Comments on: Haneef and six degrees of separation http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/07/19/haneef-and-six-degrees-of-separation/ Blogging politics, culture, sociology and life from Brisvegas Fri, 09 Jan 2009 04:04:21 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.3 By: steve at the pub http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/07/19/haneef-and-six-degrees-of-separation/#comment-386577 steve at the pub Sat, 21 Jul 2007 04:02:14 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/07/19/haneef-and-six-degrees-of-separation/#comment-386577 Srinivas! Your words amount to blasphemy on this site. You put three sacred cows into perspective: John Howard is not a cackling anti-christ; Haneef may actually have done something to attract police interest, and; There are countries on this earth which actually have an executive who couldn't care less about the suffering of the people. How dare you speak commonsense on a fantasy website! Srinivas! Your words amount to blasphemy on this site.

You put three sacred cows into perspective:

John Howard is not a cackling anti-christ;
Haneef may actually have done something to attract police interest, and;
There are countries on this earth which actually have an executive who couldn’t care less about the suffering of the people.

How dare you speak commonsense on a fantasy website!

]]> By: sublime cowgirl http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/07/19/haneef-and-six-degrees-of-separation/#comment-386569 sublime cowgirl Sat, 21 Jul 2007 02:46:23 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/07/19/haneef-and-six-degrees-of-separation/#comment-386569 Srinivas - Thanks for sharing your experience and insight here. I think most of us here agree he certainly needed to be carefully scrutinised. Most thinking prople would also agree the part about him heading off to India at short notice, paid for by his father- in-law when he is a well paid doctor is odd. Perhaps he will turn out to be a sleeper who is just good at keeping his mouth shut. Who knows? I guess the point is our justice system used to have a concept of innocent until proven guilty and its something a lot of us arent happy to let go easily. And we are uncomfortable with the feds hysterical willingness to 'politick' the entire terrorism issue the way they have. SO, even if Haneef isn't innocent, we haven't got anything of substance to prove it that would warrant his present treatment. Srinivas - Thanks for sharing your experience and insight here. I think most of us here agree he certainly needed to be carefully scrutinised. Most thinking prople would also agree the part about him heading off to India at short notice, paid for by his father- in-law when he is a well paid doctor is odd. Perhaps he will turn out to be a sleeper who is just good at keeping his mouth shut. Who knows?

I guess the point is our justice system used to have a concept of innocent until proven guilty and its something a lot of us arent happy to let go easily. And we are uncomfortable with the feds hysterical willingness to ‘politick’ the entire terrorism issue the way they have.

SO, even if Haneef isn’t innocent, we haven’t got anything of substance to prove it that would warrant his present treatment.

]]> By: Katz http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/07/19/haneef-and-six-degrees-of-separation/#comment-386565 Katz Sat, 21 Jul 2007 01:21:02 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/07/19/haneef-and-six-degrees-of-separation/#comment-386565 <blockquote>There is certainly something very suspicious about Haneef.</blockquote> Thanks for the info, Srinivas. Ethnological insights into Bangalore culture would appear to be at least as valid reasons for locking Dr Haneef up as anything the AFP have adduced so far.

There is certainly something very suspicious about Haneef.

Thanks for the info, Srinivas.

Ethnological insights into Bangalore culture would appear to be at least as valid reasons for locking Dr Haneef up as anything the AFP have adduced so far.

]]> By: steve http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/07/19/haneef-and-six-degrees-of-separation/#comment-386549 steve Fri, 20 Jul 2007 20:16:11 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/07/19/haneef-and-six-degrees-of-separation/#comment-386549 <blockquote>There is certainly something very suspicious about Haneef.</blockquote> And there is even more suspicion as to why Howaed, Ruddoch and Andrews are prepared to trample over the Judiciary to fan those suspicions about Haneef.

There is certainly something very suspicious about Haneef.

And there is even more suspicion as to why Howaed, Ruddoch and Andrews are prepared to trample over the Judiciary to fan those suspicions about Haneef.

]]> By: Srinivas http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/07/19/haneef-and-six-degrees-of-separation/#comment-386525 Srinivas Fri, 20 Jul 2007 14:46:05 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/07/19/haneef-and-six-degrees-of-separation/#comment-386525 Iam of Indian origin, living in Australia, and have seen lots of cases where hundreds of people die and the jihadis go scot free. The government does not do much as otherwise, they would loose the muslim votes. Be happy folks, that you have sincere politicians, even if they look silly in Haneef's case. The doubt arises because, if Haneef had planned to go to India to see his family, he, in all likelyhood would have had some spare cash to go to India and would not have asked his father-in-law to book his ticket. It is very unusual for a Indian guy to ask his father-in-law for this kind of a help, unless in an absolute emergency and by his own admission, he was planning to go to India much before Jul 2nd. There is certainly something very suspicious about Haneef. One more factor is he seems hardly to have any non-muslim friends, which is very unusual for a guy from Bangakore, the city where I come from. Iam of Indian origin, living in Australia, and have seen lots of cases where hundreds of people die and the jihadis go scot free. The government does not do much as otherwise, they would loose the muslim votes. Be happy folks, that you have sincere politicians, even if they look silly in Haneef’s case.

