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	<title>Comments on: The Russian gambit</title>
	<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/05/18/the-russian-gambit/</link>
	<description>Blogging politics, culture, sociology and life from Brisvegas</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jan 2009 20:15:37 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.3</generator>
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		<title>By: Hal9000 V.2</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/05/18/the-russian-gambit/#comment-369249</link>
		<dc:creator>Hal9000 V.2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 May 2007 12:41:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/05/18/the-russian-gambit/#comment-369249</guid>
		<description>Unlike the previous iteration above, we are now all, by any practical definition of the words, foolproof and incapable of errorr.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Unlike the previous iteration above, we are now all, by any practical definition of the words, foolproof and incapable of errorr.</p>
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		<title>By: Hal9000</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/05/18/the-russian-gambit/#comment-369084</link>
		<dc:creator>Hal9000</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 May 2007 05:10:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/05/18/the-russian-gambit/#comment-369084</guid>
		<description>I'm sorry, Dave.  I can't do that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m sorry, Dave.  I can&#8217;t do that.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/05/18/the-russian-gambit/#comment-368820</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 May 2007 13:17:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/05/18/the-russian-gambit/#comment-368820</guid>
		<description>Open the pod-bay door, Hal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Open the pod-bay door, Hal.</p>
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		<title>By: Graham Bell</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/05/18/the-russian-gambit/#comment-368811</link>
		<dc:creator>Graham Bell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 May 2007 13:00:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/05/18/the-russian-gambit/#comment-368811</guid>
		<description>Ken Scott:
Very interesting and plausible concepts there;  I have no way of checking them but thanks all the same.

Just because five fascists regimes sent their troops into the Soviet Union 66 years ago, it doesn't mean that the Russian leadership today would distain studying fascist systems of government and selecting what was useful for them out of that.

Katz:
Sadly, you are right about Estonia ...... in Heaven's name, why did they do it????</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ken Scott:<br />
Very interesting and plausible concepts there;  I have no way of checking them but thanks all the same.</p>
<p>Just because five fascists regimes sent their troops into the Soviet Union 66 years ago, it doesn&#8217;t mean that the Russian leadership today would distain studying fascist systems of government and selecting what was useful for them out of that.</p>
<p>Katz:<br />
Sadly, you are right about Estonia &#8230;&#8230; in Heaven&#8217;s name, why did they do it????</p>
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		<title>By: Hal9000</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/05/18/the-russian-gambit/#comment-368801</link>
		<dc:creator>Hal9000</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 May 2007 12:42:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/05/18/the-russian-gambit/#comment-368801</guid>
		<description>No worries, EC.  Meanwhile I've done some more digging among the memory banks on the bronze soldier of Tallinn.  It seems he was erected over a mass grave of Red Army lads killed in the fighting for the Baltic coast in '44.  And he's been moved (along with the exhumed bones of the Soviet soldiery) to a cemetery where the Wehrmacht defenders are also interred.  So there really does appear to be a conscious desecration involved here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No worries, EC.  Meanwhile I&#8217;ve done some more digging among the memory banks on the bronze soldier of Tallinn.  It seems he was erected over a mass grave of Red Army lads killed in the fighting for the Baltic coast in &#8216;44.  And he&#8217;s been moved (along with the exhumed bones of the Soviet soldiery) to a cemetery where the Wehrmacht defenders are also interred.  So there really does appear to be a conscious desecration involved here.</p>
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		<title>By: Enemy Combatant</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/05/18/the-russian-gambit/#comment-368550</link>
		<dc:creator>Enemy Combatant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 May 2007 02:24:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/05/18/the-russian-gambit/#comment-368550</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Hal.  Nothing at all gets by the 9000 series. Your model is so alert.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Hal.  Nothing at all gets by the 9000 series. Your model is so alert.</p>
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		<title>By: Katz</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/05/18/the-russian-gambit/#comment-368536</link>
		<dc:creator>Katz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 May 2007 01:33:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/05/18/the-russian-gambit/#comment-368536</guid>
		<description>But Robert, as much as I empathise with the legitimate outrage of Estonians at their treatment by the Soviets, the world need not feel particularly perturbed by angry Estonians. Angry Russians, on the other hand, demand attention.

And the Estonian government, by sticking its thumb in the Russian eye, has made Russia angry.

Was this provocation necessary? I don't know enough about Estonian politics to argue for or against the proposition that a government in trouble needed a galvanising event to stir up Estonian nationalism. Moreover, I don't know whether and to what extent the EC were party to this decision, seeing it as a convenient time and place to shoot a cannon across the bow of Putin's Russia.

