Earlier this year I posted on the topic of the right and wrong ways to proselytise for vegetarianism. Yesterday, at the Brisbane Exhibition (aka the Ekka) I discovered that the Australian Chicken Meat Federation had – no doubt inadvertantly – hit upon the most sublime vego promotion technique yet devised.
One of the most popular displays at the Ekka is the animal nursery, in which people can see, mingle with and feed baby farm animals and birds. One enclosure holds a flock of infant and juvenile chickens, including a raised semi-enclosed platform on which newly hatched chicks dwell and eat, observed by hordes of adoring children and their parents. And posted directly above the infant chicken enclosure is an Australian Chicken Meat Federation poster on the nutritional merits of eating chicken.
Sheer genius! Does anyone know whether a Ms. Eliza Twaddell is working for the public relations department of the ACMF?
Ha, that’s funny, although perhaps not for the chickies.
The best way to proselytise for vegetarianism?
During the Comedy Festival, I went along to see
Dolly Putin discuss the treatment of pigs when they are being prepared for the chop, errr, or ham or….anyway, she used humour to get across her message. Much more tasty than getting lectured by a feral. Indeed, as tasty as a pork chop.
By the way, when I mention the Ekka in Melbourne everybody looks at me like they haven’t got a clue what I’m talking about. That’s not unusual and Melburnians are not the smartest folk, but not knowing what the Ekka is? Crikey!
Yep, we Melburnians are often bemused by our fellow-Australians’ rural folkways.
BTW I enjoyed a dish of jellyfish, Szechuan-style, over the weekend.
Sure hope those jellyfish didn’t suffer any more than their rudimentary central nervous systems absolutely allowed them to.
Oops. I’ve got a 6 page picturesque photo essay on lamb and sheep breeds on pages 7-12 and then a four page piece on 23 different ways to butcher a saddle of lamb with photos on page 43-26 for this quarter’s mag. It was always going to be my tribute to Skyhook’s Straight in a Gay Gay World and paddock to plate completism but I didn’t realise I’d be getting vegetarian kudos.
Sooner people start getting interested in where their meat comes from, the sooner they start asking questions.
Should mankind take the animal out of meat. You have obviously decided the answer should be yes, but I wonder. Remember the push is now on for a “natural” diet, organic if you please. Just perhaps that means facing facts, vegetables grow in dirt, milk comes from a cow ( oh yuck it’s mammary glands), eggs are embryos and meat is part of a dead animal.
The display in question was probable put up by a farmer and they faced and reconciled the issues you are struggling when they were, oh, about 4 years old.
Perhaps the world would be a better place if more people had to chop of the head and pluck the chook for the Sunday roast.
Yeah spot on there charles. I think I was 4 when I saw my first sheep being killed and ran back to the house to get some bandaids (bless me little cotton socks).
I reckon I was six, and it was a quasi-ritual my farming grandparents organised, specifically to show us what it means to eat meat. To see my own friendly uncle Nobby slit a sheep’s throat was not meant to desensitise me – quite the reverse!
I was pretty grossed out, but have since taken to killing and eating with gusto myself. My hard-line position is that you shouldn’t eat something you’re not prepared to kill personally. But certainly if you can’t so much look at a baby chicken without questioning your diet, you have NO BUSINESS EATING MEAT.
How was it a ritual, FDB?
“Yep, we Melburnians are often bemused by our fellow-Australians’ rural folkways.”
Which is why I miss Queensland, oh beautiful Queensland”.
FDB (and similar from Charles) :
Agreed: that’s my policy (although you only have to kill one per species). For me (lots of rellies with sheep/dairy), it was a quasi-ritual, but with chooks. Other rellies would ask “have you killed a chook and eaten it yet?”, find out I had at another Uncle’s, and say “OK, we don’t have to do it then”.
As for killing lambs, that wasn’t on:… a young kid could easily botch the job.
Mind you, the house lambs were ALWAYS going to end up on the table being eaten by kiddies, so they always had appropriate names to remind you what was going to happen: “Mint sauce”, “Lamb Chops”, etc. These days “Kebabs” would be a good name.
