An LP reader writes about their day at the office:
The sound of helicopters is ubiquitous this week in central Sydney – not just in the city, but they can be heard – and seen – from kilometres around. Their drone is regularly punctuated by sirens.
Descending into the canyons of the CBD on my way to work, the din of the copters gets worse. Uniformed police are everywhere – in Phillip Street outside the law courts, standing at the front and back entrances of hotels and of course, beside the fence. It begins to spit with rain on a grey day, adding to the Blade Runner atmosphere.
Like most people who work in CBD skyscrapers, we’ve been warned for weeks about what to expect for APEC. We’re to wear our ID cards prominently, not use the stairs between floors and watch for unknown people trying to get into the building. When it comes to it, there doesn’t seem to be any extra security at the front door. Once inside, the helicopter roar can still be heard and at one point a supersonic plane jets past low overhead, sending people running nervously to the windows.
At lunchtime I decide to go and see the fence for myself. It’s easy to walk around – the main streets have only a quarter the usual number of people on them. When I get to the fence, the streets become almost deserted.
The fence is very new and shiny-looking and I wonder what they’re going to do with it when APEC is over – is there a market in used security fences or will the police keep it, for future “emergencies”? There must be kilometres of the thing.
I’ve heard stories about people being asked to show the police their photos and being told to delete them. Apocryphal stories maybe, but I keep my tiny camera in my pocket and try and use it unobtrusively. I spot other office workers on George Street with cameras. I stand on the corner of Bridge and Pitt Streets and immediately notice a police officer appearing to supervise an anxious-looking middle aged man in deleting photos from his large camera. I quickly take a photo of them. 
I see some people who look to me like working class retirees who’ve come into the city to look at the fence. They take a photo of it (the police officer’s too busy with the other man to notice) and look very grim. It all feels very grim, with the din of the helicopters, the police every way you look, that outrageous fence.
I walk down to Circular Quay, past the Marriott with its line of police out front. The Quay is almost deserted. Unlucky the few tourists who unwittingly came to Sydney this week. Two helicopters sit still in the sky above the harbour, droning on. A jetski zips round the water in the exclusion zone below the Opera House – police checking for terrorists or bombs or both.
Rossini’s is closed! I bet the waitstaff didn’t have provision for any enforced-holiday pay in their AWAs (if they even have AWAs – I wouldn’t be surprised if they’ve been laid off for the week and will be rehired next week, that’s how it works in the café business.) Young Alfred’s in Customs House, which on weekdays is usually bursting at the seams, has hardly anyone in it. The usually bustling streets are empty.
But then at rush-hour, the streets are more jammed than usual, as traffic is forced into routes it wouldn’t normally take, due to closures.
As I go past the two police guarding the back door of the Sheraton in Castlereagh St, blocks away from Circular Quay, I’m glad to be getting out of the city. It’s a nasty, paranoid world that’s they’ve constructed in there. The more I think about that fence, the angrier I get. Who are these “leaders” who need such barriers? What kind of “freedom” is it that places snipers on the roof above where I walk in my lunch hour?
I don’t know what challenges to the personal safety of the 21 leaders are, although I can guess there may be a few. Until I know what they actually were, I couldn’t hazard a guess as to whether all the security precautions are necessary.
I heard there’s 5km of fence.
Not taking the stairs between floors sounds a bit ridiculous. If we’re not wasting precious energy on running elevators with one person, the violent protesters have won!
The security is over the top. The lurker has a good point about the notion of freedom when there are snipers everywhere. The paranoia disturbing and an example of how security has turned into expression of irrational fears.
And when this happens, you know things are bad.
And as I mentioned in a previous post, even the Chaser Boys have been caught up in this mess.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/09/06/2025817.htm?section=justin
The snipers & others are there to protect freedom, not to take it away.
The leaders who require protecting include some who run some despotic regimes. For example: The leader of Vietnam, a brutal viscious communist state.
The government of this leader has serious form with human rights violations, the full extent of which would cause most people to want to commit deadly violence were they to know.
Many Australian citizens are refugees from the treatment dished out to its own people by this vile regime.
Understandably this leader is at risk from those who would wish to get square for what has been done in the name of his regime.
Then there are the leaders of several free nations. As anyone who has been awake since the 11th of September 2001 will know, free nations and the leaders are subject to arbitrary deadly attack from committed zealotic types.
Personally, the security arrangements make me feel like a little boy again.
I wish I was there to soak up the butch atmosphere and to hear the helicopters.
Nothing like the sound of freedom throbbing overhead
Apparently they were training their guns on pedestrians on the harbour bridge!
But I agree with SATP. I don’t think the security is irrational – what a target this would be for terrorists.
I love how pictures are fences are so dangerous that they must be deleted immediately, for fear that – i don’t know – someone will bomb a fence or something. I would be intrigued to know what laws pictures of fences break.
Steve, you seem kind of confused mate. First you say it’s about protecting freedoms, and then cite the various regimes requiring said protection. Then you say it’s about free nations and attacks. Seems kinda weird to be both protecting freedom, and protecting regimes, don’t you think?
Personally, I wouldn’t drag freedom into this at all: they’re ostensibly protecting world leaders. In reality they’re doing a lot of of SFA. And you think that’s bad? You need to talk to my doctor friend who is furious that her patients requiring semi-urgent heart surgery are getting sent all over the country (or just waiting, waiting) so the beds/equipment can be reserved in case there’s a world leader with a similar problem during APEC. Empty beds and wards everywhere.
Oh come on, you really don’t think the terrorist threat would be high?
Even????
Their whole point in being there was to get caught up so that they could get a bit of footage for their show.
Though I do like their pantomime horse gag- a dig at both equine flu and APEC security.
Spotto the deliberate contradiction!
There’s no contradiction.
The snipers are protecting their freedom to run despotic regimes.
Frankly I’m glad the security precuations. It would be a buggar of gigantic proportions if (say) some Chechens had a ahot at Putin while he was wandering around the Opera House, or whatever.
Even the Chaser boys! Because they staged a fake motorcade and got through a check point!
This shows the disturbing potential for security still to be easily cracked.
Imagine the media response if a pedestrian accidentally got shot by one of these snipers.
Spiros – agreed.
The Opera House is one of the wonders of the 20th century. Even Melburnians admire it.
Of course a much-heralded meeting like this, in such an exposed site, is a prime terrorist target.
And the voters’ response: goodbye Howard and his gang and hopefully Iemma and his too.
And that’s one of the problems, SATP. The snipers, many of the SAS, motorcycle cops, those cops on the jetskis, ASIO etc are still little boys who’ve never grown up and are still living a comic book reality. That’s why they are so dangerous.
The photos in the post should be enough to sicken any decent Australian.
I suppose they should have done nothing and just let the CBD get demolished by the ferals.
Is that what you want?
For those so unhappy with the security measures – what do you think would have been the appropriate level of security measures? One unarmed policeman per world leader?
I think if “many” members of the SAS lived in a “comic book reality” they’d be dead by now.
What, as a percentage figure David? What is high? Is high 10%? 50%? 1%?
No, I don’t think it’s high. But moreoever, you’re barking up the wrong tree.
If you knew anything about terrorism you would know that front-end measures are the least successful way of stopping it. Back-end intelligence is what’s actually effective. That, and not invading other countries.
By associating the security theatre of APEC with terrorism, you’re conflating two totally unrelated things: Denying people to take photographs of a chainlink fence on a street they would be able to take photos any other day of the week, three kilometre radius, shutting train stations, etc. = Stopping terrorism.
These things are not connected. Banning pictures is not going to stop terrorism, especially when you can’t ban all of them. A bigger fence isn’t going to stop more terrorism than a smaller fence (not going to stop any, but you get the picture). So on and so forth.
The fact people so willingly buy into this patently false narrative is quite disturbing to me.
I also love it how anyone who protest anything is a “feral”, and that harmless hippies are also “ferals”.
God, if black people were protesting and politicians started calling them “monkeys” there would be an absolute outrage, yet somehow marginalising and stigmatising protesters is a-okay in the eyes of both the media and politicians. Did they learn nothing from the Iraq protests?
In 1999 I traveled through Pakistan and Saudi Arabia.
Some things happened on that trip that confused me at the time. Remeber this was before September 11.
* Soldiers armed with machine guns guarded the hotel we stayed at.
* Driving past the Pakistani parliament and Australian embassy our taxi driver told us we should not take photos or we’ll get in trouble with the police.
At the time I didn’t know that terrorists use photographs as part of their planning so I thought the rule about not taking them was some stupid, ignorant third world thing. Spending all my life in Australia I had never even seen a real life machine gun before and didn’t understand why they were there at all.
In 2007 I can see these things happening in my home town.
Question: If a country becomes more like Pakistan, are things improving or getting worse ?
The SMH has a good story here about police activities in Sydney this week.
Everyone in sydney’s scared at the moment, jumpy. Helicopters every seven minutes – I never thought this would affect me so much, but it’s really playing on my nerves. Weird things are randomly wrapped in police tape, like garbage bins or parking spots, and police are congregating in strange places like outside the Hilton in their bike shorts. People are really reluctant to be on the train, too. If there’s a loud noise on the platform, or if the platform gets crowded, people start to get jumpy. Some poor woman suicided in front of the train I was on the other day and we were delayed for about half an hour and people on the train were getting angry and freaked out and conducting loud conversations about possible terrorist attacks and laying into the Federal Government (whereas usually they would get pissed off and start rabbiting on about how shit the trains were and how it was Iemma’s fault). Talk about a climate of fear.
It’s making me really angry now, though – who do they think they are? I don’t mind the fence so much, or the declared area, but the constant helicopters and the fear on public transport and the police swaggering around like they run the place and pictures of snipers showing up in the papers, and this demonising of the protesters who I’m sure are just like any other set of protesters, kind of earnest and with maybe one or two batshit insane people, but for crying our loud they’re not going to attack pedestrians for wearing Nike symbols. If there was a specific, declared threat, we would surely have been informed, so why all the melodrama? If there is a specific and declared threat and we haven’t been informed, then that’s even worse.
With or without the security? Whatever the case, I’d call 1% extremely high.
Granted – but front-end measures can only further enhance it. For something like this, we need pretty much everything. The fact is that massive amounts of security in a confined area will reduce the risk of an attack.
