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	<title>Comments on: Downer throws a tantrum, mocks America</title>
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	<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/07/24/downer-throws-a-tantrum-mocks-america/</link>
	<description>Life, Culture and Politics from BrisVegas</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 14 Feb 2012 07:31:18 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: chris</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/07/24/downer-throws-a-tantrum-mocks-america/#comment-85485</link>
		<dc:creator>chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jul 2007 05:24:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/07/24/downer-throws-a-tantrum-mocks-america/#comment-85485</guid>
		<description>And now the Haneef charges have been dropped:
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,22143907-661,00.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And now the Haneef charges have been dropped:<br />
<a href="http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,22143907-661,00.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,22143907-661,00.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: steve at the pub</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/07/24/downer-throws-a-tantrum-mocks-america/#comment-85484</link>
		<dc:creator>steve at the pub</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jul 2007 02:03:17 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Adrian, how many poor American blacks have been prepared risk drowing to &quot;make it&quot; to Cuba to live a better life under the superior Cuban system?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Adrian, how many poor American blacks have been prepared risk drowing to &#8220;make it&#8221; to Cuba to live a better life under the superior Cuban system?</p>
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		<title>By: anthony</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/07/24/downer-throws-a-tantrum-mocks-america/#comment-85483</link>
		<dc:creator>anthony</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jul 2007 01:57:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/07/24/downer-throws-a-tantrum-mocks-america/#comment-85483</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Potemkin villages are named for Prince Potemkin, the very pre-Soviet toyboy of Catherine the Great.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I always thought they were Mr Ed villages.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Potemkin villages are named for Prince Potemkin, the very pre-Soviet toyboy of Catherine the Great.</p></blockquote>
<p>I always thought they were Mr Ed villages.</p>
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		<title>By: adrian</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/07/24/downer-throws-a-tantrum-mocks-america/#comment-85482</link>
		<dc:creator>adrian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jul 2007 01:49:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/07/24/downer-throws-a-tantrum-mocks-america/#comment-85482</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Now if only that care and attention extended to the right to democratically elect their government etc…&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Interesting question, Adam, although you didn&#039;t phrase it as such.
Would you rather be, say a poor black American with your (barely) functioning democracy, virtually non-existent health care and limited prospects, living in a crime and drug ridden ghetto, or a Cuban.

We tend to automatically assume that the right to democratically elect a government should be of paramount significance to all, and maybe it is. But when the &#039;democratic&#039; system is so compromised, and living standards for some, so desolate, you&#039;ve go to question that assumption.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Now if only that care and attention extended to the right to democratically elect their government etc…</p></blockquote>
<p>Interesting question, Adam, although you didn&#8217;t phrase it as such.<br />
Would you rather be, say a poor black American with your (barely) functioning democracy, virtually non-existent health care and limited prospects, living in a crime and drug ridden ghetto, or a Cuban.</p>
<p>We tend to automatically assume that the right to democratically elect a government should be of paramount significance to all, and maybe it is. But when the &#8216;democratic&#8217; system is so compromised, and living standards for some, so desolate, you&#8217;ve go to question that assumption.</p>
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		<title>By: Ambigulous</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/07/24/downer-throws-a-tantrum-mocks-america/#comment-85481</link>
		<dc:creator>Ambigulous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jul 2007 00:14:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/07/24/downer-throws-a-tantrum-mocks-america/#comment-85481</guid>
		<description>Thanks Colonel Nathan,
Prince Potemkin....  and then a similar practice followed by the Bolsheviks in power.

It&#039;s interesting to see a national custom continued, perhaps enhanced, &quot;after the revolution&quot;.

e.g. Soviet secret police akin to Tsar&#039;s secret police

Mao acting like an Emperor of old

Castro as President-for-life (remember those tales of how awfully dictatorial was his predecessor Battista?)

Kim Il Sung handing power to his - wait for it,.... collective leadership?? elected successor??? - no, to his SON of course !! The exquisitley coiffed and rational Kimbo Junior (mini-me)

Margaret Thatcher attempting to be Winston C, after las Malvinas were invaded

+++++++++++++++

Now, closer to home: what national characteristics of Australian history do we see exemplified in our national and state leaders?

convict/thieving

squatters/ land grabbers

indigenous persons dipossession experts

beer-guzzlers

wharfie/union coercionists

battling against drought + flood + bushfires/hardy innovators

cricketing legends

????