The doubt arises because, if Haneef had planned to go to India to see his family, he, in all likelyhood would have had some spare cash to go to India and would not have asked his father-in-law to book his ticket. It is very unusual for a Indian guy to ask his father-in-law for this kind of a help, unless in an absolute emergency and by his own admission, he was planning to go to India much before Jul 2nd. There is certainly something very suspicious about Haneef. One more factor is he seems hardly to have any non-muslim friends, which is very unusual for a guy from Bangakore, the city where I come from.

]]> By: Bobbie http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/07/19/haneef-and-six-degrees-of-separation/#comment-386507 Bobbie Fri, 20 Jul 2007 12:37:17 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/07/19/haneef-and-six-degrees-of-separation/#comment-386507 Since Howard & Co’s attempt to instill Fear about the unions and failed to change the poll ratings, then their attempt to use Prejudice failed to change the poll ratings, I thought from the beginning that the Haneef situation would be another attempt at wedge politics, designed to increase both Fear AND Prejudice to change the poll ratings. When Keelty and Ruddock started spruiking their prejudicial comments I was sure I was right and reading the transcript, I knew I was right. The revelation today has proved that I was right. What is shocking is how the government and AFP together engaged in this dastardly plan of lies and deceit in order to con the gullible and naïve yet again, in what has turned out to be an aborted attempt to change the poll ratings. This series of deceit and lies shows that this government, with the support of the AFP will go to any lengths to con and manipulate the voting public. This is very worrying, too close to a police state and too close to the ‘game’ played by Hitler before he took total control of Germany. Perhaps Steve is right and if Howard wins again, those of us who dare to speak up may end up on Christmas Island. Having worked in the justice field most of my working life, I am especially concerned about this, the false evidence, the prejudicial statements, the corruption of the legal and justice system in what appears to a combined plan of wedge politics. Be worried, be fearful, of what the Howard government will do to further the police state if he gets reelected. Since Howard & Co’s attempt to instill Fear about the unions and failed to change the poll ratings, then their attempt to use Prejudice failed to change the poll ratings, I thought from the beginning that the Haneef situation would be another attempt at wedge politics, designed to increase both Fear AND Prejudice to change the poll ratings. When Keelty and Ruddock started spruiking their prejudicial comments I was sure I was right and reading the transcript, I knew I was right. The revelation today has proved that I was right.

What is shocking is how the government and AFP together engaged in this dastardly plan of lies and deceit in order to con the gullible and naïve yet again, in what has turned out to be an aborted attempt to change the poll ratings. This series of deceit and lies shows that this government, with the support of the AFP will go to any lengths to con and manipulate the voting public. This is very worrying, too close to a police state and too close to the ‘game’ played by Hitler before he took total control of Germany. Perhaps Steve is right and if Howard wins again, those of us who dare to speak up may end up on Christmas Island. Having worked in the justice field most of my working life, I am especially concerned about this, the false evidence, the prejudicial statements, the corruption of the legal and justice system in what appears to a combined plan of wedge politics. Be worried, be fearful, of what the Howard government will do to further the police state if he gets reelected.

]]> By: sublime cowgirl http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/07/19/haneef-and-six-degrees-of-separation/#comment-386411 sublime cowgirl Fri, 20 Jul 2007 05:15:22 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/07/19/haneef-and-six-degrees-of-separation/#comment-386411 hey, if i lend my sim card to someone naughty, is there a chance someone might deport me, at least till after the election? Oh rats, i forgot, i'm a citizen of this increasing bizzare country. hey, if i lend my sim card to someone naughty, is there a chance someone might deport me, at least till after the election?

Oh rats, i forgot, i’m a citizen of this increasing bizzare country.

