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	<title>Comments on: Streets of my town</title>
	<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/06/07/streets-of-my-town/</link>
	<description>Blogging politics, culture, sociology and life from Brisvegas</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jan 2009 18:08:12 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.3</generator>
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		<title>By: Graham Bell</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/06/07/streets-of-my-town/#comment-375223</link>
		<dc:creator>Graham Bell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jun 2007 20:40:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/06/07/streets-of-my-town/#comment-375223</guid>
		<description>Shaun:
&lt;blockquote&gt;The problems faced by the Central Coast are a good example of what happens when expansion is not met with proper planning.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Fair go.  This is Australia in 2007.  We can't let any of this "proper planning" nonsense happen.     It's not just a lack of planning for ordinary services but a lack of planning for major infrastructure and for industrial change [Wollongong and Newcastle for the wrecking of our steel industry; Queensland ports for the increase in overseas trade]

I gave up the car for the train when I was working in Sydney - long trip to work but I was able to use my travelling time for essential reading.  Sometimes the trips were like that SBS program of a few years back, "Going Home".</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shaun:</p>
<blockquote><p>The problems faced by the Central Coast are a good example of what happens when expansion is not met with proper planning.</p></blockquote>
<p>Fair go.  This is Australia in 2007.  We can&#8217;t let any of this &#8220;proper planning&#8221; nonsense happen.     It&#8217;s not just a lack of planning for ordinary services but a lack of planning for major infrastructure and for industrial change [Wollongong and Newcastle for the wrecking of our steel industry; Queensland ports for the increase in overseas trade]</p>
<p>I gave up the car for the train when I was working in Sydney - long trip to work but I was able to use my travelling time for essential reading.  Sometimes the trips were like that SBS program of a few years back, &#8220;Going Home&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Shaun</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/06/07/streets-of-my-town/#comment-375153</link>
		<dc:creator>Shaun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jun 2007 11:39:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/06/07/streets-of-my-town/#comment-375153</guid>
		<description>pablo, the fast ferry service oft mentioned but seems to be one of those projects that seems to always in need of an extensions. &lt;a href="http://www.openwindows.com/News/07/0312/FastShip.asp" rel="nofollow"&gt;A press release&lt;/a&gt; from March this year has some information. I'm very skeptical whether the fast ferry will ever get off the ground and float. 

dd, understand the feeling. As a new dad I would love to travel less to spend more time with my daughter. I can grab the odd day to work from home and there is a some flexibility in my work hours so that does help.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>pablo, the fast ferry service oft mentioned but seems to be one of those projects that seems to always in need of an extensions. <a href="http://www.openwindows.com/News/07/0312/FastShip.asp" rel="nofollow">A press release</a> from March this year has some information. I&#8217;m very skeptical whether the fast ferry will ever get off the ground and float. </p>
<p>dd, understand the feeling. As a new dad I would love to travel less to spend more time with my daughter. I can grab the odd day to work from home and there is a some flexibility in my work hours so that does help.</p>
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		<title>By: St Margaret</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/06/07/streets-of-my-town/#comment-375149</link>
		<dc:creator>St Margaret</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jun 2007 11:16:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/06/07/streets-of-my-town/#comment-375149</guid>
		<description>Having grown up on the Central Coast and spent my entire adult life in the city I can't say I miss the Central Coast which was a boring black hole inhabited by such a stifling Anglo monocultural cultural cringe backwater that the first asians I ever met was when I went to Newcastle uni.  And the best beaches like Catherine Hill Bay are miles out of the way anyway.  I don't appreciate the exhaust fumes and other pollution but at least there's always something to do in Sydney - night markets, art shows, concerts, movies, fabulous food, great coffee - and I live and work in exciting, progressive multicultural environments.  I have never felt the desire to holiday on the Central Coast because there are so many other great places to camp in NSW alone and when we stayed home last Christmas hols instead of migrating like all the other lemmings the Emerald City was all ours.  It was great!