Was anything gained by this gesture? Is it likely that anything will be gained by this gesture?

Does Estonia want to be the venue for a proxy war between Russia and the EC?

Does Estonia know what to do with its large Russian population? It's a cinch they won't be leaving Estonia any time soon.

Anger and outrage are useful only if you are willing and able to make good on the threats and promises provoked by them.

Neither Estonia nor the EC fit that bill in relation to Russia.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But Robert, as much as I empathise with the legitimate outrage of Estonians at their treatment by the Soviets, the world need not feel particularly perturbed by angry Estonians. Angry Russians, on the other hand, demand attention.</p>
<p>And the Estonian government, by sticking its thumb in the Russian eye, has made Russia angry.</p>
<p>Was this provocation necessary? I don&#8217;t know enough about Estonian politics to argue for or against the proposition that a government in trouble needed a galvanising event to stir up Estonian nationalism. Moreover, I don&#8217;t know whether and to what extent the EC were party to this decision, seeing it as a convenient time and place to shoot a cannon across the bow of Putin&#8217;s Russia.</p>
<p>Was anything gained by this gesture? Is it likely that anything will be gained by this gesture?</p>
<p>Does Estonia want to be the venue for a proxy war between Russia and the EC?</p>
<p>Does Estonia know what to do with its large Russian population? It&#8217;s a cinch they won&#8217;t be leaving Estonia any time soon.</p>
<p>Anger and outrage are useful only if you are willing and able to make good on the threats and promises provoked by them.</p>
<p>Neither Estonia nor the EC fit that bill in relation to Russia.</p>
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		<title>By: Ken Scott</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/05/18/the-russian-gambit/#comment-368529</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 May 2007 01:17:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/05/18/the-russian-gambit/#comment-368529</guid>
		<description>Graham Bell: I am almost tempted by the following conspiracy theory. Andropov saw that thr rusting system as it then was, was unsustainable in the long run. He got onto the idea of keeping Stalinism but without the Marxist-Leninist ideological leg-iron. He knew he'd have a problem with the Suslovites et. al. so he hatched a plan on the authoritarian model devised by Lenin and Dherzinsky, whereby the security apparatus would maintain order while the system was changed along state fascism lines, with a few hand picked private industrialists, while all the while giving the appearance of a new new economic policy. It is not an unworkable idea, look at China today. Dying from kidney and liver disease, he anointed Gorby to effect the changeover. But Gorby was a naif and fukked it up. There was an attempted coup by the Suslovites and then Boris Yeltsin got into the act, seizing his opportunity. It took some time for the Chekists to regain control and put Russia back on the Andropov plan. And, it is working. Whether Putin remains president or not, that is not the question, I am not saying he is irrelvant but there is a bigger plan underneath it all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Graham Bell: I am almost tempted by the following conspiracy theory. Andropov saw that thr rusting system as it then was, was unsustainable in the long run. He got onto the idea of keeping Stalinism but without the Marxist-Leninist ideological leg-iron. He knew he&#8217;d have a problem with the Suslovites et. al. so he hatched a plan on the authoritarian model devised by Lenin and Dherzinsky, whereby the security apparatus would maintain order while the system was changed along state fascism lines, with a few hand picked private industrialists, while all the while giving the appearance of a new new economic policy. It is not an unworkable idea, look at China today. Dying from kidney and liver disease, he anointed Gorby to effect the changeover. But Gorby was a naif and fukked it up. There was an attempted coup by the Suslovites and then Boris Yeltsin got into the act, seizing his opportunity. It took some time for the Chekists to regain control and put Russia back on the Andropov plan. And, it is working. Whether Putin remains president or not, that is not the question, I am not saying he is irrelvant but there is a bigger plan underneath it all.</p>
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		<title>By: Hal9000</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/05/18/the-russian-gambit/#comment-368495</link>
		<dc:creator>Hal9000</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 May 2007 23:32:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/05/18/the-russian-gambit/#comment-368495</guid>
		<description>Enemy Combatant - I think you'll find Fischer's defeated Russian opponent was Boris Spassky and not Kasparaov.  Kasparaov was the youngest ever world chess champion when he beat fellow Russian Anatoly Karpov in 1985 in circumstances of some controversy (Karpov did not lose, he retired exhausted).  Kasparov was then undefeated champion of the chess world until he formed a splinter chess organisation ten years later.  For the chess-obsessed Russians, Kasparov has the same cachet (along with some of the same ill-will) that Muhammed Ali has for the boxing-obsessed Americans.  That said, I agree with Katz's view that politically he's a lightweight (pun intended).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Enemy Combatant - I think you&#8217;ll find Fischer&#8217;s defeated Russian opponent was Boris Spassky and not Kasparaov.  Kasparaov was the youngest ever world chess champion when he beat fellow Russian Anatoly Karpov in 1985 in circumstances of some controversy (Karpov did not lose, he retired exhausted).  Kasparov was then undefeated champion of the chess world until he formed a splinter chess organisation ten years later.  For the chess-obsessed Russians, Kasparov has the same cachet (along with some of the same ill-will) that Muhammed Ali has for the boxing-obsessed Americans.  That said, I agree with Katz&#8217;s view that politically he&#8217;s a lightweight (pun intended).</p>
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		<title>By: Graham Bell</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/05/18/the-russian-gambit/#comment-368460</link>
		<dc:creator>Graham Bell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 May 2007 21:32:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/05/18/the-russian-gambit/#comment-368460</guid>
		<description>Ken Scott, you said 
&lt;blockquote&gt;Whatâ€™s the difference between totalitarian and â€œpopulist authoritarianâ€?? Just take out the ideology.&lt;/blockquote&gt; 
which is why I disagree with Dave Bath calling Putin a neoStalinist; a different description might be more appropriate..   