]]> By: Geoff Robinson http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/07/19/haneef-and-six-degrees-of-separation/#comment-386409 Geoff Robinson Fri, 20 Jul 2007 04:52:56 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/07/19/haneef-and-six-degrees-of-separation/#comment-386409 There's a ideological shuffle played by the right. They start with the proposition that parliamentary legislation trumps court decisions (Hayek of course would have rejected this) but then they slide to the entirely separate proposition that the executive is exempt from any obligation to obey the law and that it can make up the law as it goes along. This theory of the super executive as Schmittian sovereign is popualr on the US right as Glenn Greenwald has shown. There’s a ideological shuffle played by the right. They start with the proposition that parliamentary legislation trumps court decisions (Hayek of course would have rejected this) but then they slide to the entirely separate proposition that the executive is exempt from any obligation to obey the law and that it can make up the law as it goes along. This theory of the super executive as Schmittian sovereign is popualr on the US right as Glenn Greenwald has shown.

]]> By: Gummo Trotsky http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/07/19/haneef-and-six-degrees-of-separation/#comment-386406 Gummo Trotsky Fri, 20 Jul 2007 04:49:12 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/07/19/haneef-and-six-degrees-of-separation/#comment-386406 steve, I hope you're right. We'll see around 2:00pm on August 7th, won't we? steve,

I hope you’re right. We’ll see around 2:00pm on August 7th, won’t we?

]]> By: Katz http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/07/19/haneef-and-six-degrees-of-separation/#comment-386404 Katz Fri, 20 Jul 2007 04:29:20 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/07/19/haneef-and-six-degrees-of-separation/#comment-386404 Shamaham's dribble from FDB's link: <blockquote>This debate should not be about whether Haneef is guilty or innocent: it should be about how the case is handled from beginning to end and where there may be need for <strong>further </strong>[my emphasis] changes to the existing laws and systems. </blockquote> Huh? Among many things, the debate should be about whether the AFP had any just cause at all to subject Dr Haneef to prolonged police scrutiny, prolonged detention, partial disclosure of evidence at their disposal. And look at Shamaham's weasel word "further". This implies the need for legislative changes that take administration of justice further away from tried and true juridical methods. Shamaham should be judged and condemned for blatant begging of the question. Shamaham’s dribble from FDB’s link:

This debate should not be about whether Haneef is guilty or innocent: it should be about how the case is handled from beginning to end and where there may be need for further [my emphasis] changes to the existing laws and systems.

Huh?

Among many things, the debate should be about whether the AFP had any just cause at all to subject Dr Haneef to prolonged police scrutiny, prolonged detention, partial disclosure of evidence at their disposal.

And look at Shamaham’s weasel word “further”. This implies the need for legislative changes that take administration of justice further away from tried and true juridical methods.

Shamaham should be judged and condemned for blatant begging of the question.

]]> By: FDB http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/07/19/haneef-and-six-degrees-of-separation/#comment-386401 FDB Fri, 20 Jul 2007 04:24:30 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/07/19/haneef-and-six-degrees-of-separation/#comment-386401 "if the ALP has the ticker to go after them." Well there's the rub, no? Methinks they're so used to a lack of media support for complex messages like "let's keep our civil liberties intact" and so used to a lack of media support full stop that they'd rather play it safe. I don't know how long it'll be till they get their bottle back - or if they even really care enough beyond a few do-gooders. What I don't get is that nobody seems to really be running the wedge on this. As has been pointed out here and elsewhere (but not that I've heard by the ALP) what the fark do the classical liberals in the coalition make of all this? “if the ALP has the ticker to go after them.”

Well there’s the rub, no? Methinks they’re so used to a lack of media support for complex messages like “let’s keep our civil liberties intact” and so used to a lack of media support full stop that they’d rather play it safe.

I don’t know how long it’ll be till they get their bottle back - or if they even really care enough beyond a few do-gooders. What I don’t get is that nobody seems to really be running the wedge on this. As has been pointed out here and elsewhere (but not that I’ve heard by the ALP) what the fark do the classical liberals in the coalition make of all this?

]]> By: steve http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/07/19/haneef-and-six-degrees-of-separation/#comment-386400 steve Fri, 20 Jul 2007 04:20:39 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/07/19/haneef-and-six-degrees-of-separation/#comment-386400 Gummo can't see how the ALP could fail to take advantage of this now. It has been thee biggest legal cockup since the 'Dingo took my baby case' by the looks of things. I think you'll find it's the opportunity Rudd has been waiting for. So far we have had messing with Howard's head from Rudd. Time now to go for the throat. Gummo can’t see how the ALP could fail to take advantage of this now. It has been thee biggest legal cockup since the ‘Dingo took my baby case’ by the looks of things. I think you’ll find it’s the opportunity Rudd has been waiting for. So far we have had messing with Howard’s head from Rudd. Time now to go for the throat.