Seriously that is lame reasoning. You can put a 100% stop to pretty much nothing in the world, but does that mean you don’t act the reduce the risk? Photos could potentially be linked to a terror threat. The fewer the better.
Seriously tone the certitude of your rhetoric, it’s making you look very foolish.
Sydney Peoples Alternative to APEC
Rally & Festival Friday September 7, 11am-2pm
Hyde Park North
Performances, speakers, information stalls. No marching to or from the peaceful rally / festival
Men from U.N.C.L.E; Ken Stewart (Urban Guerillas); Bolivarian Band; Korean drummers; Solidarity Choir, Lina Cabaero.
Speakers: Elmer Labog (KMU Philippines); Prof. Jane Kelsey (NZ); Dr Michael McKinley (ANU); Abigail Jabines (Greenpeace Asia Pacific); Peter Jennings (Union Aid Abroad – APHEDA); Matt Howard (Iraq Veterans Against the War – USA).
MC: Dr Patricia Ranald (Australian Fair Trade & Investment Network)
Many thousands of people in Sydney do not welcome the Asia Pacific Economic Cooperation (APEC) meeting in our city. Their alternative view will be expressed at a colourful festival to be held on Friday, September 7 in Hyde Park North from 11am to 2pm. The official APEC is treating Sydney citizens as suspects and evicting them from beautiful parts of their city.
The official APEC is here to push nuclear power, free trade with all its privatisations and deregulation, and to assert that big business can run the world better than democratic citizens. That’s also why APEC promotes repression in our region. That’s why we are protesting and projecting an alternative people’s agenda. All People for Environment and Community, a wide coalition of community groups who have come together to organise the Peoples Alternative Festival, is creating a venue for the views of every Sydney citizen who puts the rights of people and the environment before the interests of corporations.Music, performance, speakers, and information and food stalls will combine to offer an inclusive peaceful people’s vision for the future, in stark contrastwith the secretive, repressive big business agenda of the 21 APEC leaders behind their concrete barricades. Our Festival will promote the people’s alternative of fair trade, real action on global warming, genuine development to alleviate poverty, opposition to war,and respect for the labour rights and human rights of all the peoples of our vast Asia Pacific region.
The Peoples Alternative Festival will promote the values of peace, security and harmony, and the use of diplomacy and dialogue to replace force as a means of resolving conflicts.
One bloke made my entire APEC week this morning. As he couldn’t throw his banana peel in a bin covered by black plastic and police tape, he took out a key, tore a hole in the black plastic, and dropped the peel into the torn hole.
I salute you, nameless rebel of rubbish!
I’m in Sydney and I feel extremely safe thanks to the strong security presence. Yeah people are freaking when they see bags lying around on trains, but that’s quite rational. My brother got asked where he was going by simply stepping out his *front door*. But he didn’t feel that was a problem. Actually he felt like he was living in the safest street in Australia.
Just clarifying: I don’t support the demonising of protestors, and I have no doubt some of the rational fear of terrorist attack is because illegitimately used to crack down on protestors.
swio, I had the same experience when I travelled through Spain in 1978.
Question: If a country becomes more like Spain, are things improving or getting worse ?
I’m in the middle of the CBD, quay end, and I know exactly what arleeshar is saying. The mood is pretty pissed off, and nobody is buying this ‘leader of the free world’ shit that I’ve heard so many times on the ABC, as if we’re supposed to be proud to have a war criminal in our midst.
There are so many police around, maybe it would be a good time to rob a bank somewhere out in the suburbs if you were so inclined.
Fair enough David,
then please explain to me how banning pictures of the fences is making us all safer. Or even how a three kilometre radius, rather than a one kilometre radius makes us safer.
This is what I mean by a false narrative: these things aren’t connected to safety, except in the most tangential way.
I loved watching The Man from U.N.C.L.E. when I was a kid – it was a great show.
GregM, if they’re getting like Spain in 1978, then isn’t it pretty obvious that things are not improving?
From my high-rise downtown office block this afternoon, my colleagues and I watched incredulously as a Black Hawk helicopter, twice within the space of an hour, thundered past between the buildings just below our line of sight (on the 29th floor).
Pointing at us from the side of the open window of the chopper was a very large machine gun, manned by a gunner in combat fatigues. We felt like extras in a white collar version of Apocalypse Now.
A frightened colleague mentioned a report in the paper this morning about how staff in the neighbouring AMP building had been warned to stay away from the windows. We all scurried back to our desks.
Outside, the sinister presence in the the sparse, caged streets is almost palpable. An eerie silence is puncuated by the sounds of sirens and choppers. Armed police lock pedestrians behind the barricades for 20 minutes on end, while long presidential convoys pass by.
“Over the top,” is the almost universal description of the security precautions in an exercise which has provided the most vivid demonstration yet of how close we are to becoming a police state.
Those who accuse me of hyperbole would do well to read Phillip Roth’s novel, ‘The Plot Against America’ (about the emergence of an imagined fascist state in the US under the Nazi-sympathising aviator Charles Lindbergh). Totalitarianism creeps up on you. And we are nearly there.
The leaders who require protecting include some who run some despotic regimes. For example: The leader of Vietnam, a brutal viscious communist state.
Are you serious, Steve? You think some disgruntled emigre is going to put a cap in his ass or something? What rot.
The ridiculous thing is that when APEC was held last year in Vietnam, security was far laxer than in Sydney. There was none of these ridiculous fences.
Spain in ‘78, eh. OK.
If we have to have the Guardia Civil and the beating of uni students, can we at least have the rent protection, the stupidly low cost of living and the cheap, cheap wine?
They use Wagner. The boys love it. It scares the hell out of the geeks.
So far as I know, we have NEVER been at a high level terrorist alert in Australia.
I knmow this because Phillip Ruddocfk keeps on telling us this.
So far the only APEC demonstration I know about has been non-violent. My excessively suspicious mind tells me this is a JWH created security scare dreamed up to get him some traction in an election he’s doomed to lose. Iemma had no cfhoice but to go along with it othertise he would have been accused of supporting “terrorists” and “violent protestors.
Mad King George came early with the specific intention of giving JWH’s electoral chances a boost. Its probably had the opposite effect. He couldn’t do it duringt APEC, as one of APEC’s guiding principles is that you DON”T intefere in member nation’s domestic politics. Anybody think Vietnam, China, Burma, Malaysia (who aren’t too happy about the “climate change” agenda) mightn’t be feeling a little bit spooked?
Down and Out of Sai Gon – please describe exactly how the lovely Vietnamese Government would have dealt with the ferals who regularly conduct violent actions at these sort of events. Were there any protests at that APEC?? Why not?? I understand the Vietnamese Government is a paragon of virtue when it comes to the matter of human rights.
Ah, yes, with Ratty, grossly obese, head shaven, lurking in the depths of Kirribilli House, body parts of various Liberal Party Wets hanging from hooks tied to the camelia bushes.
“The horror! The horror!”
And Rudd is Willard, braving the voyage across Sydney harbour in a tinnie to cut down a ranting, incoherent Ratty with a machete.
Please describe exactly how the lovely Vietnamese Government would have dealt with the ferals who regularly conduct violent actions at these sort of events.
Beat them with their batons and their watercannons – just like the NSW police. I don’t really see how the fences are necessary in either case.
Were there any protests at that APEC??
No. For some reason, Bush is actually popular in the country. (Probably the only country in the world, come to that.) But then the US ended up as a home for a lot of refugees in the 70s and 80s, so Bush is a symbol of sort for their relatives.
I understand the Vietnamese Government is a paragon of virtue when it comes to the matter of human rights.
Really? Then you are extremely misinformed.
“Dolly don’t surf.”
Never get off the boat, Chief Katz. Never get off the boat.
Meanwhile the Chaser have taken the Mickey out of the whole thing – the police are going to be furious and the ratings for the Chaser next week should go sky high.
Wonder if ch 7 can buy the chasers by next week and make a motza out of the advertising.
Alister, I thoroughly enjoyed my time in Spain in 1978. Franco was dead and freedom was breaking out everywhere. And yes, Liam, there was the stupidly low cost of living and the cheap, cheap wine. The beer was pretty awful though. Not their thing I suppose.
Ah, memories.
A good thing if they are Paul. Aren’t issues like their human rights records and their failure to address climate change the very issues that you will be protesting against? It seems from your post that you have an ally in that arch-subversive George Bush. Who’d have thought?
I don’t think the Burmese would be too spooked. They don’t get a guernsey at APEC and they are too incorrigble to give a rat’s about what sentimental lefties like you and your mate George W think of them.
Those who accuse me of hyperbole would do well to read Phillip Roth’s novel, ‘The Plot Against America’ (about the emergence of an imagined fascist state in the US under the Nazi-sympathising aviator Charles Lindbergh).
I read that a few weeks ago. Excellent book and good analogy.
Ahh, but they do run the place. They aren’t supposed to, you are — but they do. I feel for you guys. I really do. I am not sure where you guys are headed, but I know that we “Yanks” find ourselves here. I hope you all can take action to avoid the same for yourselves.
Take care.
Yeah 9/11 really did change everything eh … it emboldened our governments to think there’s practically nothing that can’t be justified in the name of ‘national security’ – which they seem to equate with their own personal security, strangely enough.
Even the object of the exercise is deliberately blurred by the government. Howard says it’s all because of the violent protestors. Others say it’s to protect the
politiciansworld leaders. Another version says it’s to prevent terrorism.I think they’re doing it just because they can. I mean there can’t be too many things more ego-stroking than knowing you deserve $300 million worth of military protection.
If people actually thought the terrorism issue through, they would realise that this would be a perfect time for terrorists to commit an atrocity in Australia … on some soft target well away from the Sydney CBD.
What a pack of whingers.
And apparently you’re all terrified too? Sorry I should have typed “terrified” since you guys love putting those little fingers in the air when you mention scary words.
Dear oh dear, it doesn’t take much to set you mob off does it? Watching the left get its knickers in a knot is top viewing lol…
Liam at 3.10 pm
I’m old enough to remember an explosion in a rubbish bin outside a Sydney hotel (where Commonwealth leaders were gathering) – was it 1978? A garbage worker died, not a policeperson or soldier; not a Prime Minister.
I applaud those who had the foresight to cover the bins. And by the way, have the authorities found those stolen rocket launchers yet?