Wonder if Vladimir Putin will take a leaf out of Lee Kwan-yu's book and stay on as Senior Minister after stepping down from power.  After all, his experience and insights and advice would be available immediately to the incoming President ......</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ken Scott, you said </p>
<blockquote><p>Whatâ€™s the difference between totalitarian and â€œpopulist authoritarianâ€?? Just take out the ideology.</p></blockquote>
<p>which is why I disagree with Dave Bath calling Putin a neoStalinist; a different description might be more appropriate..   </p>
<p>Wonder if Vladimir Putin will take a leaf out of Lee Kwan-yu&#8217;s book and stay on as Senior Minister after stepping down from power.  After all, his experience and insights and advice would be available immediately to the incoming President &#8230;&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Bath</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/05/18/the-russian-gambit/#comment-368327</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Bath</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 May 2007 10:34:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/05/18/the-russian-gambit/#comment-368327</guid>
		<description>The recent cyberattack escalating from hitting just the Estonian government to the Swedish-owned bank is interesting, and is certainly looking for trouble with the EU community.  Dumb move in my opinion, but in line with Putin's neoStalinist aggression.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The recent cyberattack escalating from hitting just the Estonian government to the Swedish-owned bank is interesting, and is certainly looking for trouble with the EU community.  Dumb move in my opinion, but in line with Putin&#8217;s neoStalinist aggression.</p>
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		<title>By: Ken Scott</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/05/18/the-russian-gambit/#comment-368319</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 May 2007 10:18:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/05/18/the-russian-gambit/#comment-368319</guid>
		<description>Shouldn't you be posting this at On the Road to Serfdom?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shouldn&#8217;t you be posting this at On the Road to Serfdom?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Nikolai Gogol</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/05/18/the-russian-gambit/#comment-368293</link>
		<dc:creator>Nikolai Gogol</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 May 2007 09:03:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/05/18/the-russian-gambit/#comment-368293</guid>
		<description>Nevertheless events did not turn out as Chichikov had intended they should.  In the first place, he overslept himself.  In the second place, on his rising and inquiring whether the britchka had been harnessed and everything got ready, he was informed that neither of those two things had been done...

â€œPaul Ivanovitch,â€? Selifan said, â€œthe horses require shoeing.â€?

â€œBlockhead!â€? exclaimed Chichikov. â€œWhy did you not tell me of that before, you damned fool?  Was there not time enough for them to be shod?â€?

â€œYes, I suppose there was,â€? agreed Selifan. â€œAlso, one of the wheels is in want of a new tyre.  Also, the body of the britchka is so rickety that probably it will not last more than a couple of stages.â€?

â€œRascal!â€? shouted Chichikov, clenching his fists. â€œFor these three weeks past you have been doing nothing at all; yet now, at the last moment, you come here stammering and playing the fool!  You must have known of this before? Did you, or did you not, know it? Answer me at once.â€?

â€œYes, I did know it,â€? replied Selifan, hanging his head.

â€œThen why didnâ€™t you tell me about it?â€?

Selifan had no reply immediately ready, so continued to hang his head while quietly saying to himself: â€œSee how well I have managed things! I knew what was the matter, yet I did not say.â€?

...