]]> By: Gummo Trotsky http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/07/19/haneef-and-six-degrees-of-separation/#comment-386398 Gummo Trotsky Fri, 20 Jul 2007 04:11:58 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/07/19/haneef-and-six-degrees-of-separation/#comment-386398 Have to admit that the idea is laughable FDB. For a moment there, I had a rush of blood to the head at the thought that there are two ministerial scalps up for the taking, if the ALP has the ticker to go after them. There's nothing amusing about the presumption that they won't, though, is there? Have to admit that the idea is laughable FDB. For a moment there, I had a rush of blood to the head at the thought that there are two ministerial scalps up for the taking, if the ALP has the ticker to go after them.

There’s nothing amusing about the presumption that they won’t, though, is there?

]]> By: steve http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/07/19/haneef-and-six-degrees-of-separation/#comment-386397 steve Fri, 20 Jul 2007 04:08:27 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/07/19/haneef-and-six-degrees-of-separation/#comment-386397 Shaun, the response is astounding. Looks like the Howard Government and their rent a crowd cheersquad have just ploughed into an iceberg. Shaun, the response is astounding. Looks like the Howard Government and their rent a crowd cheersquad have just ploughed into an iceberg.

]]> By: Shaun http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/07/19/haneef-and-six-degrees-of-separation/#comment-386393 Shaun Fri, 20 Jul 2007 03:55:09 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/07/19/haneef-and-six-degrees-of-separation/#comment-386393 At the GG Shanahan pops <a href="http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,22100474-7583,00.html" rel="nofollow">his head up</a> only to have the relevations of today smack down his apologetics. At the GG Shanahan pops his head up only to have the relevations of today smack down his apologetics.

]]> By: Shaun http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/07/19/haneef-and-six-degrees-of-separation/#comment-386391 Shaun Fri, 20 Jul 2007 03:38:11 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/07/19/haneef-and-six-degrees-of-separation/#comment-386391 Well done, lads. Any credibility in the government and AFP's ability to handle terrorism cases fairly has been destroyed. No ministers will take responsibility of course. Keelty to be their scapegoat. Well done, lads. Any credibility in the government and AFP’s ability to handle terrorism cases fairly has been destroyed.

No ministers will take responsibility of course. Keelty to be their scapegoat.

]]> By: FDB http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/07/19/haneef-and-six-degrees-of-separation/#comment-386387 FDB Fri, 20 Jul 2007 03:33:34 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/07/19/haneef-and-six-degrees-of-separation/#comment-386387 Gummo - you lolled me up good with that 'un. Ministerial Responsibility - <i>see Quaint Anachronisms</i> Gummo - you lolled me up good with that ‘un.

Ministerial Responsibility - see Quaint Anachronisms

]]> By: Gummo Trotsky http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/07/19/haneef-and-six-degrees-of-separation/#comment-386386 Gummo Trotsky Fri, 20 Jul 2007 03:24:23 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/07/19/haneef-and-six-degrees-of-separation/#comment-386386 Roll on the Seventh of August. I want to see someone take ministerial responsibility for this cock-up. Two someones actually. Or is that a pipe dream? Roll on the Seventh of August.

I want to see someone take ministerial responsibility for this cock-up. Two someones actually. Or is that a pipe dream?

]]> By: Peter Kemp http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/07/19/haneef-and-six-degrees-of-separation/#comment-386373 Peter Kemp Fri, 20 Jul 2007 02:49:32 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/07/19/haneef-and-six-degrees-of-separation/#comment-386373 Sounds like there are now 7 degrees of separation Robert, now with a coating of egg! SMH today: <blockquote>However, sources in the UK and Australia have told ABC Radio the SIM card was actually seized by police eight hours later when Haneef's cousin Sabeel Ahmed was arrested in Liverpool. Ahmed allegedly had two phones on him at the time of his arrest, one of which contained Haneef's SIM card. Police in Britain and Australia would not comment on where the SIM card was seized. If the latest report is verified officially, it would mean Haneef's SIM card was found with a man charged only with withholding information. This would dissolve Haneef's link to the Glasgow attack.</blockquote> Well may it dissolve the link. But then, what will dissolve the egg on the faces of the AFP, the Government Gazette, Ruddock & the gang??? Sounds like there are now 7 degrees of separation Robert, now with a coating of egg!

SMH today:

However, sources in the UK and Australia have told ABC Radio the SIM card was actually seized by police eight hours later when Haneef’s cousin Sabeel Ahmed was arrested in Liverpool.

Ahmed allegedly had two phones on him at the time of his arrest, one of which contained Haneef’s SIM card.