I honestly don't share this Anglo urge to live right on top of sand, sun and surf day in day out when you have only 2/10ths of your time to enjoy it, 4/10s commuting and 4/10ths working in the city and your kids get bored with just going to the beach.  And one of these days we will have emissions free cars - that'll be the icing on the cake!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Having grown up on the Central Coast and spent my entire adult life in the city I can&#8217;t say I miss the Central Coast which was a boring black hole inhabited by such a stifling Anglo monocultural cultural cringe backwater that the first asians I ever met was when I went to Newcastle uni.  And the best beaches like Catherine Hill Bay are miles out of the way anyway.  I don&#8217;t appreciate the exhaust fumes and other pollution but at least there&#8217;s always something to do in Sydney - night markets, art shows, concerts, movies, fabulous food, great coffee - and I live and work in exciting, progressive multicultural environments.  I have never felt the desire to holiday on the Central Coast because there are so many other great places to camp in NSW alone and when we stayed home last Christmas hols instead of migrating like all the other lemmings the Emerald City was all ours.  It was great!</p>
<p>I honestly don&#8217;t share this Anglo urge to live right on top of sand, sun and surf day in day out when you have only 2/10ths of your time to enjoy it, 4/10s commuting and 4/10ths working in the city and your kids get bored with just going to the beach.  And one of these days we will have emissions free cars - that&#8217;ll be the icing on the cake!</p>
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		<title>By: pablo</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/06/07/streets-of-my-town/#comment-375041</link>
		<dc:creator>pablo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jun 2007 04:04:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/06/07/streets-of-my-town/#comment-375041</guid>
		<description>While not a part of the current SMH series on the central coast, a piece on the down-and-outs who live in the caves that dot the sandstone ridges around Brooklyn and the Hawkesbury was revealing. Some say there are as many as 5000 living this way.
These guys aren't all your usual alcohol soaked drop-outs, but they have chosen their spot with an eye to the view and the convenience. Keep a PO box down in the village for the disability cheque and an un/licenced rod and crab trap in the bushes...
Sorry Shaun I commiserate, don't commute, know the train trip well, a marvel of engineering which wouldn't get a look in with surplus Cossie nowadays. Whatever happened with the fast ferry service, Broken Bay to Circular Quay that was mooted. Now that would be something.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While not a part of the current SMH series on the central coast, a piece on the down-and-outs who live in the caves that dot the sandstone ridges around Brooklyn and the Hawkesbury was revealing. Some say there are as many as 5000 living this way.<br />
These guys aren&#8217;t all your usual alcohol soaked drop-outs, but they have chosen their spot with an eye to the view and the convenience. Keep a PO box down in the village for the disability cheque and an un/licenced rod and crab trap in the bushes&#8230;<br />
Sorry Shaun I commiserate, don&#8217;t commute, know the train trip well, a marvel of engineering which wouldn&#8217;t get a look in with surplus Cossie nowadays. Whatever happened with the fast ferry service, Broken Bay to Circular Quay that was mooted. Now that would be something.</p>
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		<title>By: derrida derider</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/06/07/streets-of-my-town/#comment-374971</link>
		<dc:creator>derrida derider</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jun 2007 01:38:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/06/07/streets-of-my-town/#comment-374971</guid>
		<description>I commuted to the CBD from Lisarow for a couple of years in the 80s.  It had its compensations - Shaun's description of the sun rising above the Hawkesbury and of the Friday evening parties on the train brought back pleasant memories - but I moved to Canberra because I was kissing my small son bye bye in the morning while he was still asleep and he'd be asleep again by the time I got home.  That's no way to live.

I made a bit of a killing on the real estate, but.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I commuted to the CBD from Lisarow for a couple of years in the 80s.  It had its compensations - Shaun&#8217;s description of the sun rising above the Hawkesbury and of the Friday evening parties on the train brought back pleasant memories - but I moved to Canberra because I was kissing my small son bye bye in the morning while he was still asleep and he&#8217;d be asleep again by the time I got home.  That&#8217;s no way to live.</p>
<p>I made a bit of a killing on the real estate, but.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew E</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/06/07/streets-of-my-town/#comment-374949</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew E</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jun 2007 00:36:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/06/07/streets-of-my-town/#comment-374949</guid>
		<description>The Central Coast is the divorce capital of Australia. People move there when they are after a change of scene from western Sydney but can't afford/don't want to go elsewhere in Sydney. The commute separates breadwinners from family life, and those close-by beaches are not visited as often as was initially thought. The few jobs that exist up there are mainly in retail, and middle-aged women will get those jobs ahead of the yoof every time because they are more reliable. 

When the main industry on the Coast was orcharding, it was Country Party territory. The Country Party grandees did what they've done in all coastal communities - cash in, build lotsa cheap housing, then act all hurt when people move in and vote Labor. 

A dormitory suburb does not take itself seriously as a community. It is hard to organise and easily swayed. There are 4-6 State seats on the Central Coast (depends if you count Lake Macquarie, which I regard as part of the Hunter) and Labor hold them all. 