And you, Russia of mineâ€”are not you also speeding like a troika which nought can overtake? ...
Whither, then, are you speeding, O Russia of mine? Whither? Answer me! But no answer comesâ€”only the weird sound of your collar-bells.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nevertheless events did not turn out as Chichikov had intended they should.  In the first place, he overslept himself.  In the second place, on his rising and inquiring whether the britchka had been harnessed and everything got ready, he was informed that neither of those two things had been done&#8230;</p>
<p>â€œPaul Ivanovitch,â€? Selifan said, â€œthe horses require shoeing.â€?</p>
<p>â€œBlockhead!â€? exclaimed Chichikov. â€œWhy did you not tell me of that before, you damned fool?  Was there not time enough for them to be shod?â€?</p>
<p>â€œYes, I suppose there was,â€? agreed Selifan. â€œAlso, one of the wheels is in want of a new tyre.  Also, the body of the britchka is so rickety that probably it will not last more than a couple of stages.â€?</p>
<p>â€œRascal!â€? shouted Chichikov, clenching his fists. â€œFor these three weeks past you have been doing nothing at all; yet now, at the last moment, you come here stammering and playing the fool!  You must have known of this before? Did you, or did you not, know it? Answer me at once.â€?</p>
<p>â€œYes, I did know it,â€? replied Selifan, hanging his head.</p>
<p>â€œThen why didnâ€™t you tell me about it?â€?</p>
<p>Selifan had no reply immediately ready, so continued to hang his head while quietly saying to himself: â€œSee how well I have managed things! I knew what was the matter, yet I did not say.â€?</p>
<p>&#8230;</p>
<p>And you, Russia of mineâ€”are not you also speeding like a troika which nought can overtake? &#8230;<br />
Whither, then, are you speeding, O Russia of mine? Whither? Answer me! But no answer comesâ€”only the weird sound of your collar-bells.</p>
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		<title>By: Enemy Combatant</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/05/18/the-russian-gambit/#comment-368291</link>
		<dc:creator>Enemy Combatant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 May 2007 08:55:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/05/18/the-russian-gambit/#comment-368291</guid>
		<description>"I do not think Bobby F is completely crackers at all.  Apart from his rabid antisemitism he has occasionally come with a fairly spot-on insight"

Just so, Sir Henry. 
While Mr. Fischer behaves in a manner that observers have interpreted as being "just a little bit different", this does not preclude him from "occasionally coming up with a fairly spot-on insight".  From barber shops to think-tanks, humanity writ large comes up with fairly spot-on insights all the time. 

Sometimes the Eureka moment is a light bulb, on others a tom-thumb, or even a  double-happy.  But every now and then some genius goes off like a three-penny bunger.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I do not think Bobby F is completely crackers at all.  Apart from his rabid antisemitism he has occasionally come with a fairly spot-on insight&#8221;</p>
<p>Just so, Sir Henry.<br />
While Mr. Fischer behaves in a manner that observers have interpreted as being &#8220;just a little bit different&#8221;, this does not preclude him from &#8220;occasionally coming up with a fairly spot-on insight&#8221;.  From barber shops to think-tanks, humanity writ large comes up with fairly spot-on insights all the time. </p>
<p>Sometimes the Eureka moment is a light bulb, on others a tom-thumb, or even a  double-happy.  But every now and then some genius goes off like a three-penny bunger.</p>
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		<title>By: Ken Scott</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/05/18/the-russian-gambit/#comment-368265</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 May 2007 07:33:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/05/18/the-russian-gambit/#comment-368265</guid>
		<description>What's the difference between totalitarian and "populist authoritarian"? Just take out the ideology. The country is now being run by Chekists without the "moderating" influence of the politburo.

Granted, the GULAG organisation is no more. But on the other hand, like an old lag, the Russians, like a lifer out on parole, have been thoroughly  insititutionalised. Anyway, GULAG was on its way out by the time Andropov rolled around. Even Beria released a few million after Uncle Joe's demise.