I don’t eat placental mammals, even though I’ve killed a few small ones on farms and in labs. However, I do reckon if you are Australian and must eat milk-producers, don’t eat hooved animals: go for szechaun skippy, roo-lade, etc, as it’s much better for the land.
Just tell them that they can find it in the Refidex…
I’m more concerned about what they put in the chicken’s feed. Rumour has it that they are heavily dosed with antibiotics. As the parent of a child with type 1 diabetes, which was aquired in close proximity with the chicken pox, as it was also for a number of other children in our area (there were 6 children diagnosed in the same week from the same area), the possibility of a link with over anitbiotic consumption and the chicken pox virus is tempting for the lay person to contemplate. This could all be twaddle of course but what is put in the feed of our food is a growing concern. I remember years ago the drug companies offering substances for injection into chickens to preflavour the meat before slaughter. Goodness knows what else they have drempt up sinse then.
Yes, I’ve done that. It’s a Melways they tell me. A Mel…what?
Whatever, I say.
I should point out that after I left the Dolly Putin show, I went and got a Big Mac.
While I admire vegetarians, when I tried it myself many years ago, I couldn’t stop thinking about meat.
The only thing that makes me think twice before eating chickens is the hormones they’re pumped with. But I learnt the other day that the soy milk my parents raised me on is full of phyto-oestrogens. So I didn’t get the runny noses that I used to get from cow’s milk… but instead I took a substance which is thought to accelerate the growth of tumours AND operates as a female sex hormone in the human body. Thanks mum and stepdad…. but I still love you of course. Damn! That’s the oestrogen talking!
“How was it a ritual, FDB?”
Only in that it was a rite of passage of sorts, and pretty much compulsory. Rest assured, there weren’t no chanting or fire-twirling.
mmmmm – chicken . . . I’m thinking of a tandoor that falls of the bone with a bit of cous cous.
Nothing better than catching a ___ (name your favourite fish) and carving off a slice from the still quivering fish and eating it with a bit of Wasabi from the tackle box. Makes my mouth water just thinking about it.
Regarding chickens, they haven’t used hormones here in forty years but they do use antibiotics (also as a growh promotant if I’m not mistaken).
the hormones they’re pumped with.
It shits me that so many brands of chicken meat are sold as ‘hormone free’. What a way to pander to complete ignorance. As anthony says, they haven’t used hormones in Australia since forever.
Has anyone else tried pickled Vietnamese unhatched chickens? Yum yum.
I wasn’t going to waste my time debunking the use of hormones urban myth. They do use anti-biotics at a very low dosage rate. The PETA types would probably rather they just got sick and died agonising deaths.
Antibiotics have not been used in Australia as growth promotants for about 9 years. Certain specified antibiotics are used for the same purposes as they are used in humans ie as a prophyltic where bacterial disease is likely or as a cure where a disease is already present.
Try googling the subjects.
Antibiotic use is not exactly moral-burden-free, in that it “removes” much of the need for keeping the chickens’ enclosures sanitary.
hurray… so I can eat chicken! I already do anyway… its like crack to me.
Takifugu?
Given the current flu scare sweeping Brisbane, recent concerns about bird flu, the close proximity of Ekka-goers to animals and birds of various species and the fact that most of these creatures are being displayed competitively, I’d be most surprised if the exhibitors and the organisers didn’t make sure that every bird and every beast was well and truly vetted and medicated.
You eat crack?
If I did crack I would smoke it… but what I meant is that I’m addicted to chicken
I was just being stupid Cliff.
Although I’ve been known to smoke chicken.
I’ve been known to burn it.
I’m waiting for the patches…. maybe nando’s can make some for chicken and not just the marinade?
Give the man a Nando’s patch.
If it wasn’t a blemish-free uncastrated male animal burned at an altar it hardly counts as a ritual, does it? Psht. Religious observances these days are so fucking soft.