The certitude held by some bystanders, that “there’s not really any danger of a terrorist attack”, really beggars belief.
Were the Bali nightclub/restaurant outrages too far away, for you to pay attention?
I hope President Hu Jintao wasn’t offended by the lack of an OTT security response in Perth.
I was surprised to see the Governor General greet Bush at the airport wearing a military uniform. I thought he had retired from the army.
Just as well that Peter Hollingsworth resigned from the job. If not he might have turned up in Archbishop’s mufti; mitre, crozier and all.
Bet the Cops are loving it.
They get to be the real Stasi, if only for a week: Looking into people’s notebooks, deleting photos, checking ID’s, ordering people about, sighting-up unsuspecting civilians in the sniper-scope. Might even get the opportunity to practise that choke-hold on a few longhairs too.
Ah, the joys of working at Checkpoint Charlie.
If Howard reckons this is winning him votes, he’s in for a shock.
Because they could potentially be used for a terrorists analysis eg. of where police check points are or whatever. It’s just a lot simpler to say ‘no photos’.
Sorry but that’s a very silly question. Obviously the farther you can keep people away the greater the leeway to enact a response before the intruders get anywhere really crucial. The whole Chaser thing showed this: they penetrated through a couple of checkpoints, but security still had time to freak out and stop them.
Seriously, it really isn’t all that scary. It’s not the start of 1984-world, it is a short-term and one-off minor sacrifice of civil liberties during a time when a terrorist could plunge the world into chaos. I do think there is a lot of whinge going on. People are a bit put out for a few days and they start drawing comparisons with Vietnam!
It’s actually the resident right but dream on!
Yeah, we’re just two steps away from a brutal police state….nobs !!!!
Ambigulous:
Two policemen and one garbageman were killed. The bomb was outside the Hilton Hotel in George Street. A plaque naming the dead stood on a plinth on the footpath for years. Post the Hilton renovations it is embedded in the wall on the south end of the Hilton’s George Street frontage.
At the time the Hilton was the venue for a regional CHOGM meeting.
‘terrorist analysis’?! Come on, dude. You think someone walking past couldn’t say, “yup, there’s a checkpoint”, you think the information isn’t readily available on innumerable government websites already?
It’s not rocket science, it’s not even analysis.
Re fences: So, by your reasoning, a five kilometre radius would be even safer? Or a ten kilometre radius safer still?? Do you the problem with this kind of thinking?
Also, it begs the question, why don’t they do what they usually do and have the goddamned thing on an island resort, where nature does all the work, instead of inconveniencing a city of six million at the costs of god knows how many hundred of millions of dollars.
Who’s saying it is the start of a 1984 world? Certainly not me. People seem so keen to engage in this either/or thing. Just because something isn’t the end of liberty as we know it, does not mean it’s a good or a right thing.
Just because it’s only shit, doesn’t make it okay, and doesn’t make it okay to put up with.
That said, the reason why people are comparing it to Vietnam is because declarations of temporary inconvenience for the greater good are a regular part of the history of countries with less than fabulous democracy.
hmmm, number of trolls is making me wonder if this hasn’t been linked to from Blair et al. I would check, but can’t really deal with the nausea that entails.
“I hope President Hu Jintao wasn’t offended by the lack of an OTT security response in Perth.”
What? He didn’t make it to Northbridge?
A link by you to just ONE government website which reveals security information to the public (and terrorists) will be sufficient.
PatrickG @ 2.51pm
Actually that last sentence tells the rest of us all we need to know about your credentials PatrickG, no need to hold yourself up as more of a security expert then prattle on about how all the sensitive security information will be posted on “numerous” govt websites for ease of terrorist access.
Do your parents know you are using the computer?
Nicely written, Mr. Denmore.
Any of your co-workers take cell phone vids for YouTube and posterity? Be surprised if this degree of inter high-rise Hovver and Awe will be highlghted on MSM, especially this up-close and personal.
Ambigulous, all this kind of thing does is make the garbage collectors’ work messier, not safer.
I can;t work out if David’s joking or not:
“Yeah people are freaking when they see bags lying around on trains, but that’s quite rational.”
‘Cause that’s possibly the least rational thing I’ve read in this thread.
d
Were he young and aboriginal Geoff, I think something could have been arranged.
Come on, re-read this thread – refer to references to the impending “police state” and Apocalypse Now.
Far out. Terrorist operations require very fine detail – something in the photo could be critical in a way that isn’t immediately noticable. Why do you think both terrorists and government spies sometimes often use photos?
Yes it would make it safer. No I don’t have a problem with that kind of factual reasoning. However, on top of that, we need to reason in terms of security’s trade off with civil rights and efficiency. But don’t change the subject, this was not what you were arguing. You repeatedly, and with rhetorical force, stated that the APEC precautions didn’t improve security at all. Clearly, this is wrong.
This is a once in a lifetime chance to show off our city to all the world. I think the benefits easily outweigh the costs.
Come on, re-read this thread – refer to references to the impending “police state” and Apocalypse Now. (I didn’t say it came from you.)
Yeah… so what? Do you think that APEC is all a big Reichstag fire-like trick to take away civil liberties in order to develop a police state? No of course not. It is a compromise in a very limited area for a very limited and pre-defined time.
I meant simply that people are becoming concerned and alerting authorities when bags are left unoccupied. This is clearly rational, and Sydney stations have been notoriously lax about this until now.
Whoops my comment @ 6:11 remove first paragraph – not meant to be there!
And isn’t it attractive? Tourists will be flocking from everywhere to see it. So beautiful. So safe. So secure. So very warm and welcoming.
“Hmmm, Sydney looks nice dear”
“I was thinking of Guantanamo, but you’re right. Looks like a real hoot. Let’s go.”
David – I thought that the Olympics was a “once in a lifetime chance to show our city off to the world”? These once in a lifetim opportunities seem to be coming around pretty often lately. It’s a pity that the “rest of the world” this week is twenty-odd politicians who will be spending most of their time in meetings. I don’t see how having this meeting in Sydney is serving the “greater good” more than having it, for example, on Fraser Island?
Oh yeah, just 20 of the most powerful people in the world. Connections and personal impressions really do have a big impact. The indirect trickle on effect of this kind of thing would be massive. Never mind the fact that just Bush brings along more than 600 people – many of whom will be hanging around in the US public service for decades. Hardly 20 pollies.
Steve says
“Two policemen and one garbageman were killed. The bomb was outside the Hilton Hotel in George Street. A plaque naming the dead stood on a plinth on the footpath for years. Post the Hilton renovations it is embedded in the wall on the south end of the Hilton’s George Street frontage.
At the time the Hilton was the venue for a regional CHOGM meeting.”
So who was behind that event then?
Terrorists?
Or maybe ASIO and other security services that were struggling to justify their powers and budget?
Seems amazing that even today no-one has been found guilty of that crime eh.
Those with the most to lose from a lack of further ‘terrorist’ sagas are the police and security services, all trained up and no asses to bust?
That’s true David, but do you really think that downtown Sydney is the only place in Australia to make a good impact?
I’m pretty sure that a lot of the support staff at APEC won’t be real impressed with the way that Howard has shut down a major city to host this meeting. It doesn’t exactly scream common sense.
Sydney is the capital for business. This is what’s going to have the biggest impression on them. Not even considering the fact that Sydney cannot be disputed as our most marketable city to foreigners.
Yes I do think they will be impressed with the tight security. It’s really not as bizarre as we are all thinking – we just aren’t used to it. Remember this kind of thing happens all the time in New York or Washington.
David – I take it that you live in Sydney then.
Really, I don’t buy this argument that APEC had to be held in Sydney because it’s the capital of business etc. APEC isn’t normally held in major cities for all the problems that have been outlined so far.
They don’t throw up fences in New York or Washington by the way, it isn’t considered democratic.
I agree with both Mick and David.
Not at this level it doesn’t. You get just as many ‘world leaders’ congregating regularly at the United States headquarters in mid-town Manhattan, without the city being cordoned off and commuters having to scramble through cages to get to work.
Anyone who has traveled knows that the level of security here at APEC in Sydney is completely over the top and has been engineered by Howard and his cronies to heighten a sense of fear in the general population. This is fascism, pure and simple.
The politicians love it because a fearful population is a docile one; the police and the security apparatus love it because they get to play with all their new toys and live out their fantasy of running the place and, of course, an hysterical, tabloid media loves it because fear and loathing sells newspapers.
Vested interests all.
As an aside, I’ve been in Washington DC outside the White House, taking pictures without anyone hassling me. I’ve walked down Downing St in London as a tourist and I’ve circled the Emperor’s Palace in Tokyo completely ignored.
People used to joke “the terrorists have won!” after any minor restriction – but the level of fear in Sydney is higher than ever, and I don’t make that joke anymore.
This transcript of an Australian Science Festival panel about fear seems relevant in the parts where they’re talking about terrorism.
Anyway, I don’t think Washington is the best guide for how to deal with terrorism, really. And I don’t think this APEC meeting will have that many benefits for Australia – have any of the previous meetings achieved anything much? Is there any reason to believe this one will be different?
It should been held at a tropical resort like Port Douglas or Uluru. Hard for protesters to get. Less interruption in peoples life.
And as nobody else has said it yet: Free the Chaser 11!
Dolly etc commenting on Chaser Arrests.
.
What an idiotic comment. The cheap use of the word fascism doesn’t add to your argument. It just shows that instead of thinking you resort to cheap slogans which end up showing that you aren’t capable of adding anything intelligent to political debate.
When the president or key politicians want to get out and about they will block whole highways and corden off wherever they choose.
Yeah and you can take pictures of anywhere in Sydney or Australia without being hassled either. This is a one off where they don’t want you taking photos of the security boundaries during exceptional circumstances.
Bullcrap.
APEC meetings http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/APEC#APEC_annual_meetings
Do you ever think about what you write before you post it or do you think you can make it up as you go along and no one will notice?
Speaking of, it’s worth pointing out that the no photos rumour we’ve all been accepting comes from this:
Kim, is there any reason to think that the police officer didn’t just informally ask to make a precautionary check of the photos?
GregM, OK fair enough my memory failed me. I don’t know where I picked that up from.