I am not so sanguine about civil rights in Russia, about which Katz gets lyrical towards his rather cogent piece. I can't see Chekists relinquishing power any time soon, particularly as they never let go of it in the first place: see Litvinenko and Felshtinksy, "Blowing up Russia - The Secret Plot to bring back KGB terror".</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What&#8217;s the difference between totalitarian and &#8220;populist authoritarian&#8221;? Just take out the ideology. The country is now being run by Chekists without the &#8220;moderating&#8221; influence of the politburo.</p>
<p>Granted, the GULAG organisation is no more. But on the other hand, like an old lag, the Russians, like a lifer out on parole, have been thoroughly  insititutionalised. Anyway, GULAG was on its way out by the time Andropov rolled around. Even Beria released a few million after Uncle Joe&#8217;s demise.</p>
<p>I am not so sanguine about civil rights in Russia, about which Katz gets lyrical towards his rather cogent piece. I can&#8217;t see Chekists relinquishing power any time soon, particularly as they never let go of it in the first place: see Litvinenko and Felshtinksy, &#8220;Blowing up Russia - The Secret Plot to bring back KGB terror&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Graham Bell</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/05/18/the-russian-gambit/#comment-368255</link>
		<dc:creator>Graham Bell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 May 2007 07:06:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/05/18/the-russian-gambit/#comment-368255</guid>
		<description>Robert Merkel:
Thank for this timely post.
You asked &#62;how should a cashed-up but increasingly totalitarian Russia be handled?
For a start .....with a great deal of respect!!!

Katz:
Spot on.

al loomi:
The US putting missiles in eastern Europe is deliberately [and stupidly] provocative.   If Iran was the main worry then such missiles could be placed on Diego Garcia or a few dozen other very suitable sites around the region.    Have to agree with EnemyCombatant about the US [its upper echelons, not the majority of its ordinary people]; the last 7 years have shown the regime is no longer Christian but AntiChrist.. 

Everyone:
1.. Never never never underestimate the power of Russian national spirit.
2.. The West, including Germany, lost a golden opportunity to bring in an era of unprecendented peace and prosperity by full-on co-operation with the Russians while Gorbachev was still in power.  Instead, we pandered to a tiny bunch of spiteful sore-losers and ratbags in New York and Washington.  All that did was to turn potential friends into potential enemies .... quite apart from it helping the Russian kleptocracy plunder the country and handing Russia to China on a plate. 
3.. Of course Kosovo is important.  Russians do give a damn what happens to their Serbian brothers and sisters .... and any Serbians I have met felt  likewise about the Russians.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Robert Merkel:<br />
Thank for this timely post.<br />
You asked &gt;how should a cashed-up but increasingly totalitarian Russia be handled?<br />
For a start &#8230;..with a great deal of respect!!!</p>
<p>Katz:<br />
Spot on.</p>
<p>al loomi:<br />
The US putting missiles in eastern Europe is deliberately [and stupidly] provocative.   If Iran was the main worry then such missiles could be placed on Diego Garcia or a few dozen other very suitable sites around the region.    Have to agree with EnemyCombatant about the US [its upper echelons, not the majority of its ordinary people]; the last 7 years have shown the regime is no longer Christian but AntiChrist.. </p>
<p>Everyone:<br />
1.. Never never never underestimate the power of Russian national spirit.<br />
2.. The West, including Germany, lost a golden opportunity to bring in an era of unprecendented peace and prosperity by full-on co-operation with the Russians while Gorbachev was still in power.  Instead, we pandered to a tiny bunch of spiteful sore-losers and ratbags in New York and Washington.  All that did was to turn potential friends into potential enemies &#8230;. quite apart from it helping the Russian kleptocracy plunder the country and handing Russia to China on a plate.<br />
3.. Of course Kosovo is important.  Russians do give a damn what happens to their Serbian brothers and sisters &#8230;. and any Serbians I have met felt  likewise about the Russians.</p>
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		<title>By: Sir Henry Casingbroke</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/05/18/the-russian-gambit/#comment-368254</link>
		<dc:creator>Sir Henry Casingbroke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 May 2007 07:06:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/05/18/the-russian-gambit/#comment-368254</guid>
		<description>I do not think Bobby F is completely crackers at all. Apart from his rabid antisemitism he has occasionally come with a fairly spot-on insight.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do not think Bobby F is completely crackers at all. Apart from his rabid antisemitism he has occasionally come with a fairly spot-on insight.</p>
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		<title>By: Jack Strocchi</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/05/18/the-russian-gambit/#comment-368237</link>
		<dc:creator>Jack Strocchi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 May 2007 06:27:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/05/18/the-russian-gambit/#comment-368237</guid>
		<description>Published by Robert Merkel on &lt;a href="http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/05/18/the-russian-gambit/" rel="nofollow"&gt;18 May 2007&lt;/a&gt; 

&lt;em&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;The question remains for the outside world: how should a cashed-up but increasingly totalitarian Russia be handled?&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;/em&gt;

In the period after Napolean Wars it was Willhelmine Germany used was the strongest counter to "&lt;a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Steamroller" rel="nofollow"&gt;the Russian Steamroller&lt;/a&gt;". But a stupid dispute over Alsace Lorraine destroyed the world as we know it. So the German card really isnt an option these days.