Neville Wran was the first pollie to take the Coast seriously. Commuting was vital to him winning Gosford and Blue Mountains in 1976, which set him up for a decade in office. The capital works on weekends improving the rail line have been underway for 20 years, but they are the first major works on that line - which is only a metre or two above the water line for much of it - since the 1920s. The Libs are too scared to announce major capital works on the line, but if they did they'd win two seats at least.

The Coast has an above-normal One Nation vote because the people who left western Sydney felt alienated by the increasing presence of new migrants, and vacated their homes to them. 

I grew up in Kincumber when it was largely bush, but fled.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Central Coast is the divorce capital of Australia. People move there when they are after a change of scene from western Sydney but can&#8217;t afford/don&#8217;t want to go elsewhere in Sydney. The commute separates breadwinners from family life, and those close-by beaches are not visited as often as was initially thought. The few jobs that exist up there are mainly in retail, and middle-aged women will get those jobs ahead of the yoof every time because they are more reliable. </p>
<p>When the main industry on the Coast was orcharding, it was Country Party territory. The Country Party grandees did what they&#8217;ve done in all coastal communities - cash in, build lotsa cheap housing, then act all hurt when people move in and vote Labor. </p>
<p>A dormitory suburb does not take itself seriously as a community. It is hard to organise and easily swayed. There are 4-6 State seats on the Central Coast (depends if you count Lake Macquarie, which I regard as part of the Hunter) and Labor hold them all. </p>
<p>Neville Wran was the first pollie to take the Coast seriously. Commuting was vital to him winning Gosford and Blue Mountains in 1976, which set him up for a decade in office. The capital works on weekends improving the rail line have been underway for 20 years, but they are the first major works on that line - which is only a metre or two above the water line for much of it - since the 1920s. The Libs are too scared to announce major capital works on the line, but if they did they&#8217;d win two seats at least.</p>
<p>The Coast has an above-normal One Nation vote because the people who left western Sydney felt alienated by the increasing presence of new migrants, and vacated their homes to them. </p>
<p>I grew up in Kincumber when it was largely bush, but fled.</p>
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		<title>By: suz</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/06/07/streets-of-my-town/#comment-374939</link>
		<dc:creator>suz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jun 2007 00:16:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/06/07/streets-of-my-town/#comment-374939</guid>
		<description>It's got to the point where people move there not just to escape the high mortgages of Sydney but the high rents  - housing has moved to another notch of impossibility for friends of ours who moved to Gosford this year. They have two small kids and the dad now gets up at 4.30am to commute to a job in central Sydney, gets home about 6.30pm and has to be in bed by 9pm at latest - not much time for seeing the baby. I think they prefer it though - much bigger house with nice outlook.
I know other people who thought they were moving from Melbourne to Sydney but went straight to the central coast when they looked at house prices.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s got to the point where people move there not just to escape the high mortgages of Sydney but the high rents  - housing has moved to another notch of impossibility for friends of ours who moved to Gosford this year. They have two small kids and the dad now gets up at 4.30am to commute to a job in central Sydney, gets home about 6.30pm and has to be in bed by 9pm at latest - not much time for seeing the baby. I think they prefer it though - much bigger house with nice outlook.<br />
I know other people who thought they were moving from Melbourne to Sydney but went straight to the central coast when they looked at house prices.</p>
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		<title>By: Guise</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/06/07/streets-of-my-town/#comment-374936</link>
		<dc:creator>Guise</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jun 2007 00:14:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/06/07/streets-of-my-town/#comment-374936</guid>
		<description>Worked in Sydney for a year.  Hated it.  I had a &lt;em&gt;10 minute commute&lt;/em&gt; on a bus and I hated it (a 10 minute commnute that sometimes stretched to 40 minutes, thanks to the joys of Glebe Point Road).

I worked with someone who commuted every day from the Blue Mountains.  Two hours, each way.  Others came in from the northern beaches, by car, across the Bridge.  Travel time: highly variable, but never less than 90 minutes.  I didn't know anyone coming in from the Central Coast, but I'm sure they were around somewhere.  Looking like zombies.

Mad, all of them.  Other than the cashed-up northern beaches folks (executive scum) their whole reason for writing off four hours or more a day in commuting was that they liked the lifestyle where they lived.  Really?  And when were they there to enjoy it?  When were they awake enough to enjoy it?