I work in the Sydney CBD and have been watching what’s been happening, as I walk from Town Hall to the RBG and back again. Cops everywhere you look, deafening choppers lingering above, buses rebadged as paddy wagons, eerily empty streets. You buy your coffee and yoghurt with muesli from vendors who are thrilled they’ve actually got custom.
And once at work, you read accounts of a helicopter with open door and a sharp-shooter aiming at Bridge pedestrians. You read of workers in the AMP Centre being told to draw their blinds and avoid looking at the choppers. You talk with your colleagues. People are feeling targeted and people are feeling scared. They are angry.
Nothing in the post above from the anonymous LP reader surprises me. It’s exactly what it’s like.
Yes, I’ve heard all the arguments. Great for business. Great for show-casing Sydney (albeit a rather ghost-town version). But sorry, I don’t find being host to some of the most loathed war-mongers in the world who require such levels of security particularly worth it.
This is OUR city. It’s not Howard’s and Iemma’s. We are being massively screwed about. And we’re not happy.
And for those who tell me “to get over it”, I would love them to have walked to work with me today, and to have seen what I saw.
Well OK, let’s stop pointless speculation and consider some empirical evidence. How about summarising the ‘trickle on effect’ of the APEC meetings that have been held in Canberra (1989); Singapore (1990); Seoul (1991); Bangkok (1992); some island near Seattle (1993); Jakarta (1994); Osaka (1995); Manila (1996); Vancouver (1997); Kuala Lumpour (1998); Auckland (1999) … eh you get the picture. Have they all been showcased to the world, to the eternal glory and enrichment of their inhabitants?
Can you remember exactly what you were doing when the news broke that the 2004 APEC meeting would be held in Santiago? Were you glued to your TVs last year watching the goings-on in Ha Noi?
Here’s a random bit from the APEC site under the heading, ‘Key Milestones‘:
Wow, that was worth $300 million. The WTO must have shit itself. Oh wait, it’s half the same countries as constitute APEC.
It’s beyond comprehension that otherwise intelligent people continue to get taken in by this crapola. Maybe they’re the ones who still believe that company annual general meetings are the supreme policy-making forums of corporations.
Er, why? What’s the big issue with taking photos of a big lump of concrete and metal that transects the Botanic Gardens?
Have you seen the fence? It’s homogeneous. What possible justification can you give for stopping people taking photos? It’s not as though there are “weak spots” that might be vulnerable to terrists [sic]. There are none.
The simple reality is that Iemma, Howard, et al don’t want people to see how bloody ugly and nasty the fence is. They don’t want the photos all over the blogs. They don’t want them drawing comparisons between Sydney during APEC and divided Berlin or Palestine.
The city is beset by boys being able to play with their toys in a public arena beyond their wildest wet-dreams. Much of it has very little to do with security, even taking into account the currently popular conflation of “protester” and “terrorist”.
I am happy to accept a level of discomfort and inconvenience when I’m getting to work, if it’s justified. This, however, isn’t. It’s overkill, at a massive level.
The ’security’ mantra is wearing a bit thin.
It’s more for the impression of security than to provide safety.
If there was a serious risk of a terrorist attack on the APEC meeting then the last place you would choose to have it is in the Sydney CBD.
And if they really think there is a serious threat, then by having it in such a location shows that they have little concern for people’s safety, so where’s the ’security’?
According to news reports on two tv stations tonight, APEC is getting little to no coverage overseas.
No one suggested it would be.
I don’t know exactly what impact APEC has had on the cities you cite. The only way to find out would be econometric analyses, and these are notoriously limited.
You couldn’t do much with your life if you only made decisions based on empirical evidence. When no such evidence exists either way. You have to resort to common sense. I think it’s clear that the short brief cost is minute compared to the direct personal impact on critical leaders in the world and their staff.
Count the examples of hyperbole, excess certitude and weasel words from the anti-APEC/security posters in this thread. Time after time, I stick to the issues, only to get this kind of thing in response.
Goes with what I said somewhere above: little boys who’ve never grown up and are still living comic book fantasy lives.
Well someone on this blog did try to draw the comparison between Sydney during APEC and the Berlin Wall and was thoroughly shot down for what a shameful comparison that was.
But it’s a free world. Thanks to those who held resolutely to democratic ideals over fifty years of the Cold War. That doesn’t include you. You are their beneficiary but I have never seen anything that suggests that you have contributed to it.
Yeah risk analysis boils down to a simple either/or assessment. Do you take precautions driving a car? If so, driving it must be a threat. If so, why drive it?
Yeah, a big state secret. That’s why it’s freely available in the mass media. These arguments are just getting weirder and weirder.
It might be what’s around or behind the fence that isn’t immediately obvious. If you were mounting some kind of attack, you’d want the area scoped out, including the mundane parts.
Okay Stevie, though God knows why I bother responding.
Here’s one with loads of maps! Gasp! Checkpoints and all!
Sweet mother of holy jesus!!! Here’s more!!!
Anyway David, we’re gonna clearly have to agree to disagree – you think the security we have is pitched at the perfect level, despite its essentially unprecedented nature, and the only thing that will prove you wrong is an incident of some kind, which will just highlight how we should have more.
I think it’s inappropriate, unnecessary and expensive. We should never have to live with this at any moment. Whether it’s thirty seconds or thirty years.
I feel for Sydneysiders,but, the bastards are working on me out here,and are you all sure on both sides of your understandings your feelings are not being more than superimposed on by what you see and offends you.Look keep your cool, its ok. to be offended by each other and what seems to be a loss of what is really important..walk a kilometre in each others shoes,unless they are high heels or clogs. No roller blades,too fast for the slow witted. Who topped up my feelings of offence tonight was ex-Premier of Victoria Kennett who took a shot at Sydney Whingers. On ABC PM. Poor old bastard, mustnt be able to fit into his underpants size he wore when he was in Vietnam. And well if you were never caught with your pants down then having them slip off so easily is a bloody problem. As king arse down in Victoria statements about his government were a flush with Fascism,and well if you couldnt be amused by him,as often I couldnt… then its mental disorder land.Now his ping was directed towards complaining drivers..now how many people have seen Kennett in their traffic driving..he should be asked off the top of his head to name certain streets and where they cross. King Arse Kennett probably has never driven in Sydney……And I am guilt of that to.BOOOOOOOOOOO Kennett..your arse cannot expand under these conditions. BOOOOO and stick your underpants up your ….
Well David if you’re going to diss empirical evidence in favour of ‘common sense’, what do you expect? That’s another way of saying you like uninformed pointless arguments where one opinion is as good as another. I mean good luck to you if it floats your boat but you’re not really in a position to complain that other people’s interpretation of common sense is different to yours.
Well, gosh, GregM, since you don’t know me from a bar of soap and have no clue at all what I’ve done over my nearly two score and ten on this planet, I guess I won’t be weeping over your assessment of me.
I have heard the Men from UNCLE at a private performance. I know two of the band members. They do all “spy songs”.
I’ve seen your posts here. Every one predicated on a culture of entitlement and no expectation that you would ever contribute anything. That’s quite enough for me to draw sound conclusions.
Please re-read my post. We have no “empirical evidence”. Naming a list of cases and asking whether they have achieved “eternal glory and enrichment of their inhabitants” is hardly cutting edge science, now, is it?
You would need some kind of multivariate analysis – with lots and lots and lots of variables. Even then, it would be dubious.
Oooh, exactly. That’s why the guys in the black hats have sent the German tourists wandering about the Botanical Gardens to take piccies of The Fence.
Honestly, do you really think that if you were about to launch an attack on the President of the USA, you’d do it by using undercover German tourists with big cameras?? I think even back in Get Smart days, they were using rather more sophisticated surveillance methods than that.
Mind you, I suspect even Agent 86 might have been flummoxed by the use of butter knives from a Bridge Street cafe. What a cunning plan. Dressing as a German tourist and ordering two eggs and bacon, and shazaaaam! Take that, Bush! Right between the ribs with barbecue sauce.
Meanwhile, while these pathetic and hamfisted attempts ensue, a comedy team manages to get into the car park of Bush’s hotel, with one of them dressed as bin Laden.
Sorry, I’d laugh if I weren’t so disgusted.
Okay, Greg. I see now where you come from. A place of sad ignorance and happy generalisation.
I’ll keep that in mind hereafter, as I ignore your attempts at trolling. Thanks for clarifying things.
Nope. Just reading and responding to what you post. If you are not prepared to defend what you have written before I’m happy to leave others to judge your credibility.
Sorry David, but it’s your car analogy that is the simplistic either/or dichotomy.
I’m pointing the real problems taking a risk analysis approach. If there is a real threat of a terrorist attack why place the even tin the middle of the biggest busiest city in Australia, where hundreds of thouands of people are trying to go about their daily activities? Either there is no risk analysis (or they’ve simply left of the pat about consequences) or ’security’ means something entriely different to what I thought it did.
The same event could have been held at the Uluru resort (for instance), with just as much ’security’ (probably more) and a whole lot more safety for the genenral public.
Regarding the Chaser incident:
Both are saying the same thing, and both are wrong. The incident proves that the security system failed.
Wrong again. They were aiming to humiliate the police and security. And they did.
What the hell do you mean by a “real threat”. See this is what I mean by the dichotomy; you seem to think either there is a threat or there isn’t.
Obviously you analyse risks against their benefits (if not, we would never do anything risky). Why holiday in New York when you can be much safer in Bourke? Having it at Uluru wouldn’t have achieved the same positives, for the reasons I have outlined.
And if you are jailed for making the police and politicans look silly, what does that make you? Can they demand a jury trial?
I’m amazed the police didn’t notice the “security guards” carrying Handycams and filming the “Motorcade”, even Blind Freddy would’ve known it wasn’t an offical motorcade.
The Chaser in one single prank, have done more to rain on Howard’s Lovefest, than any protest march would have.
While security is obviously a very serious and legitimate concern for APEC, it’s the sheer theatricality of the measures which makes one feel uncomfortable. It feels like the elaborate, spectacular performance of state power for its own sake. And the response of protesting fits with that, as a speaking (or shouting) against power. I mean, if the threat to the APEC leaders is so great, surely the event should have been relocated to a less exposed place.
The Chaser team were “detained but not arrested”.
”
Actually, they were charged.
Well yes, precisely. So on what grounds can anyone claim that ‘The indirect trickle on effect of this kind of thing would be massive’? Thus my comment about pointless speculation.