The moral foundation of US foreign policy is really crazy now. They are promoting democracy where they should demote it (in-bred tribalistic, sectarian fundamentalist Iraq). And they are demoting democracy where they should promote it (secular, capitalistic, quasi-Christian Russia).

The geo-politics of CIS-USA policy are even more silly. The USA military-industrial complex gets its missile defence system to play with, to counter the mock threat posed by Russian nukes. 

In return the CIS military-industrial complex gets the Putin dictatorship consolidated in order to rake off the profits from the energy boom and pay offs for looking the otherway when mobsters shakedown business.

Meanwhile nukes from Russias aging arsenal are left unaccounted for. Possibly to fall into the hands of terrorists looking for the ultimate follow up to 911.

What a sick joke.

Russia is the only great power capable of acting as a bulwark against the ring of "&lt;a href="http://www.tnr.com/doc.mhtml?i=20020415&#38;s=kotkin041502" rel="nofollow"&gt;Trashcanistani&lt;/a&gt;" hornet nest states that gird its southern border. Someone has to keep these nuisances down.

Some Russians are certainly benefitting from the oil-fuelled economic boom. But this is mostly confined to the rich elite living in the major metropolitan areas. 

Russia is in collapse &lt;a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1932236007/ref=cm_syf_inf_/102-2864602-3846559" rel="nofollow"&gt;according to Solzyhenitsen&lt;/a&gt;. It is in the midst of a &lt;a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4125072.stm" rel="nofollow"&gt;long term&lt;/a&gt; &lt;a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Russia-demography.png" rel="nofollow"&gt;demographic collapse&lt;/a&gt; unprecedented in modern states. 

This has came about because Russian political, financial and cultural elites have feathered their own nest whilst wantonly wrecking national institutions that integrate the people. 

&lt;a href="http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/07/16/1089694557165.html?from=storyrhs" rel="nofollow"&gt;Now crooks run Russia&lt;/a&gt; and have so since Stalin, the biggest gangster, liquidated the law. A nation cannot prosper when it is run by gangsters. In fact it becomes a source of infection to other nations, particularly in E Europe, Israel and latterly the US and US.

Therefore the correct policy towards Russia is risk-managing law-enforcement: quarantine. Hopefully the Russian nation will recover its powers of self-sustenance. 

Then the Russian mobsters will finally realise one can make more money for more people by "going legit", as Michael Corleone might say. Rather than milking it dry and then beating it to Chelsea.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Published by Robert Merkel on <a href="http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/05/18/the-russian-gambit/" rel="nofollow">18 May 2007</a> </p>
<p><em><br />
<blockquote>The question remains for the outside world: how should a cashed-up but increasingly totalitarian Russia be handled?</p></blockquote>
<p></em></p>
<p>In the period after Napolean Wars it was Willhelmine Germany used was the strongest counter to &#8220;<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Steamroller" rel="nofollow">the Russian Steamroller</a>&#8220;. But a stupid dispute over Alsace Lorraine destroyed the world as we know it. So the German card really isnt an option these days.</p>
<p>The moral foundation of US foreign policy is really crazy now. They are promoting democracy where they should demote it (in-bred tribalistic, sectarian fundamentalist Iraq). And they are demoting democracy where they should promote it (secular, capitalistic, quasi-Christian Russia).</p>
<p>The geo-politics of CIS-USA policy are even more silly. The USA military-industrial complex gets its missile defence system to play with, to counter the mock threat posed by Russian nukes. </p>
<p>In return the CIS military-industrial complex gets the Putin dictatorship consolidated in order to rake off the profits from the energy boom and pay offs for looking the otherway when mobsters shakedown business.</p>
<p>Meanwhile nukes from Russias aging arsenal are left unaccounted for. Possibly to fall into the hands of terrorists looking for the ultimate follow up to 911.</p>
<p>What a sick joke.</p>
<p>Russia is the only great power capable of acting as a bulwark against the ring of &#8220;<a href="http://www.tnr.com/doc.mhtml?i=20020415&amp;s=kotkin041502" rel="nofollow">Trashcanistani</a>&#8221; hornet nest states that gird its southern border. Someone has to keep these nuisances down.</p>
<p>Some Russians are certainly benefitting from the oil-fuelled economic boom. But this is mostly confined to the rich elite living in the major metropolitan areas. </p>
<p>Russia is in collapse <a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1932236007/ref=cm_syf_inf_/102-2864602-3846559" rel="nofollow">according to Solzyhenitsen</a>. It is in the midst of a <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4125072.stm" rel="nofollow">long term</a> <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Russia-demography.png" rel="nofollow">demographic collapse</a> unprecedented in modern states. </p>
<p>This has came about because Russian political, financial and cultural elites have feathered their own nest whilst wantonly wrecking national institutions that integrate the people. </p>
<p><a href="http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/07/16/1089694557165.html?from=storyrhs" rel="nofollow">Now crooks run Russia</a> and have so since Stalin, the biggest gangster, liquidated the law. A nation cannot prosper when it is run by gangsters. In fact it becomes a source of infection to other nations, particularly in E Europe, Israel and latterly the US and US.</p>
<p>Therefore the correct policy towards Russia is risk-managing law-enforcement: quarantine. Hopefully the Russian nation will recover its powers of self-sustenance. </p>
<p>Then the Russian mobsters will finally realise one can make more money for more people by &#8220;going legit&#8221;, as Michael Corleone might say. Rather than milking it dry and then beating it to Chelsea.</p>
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		<title>By: Enemy Combatant</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/05/18/the-russian-gambit/#comment-368173</link>
		<dc:creator>Enemy Combatant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 May 2007 03:44:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/05/18/the-russian-gambit/#comment-368173</guid>
		<description>Fascinating discussion, Hal,Katz, Tyro and Robert. 