Now Abraham taking Isaac out to the paddock with his cleaver—that’s a rite of passage.
I just knew this thread would bring out the.. problem. Whether it is politics or religion (same thing really)most people are so limited in their awareness of reality, ie Not wot rocks your particular diry socks.
So many idiocies – sorry, I’m usually polite, even with cretins and arrogant a…holes but this thread orta to be bronzed and put up as a plaque – probably the only comparable thread would be drug policy or sex education.
Amphibious – what the blazes are you talking about?
I’m rereading Jane Austen’s Emma at the moment, and in the fourth chapter of that book (I think it’s the fourth chapter, can’t be bothered checking) there’s a dinner party where they enjoy a meal of ‘scalloped oysters’ and ‘minced chicken’.
Minced chicken is a new one to me. Is it minced and fried? Had atop of bread? I presume it’s a 19/18th century delicacy that’s gone out of style.
One of the nice touches to the film Amazing Grace was the emphasis it had on William Wilberforce’s universal benevolence to animals. He was (according to the film) fond of all creatures greater and small, with pets/animals running havoc all over his house. Though he didn’t seem to have too many compunctions eating his English roasts!
Not sure how true the movie is to life, though.
FDB – sorry, I was just so bemused by ‘the usual suspects’. Like most vegs. I’ve heard it all (over 40yrs – anyone wanta arm wrestle, dig ditches etc…) and stand amazed at my own moderation.
there are certain subjects (religion, drugs, sex, economics, politics)when otherwise rational people take leave of their senses and revert to knuckle dragging justificications – tastes good, canines, Tarzan theory, none stand three seconds scrutiny.
Desoite being a vegie I’ve been (and am still in essence) a farmer. I’ve raised, slaughtered, skinned & tanned every beast on which I’ve ever had a hand. I just think it is dumb to eat them.
Sure, on my 10,000 acre bush block I’ve trapped, or shot, many goats (my totem/atavar – NOT avatar there IS a difference)and pigs and roasted them on eucalypt coals and chewed through them but really couldn’t see the point.
Nice enough, if you (want to ) like that sort of thing but a learned response and only an emergency measure.
If you want to get real (not a forte of blog types) a week without food is no big deal, it just sharpens ones perceptions.
Ain’t NO hunter-gatherer society that ever depended on the Mighty Hunter to bring home the meat – even the Equimaux/Innuit relied on the women & children for protein & bulk in their diet.
Men & weapons are mainly for fighting other males with a testosterone problem.
Think about it, what function does a sword or spear serve except to kill another (male) person.
You want to slice open a head or a coconut? – which axe needs to be sharper/stronger?
otherwise rational people take leave of their senses and revert to knuckle dragging justificications
Yes, and bizarrely, they seem to start flinging about the justifications pre-emptively (ie before anybody has even so much as hinted at the suggestion that meat eating mightn’t be the be-all and end-all of life on earth.)
Minced chicken, TimT, is chicken what has been put through a mincer. Like so.
Tim, I think it is chicken that’s had what Zoe indicates done to it, then it’s cooked in a sort of egg custard so it’s vaguely like a quiche. My Jane Austen Cookbook is in my office otherwise I’d try to look it up.
Well, at least they are being honest! These are farm/agricultural folk, exhibiting their best ‘products’ and indirectly hoping to promote their industry.
Agreed, it might have the same effect as ‘Babe’ for some who previously ate pork.
I was a vego for ten years, until my infant daughter ‘failed to thrive’. Today I watch my girls juggle the ‘cute Daisy cow’ trope at the same time as they enjoy eating meat, fully aware of where it came from. They don’t see an ethical dilemma or hypocrisy in this any more than the average traditional farmer did.
Well I’ve got my hands bloody gutting and cleaning birds and fish that I killed and which ended up the table. Quite happy to outsource it all now. And pay a premium for the knowledge the protein’s coming from a farm not a factory.
Be interesting to see how some deal with the ethical dilemmas of eating meat in an upcoming ‘Chicken Little’ world.