You are a genius.
Hahahah Lomandra that’s exactly what they’ll be expecting us to do.
Er, okay. What am I not prepared to defend, David? What do you want from me? My CV from my uni days in the 70s to my current employment?
Eleven people from the ABC TV program The Chaser’s War on Everything have been charged with offences under the new APEC legislation……..thats got to really help Howard in the polls.
“I meant simply that people are becoming concerned and alerting authorities when bags are left unoccupied. This is clearly rational…”
Ok, you weren’t joking. :^)
Reporting lost property is rational. Treating every unknown as a threat requiring professional attention is crazy.
d
I heard that the main reason why APEC had to be held in a large city rather than on a tropical island is finding 25000 hotel beds for a week. That rules out Canberra also.
Peter, I think that Canberra could easily have found enough beds for the actual number that turned up (far fewer than original estimates), but not at the desired number of stars.
You know how it is. If you’re getting a big international perk, you want it to be really five star perk.
25000? Did each government send 1200 people? Someone really needs to read the government’s drug information if that was the figure they were working off.
I think Bush’s party alone is over 600, including his own medicos and a Cook, as well as Secret Service and the American Meeja pack.
Well governments (and ordinary people and businesses) do lots of things we don’t have definitive evidence for. Wasn’t it Hume who said that we would all starve if we had to rely on clear scientific proof before we acted?
The reality is much of the useful expense of governments isn’t proven, and may well be impossible to prove. So does that mean you don’t do it? The fact is you have operate on sensible hunches.
Lomandra – I didn’t say that comment about you.
Nothing wrong with state theatre per se. We all enjoyed the 2000 Olympics. But my main gripe about this current APEC hoo-ha, as both a taxpayer and a connoisseur of Debord’s concept of the society of the spectacle, is that I don’t really think we’re getting real value for our money anymore with such current Imperial Durbars.
Compare and contrast with the late 19th and early 20th century. They had 21 gun salutes, great ceremonial costumes, Praetorian, crack native troops and Household Guards all resplendent in full regimental dress, court presentations, 15 course banquets and elephants! Lotsa elephants – the whole Field of the Cloth of Gold nine yards.
But now we get insistent helicopters, dull industrial fencing, tent barbies, drab business suits, blokes with bad haircuts muttering into their sleeves while special forces get seasick bobbing up and down beneath the piers, less rather that more profit opportunities for local SMEs servicing the pomp and circumstances locus and listless photo ops during a quick whip around the harbor on some blandly designed gin palace.
True, the ritual protestor carnival may add some colour and movement. But for $300 million, I’d expect a bloody bit more of a show that what we’re getting now.
And it’s not like there’s gonna be a great punch line at the end either, such as revealing Australia’s latest entry in the APEC silly shirts contest features the Mambo farting dog image.
We paid for it, so where’s the fucking entertainment? A few heavy-handed one liners by Dubya just doesn’t cut it for 21st century audiences raised with the Star Wars/Matrix/LOTR/Olympics spectaculars.
I do like the fighter jets though.
The post is by an anonymous LP reader, David, and Kim was just putting it up. I haven’t seen her comment on this post, so I think your question is mis-addressed.
Can people please stop sledging each other by the way? There’s no need to make personalised comments. Please stick to the arguments.
Speaking of, it’s worth pointing out that the no photos rumour we’ve all been accepting comes from this:
“I’ve heard stories about people being asked to show the police their photos and being told to delete them. Apocryphal stories maybe, but I keep my tiny camera in my pocket and try and use it unobtrusively. I spot other office workers on George Street with cameras. I stand on the corner of Bridge and Pitt Streets and immediately notice a police officer appearing to supervise an anxious-looking middle aged man in deleting photos from his large camera.”
Kim, is there any reason to think that the police officer didn’t just informally ask to make a precautionary check of the photos?
I was the writer, not Kim (who just facilitated the post). It very much looked to me like the man was deleting photos while the police officer watched and made sure he did it. I could hardly believe my eyes, even though I’d already heard of an acquaintance who was taking photos in the vicinity for work purposes last weekend being instructed to delete their photos.
There seems to be some evidence that this is official policy, not just a “rumour”.
B.S.Fairman, you said
Exactly! That’s why this whole circus is nothing but a masturbatory display of faux power and a waste of time, money and effort …. and, despite all the “tight security”, it would probably be far easier for a terrorist group to cause havoc in Sydney’s CBD than at an upmarket resort.
GregM and Liam:
; it was indeed a little boisterous at times well after Franco died. Still glad I saw a bit of that great country. [The beer wasn't all that bad though; rather liked it myself].
Coincidence. I was in Spain in ‘78 too. Even had a Guardia Civil shove the barrel of his submachine gun in my guts – I took the hint
See y’all at APEC!
And the next Kyoto Round meeting on global warming is in……… why, it’s in Bali. And not a word will be spoken here about its five star perks as we earnestly watch its deliberations.
Oh the hypocrisy of it all.
The irony is that you are mocking your own dichotomy repeated back to you. You stated if there is a “real threat”, it shouldn’t be held in Sydney. How could there not be a “real threat”, anywhere?
Nabokov:
Your 9;54pm post was bloody brilliant!
I paid good money [in taxes] for my ticket to this spectacular …. and I want a refund.
You have a good time there Chav.
Just remember to wear a mouthguard.
(I don’t want to be like your mum when she sent you off to play footy when you were a kid but, y’know, I care),
Thanks for clarifying Mark and Lurker.
As I said earlier, deleting photos may be a reasonable request. I would say it is reasonable if the motivation is preventing terrorism, but not if the motivation is restraining (even violent) protests.
No worries, David.
And I’m not just having a go at the authourities unimaginatively spending our money either. I bet the protesters will be equally as predictable and boring as well.
In these days of flashmobs and global intertubal media, why don’t they all just dress as security personnel and mill around to create a provocative and non-violent media happening say like a la this? that sends an easily decoded message to billions about the down side of government industrial/security/entertainment cartels. For starters.
But no, I bet they’re gonna engage in the same old tired rituals as those they’re protesting against. Given Australia’s long larrikin history and fast uptake of new technologies, you’d hope for a leading edge Wende here and an equally innovative response by the authourities. Culture jamming does work both ways.
Instead I reckon we’re gonna get the same old, same old – chants, effigy burning and pointless (as opposed to pointed) provocation on one side and pompous gutless statements and hamfisted crowd control on the other.
Frankly, I think they deserve eachother.
Re: 25000 beds in Canberra – at the moment Canberra has barely enough beds for the people who work here, let alone visitors…
As I said earlier, deleting photos may be a reasonable request. I would say it is reasonable if the motivation is preventing terrorism, but not if the motivation is restraining (even violent) protests.
We can’t have laws and regulations in a democratic society which are based on the supposed motivations of police.
The police and politicians can justify a great deal (and are trying to with APEC) on the basis of “preventing terrorism” or “preventing violence”.
We all know that most of this security and show of power is about Bush. The US is a violent country and a violent state – their violence begets violence or the threat of violence wherever they go.
Obviously there is either a threat or there is not. A 0% risk is no threat, anything more is a threat.
Perhaps you should go back and read my initial comment before you introduced your simplistic dichotomy that you now attribute to me. I referred to “serious risk” and “serious threat”.
If all this ’security’ is ‘just in case’, then it’s a bit of overblown threatre, if it’s because there is a “serious risk” of a terrorist event, then it shows scant regard for safety to be having it in the Sydney CBD.
Zang! Excellent demonstration of Morton’s Fork updated for the Department of Homemade Security era there Michael.
Yes obviously. My point, which was written quickly and thus not expressed well (but I think a charitable reading would have understood what I meant), was that it is too simplistic to reduce what is a continuum of risk to absolute categorical distinctions, eg. between a “serious risk” and “no risk” or a “serious risk” and “any other kind of risk”.
To distill Michael’s point – if APEC is a major security risk, then why host it in the middle of Australia’s most heavily populated centre?
Y’all note that Hilton bombing mentioned on this thread just killed citizens going about their jobs, regardless of whether it was aimed at CHOGM or not.
So to return to my original point, if citizens could be put at danger by this event, let’s see something in return for the risk analysis run and the money spent without our input.
Can anyone tell me when it was normal to have snipers trained on the citizenry in Sydney? And are they Australian or US marksmen?
The apologists for the oppression currently being visited on Sydney residents trouble me deeply, what were similar saying in Berlin in 1939?
I just hope to heaven that some young kid isnt killed by some other kid in a police uniform this weekend.
On of my young cousins is a copper on duty and other cousins and friends are heading out to protest, will you all feel comfortable if the spectacle you’re all looking for turns out to be some families tragedy?
Nabokov: in other words: “Where’s my elephant?!”
Am thinking about having a squiz tomorrow, and maybe kibitz a bit at the rally, but I’m otherwise pretty unimpressed with the whole venture, and I’d like to echo the condemnation of most rallys these days; they really are tired and predictable — dissent at it’s dullest. I got no great ideas to jazz them up, just sayin.
I certainly will not be – which is why I’m suggesting all parties concerned get a lot more creative, lateral and thoughtful about what they all want to achieve out of this ritualised piece of global/media theatre.
Maybe they all should get together and pony up for a team ofTrusted Intermediaries.
Very deep, Mary. Very deep indeed.
You must have thought about that a lot before you commented.
You worked out what we all know. Well done.
But Russia, though? Is it not also a violent country and state?
Or China? Surely its record is not unblemished?
Or Vietnam. Well perhaps not, though Down and Out in Saigon might beg to differ with us on that point.
And you’ve trolled the streets of Mexico, have you, and concluded that it is not a violent country? Well done, although millions of its citizens might disagree with you.
Then again Indonesia. Much as I love them I can’t ignore the fact that from time to time they indulge in a bit of inter-racial violence and ethnic cleansing.
Shall I go on? There is Thailand, the Land of Smiles, to consider. Not all sweetness and light there I’m afraid.
and so on.
Thank you for your comment. As Geoprge Bernard Shaw said to the Prince of Wales (or was it Oscar Wilde?) you are a golden shaft of light when all around is darkness.
I’m not claiming any particular powers of prescience for thinking to myself earlier, GregM, that you’d probably respond like that.
I didn’t address my earlier warning not to personalise comments to anyone in particular, but the next person who does has made their last comment on this thread.