Katz sez: "People like Kasparov are ineffectual pinpricks. But Putin canâ€™t tolerate them and the Russian people donâ€™t care."

Yeah, Putin pulled Gazza's passport this morning, thereby attempting to pin the dissident intellectual to the motherland.  
 I remember Arthur Koestler writing somewhere about the tournament that Kasparov played against Uncle Sammy's contender, Bobby Fischer, in the "World Championship of Chess" in Reykjavik, early seventies.  The Cold War at that time was in the low Kelvins. Throughout Russia chess was culturally embedded, the passionate recreational pursuit of millions.  America mainly rooted for Fischer because they thought they were on a winner, and with the Vietnam War another hegemonic disaster, a spot of triumphalism was just the ticket.
 
Bobby won the tournament, but later lost his marbles, denounced his country and is holed up in somewher in Asia, last I heard, completely crackers.

Now, these two former cerebral rock-stars are considered pariahs by the nations that once used them for propaganda purposes.  No wonder so many young people in the USA and Russia today are bionically bonded to the instant gratification offered by ipods, mobiles, and vid games, rather than being enthralled at the prospect of learning/playing the greatest one-on-one mind game of them all. 

al loomi sez: "for a selfstyled christian nation, the usa is strangely ignorant of the value of the â€˜golden ruleâ€™."

Nothing strange about it at all, al. It's because most Americans are  hypocrites, religiously, a condition which facilitates doublethink, politically.  Consent manufacturers and rube finessers have relied upon traits like these for yonks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fascinating discussion, Hal,Katz, Tyro and Robert. </p>
<p>Katz sez: &#8220;People like Kasparov are ineffectual pinpricks. But Putin canâ€™t tolerate them and the Russian people donâ€™t care.&#8221;</p>
<p>Yeah, Putin pulled Gazza&#8217;s passport this morning, thereby attempting to pin the dissident intellectual to the motherland.<br />
 I remember Arthur Koestler writing somewhere about the tournament that Kasparov played against Uncle Sammy&#8217;s contender, Bobby Fischer, in the &#8220;World Championship of Chess&#8221; in Reykjavik, early seventies.  The Cold War at that time was in the low Kelvins. Throughout Russia chess was culturally embedded, the passionate recreational pursuit of millions.  America mainly rooted for Fischer because they thought they were on a winner, and with the Vietnam War another hegemonic disaster, a spot of triumphalism was just the ticket.</p>
<p>Bobby won the tournament, but later lost his marbles, denounced his country and is holed up in somewher in Asia, last I heard, completely crackers.</p>
<p>Now, these two former cerebral rock-stars are considered pariahs by the nations that once used them for propaganda purposes.  No wonder so many young people in the USA and Russia today are bionically bonded to the instant gratification offered by ipods, mobiles, and vid games, rather than being enthralled at the prospect of learning/playing the greatest one-on-one mind game of them all. </p>
<p>al loomi sez: &#8220;for a selfstyled christian nation, the usa is strangely ignorant of the value of the â€˜golden ruleâ€™.&#8221;</p>
<p>Nothing strange about it at all, al. It&#8217;s because most Americans are  hypocrites, religiously, a condition which facilitates doublethink, politically.  Consent manufacturers and rube finessers have relied upon traits like these for yonks.</p>
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		<title>By: swio</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/05/18/the-russian-gambit/#comment-368143</link>
		<dc:creator>swio</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 May 2007 02:21:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/05/18/the-russian-gambit/#comment-368143</guid>
		<description>There is an interesting english language alterative newspaper written by ex-pat westerners who have live in Russia called &lt;a href="http://www.exile.ru/" rel="nofollow"&gt;The Exile&lt;/a&gt;. I would avoid it if you are offended by sexism, racism, misogyny or prostitution. 