That minced chicken recipe sounds quite asian. Minced chicken and pork are widely available where I live to make pot stickers – like chinese / vietnamese tortellini, you can fry them or steam them. The minced chicken/pork is mixed with minced fresh ginger, garlic and green onion.
MMMmmm… (salivates)
Amphibious:
I assume you mean when they had a few spare ones?
This is bollocks anyway – the Inuit ate meat almost exclusively. Sure, women and children would help with the hunting, at least of fish and caribou, but don’t try and sell me no stories about lentils and cavolo nero and nuts and freaking berries. This is a land of ice for 8 months and permafrost tundra for 4 – eat meat and lots of it or fark off south.
And what’s the matter with lionising the efforts men who can take a shitty bone/sinew/hide canoe out in the Arctic ocean, kill and haul home a FUCKING WHALE – thus feeding their family and heating their igloo for the entire winter? Sounds pretty impressive to me.
It was a bit like watching Ed Norton beat himself up in Fight Club.
Amphibious, I’m reading you as saying we should kill animals but shouldn’t eat them.
Cock-a-leekie soup uses minced chicken.
(Not sure if it’s Jane Austen, I just like saying cock-a-leekie)
Anthony – no, just that I’ve no objection, per se to using & killing animals, I just think it’s dumb (unnecessary, and these modern days bloody unhealthy, to eat them). They are too useful in so many other ways, converting rough grazing to dung for the garden, clothing, blankets, plough-power, milk & beastings etc, sheer calorific output (Alpine farmhouses have the stables beneath for the underfloor heating effect – entering a byre early on a frozen morning is like a sauna).
FDB – I just knew someone like you would pop up – “bringing home a whale” puhleeez, a seal if they were lucky and if not, not prob. coz the missus would have some dried fish or eggs to keep the family going until Mr Macho managed to stumble across something to justify his existence. Innuit lived in the tundra most of the year which is rich in much foodstuff (but not whales) and only went onto the ice for very limited periods, and never without a good store of provisions.
There’s always a terrified tarzanist somewhere so insecure that it takes very little (sic!) to bring them spluttering to the fore.
On “Babe” and vegetarianism: Does anyone remember the following jokes:
On the “ritual” aspects of getting kids to kill, prep (apart from the actual cooking) and eat an animal:
It wasn’t so much a “rite of passage” as something to drive home what was required (including animal pain) to be an omnivore and to wear clothes: shearing (“here’s the tar and brush, kid”), gathering vegetables from market gardens, milking cows, churning butter. Also at school we had to make bread by hand starting with wheat in a sack, using mortar and pestle during other lessons to make the flour.
These experiences give an innate understanding (needed for informed decisions) not only about what is involved in eating meat, but also the energy inputs into non-animal food and clothing: something too few appreciate when considering their choices as consumers.
Perhaps it would be handy to have educational sections at city agricultural shows where kids get experiences of killing a chook, dipping it in boiling water, plucking it, and taking it home for cooking, rather than have a disjunct between “cute animals” and what they eat.
FDB, your argument is predicated on the idea that all humans were once Inuit.
“FDB – I just knew someone like you would pop up – â??bringing home a whaleâ?? puhleeez, a seal if they were lucky and if not, not prob. coz the missus would have some dried fish or eggs to keep the family going until Mr Macho managed to stumble across something to justify his existence. Innuit lived in the tundra most of the year which is rich in much foodstuff (but not whales) and only went onto the ice for very limited periods, and never without a good store of provisions.
Thereâ??s always a terrified tarzanist somewhere so insecure that it takes very little (sic!) to bring them spluttering to the fore.”
Dunno what your “(sic!)” is meant to refer to – do you know what it means? Maybe you were referring to your own repeated misspelling of Inuit.
You don’t know much else about them either I see:
1) Their division of labour was pretty strict – men hunt, build stuff, drive the huskies; women cook, clean, make clothing, raise children. You don’t have to like it, but don’t blame me! You’re the one bringing gender into it, remember?