If it can lurch through Horse Guards Parade, why not outside that clusterfuck of nun titfers at Bennelong Point?
A slightly oblique comment – there is no reason that businesses inside the fence should necessarily bear a financial burden from being inside the fence as opposed to being outside it. If the “country as a whole” is a beneficiary (in whatever sense one wishes to consider) of APEC, then the country should bear the costs. (It might be difficult to untangle the costs.)
To distill Michael’s point – if APEC is a major security risk, then why host it in the middle of Australia’s most heavily populated centre?
Come on Nabs. Usually you’re a sensible lad. So if not Sydney, where?
We’ve already excluded Canberra- not enough beds
Melbourne? And see Peter Costello in a terminal smirk. Not a chance that our Beloved and Respected Leader would ever let that happen.
Brisbane? And see his secret love child reap the glory? I don’t think so.
Perth? A possibility, but it’s hard enough keeping them in the federation without giving them ideas that they are the capital of it.
Adelaide? The dangers of that, with its extraordinary psychopathy, have been well explored on the Pandas thread. Far too dangerous.
Hobart? See Canberra, above.
It just had to be Sydney. Destiny’s call.
Honestly Mark, how else could one respond but with Oscar Wilde’s response to the death of Little Dorrit?
Whatever, GregM. I’m tired. People should cut out the snark. There’s no need to condescend to others.
As has already been pointed out here, they could book Hayman Island for a week and handle all security concerns for a tenth of the cost all up.
And where is it written in stone that APEC meetings have to happen in major metropoli? The real networking happens at places like Davos anyway. And on the ski slopes well away from walls with ears. If the DSD hasn’t throughly bugged all the key Sydney hotels (and upmarket brothels) housing and servicing a plethora of APEC advisors and fixers, then they’re not really doing their job are they?
It’s pure theatre at every level from Dubya and Howard waving on a boat at the media on other boats to protestors borrowing a lighter off the media to fire up a effigy.
So if yer gonna stage such a show in a big city, then at least give us our money’s worth in terms of a world class global spectacle.
Didn’t the Malaysians do it at a golf resort somewhere? Not in downtown Kuala Lumpur that’s for sure.
Graham Bell, I think I’d have had fun in Spain in 1978. Alas, born in 1980, I couldn’t make it.
Nabakov, I reckon Guy Debord would have had less to say about the spectacle of APEC and more to say about the state of separation of modern industrial society demonstrated by it. What’s more separating than a big fence?
I’m going to the wedding of two very good friends, otherwise I’d definitely be front-and-centre for the Ceremonial Closing Hosing Of The Mob, so Leniad, say hello to the rabble for me.
Yeah, and F/A-18s. Wheeee!
For some reason now, I’m reminded of Denis Healy’s great comment about The Bilderberg Group gabfests – “They’re not secret, they’re private.”
Whereas what is APEC exactly?
All the powerbrokers from G30 members with nice weather having a great junket?
An Anglo-Asian meeting of minds across the Pacific?
A “screw the EU” slumber party?
A “what the fuck are we all gonna do about China and India” coffee klatch?
A “let’s collectively bargain with the US over current and potential lily pad rentals” forum.
A “cheap labour vs surplus capital and high end markets” swap meet?
A “let’s stop mad bastards from blowing us up” huddle?
“We really need and really soon more communication cables across the world’s biggest ocean. Who amongst us can we trust to maintain their physical and dataload integrity?”
“Can we all finally agree on ISO standards for our increasingly integrated manufacturing and TDL supply chains.”
“So we are all agreed then that for the next APEC summit, wherever it will be, it won’t be Port Morseby.”
All these issues are already being dealt with behind the scenes by a thicket of very smart men and women across all the OECD and OECD cadet branch countries and organisations who will thrive on and drive on these points well beyond the elected lifespan of the APEC lead singers.
APEC is basically kabuki, wayang kulit, Hollywood, spinning a yarn, roi nuoc. Thick faces all round. So what the fuck, let’s just put on a good show anyway.
Seeing The Cage around city streets was weird and sad enough, but walking the length of the fence cutting through the heart of the beautiful Botanic Gardens was really disturbing.
Nobody around at all, just this huge fence snaking down through the trees. A few confused possums.
Some of my photos of the Gardens fence are up here :
The Orstrahyun
BTW, I overheard some of the blokes putting up the last section of the fence down near the Opera House. Here’s a short rough version of the conversation :
“This shit (fencing) must be worth a packet.”
“It is, mate. Heaps.”
“Someone should buy it all up when it’s over. You know, recycle it.”
“Don’t think so. They said they’re keeping it for next time.”
Next time? What next time is that?
Caging Lakemba?
The Lord Forrest Hotel in Bunbury for instance.
Frank, I hear you. It’s shoelicking dictator welcoming no I don’t mind fences and being treated like a criminal or it’s Chaser. Which box is the Australian behind?
The Chaser fiasco demonstrates the most serious shortcoming of APEC security.
There should have been a complete lockdown on all satire.
Anyone who had a record of making a joke about Howard, Bush, the War on Terrrrrrr, Mission Accomplished, and Known Knowns should have been placed under control orders and told in no uncertain terms to wipe the smirks off their faces.
Why, oh why, are our security arrangements so lax?
It’s because TEH LEFTISTS have made patriots frightened of being laughed at, isn’t it?
are the police etc. Boys Playing With Toys??
Well, that’s one take.
But there are other boys, playing with other toys. Every now and then they play a little prank. Like, they might think it’s real fun to leave a truck outside a nightclub in some like cool South-east Asian holiday beach resort. Far out, man. Or, goody goody they might make some really cool backpacks and all go for a ride on an underground railway in Europe somewhere.
Or maybe they might really get stoked by leaving their backpacks on trains near the main city rail hub, in Madrid? Golly, you never know: hey it sounds really wacky, but could they get the idea of mixing stuff out of drink bottles in the toilet of a big plane in mid-Atlantic??? Or setting fire to their sneakers? Boys will be boys, eh?
Or they might think up some really cool use for a mobile, golly gosh.
Crazy kids – just skate-boarders with different toys, eh? And you old dudes just don’t GET IT, do you? They’re only having fun!! Chill out, they’re just young and restless. They’ll settle down. They’re just young kids.
Just “boys playing with their toys”.
cheerio
I’d strongly suggest to anyone who is staying in Sydney this weekend to go down to the Quay and to the Botanical Gardens and take a close look at the fence and think about what it means for this city and this country.
Nabs – here’s your elephant.
So it’s going to be a permanant fixture, then?
If not, and it gets pulled down next week then it doesn’t mean very much at all to Sydney or the country. Just that the caravan has moved on, leaving the dogs barking, as they do.
Went out on the piss last night and missed the train to Sydney this morning by 5 minutes. Really annoyed I’m not going to get down to Sydney and see all this and that I blew money on the train ticket. And that I won’t be at the APEC demo.
Still, what’s going to happen to JWH’s electoral chances if the magistrate gives the Chaser a disproportionate sentence in the middle of the campaign? It doesn’t look good for Ratty.
I heard a Sydney resident yesterday on radio comparing the fence to the Berlin Wall. I was lucky enough to see the Wall and Checkpoint Charlie. While the Wall was a permanent fixture, there are obviously parallels seen by many.
So now we need fences, snipers, helicopters, water cannon and police who can’t read – The Chaser stated on their “passes” that who they were and what they were up to.
Amazing how much police state apparatus and behaviour we need to protect our freedom, our liberty and our leaders. Interesting photos from the Age [link]
Now the NSW police reckon the Chaser crew could have been gunned down by snipers. It would be interesting to know the snipers’ operational instructions, not to mention those of the machine gun crews in the choppers, but I’m sure we can’t be told for ’security reasons’.
While I think The Chaser’s prank was hilarious, it does put our keyboard revolutionaries in a bit of a quandry. For you see, The Chasers jollies will only lead to INCREASED security.
Personally, the whingers can just go and get stuffed; like all provincial bogans.
Hu Jiantao invites
Prime MinisterOpposition Leader Kevin Rudd to the Olympics.Dubya thanks his Austrian hosts.
This just gets better and better.
http://www.abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=3569602
This must have been Howard’s finest moment. It’s sure to raise his rating prospects by a couple of points next week.
Wake up, Austria!
Our LP Humanities “scholars” will no doubt sneer at Rudd’s “elitist” bilingualism insisting he could have relied on translations.
Shut up John.
Oops, sorry, there was meant to be more than mere abuse in that comment. But now that I see it I think I’ll take whatever comments-policy-violation penalty I’m given. It looks nice.
We
AustriansAustralians have been one of the few Europeancountriescolonies to support the illegal Iraq War, anyone in the US will tell you.We have slavlishly endorsed every bit of US propaganda and flip flopping along the way (WMD, Saddam’s a bad guy, regime change, democracy etc). Off course George likes us. Who cares about minor details about which continent we belong to or whether we are gathered to talk about oil (OPEC) or non-action on climate change (APEC) for election profile?
Actually, I think it was a Freudian slip – about the oil.
KRudd’s mild and pleasant exchanges with Bush are understandable politically, but maybe Latham’s assessment of Bush was more accurate.
Yeah shut up John.
The blogs are very funny today, I have done a lot of lolling.
Must be the Chaser stunt, Bush’s speech defects, Alex and the Panda, whatever.
Something is changing, and I like it.
Nothing personally abusive about “shut up John” as far as I can see. John hasn’t become a synonym for “dickhead” quite yet.
Shut up John.
Speaking of the Chaser, here are trheir “Fake Security Passes”
http://www.news.com.au/gallery/0,23607,5025515-5007150,00.html
If the cops couldn’t see that, the system must be a joke, also they aren’t even told when motorcades are coming through.
Ahh, the NSW Police are at their finest again.
Perhaps Mr Bush was hinting that the Austrian PM should seek Anschluss with the United States.
Historical note: Anschluss became a fait accompli for Austria in 1938 when it became clear that the Austrian people were intending to return a government commited to independence from Germany.
Can there be any doubt that Mr Bush, as a keen student of history, is all over the Anschluss story?
Silkworm, not sure if your transcript has a video link but just in case it is also here.
The problem with maps.
“Dubya thanks his Austrian hosts.”