Ambigulous</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Colonel Nathan,<br />
Prince Potemkin&#8230;.  and then a similar practice followed by the Bolsheviks in power.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s interesting to see a national custom continued, perhaps enhanced, &#8220;after the revolution&#8221;.</p>
<p>e.g. Soviet secret police akin to Tsar&#8217;s secret police</p>
<p>Mao acting like an Emperor of old</p>
<p>Castro as President-for-life (remember those tales of how awfully dictatorial was his predecessor Battista?)</p>
<p>Kim Il Sung handing power to his &#8211; wait for it,&#8230;. collective leadership?? elected successor??? &#8211; no, to his SON of course !! The exquisitley coiffed and rational Kimbo Junior (mini-me)</p>
<p>Margaret Thatcher attempting to be Winston C, after las Malvinas were invaded</p>
<p>+++++++++++++++</p>
<p>Now, closer to home: what national characteristics of Australian history do we see exemplified in our national and state leaders?</p>
<p>convict/thieving</p>
<p>squatters/ land grabbers</p>
<p>indigenous persons dipossession experts</p>
<p>beer-guzzlers</p>
<p>wharfie/union coercionists</p>
<p>battling against drought + flood + bushfires/hardy innovators</p>
<p>cricketing legends</p>
<p>????</p>
<p>Ambigulous</p>
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		<title>By: Adam Gall</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/07/24/downer-throws-a-tantrum-mocks-america/#comment-85480</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam Gall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jul 2007 03:53:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/07/24/downer-throws-a-tantrum-mocks-america/#comment-85480</guid>
		<description>As much as it pains me to agree with someone called &#039;derrida derider&#039;, and as much as I am anti-Castro (and deeply suspicious of Chavez, I might add), Cuba&#039;s success in these areas is difficult to deny. The good reputation that Cuban health care has in parts of Latin America, even those places in Central America where neoliberalism is ascendant, suggests that this is not something that is simply being made up. Part of Castro&#039;s success in holding power has resulted from addressing the needs of the poor at the level of basic health and bodily well-being, which is more than can be said for previous regimes. Now if only that care and attention extended to the right to democratically elect their government etc...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As much as it pains me to agree with someone called &#8216;derrida derider&#8217;, and as much as I am anti-Castro (and deeply suspicious of Chavez, I might add), Cuba&#8217;s success in these areas is difficult to deny. The good reputation that Cuban health care has in parts of Latin America, even those places in Central America where neoliberalism is ascendant, suggests that this is not something that is simply being made up. Part of Castro&#8217;s success in holding power has resulted from addressing the needs of the poor at the level of basic health and bodily well-being, which is more than can be said for previous regimes. Now if only that care and attention extended to the right to democratically elect their government etc&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Colonel Nathan Datto</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/07/24/downer-throws-a-tantrum-mocks-america/#comment-85479</link>
		<dc:creator>Colonel Nathan Datto</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jul 2007 03:50:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/07/24/downer-throws-a-tantrum-mocks-america/#comment-85479</guid>
		<description>Potemkin villages are named for &lt;i&gt;Prince&lt;/i&gt; Potemkin, the very pre-Soviet toyboy of Catherine the Great.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Potemkin villages are named for <i>Prince</i> Potemkin, the very pre-Soviet toyboy of Catherine the Great.</p>
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		<title>By: Down and Out of Sài Gòn</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/07/24/downer-throws-a-tantrum-mocks-america/#comment-85478</link>
		<dc:creator>Down and Out of Sài Gòn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jul 2007 03:46:37 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Ambiguous:

Add &lt;a href=&quot;http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4792071.stm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Java&lt;/a&gt; to the list. And to answer your next question: there are very few Commies left in that part of the world. (They all got killed off by Suharto.) That&#039;s not a Potemkin village operation. Solid foreign policy move by Cuba.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ambiguous:</p>
<p>Add <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4792071.stm" rel="nofollow">Java</a> to the list. And to answer your next question: there are very few Commies left in that part of the world. (They all got killed off by Suharto.) That&#8217;s not a Potemkin village operation. Solid foreign policy move by Cuba.</p>
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		<title>By: Ambigulous</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/07/24/downer-throws-a-tantrum-mocks-america/#comment-85477</link>
		<dc:creator>Ambigulous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jul 2007 03:26:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/07/24/downer-throws-a-tantrum-mocks-america/#comment-85477</guid>
		<description>Potemkin Village?

