That said, it does bear following up.

Prospective citizens will be able to speak and understand English, but does that mean they will be able to speak and understand Australian?

Austalian isn’t a language. I understand your point about idioms – the fact that confusion can be arise even in cases of native English speakers from the same country, etc.

It leaves me with a bit of a ‘so what?’ feeling though. Every now and then I have a hard time understanding idioms (from musical terms to slang used by different subcultural groupings, etc.). If I’m confused by an idiomatic usage of language or term, I ask to have it explained to me.

People might not understand some usages, but … so what? If they understand English they can presumably enquire as to the meanings of terms. If they don’t understand English then it’s kind of irrelevant anyway.

I’m afraid I just don’t get your point.

Granted that was years ago and I was only a teenager, but I’m sure you see my point.

Teenagers are dumb?

*sigh* Another irony meter to be repaired.

http://www.theage.com.au/news/opinion/we-dont-want-your-rich-migrant-culture/2007/08/28/1188067108372.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap1

The whole thing is a farce.

I agree, but a harmless one. On the other hand, the immigration policies of the Fraser and Hawke govts often looked like a malicious practical joke. Whose brilliant idea was it to bring people like Habib into the country? Do we really want immigrants to drag their spouses around in a cloth bag?

Howard’s immigration policies, which focus on bringing in and bringing up migrants who will add to our economic prosperity rather than culltural diversity, have so far proven an overwhelming success.

The results speak for themselves. The unemployment and crime rates for incoming adoptives are low relative to the 1975-95 period when loonie Lefties and ethnic lobbies called the shots. As a consequence, natives are “relaxed and comfortable” about the adoptive inflow.

THe only test that should really matter in so far as immigrants are concerned is the IQ test. However the Cultural Left has managed to the subject of comparative intellectual performance, both within and between cultures, a taboo subject. Dont open that closet unless you want to rattle some ideological skeletons.

SO the government is reduced to drawing up proxy test for immigrant suitability. With somewhat farcical results, as Mark notes.

I would throw the question back onto Mark and ask him what what immigrant selection criteria, induction process and encultation policy does he think is in AUS’s national interest? I suggest that immigrants, whether black, white or brindle, should be fit, smart and nice. A bulging bank account would do no harm.

And they should be encouraged to be team players, fitting into the AUS mainstream. If you want OECD-standard outcomes you have to follow OECD-standard practices.

We can all agree that multiculturalism as it stands is too vague an answer to that question. Unless Mark is happy to let people like the Dayak headhunters in, on the grounds that they would bring much needed cultural diversity to our hum-drum lives.

“It is not unreasonable, four years into the time you have lived in this country, that you have some working knowledge of English

Short answer – how many languages does John Howard speak? It’s a very common attribute of those who have never successfully studied a foreign language to have any idea how hard it can be – and this doesn’t include picking up a bit of very similar European languages.

Well my question is: Why should anyone have to speak English to become a citizen here anyway?

No I don’t think they have to. I think it’s an extremely good idea that they do and to their benefit if they can but they can still be citizens as good as any other citizen with abilities far below what would be deemed necessary for this.

and there most certainly wont be translations, because as you infer Anthony, it has nothing to do with understanding principles at all.

Well that would be enormously cynical of me to say so but it wouldn’t be the first time language has been used in this country in this way.
I think this is an attempt to make a two tiered citizenship process and is a tummy rub to the kind of people who take the greatest pride in the things they’ve done nothing to achieve
1) the country they were born in and
2) the language they were born with.

“It is not unreasonable, four years into the time you have lived in this country, that you have some working knowledge of English and some understanding of the basic values and aspirations of Australian society.”

In other words, to do the test you need to speak and write English. So its unlikely there will be any accommodations such as audio, and there most certainly wont be translations, because as you infer Anthony, it has nothing to do with understanding principles at all.

Well my question is: Why should anyone have to speak English to become a citizen here anyway? Does a migrant who comes here as an adult with identity fully formed, ever have to identify as unproblematically Australian anyway? Time eventually works on the generations and brings about the assimilation Howard is so anxious to force onto people, so what is this about?. We have already proved in this country its not necessary for migrants to speak english, it makes things harder for the migrant (though my dad got by just fine thank you very much), but it is not necessary.

Well bugger Howard, cause this is another way for him to homogenise this country. He is so busy erasing sites of difference, I wont be surprised if pretty soon he will be asking prospective citizens to powder their faces white with a straight face, after four years or so, just so they can integrate better, you know. God forbid, people should betray any signs that multiculturalism still thrives in the nation and continues even against the concerted effort to erase it. Abhorrent after all that some “ethnics” continue in the outrageous notion that they can become Australians but continue to identify with the national identity of their country of origin, maintaining, against every imperative of this govt, the cultural values of that country, whether or not they match up with Australian ones.

To paraphrase Groucho – I wouldn’t want to belong to a club that wouldn’t have these people as members.

David – an audio version wouldn’t necessarily help but a translation would – because we’re interested in understanding the principles right?