Meh. Jim Cairns, when he was Deputy PM, was visting somewhere in 1975. At an official reception, not only was he called Austrian, they even played some Viennese waltzes to make him feel at home.
There are good reasons why it should be in Sydney.
Those who say you can’t have a one-off global function in a global city are conceding defeat to the terrorists.
And the APEC SEcurity stuff ups continue.
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/news/national/rudds-men-issued-police-passes-in-error/2007/09/06/1188783408960.html
Metafilter’s view
Steve,
one of the metafilter’s comments sums up the poor security, why didn’t the police have a list of Licence plate detgails of all vehicles in the motorcade and just cross-checked the details. Also the “Motorbike” didn’t even look like a police one either.
I awlays have described “Police Intelligence” as an oxymoron.
Frank, just heard Ten News say that the Chaser has been involved in another stunt at APEC.
I know that at Brisbane airport they have parking areas with the technology to read numberplates as a vehicle enters the carpark.
WA Police have similar technology linked to a laptop with access to the police database called ARGUS.
Photo and info here from a radio scanning forum
http://warsug.info/viewtopic.php?t=3006&sid=cbbac8ecafe5ca94e96c111540b9d817
Yes, I think the comment on Metafilter was spot on.
Yep, this time using Cardboard Cutouts of a motorcade.
http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/chaser-does-it-again/2007/09/07/1188783454020.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap1
while we’re on OPEC/APEC style verbal confusions…
“Anschluss became a fait accompli for Austria in 1938…”
I’m kinda tired, and I initially read it as “fiat accompli.”
Actually kind of a nifty neologism, with all sorts of political implications…
Yeah, anyone concerned about needlessly exposing the public to danger from terrorism is obviously running up the white flag.
Only by exposing ourselves to danger do we show ourselves worthy soldiers of TWAT.
Onya Sydney-siders, you’re real Austrians!
Liam:
1978 in Spain saw decades of pent-up political feelings released and so much graffiti went up that buying shares in a paint company would have been a wise financial move. There were Anachists, Falangists and every other -ist you could imagine. Eventually, it all settled down …. and today Spain is prosperous, dynamic and a real beacon of democracy [a real one, not a pretend one].
A quarter of a century hence, will APEC in Sydney be seen as a watershed – whether good or evil – or forgotten as irrelevant?
Sydney has had much experience hosting majore events.
Maybe we Austrians could bid for the next Winter Olympics.
Must admit to laughing a few minutes ago when the NSW police commissioner used the same phrase on teh CH7 news.
Actually I reckon the best way of stuffing up the so-called APEC laws is to send in a group of under 10’s into the restricted zone riding toy police cars etc. Police would be unable to arrest them as the minimum age for Criminal responsability is 10 years of age.
Do not underestimate the political significance of the Chaser stunt. APEC was supposed to be Howard’s opportunity to shine amongst world leaders, to show the voters he is a world leader.
But the Chaser boys have turned APEC into a giant piss take. Howard’s show piece is now an object of ridicule. By extension, so is he.
Or Vietnam. Well perhaps not, though Down and Out in Saigon might beg to differ with us on that point.
This is a little bit off-topic, (and a little late for the thread) but GregM: where in god’s green earth have I defended that country’s human rights record, on this thread or elsewhere? Try hitting the link next to my name. It’s 6 months old, but it has quite a shot of the result of police brutality, Vietnam style. (Warning: contains blood. May be upsetting for some viewers..)
I hear and heed Mark’s injunction against abusing fellow posters, but sometimes I wonder what some of them were doing during their reading comprehension classes at school.
Katz, I really think that the difference between the Sydney olympics and the Sydney APEC is so stark, it will be lost on nobody except diehard people who are blind because they don’t want to see.
Amazing how one major event can be seen as successful while the other is laughed at and ridiculed because there is no point to counter the sacrifices the locals are being asked to endure.
Excluding the locals wherever possible is never a smart political move but the Feds have lost touch with all reality and this whole exercise is further proof of what lame ducks they are now.
While Laura Bush is out of town, due apparently to a pinched nerve, President Goofball is using the opportunity to have a bit on the side.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/05/AR2007090502416.html
They should do a musical act together. She can play hymns on the piano, and he can play the buffoon. Howard can point to the exit.
Silkworm:
Not without an AWA he can’t! One that has a clause where he signs away his right to lower his arm from time to time …. and a few similar clauses.
Shock Report!! Sauce-wielding man held in APEC fracas:
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,22378522-21703,00.html
Did I mention shock?
Oh, and here’s a picture of the
terroristsauce-wielding man being arrested: http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/imagedata/0,,5645333,00.jpgQuelle horreur! Non?
So, what are these right-wing loonies protesting about? Not getting enough airtime on TV declaring their love for a war criminal?
Yes, silky, I thought that was particularly post-modern of them. I think they’re protesting about the lack of 15 seconds of fame and sauce-wielders hogging the airwaves, or something …
You misread my post, Down and Out. What I said was that Mary and I could agree that Vietnam’s record was unblemished, though you might differ with us on that. God, it’s difficult doing irony. It is so easily misunderstood.
Silkworm:
Well, there are some people who genuinely believe the sun and moon shine out of President Air-Guard-AWOL’s fundamental orifice. They are entitled to hold and express that point-of-view however much many disagree with them ….
HOWEVER, I have been rather suspicious of such groups ever since I came up against well-organized small gangs of renegade ex-servicemen whose sole purpose was to trumpet and to stictly enforce the political-party official line for a mob of gangplank-dodgers.
It is a suspicion that was hardened, some years ago in Sydney, when I accidently came across a small group of long-haired scruffy “contractors”[?] being given last-minute riding instructions before going off to a demonstration. Despite their appearance, they weren’t being sent there to make the demonstration a success! Wonder if agents provocateur have to sign AWAs these days and wonder how much they get paid?
Bruce Schneier, who ideas on security make far more sense that a gaggle of paranoid guvmint idiots, takes great delight in the Chaser’s stunt.
“We didn’t want President Bush to come to Australia and think the only people who get out of bed are these people in opposition (to him).”
These mugs are completely ‘off message’ and predatory. It is the left wing, dole bludging, terrist luvin, long haired, union stooge, feral types, who are so lazy, they don’t “get out of bed” .
‘Bed’ is, sacred, left wing ground….. for Che’s sake!
They’re going to have to do better than that if they’re going to ‘ketch-up’ with the sauce wielders, frankly I don’t think they can cut the mustard.
And in the Sir! section of the West, a satire loving reading finds his limits:
Looks like it is all going quietly so far.
No, a major purpose of terrorism is to interrupt normal international relations. If we do indeed back down from holding events like this in the most appropriate location, it is giving the terrorists a victory. This winds up increasing the risk of terrorism because it shows that their actions pay off. It’s the same reason why you don’t negotiate with terrorists even if it means they will kill a hostage.
No that’s not right. Police can arrest 7 year olds in NSW… Under 14s are harder to prosecute, but not impossible.
Now that we’ve seen the violence dealt out by the police on the commercial (!!)and ABC news, when will the prosecutions be announced? The video evidenc eis clear, for even the most one-eyed. Four cops holding a bloke on the ground who wasn’t strigglunbg while a fifth pummelled him with at least half a doz left & rights to the stomach before the vison finished. In another four (!? again) walking a bloke towards the vans, two on each arm, again no resistance or struggles and two more coppers suddenly go for his head, punching and then bending it downwards as if trying to rip it off his shoulders whle the colleagues hold his trunk back – maybe they get paid per body part?
Oh yeah, and the news phtographer flung through the air to land on her back “she wasn’t injured” the Channel 7 reporter helpfully opined.
Where is Chav?
Video of ABC Coverage of Protest – looks fairly even handed, unlike Ch 9’s which concentrated on the arrests.
http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/200709/r174999_664086.asx
Oh and it seems several police dsobeyed operational orders by not wearing their ID Badges, therby not being able to be identified. This could of been avoided if the NSW Police adopted the WA Police Uniforrm which has the officer’s name and regimental embroided onto their uniforms.
http://www.police.wa.gov.au/Portals/11/Images/WAPolice/Internal/officers1_b.jpg
Early in the thread, Mr Denmore said:
and GregM replied:
However, Wikipedia* says:
In which case, the term fascism as applied to APEC seems, arguably, admissible. But Wikipedia goes on to say:
So, arguably, many of the elements thought to comprise the basis of fascism are apparent in greater or lesser degrees at APEC. So whilst what’s happening is perhaps not fascist, it certainly appears to be sailing close to the wind.
I didn’t even set out to post, but I think that on reflection, GregM’s out-of-hand dismissal of Mr Denmore’s comment is incorrect. Mr Denmore’s point certainly withstands some limited scrutiny.
* Naughtily using Wikipedia as a primary reference, but the definition checks out. Far more chilling perspective at http://www.rense.com/general37/char.htm where our current political climate meets many of the criteria listed.
Here I am!
What a great demo! I’d say 8,000 although being unfamiliar with topgraphy makes it harder to estimate. Was nice to be treated to the sight of the shiny black watercannon and the Riot Squad vans tearing past us before the start of the rally. Quite scary the first time, but after the third or fourth time it just became funny.
Overall a great success! Big, loud, and enthusiastic defiance of the government, police and media scaremongering.
Left vs Right, score: One, nil.
Chav.
New chant.
Austria out of OPEC.
Loved it.
The TV coverage I saw tended to focus on the “flower children” and other nutter types. More or less making out that “protest” at APEC was a sane thing to do.
Not a mention on my TV of any “cause” being protested, it was all about the level of violence, or the lack of it.
Good to see the arrests were conducted in a robust manner. If I was a copper the criminal throwing the darts wouldn’t be throwing any more with that arm, at least not for as long as it takes forearm bones to knit.
I live in the inner city and the sound of helicopters has been constant all week, even in the middle of the night. We went away for 24 hours on the public holiday and the first thing I heard when I stepped out of the car when we got back was the sound of a helicopter. I can hear them now as I type this.
We visited a friend on the North Shore this morning and drove back across the Bridge and through the city. I thought we’d try and get close to the fence to see it, but all streets across the city were blocked by police until we’d got almost as far as the Town Hall – about two kilometres from the Quay. When we tried to turn left at George St at the Queen Victoria Building, the policeman stationed there came over, motioned for us to put down the window and asked why we wanted to drive down there. I wish I’d had the sense to say “Because we want to” but instead I abandoned that idea, drove straight ahead and left the city behind. It’s intimidating to be asked to justify what you’re doing when you’re nowhere near what they’re supposedly protecting – and why did they spend all that money on the fence if they were going to be trying to prevent citizens from even getting within a kilometre of it.