They had a good article on Kasparov and the politics behind him here.
&lt;a href="http://www.exile.ru/2007-April-20/deleted_scenes_from_the_protest.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;Russian Protests: The Deleted Scenes&lt;/a&gt;. 
Short version: 
* Kasparov is a neo-con tool (which is how a minor Russian player he gets in so much western media), but also has a point.
* Ordinary Russians are starting to feel a little bit tired of authoritarianism. This is actually a pretty amazing development. The disgust that Russians feel at capitalism and democracy after the Yeltsin years, and hence the popularity of Putin's authoritarianism is not often appreciated in the west

There are two other articles which will give you alot of context on why Russia is acting the way it is and explain what Washington is up to in the region
&lt;a href="http://www.exile.ru/2005-December-28/freedoms_just_another_word_for_fascism.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;Freedom's Just Another Word For Fascism&lt;/a&gt;
&lt;a href="http://www.exile.ru/2006-May-19/the_cold_war_timeline.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;How Dick Cheney Got His Cold War On&lt;/a&gt;

These go over some areas that you would never know about reading western press, even the more off beat left wing sources don't really cover it. Major points:
* Russia's oil system almost ended up in the hands of western oil companies.
* The neo-cons still see Russia as a cold war enemy and would love to get control through pink/magenta/whatever coloured revolution (What? you thought that rainbow of revolutions throughout Eastern Europe were spontaneous risings of he people? Yeah and exit polling is a standard part of Ukrainian politics.)

These views all come from the same source so treat with caution. But your only alternative at the moment is to get your news from people like the BBC's Russia correspondent who is so clueless about the most basic facts of Russia that when he went to cover Yeltsin's funeral he was surprised that only a hundred people showed up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is an interesting english language alterative newspaper written by ex-pat westerners who have live in Russia called <a href="http://www.exile.ru/" rel="nofollow">The Exile</a>. I would avoid it if you are offended by sexism, racism, misogyny or prostitution. </p>
<p>They had a good article on Kasparov and the politics behind him here.<br />
<a href="http://www.exile.ru/2007-April-20/deleted_scenes_from_the_protest.html" rel="nofollow">Russian Protests: The Deleted Scenes</a>.<br />
Short version:<br />
* Kasparov is a neo-con tool (which is how a minor Russian player he gets in so much western media), but also has a point.<br />
* Ordinary Russians are starting to feel a little bit tired of authoritarianism. This is actually a pretty amazing development. The disgust that Russians feel at capitalism and democracy after the Yeltsin years, and hence the popularity of Putin&#8217;s authoritarianism is not often appreciated in the west</p>
<p>There are two other articles which will give you alot of context on why Russia is acting the way it is and explain what Washington is up to in the region<br />
<a href="http://www.exile.ru/2005-December-28/freedoms_just_another_word_for_fascism.html" rel="nofollow">Freedom&#8217;s Just Another Word For Fascism</a><br />
<a href="http://www.exile.ru/2006-May-19/the_cold_war_timeline.html" rel="nofollow">How Dick Cheney Got His Cold War On</a></p>
<p>These go over some areas that you would never know about reading western press, even the more off beat left wing sources don&#8217;t really cover it. Major points:<br />
* Russia&#8217;s oil system almost ended up in the hands of western oil companies.<br />
* The neo-cons still see Russia as a cold war enemy and would love to get control through pink/magenta/whatever coloured revolution (What? you thought that rainbow of revolutions throughout Eastern Europe were spontaneous risings of he people? Yeah and exit polling is a standard part of Ukrainian politics.)</p>
<p>These views all come from the same source so treat with caution. But your only alternative at the moment is to get your news from people like the BBC&#8217;s Russia correspondent who is so clueless about the most basic facts of Russia that when he went to cover Yeltsin&#8217;s funeral he was surprised that only a hundred people showed up.</p>
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