That rant aside, Shaun is absolutely right in saying that many of the problems facing the Central Coast are down to poor planning and a complete lack of foresight.  Which is the NSW Government all over.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Worked in Sydney for a year.  Hated it.  I had a <em>10 minute commute</em> on a bus and I hated it (a 10 minute commnute that sometimes stretched to 40 minutes, thanks to the joys of Glebe Point Road).</p>
<p>I worked with someone who commuted every day from the Blue Mountains.  Two hours, each way.  Others came in from the northern beaches, by car, across the Bridge.  Travel time: highly variable, but never less than 90 minutes.  I didn&#8217;t know anyone coming in from the Central Coast, but I&#8217;m sure they were around somewhere.  Looking like zombies.</p>
<p>Mad, all of them.  Other than the cashed-up northern beaches folks (executive scum) their whole reason for writing off four hours or more a day in commuting was that they liked the lifestyle where they lived.  Really?  And when were they there to enjoy it?  When were they awake enough to enjoy it?</p>
<p>That rant aside, Shaun is absolutely right in saying that many of the problems facing the Central Coast are down to poor planning and a complete lack of foresight.  Which is the NSW Government all over.</p>
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		<title>By: Shaun</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/06/07/streets-of-my-town/#comment-374931</link>
		<dc:creator>Shaun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jun 2007 00:04:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/06/07/streets-of-my-town/#comment-374931</guid>
		<description>Heh. I resemble that remark Christine!

Though this morning I stayed awake which is a little unusual. But yes, there is usually a deathly silence during the morning commutes. Sometimes broken by an over loud iPod or the obvious mobile. 

And yes, an obvious Go Between reference.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Heh. I resemble that remark Christine!</p>
<p>Though this morning I stayed awake which is a little unusual. But yes, there is usually a deathly silence during the morning commutes. Sometimes broken by an over loud iPod or the obvious mobile. </p>
<p>And yes, an obvious Go Between reference.</p>
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		<title>By: Guido</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/06/07/streets-of-my-town/#comment-374930</link>
		<dc:creator>Guido</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jun 2007 00:03:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/06/07/streets-of-my-town/#comment-374930</guid>
		<description>And you have a surprisingly &lt;a href="http://www.ccmariners.com.au" rel="nofollow"&gt;very good football team &lt;/a&gt; there!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And you have a surprisingly <a href="http://www.ccmariners.com.au" rel="nofollow">very good football team </a> there!</p>
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		<title>By: Adam Gall</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/06/07/streets-of-my-town/#comment-374927</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam Gall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jun 2007 23:49:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/06/07/streets-of-my-town/#comment-374927</guid>
		<description>What a strange space to enter, David, given that trains are already such complex knots of spatial practice.

Lol, Christine.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What a strange space to enter, David, given that trains are already such complex knots of spatial practice.</p>
<p>Lol, Christine.</p>
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		<title>By: Christine Keeler</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/06/07/streets-of-my-town/#comment-374925</link>
		<dc:creator>Christine Keeler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jun 2007 23:28:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/06/07/streets-of-my-town/#comment-374925</guid>
		<description>Shaun of the dead!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shaun of the dead!</p>
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		<title>By: David Rubie</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/06/07/streets-of-my-town/#comment-374924</link>
		<dc:creator>David Rubie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jun 2007 23:20:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/06/07/streets-of-my-town/#comment-374924</guid>
		<description>Back when we lived in Sydney, I used to catch a train at Gordon or Pymble to get to work in the CBD.  Every now and again, you'd get on a train from the central coast to be greeted with carriages full of sleeping people.  It was unsettling, like a train of the dead.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Back when we lived in Sydney, I used to catch a train at Gordon or Pymble to get to work in the CBD.  Every now and again, you&#8217;d get on a train from the central coast to be greeted with carriages full of sleeping people.  It was unsettling, like a train of the dead.</p>
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		<title>By: Adam Gall</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/06/07/streets-of-my-town/#comment-374908</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam Gall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jun 2007 21:44:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/06/07/streets-of-my-town/#comment-374908</guid>
		<description>Is that title a Go-Betweens reference, Shaun? If not, why not?

Great post. Sometimes you've just got to remind yourself and others that those kinds of stories only ever tell a bit about the place you live your life. It's like when they play the assault figures for the inner areas of Sydney, or they talk about the problems on the Block. I always think that, yes, those are worrying problems, but Redfern, Chippendale and Surry Hills are still a part of my life.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is that title a Go-Betweens reference, Shaun? If not, why not?</p>
<p>Great post. Sometimes you&#8217;ve just got to remind yourself and others that those kinds of stories only ever tell a bit about the place you live your life. It&#8217;s like when they play the assault figures for the inner areas of Sydney, or they talk about the problems on the Block. I always think that, yes, those are worrying problems, but Redfern, Chippendale and Surry Hills are still a part of my life.</p>
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