Police in Britain and Australia would not comment on where the SIM card was seized.

If the latest report is verified officially, it would mean Haneef’s SIM card was found with a man charged only with withholding information. This would dissolve Haneef’s link to the Glasgow attack.

Well may it dissolve the link. But then, what will dissolve the egg on the faces of the AFP, the Government Gazette, Ruddock & the gang???

]]> By: Mr G. H. Schorel-Hlavka http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/07/19/haneef-and-six-degrees-of-separation/#comment-386241 Mr G. H. Schorel-Hlavka Thu, 19 Jul 2007 07:34:24 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/07/19/haneef-and-six-degrees-of-separation/#comment-386241 I have extensively canvassed Dr. Haneef issue already on my blog at http://au.360.yahoo.com/profile-ijpxwMQ4dbXm0BMADq1lv8AYHknTV_QH Just to add. Whatever the guilt or innocence of Dr. Haneef should be left to the DUE PROCESS OF LAW as is permitted within the constitutional framework. Oops, the last bit “within the constitutional framework� is precisely what is not and has not been applied. Then forget about Dr. Haneef rather concentrate on the TERRORIST in the Federal Government who are abusing and misusing their powers. As my blog sets out, laws that are beyond constitutional powers are no laws at all and have no legal force. The laws currently used against Dr. Haneef are unconstitutional and so we should support Stephen Keim SC making clear that he is concerned about how it will effect his grandchildren, as we should all be concerned how it will effect our grandchildren. If we allow this ongoing TERRORISM by the Federal government to continue a kind of KGB/Stormtroopers/SS conduct we soon will have no rights at all. I have assisted many people in preparing their last testament and will, even those who killed themselves not long thereafter, but I do not consider that makes me an associate of a terrorist merely because the person killed himself in a car “accident�! The cost of this all should be a warning to us all that the Federal Government is using taxpayers moneys unchecked (and unconstitutionally) as some political campaign to get back those fools who accept this kind of Government TERRORISME is acceptable. Didn’t they same occur with the rise of Hitler, and later those who supported him suffered the consequences when he turned against them? As the framers of the Constitution made clear the Federal government would have no powers against an “imaginary� enemy. Yet this is what the ASIO amendment Act (Terrorism Act) purports to do. Declare war against any INDIVIDUAL in case they might be somehow associate with a terrorist. Now better do not send a Christmas card to someone who later may be associated with a terrorist, as you could be charged for aiding and abetting TERRORISM as you wished them a merry Christmas. Perhaps, we should lock up all members of the Federal Parliament in Christmas Island detention centre and we will all be a lot safer and have less terrorism to suffer from. I have extensively canvassed Dr. Haneef issue already on my blog at

http://au.360.yahoo.com/profile-ijpxwMQ4dbXm0BMADq1lv8AYHknTV_QH

Just to add.

Whatever the guilt or innocence of Dr. Haneef should be left to the DUE PROCESS OF LAW as is permitted within the constitutional framework. Oops, the last bit “within the constitutional framework� is precisely what is not and has not been applied. Then forget about Dr. Haneef rather concentrate on the TERRORIST in the Federal Government who are abusing and misusing their powers. As my blog sets out, laws that are beyond constitutional powers are no laws at all and have no legal force. The laws currently used against Dr. Haneef are unconstitutional and so we should support Stephen Keim SC making clear that he is concerned about how it will effect his grandchildren, as we should all be concerned how it will effect our grandchildren. If we allow this ongoing TERRORISM by the Federal government to continue a kind of KGB/Stormtroopers/SS conduct we soon will have no rights at all.
I have assisted many people in preparing their last testament and will, even those who killed themselves not long thereafter, but I do not consider that makes me an associate of a terrorist merely because the person killed himself in a car “accident�!
The cost of this all should be a warning to us all that the Federal Government is using taxpayers moneys unchecked (and unconstitutionally) as some political campaign to get back those fools who accept this kind of Government TERRORISME is acceptable. Didn’t they same occur with the rise of Hitler, and later those who supported him suffered the consequences when he turned against them?
As the framers of the Constitution made clear the Federal government would have no powers against an “imaginary� enemy. Yet this is what the ASIO amendment Act (Terrorism Act) purports to do. Declare war against any INDIVIDUAL in case they might be somehow associate with a terrorist. Now better do not send a Christmas card to someone who later may be associated with a terrorist, as you could be charged for aiding and abetting TERRORISM as you wished them a merry Christmas.
Perhaps, we should lock up all members of the Federal Parliament in Christmas Island detention centre and we will all be a lot safer and have less terrorism to suffer from.

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