The Other Mark, it would be helpful, not to mention honest, to provide the whole quote from which you base your argument. Otherwise it is meaningless.
Chav, welcome back. I am glad you had a great time. Yes it was a great success for the right to dissent. Well done. BTW you weren’t the person who got arrested for using his body as a billboard with a bit of strategically placed aluminium foil to protect his old feller from the chill, were you?
But why did he use so much more foil than was necessary?
But, not enough snow due to climate change.
Maybe we could have a water luge a water bob sled and water skiing Olympics instead? Oh, but not enough water either.
So how about at the sea side, say Bondi? And we could shift the Sydney Wall there so it will be ready and useful for the police state to stop all those peaceful street marchers from exercising their democratic right to protest and embarass the government.
Howard and Downer are now trying to spin around APEC’s big achievement as being a major outcome on climate change. I am afraid that the Ministry of Propaganda can’t disguise the fact that a lame statement devoid of commitments to any targets is a load of piss and wind. Love the rhetoric about “international agreement” – after Howard & assorted cronies have spent so much time attempting to subvert and derail the Kyoto Agreement.
Another rabbit dead on arrival.
The Kyoto agreement is a joke.
Why would anybody take it seriously?
It doesn’t include China at all.
Any credible agreement MUST include the whole world, or at least the whole industrialised/industrialising world.
I think maybe you reading from Howard’s shit sheet on climate change? This is a red herring.
China has signed and ratified Kyoto, unlike Australia which still refuses to ratify.
The Chinese are actually taking much more serious action on climate change than Australia or the US, even though there emissions have increased due to building coal fired power stations (that burn Australian coal!!!).
* China’s energy intensity – measured as energy consumption per unit of GDP – was lowered by 47 per cent between 1991 and 2005; from 1950 to 2002, China’s carbon dioxide emissions from fossil sources accounted for only 9.33% of the global total in the same period, and in 2004, its per-capita emission of carbon dioxide from fossil sources was 3.65 tons, which is 87% of the world average and 33 per cent of that of Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development countries.
* In June of 2007, China unveiled a 62-page climate change plan and promised to put climate change at the heart of its energy policies but insisted that developed countries had an “unshirkable responsibilityâ€? to take the lead on cutting greenhouse gas emissions and that the “common but differentiated responsibility” principle, as agreed up in the UNFCCC should be applied.
The post Kyoto international agreement to be formulated for 2012 onwards obviously must include all countries, including China.
Nice try, give us another line from Howard’s shit sheet.
Although I support the anti-terror measures on the whole (eg. snipers, helicopters, etc), it seems the police have used quite unnecessary force.
A critical article from Miranda Devine (hardly a lefty!): http://www.smh.com.au/news/opinion/miranda-devine/2007/09/08/1188783556546.html
And http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2007/09/08/1188783554824.html
The New Zealand experience with the Kyoto Protocol = not a happy one.
China stands to benefit handsomely.
Opening coal fird power stations as fast as they can be built = taking action on carbon emissions HOW exactly?
And PeterC just why is YOUR shit sheet any cleaner than Howard’s?
Australia has been negligent in further promoting the use of fossil fuels such as coal (for our own monetary gain) to countries like China and Japan, rather than demonstrating how a developed economy can be transitioned to zero emissions energy based on a mix of renewable energy, geothermal, biomass etc.
So negligent I think Howard should be prosecuted for it. We are the worst per capita emitter of GHG on the entire planet.
Howard says “do as I say, not as I do”.
Unlike Howard, I don’t have a shit sheet of misinformation. I have the hot acknowledged reality of climate change and drought and a genuine roadmap for a cleaner, greener and cooler future. One where we eventually don’t burn coal for electricity or pretend that we can make coal zero emissions against the basic laws of physics.
The Shock Doctrine
GregM said,
Here is the link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facism
No dishonesty intended, I just forgot to include it. It’s worth checking out the second link (http://www.rense.com/general37/char.htm) as well, as it has information about how the criteria were determined.
The man arrested for walking across the street at the wrong time.
More Apec Security blunders – Rudd’s car blocked at checkpoint.
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=294355
Actually it was the quote I made that I was looking for you to reproduce. I don’t doubt your sincerity and your good intentions (and your last post supports me in that) but it is my comment that you should reproduce.
This was not a security blunder. It sounds to me like a deliberate ploy by Howard-huggers amongst the NSW police to cause embarrassment to Mr Rudd.
The NSW police have really become politicized under the right-wing Italian Catholic Morris Iemma. The new commissioner, Scipione, has to go. He is a joke. There are several people under him that have to be given the boot too, but Scipione is protecting them. When Kevin comes to power in a few weeks time, he would do well to conduct an enquiry into the conduct of APEC security.
Here is another call for something similar.
http://sydney.indymedia.org.au/story/senior-police-scipione-cullen-risk-police-integrity-commission-over-apec-protest-permits
There especially needs to be an enquiry into the assault on a female photographer by a male constable shown several times on TV tonight.
PS – Andrew Scipione attends and is a member of Hillsong.
GregM,
OK, I see what you mean. I thought that Mr Denmore probably was not “resort[ing] to cheap slogans” since the comment on fascism seems fair to me, on reflection.
But I wasn’t trying to misrepresent your comment and I agree that I should have quoted the whole thing; sorry.
It does change the context a little but the context wasn’t really necessary for my point, which was only to express my surprise at how closely some of the recent APEC events (and some other recent government actions) could be considered fascistic.
I could probably have left out the quotes altogether except they’re the comments which lead me to poke around the intertubes in the first place.
cheers
Mark (T’other)
Everyone:
APEC is over, looks like the SCO won.
.
Oh dear!!!!!!!!!!
Ever read this myth?
The footage certainly shows her ending up on her back. However I shall reserve my view of the incident until I see footage of the 60 seconds immediately prior to that.
The police taking their badges off so they couldn’t be identified was a very nice touch.
Before anyone says that they had to do that because the badge pins could be used as weapons by protestors, these badges are velcroed to the uniforms (or not, as the case may be). Page 7 of today’s SMH has photos of 16 police who taken off their velcro badges, and one by the name of Carroll who had left his on.
I can’t wait to hear your objective pronouncement, satp. No doubt you will take into account the fact that the photographer was carrying her camera with both hands and was not in a position to physically assault the male officer, so there goes your provocation argument from the start.
However, you are right that the preceding seconds of the incident are important. This footage will be crucial to identify the officer involved as none of them were wearing their badges. This is against the law, and Scipione should be sacked for this.
Feminists should also be interested in the pushing incident as the offending officer was male and the victim was a female. This raises the question of why there were only male officers in the security lines. Was this another directive from Scipione?
I heard a radio report on Saturday about footage that shows a policeman repeatedly punching a demonstrator (in the head, I think) and Scipione came on immediately afterwards to say that he didn’t regret anything and that they’d warned the public that the police were going to be “very firm”.
I think he has horrible eyes.
Suz, the footage shows the demonstrator being pushed backward toward the ground, but being held up on both shoulders by two cops. A third cop, possibly the one who pushed the demonstrator to the ground, then moves in and bends down towards the demonstrator and inflicts left and right blows to the general stomach area of the demonstrator, though not with too much force I thought. It had the bizarre appearance of being staged for the camera. If it was staged, you have to ask, what message was it supposed to send?
Howard using Sydney to strut the APEC world stage has had a backlash. Further fallout about the Sydney Wall .
And then there is the brutal police behaviour.
Hmm. Seems like another giant miscalculation on Howard’s part. His ego and delusions of self-importance are what is really bringing him undone after all these years.
I do wonder about the lead-in and briefings the police received, as well as the way in which they were deployed, and how those things may have led to some inappropriate actions by framing the event as a confrontation in advance. The badge issue is a worry, because it suggests that they were expecting to be doing things that wouldn’t necessarily be accepted by the public. I wonder whether that was because of an implicit endorsement by the people in charge of erring on the side of ‘rigidity’ even where that meant crossing a line.
Staged or not I think it was supposed to send the same message that the government, police and media had been sending for the past few weeks… ‘Don’t demonstrate at APEC, or we will f%$k you up!’. Thankfully eight thousand or so people defied that threat and demonstrated anyway.
800 Chav.
Get a digital photo taken from an office building and start counting.
800 people..?!
(Paris Hilton accent) Are you , like, serious?! Like, whatever!
Hehehe..even the piggies said there were around 3000…
The politicians have been ripping the crap out of protestors for weeks now, saying there would *definitely* be significant violence. All kinds of names were hurled around. Now the protests have passed more or less peacefully (except the police), where is the apology for weeks of defaming?
Whatever happened to that dart that someone supposedly threw at a cop at the back of the protest? You’d think if it really existed the police would parade it in front of the cameras. What was the identity of the officer who got hit with the dart again?
Oh squeaking pip, foolish, fluid-based Tellurians. You call that a fence? Where is the 30,000 volts running through it? the poison gas sprayers? The tripwired cateagle pens? Why is it not festooned with the generative organs of anti-social miscreants as a festering decoration?
And what is this “temporary” excrement? In Boskone, “temporary” does not last for long. Permanent barriers is the only way to protect the juicy heart of metroplises for supreme leaders, flunkies, press attaches, floozies, flappers and spearcarriers to savor gilty pleasures without base lower orders smudging views, tracking earth on crimson carpets and requesting wheat-based products, secret ballots and dental services.
Permanent barriers should be 10,000 metres out as well to keep bantustans, club meds and gated gulags out of sightlines. Access by lower orders for service purposes only by tunnel.
It is all so much baby shoes for you Tellurians at this moment. But soon, so soon, Boskone will show you there is more than one way to skin a infant.
Until the next time you hear from me the next time, ten four vulcanised sap water fowl!
You’ll have to count them alright Chav because SATP’s blinker has slipped over his good eye.
You have to wonder if we have become a police state when even “yay authority” current affairs shows like Today Tonight run stories on police heavy handedness. Fortunately however none of the APEC leaders escaped so the Australian public remained safe.