2) Some Inuit lived down near the treeline, some further north. We’re not talking about a homogenous mass of people here, and in any case the very phrase “tundra most of the year” if completely ludicrous – learn some geography. Tundra is permanently frozen ground which for a few months is thawed on the very surface and thus green and living.
3) Tundra is “rich in much foodstuff” – BWAHAHAHA! Compared with an ice sheet, perhaps. Are you talking about moss, gorse, gnats… what exactly? Birds, caribou, musk ox – lots of them, but then… these all need killing, don’t they?
4) Yes, they only went out onto the sea ice for limited periods, usually limited to men on short hunting expeditions while their families wintered together. They would hunt as best they could through the ice, and otherwise feed on the preserved proceeds of their summer-long KILLFEST. But if they didn’t succeed in getting seals or a walrus or a whale they were very unlikely to make it through to spring.
In summary, a more carnivorous people you could not hope to find. If you want to show how unnecessary meat eating is, do yourself a favour and talk about ABSOLUTELY ANYONE ELSE. Or just confine your spoutings to a forum where nobody has studied the Inuit.
And cool it with the insinuations that I’m some neanderthal. I’m just picking you up on a few ignorant howlers. I’ve got no problem at all with vegetarians/ism, and spend a good deal more of my time growing vegies than killing things.
Oh and Helen – my “argument” (if you would thus dignify it) is solely about amphibious’ stange and wrong pronouncements about the Inuit.
Although to bring it back on topic, they did have strongly animist beliefs, and were in constant fear of disfavour from this or that god of their prey. Respect and thankfulness towards the animals was a basic tenet of their worldview. I suspect that’s about all we can learn from them of contemporary relevance.
FDB – the “little (sic!)” is homage to the P plater ad, wiggling the finger.
Don’t know what you think you were studying but it wasn’t the pre-French Esquimaux
1)”build things, drive huskies’ – post French trappers.
2)”tundra…permanently frozen” – er, no that’s the permafrost (hence the name).
3) Tundra is the vegetated moor/heath land north of tree line (which is forest, not their territory, too desirable by stronger peoples).Both stunningly rich in food as you (partially)listed and trade was very important. Fish, fowl, small mammals, dried and/or mashed into pemmican. Caribou were not hunted by Esquimaux – no suitable weapons – found as carrion occasionally.
4) Back to that ‘whale” obsession – mr macho just can’t let it go emotionally though you accurately note that men would go a’hunting whilst the families wintered to “.. feed on the preserved proceeds of their summer-long KILLFEST…” Yeh, gotta get that sexy killing stuff in there, otherwise where would ye’be?
“..a more carnivorous people you could not hope to find…” which is precisely why I chose them to make the case that NO, soi-disant, “hunter-gather” society has ever, nor COULD ever, rely upon tarzan to bring home enough food, no matter how (apparently to euroids)harsh the environment. qv Kalahari Bushmen, Aborigines, Tierra del Feugans – they ALL depend/ed on the children & women for the majority of the bulk AND protein.
The reason (you thought) that I was bringing gender into the discussion is the same reason you brought up being a neanderthal (I didn’t mention it – methinks thou dost protest too much).
Discussion of vegetarianism, like so many political themes, ALWAYS has overgrown Lost Boys lurking in the outer darkness somewhere, bemoaning their lost (imagined) dominance. They try anything to prove that we need fat’n’blood running down our jaws and then compound the fallacy by claiming that only men can supply this.
Thank you for demonstrating it so perfectly.
Could the protagonists in this discussion please desist from biting chunks out of each other.
That’s okay Paul, I’ll leave our froggy friend to bite chunks out the straw-me to his/her content – never let it be said I don’t come as a vegetarian option!
Amphibious, this is clearly a fave hobby horse of yours, and I wish you well riding it. The Inuit will certainly be interested to learn about their shiny new cultural and culinary history.
I blame Sam Neill.
Sam Neill was promoting Mutton.
The evil poultry producer is the sworn enemy of the heartland sheepmen.