I believe Steve was referring to an inportant part of Communist practice, from the early Soviet Union onwards.

1. Invite selected symapthisers to visit an otherwise closed nation.

2. Put on faked showcases (e.g. happy villagers, productive modern factories, happy farm workers, etc) with countrymen acting parts under duress. Some of the actors actually very badly off but smiling for the cameras and visitors.

3. Await glowing reports to appear, produced by duchessed writers, etc back in Europe, USA, Australia etc.

4. Repeat process in
Eastern Europe,
&quot;Peoples&quot; China,
North Vietnam,
Cuba,
Kampuchea (rarely),
Libya under the younger Gaddafi,
Iraq under Saddam,
Libya
etc
etc

Sickening.

But distressingly effective.

How gullible were the visitors? And how gullible are so many of us still today?

A little more scepticicsm, friends; a little less blind faith!

cheerio,
Ambigulous</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Potemkin Village?</p>
<p>I believe Steve was referring to an inportant part of Communist practice, from the early Soviet Union onwards.</p>
<p>1. Invite selected symapthisers to visit an otherwise closed nation.</p>
<p>2. Put on faked showcases (e.g. happy villagers, productive modern factories, happy farm workers, etc) with countrymen acting parts under duress. Some of the actors actually very badly off but smiling for the cameras and visitors.</p>
<p>3. Await glowing reports to appear, produced by duchessed writers, etc back in Europe, USA, Australia etc.</p>
<p>4. Repeat process in<br />
Eastern Europe,<br />
&#8220;Peoples&#8221; China,<br />
North Vietnam,<br />
Cuba,<br />
Kampuchea (rarely),<br />
Libya under the younger Gaddafi,<br />
Iraq under Saddam,<br />
Libya<br />
etc<br />
etc</p>
<p>Sickening.</p>
<p>But distressingly effective.</p>
<p>How gullible were the visitors? And how gullible are so many of us still today?</p>
<p>A little more scepticicsm, friends; a little less blind faith!</p>
<p>cheerio,<br />
Ambigulous</p>
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		<title>By: derrida derider</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/07/24/downer-throws-a-tantrum-mocks-america/#comment-85476</link>
		<dc:creator>derrida derider</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jul 2007 01:27:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/07/24/downer-throws-a-tantrum-mocks-america/#comment-85476</guid>
		<description>Christ people who deny obvious and well-founded facts in the service of ideology really annoy me.

satp, whatever Cuba&#039;s other failings (which I agree are considerable), it is a &lt;b&gt;fact&lt;/b&gt; that they have a higher life expectancy than the US (especially than some US minorities), a &lt;b&gt;fact&lt;/b&gt; that they have a &lt;i&gt;much&lt;/i&gt; lower infant mortality rate and a &lt;b&gt;fact&lt;/b&gt; that they have lower levels of morbidity.  The first two of these, in particular, are not stats that could be faked for long without detection. And they also have a considerable cash-earning industry in training medical personnel from other countries (mainly in Latin America because of the language) - again not something easy to fake.

Sheesh.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Christ people who deny obvious and well-founded facts in the service of ideology really annoy me.</p>
<p>satp, whatever Cuba&#8217;s other failings (which I agree are considerable), it is a <b>fact</b> that they have a higher life expectancy than the US (especially than some US minorities), a <b>fact</b> that they have a <i>much</i> lower infant mortality rate and a <b>fact</b> that they have lower levels of morbidity.  The first two of these, in particular, are not stats that could be faked for long without detection. And they also have a considerable cash-earning industry in training medical personnel from other countries (mainly in Latin America because of the language) &#8211; again not something easy to fake.</p>
<p>Sheesh.</p>
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