al Qaeda in Afghanistan. The enemies have no just cause for their abominable actions, and neither you nor anyone else posting at LP support them; but you ought to go further and oppose them because otherwise your anti-liberation sentiments result in a policy position that is
Of course people want the war to end, as our parent’s and grand-parent’s wanted ww2 to end, but we are not in this war to lose and despite all the doom and gloom in the media - the Iraqi people are defeating their enemies, and they are benefiting from the support of the coalition troops. When the Coalition does leave, Iraq will have become a massive force for region change and it’s not just Iraq that is at stake though that would be sufficient.

Once the free and fair elections in Iraq cleared up all the earlier nonsense about Vietnam or oil etc the moral high ground that people thought they had folded up under them. The elections proved that this war was the exact opposite policy that the U.S. and Australia had followed in Vietnam. The blatant U.S. imperialism in the Vietnam era saw a policy of preventing free and fair elections. Australian leftists, some involved at Lastsuperpower correctly wanted the defeat of our own troops. No leftist wants the enemy in Iraq to win. (Or won’t admit it if they do)

The key to understanding what policies progressives ought to be pursuing right now is to be found in doing what Gummo Trotsky has started to do by quoting a compiled list of the forces involved. But he fails to analyze that list and determine ‘who are our friends and who are our enemies’.

It is necessary to go through the list of the forces that are struggling for power and then take a side based on their policies and track record. It can and ought be done; we are not obliged to throw up our hands and make the demonstrably false claim that they are all as bad as each other, or that it is all too complicated.

The masses in Australia, Britain and the U.S. while currently not having a good grasp of the issues in this war, are not trying to justify their position for political (electoral) purposes. They don’t care about the troops out because they know the war will not end if western troops are withdrawn; they just want their troops out of harms way. So your formulation about them wanting the war to end is wrong. The masses following the line of their right-wing ruling class are just sick of the war.

IMV the masses are at the point where they hate the enemies that are blowing up Iraqi people day after day, as these enemies did on 9/11. That attack convinced you that war (in Afghanistan) was the correct reply. These current attacks deserve the same reply so numbers of people who attend ‘Peace rally’s’ etc are falling in the face of such repulsive enemy conduct.

You think that the people are champing at the bit to elect Rudd, on a troops-out-now policy; we shall see. The first in line for wanting to see our involvement in this war end are the forces who are bombing universities, market places etc and disrupting the democratic and economic processes in Iraq. The enemies are in favor of Rudd’s policy.

The representatives of the Iraqi masses that now constitute the Iraqi government are literally pleading (as we speak) with our political leaders to stay and continue to do the good work that they are doing despite all the risks. This post insults their efforts and spreads confusion. Telling them to stay out of our internal politics is ridiculous. The policy concerns the Iraqi people directly and these leaders are duty bound to let us know their views.

Gummo, IMV you can’t uphold the position that this is not about troop behaviour and still stress these kind of issues: but with regard to misbehaviour before the enemy - writers at Lastsuperpower have always stressed the need for this war to be fought under the international rules of engagement and for accountability measures being enforced against any criminal behaviour.
http://www.lastsuperpower.net/docs/al-torture1

I haven’t followed the Janabi case and I’ve found that further googling does support the link you originally made as being in relation to the Janabi case but it certainly was not obvious. But with all due respect to the girl’s remaining family this is largely irrelevant because the perpetrators were caught and punished and so we have to get back to the question of policy. Is there any suggestion by members at this site that the Janabi murders were a matter of carrying out orders? In actual fact this case harms the war effort and it is not in the interests of CoW countries and so why would they have ordered these kind of atrocities?

These actions harm the war effort as even the perpetrator admits! This behaviour goes against the interests of the ruling elite that sent the troops. They are also against the interests of the left that supports the liberation of the Iraqi People and this is so serious that shooting the offenders is in order. Is that strong enough action as far as you are concerned? Maybe his psychiatric disorder has mitigated against the imposition of the death sentence. It is certainly appropriate to respond to such behaviour with the strongest possible measures that sends a very clear message it won’t be tolerated.

Kim you are so slippery …

Priceless, coming from you, Odiously Yours.

Steven D (for Dale) Green was one of the US Soldiers accused in the Janabi case. Another, James P Barker, pleaded guilty to charges relating to his involvement in the case last November, according to this CTV report.

You’ve still got a little wiggle room though - although a Google search for “Abeer Qassim al-Janabi” turned up that report, she doesn’t seem to be mentioned by name there. Feel free to use that little omission to your best advantage, as you perceive it. It’s your credibility that’s going to go down the gurgler.

He might be better occupied trying to stop the Iraqi Parliament passing a resolution calling for foreign troops to leave the country, if that’s what he believes.

BTW I’d rather be on the side of George Bush in this war than you guys being on the side of George Galloway

Sorry, there are a lot of people who aren’t George Galloway who’d like to see the Iraq War end. A majority of people in the UK, this country and the US, for a start.

BTW I’d rather be on the side of George Bush in this war than you guys being on the side of George Galloway. Ohh - what do you say to the Iraqi on Lateline last night clearly asking the PM and Rudd not to abandon them to the anti-democratic forces of fascism in their country? Go to hell and back and then back again?

It is a case of the mentally ill snapping but the story is about how that personality disorder was picked up and the person involved was discharged before the rape and murder that he had committed had come to light. It is obviously a very strange and regrettable incident but that incident is conflated to behaviour as usual when clearly it is not.

STOP ATTACKING THE TROOPS!

The point of the quote, as should be obvious, is not to reflect on the behaviour of the troops (though that might make for an interesting post) but to refer to the situation generally in that shining example of “democracy”, Iraq.

The Janabi case is a beat up that does not withstand scrutiny.

Some beat-up - it even fooled US law enforcement agencies.

If your feminism is the kind that labels Australian troops as being barbaric and interested in rape and pillage like the Roman imperialists then you are definitely not talking to the majority of Australian women, or to the mother’s of soldiers, and you are not supporting the Australian troops.

You say you are not a pacifist and that you support the action in Afghanistan but what is the difference between the policy there and in Iraq as actually carried out by the dishonourable criminals

‘Looting, killing and raping - by twisting their words they call it ‘empire’; and wherever they have created a wilderness, they call it ‘peace’.

Instead of looking at the reality you have argued in emotionally laden terms that seeks to criminalise all troops rather than critically assess the performance and shortcomings of the Australian troops who are putting their life on the line for democracy in a foreign country, and where only a miniscule proportion go outside of their orders to commit criminal acts. And when they do are sought out and punished.

The Janabi case is a beat up that does not withstand scrutiny.
Wake up and smell the coffee Kim

It is also utterly foolish to think that the CoW has any power to alter the position of women in a patriachal Islamic society in the midst of a war.

Well once the WMD rationale collapsed, delivering a modern, secular, tolerant and inclusive ME beacon of light did become the next raison d’être du jour.

I look forward to LP’s posts on the status of women in North Korea, Burma, Somalia and Sudan the near future.

Well I’m off to wikipedia to enter that as a classic example of another definition of “concern troll”.

I note too Mel that you have never expressed any concern over how the Ainu have been treated. I take it then you’re in favour of a revival of the Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere, you Nipponese racial supremacist supporter you.

The more I see of you online Mel, the more I think you stand for nothing except trying to stand on others in order to feel taller yourself.

It is also utterly foolish to think that the CoW has any power to alter the position of women in a patriachal Islamic society in the midst of a war.

And on the lefty black armband theme I’ve been hammering lately, I look forward to LP’s posts on the status of women in North Korea, Burma, Somalia and Sudan the near future.