While electric cars like the Tesla Roadster (earlier LP discussion) are the sexy end of environmentally-friendly electric transport, the numbers actually deployed on the road are tiny. But, here in China, there are 20 million electric vehicles in daily use:
You can buy them from the local Wal-Mart, or specialist bicycle dealers, for the equivalent of about $250-300. They travel at around 30 km/h, and the battery will go about 50 kilometres in one hit. And there’s no licence or registration required…in practice.
The story of why these things are so popular is a fascinating one in itself - regulations restricting petrol motorcycles, advances in battery technology, standardised componentry allowing cutthroat competition between hundreds of manufacturers, and non-enforcement of restrictions on speeds and maximum power. If you want the full story, try Johnathan Weinert’s blog, or the nifty summary on his academic page.
Would you ride to work on one of these?
Yeah, I think so, only I’d want it to have Australian safety standards rather than Chinese ones.
I’d probably want a solid battery like a NiMH or a NiCd rather than a lead-acid one, so that if I crashed it I wouldn’t add acid burns to the impact injuries, and I think some decent V-brakes or cable discs would be necessary to stop the extra weight.
Apart from that, cool.
For that run to the station, perfect. I would want 70kph though, for the longer run where you have to match the traffic speed for safety. Australia’s 250 watt limit is a bad joke.
Electric bikes are an excellent way to cut down on greenhouse gas emissions. When Rudd gets in, Australia will be forging closer links with China. It would be in our interest to take advantage of this growing relationship, and import lots of electric bikes from China. This will help us earn carbon credits when we sign up to Kyoto.
BilB: these things are treated like a bicycle, so you can ride like one.
As for the stupid 200 (not 250) watt limit, we should adopt the North American regulations of treating everything with a top speed of 32 km/h and with less than 500 watts of power as a bicycle.
You can buy 60 km/h electric scooters (which are treated as the equivalent of 50cc petrol scooters as far as registration goes) in Australia already, with faster ones to come - you can get them for around $3000. There is the high-end Vectrix, which will do 100 km/h, but it costs well over $10,000.
If you search sites like alibaba.com, some Chinese factories are claiming to be able to build a 100 km/h electric scooter (with a 7000 watt motor), but I’ve found no reports of anybody actually getting to ride one yet.
I want to know what Phil thinks of these Frankenstein monsters. I wouldn’t want to see these on bike paths but certainly think they have a place on the roads as a light alternative to motorcycles. I can’t imagine riding one unpowered would be too pleasant with the extra weight of the battery.
While I like cyclists - heck, I am one myself - the fact that cycling commuters are essentially irrelevant in most of Australia right now.
If e-bikes could take a significant number of cars off the road, I’d be prepared to live with them on bike paths.
That said, there’s certainly room for restricting them from recreational cycle paths on a case-by-case basis.
Where does the electricity come from?
Robert - avoid the cycle paths. Take your proud place on the road. OK - easier said than done in our metropolises. Out here in the boonies the road is all mine when wielding the Orbea, another of the compelling reasons to leave the city.
Another thing.
Instead of the 36V one, I’d want a 12V battery in order to power my la cucaracha horn, keep a little bar fridge chilling some drinks, and run the fully sick stereo I’d carry around in a sidecar.
A lowered sidecar, with neon lights illuminating from below, of course.
If e-bikes could take a significant number of cars off the road, I’d be prepared to live with them on bike paths.
Hopefully e-bikes would replace a significant number of cars on the road.
Would you ride to work on one of these?
I ride to work on a standard human-powered bicycle and think that any distance in time that’s 30 minutes or less is rideable for the average adult. I sometimes have to travel to a workplace that’s too far to cycle with my timetable (I’ve never done it but estimate about 90 minutes one way) and yes, I’d definitely consider an e-bike for that (it would still take an hour or so, I reckon.)
What a bunch of wishy washy lefty save the world tree huggers these LPers are eh? I’m a bike rider too and I’m pretty sure I’ve passed a few of these ridden by elderly chinese ladies.
Clearly these ones weren’t doing 30km/h.
Here in Canberra we have a very extensive cycle path network. I’d be happy to share the paths with these things if they were limited to 30km/h. If they were capable of going faster then people who don’t have the skills to ride at that speed will do so and be a danger. I don’t think pedestrians would have the same view however.
I’m not sure they would do well on the road. Take a look at the places where they are ridden on-road and there are large numbers of them riding at fairly low speed. Our V8 testosterone road-warrior culture does not take kindly to any on-road object that isn’t capable of at least 110+ km/h, regardless of how slowly the traffic might actually be moving.
If I’m gonna go to the trouble and expense of a convenience vehicle, I want it to keep the rain off, and I wanna be able to carry stuff, like suitcases.
Well here it is folks, the answer to red-blooded aussie greenie dreams: the all-electric, therefore potentaiily zero-emission, mini-TRUCK, payload 770 lbs., seats 2 and a bit.
Check it out… Coming this summer, Online finance available.
http://www.zapworld.com/files/zap-truck-xl/zaptruck-xl.jpg
You know you want one.
Local dealership anyone?
Well, I would rather crawl to work on my hands and knees than use public transport, so if petrol goes above $10 a litre then, but only then, will I buy an electric scooter. Because that’s when there’ll be lots of other people on bikes and scooters, and there’s safety in numbers. It’s not safe now.
How reliable is that Chinese scooter and how easy to get repaired? I rode my bike miles and miles everyday of the 3 years I lived in China and whenever I got a puncture there was, in sight, some kind of repair shop. Easy. One of the reasons not to ride a bike in Perth is punctures.
Pseudo-bikes, Aidan, for the pseudo-left. Obviously.
With Liam’s caveats, I’d be all for them. There are some cool alternatives to car ownership in the inner city cropping up, too, like those subscriber hybrid car fleets (curses, can’t remember the company name!). Basically, the company has set up small depots of these cars across the inner suburbs, and if you’re a member you just book a car whenever you need it and pay by the hour or daily. The fee is stupidly cheap, and covers all the fuel/maintenance/insurance stuff, so for people who drive relatively infrequently, its a fantastic solution.
Time was (in the 1990s) when it was not difficult for me to maintain a commuter cycling cruising speed of 30kmh on Brisbane’s thoroughfares, with scope to accelerate to as much as 60-70kmh when the situation required it (e.g. to make it out of Nathan Campus to the turnoff from Kessels Road heading westwards to Orange Grove Road heading northward before the westbound traffic caught up with me after the lights changed). I am now an older and slower man riding a heavier and slower bike (MTB rather than racer) and I could see myself availing myself of those Chinese choppers on my less energetic days. The 50km limit for each battery recharge is a bit of a problem though, especially if I wanted to use it for one of my weekend jaunts up country.
Solution: mountain bike with puncture-resistant tubes in knobbly tyres. In my experience nothing short of a direct thrust by a sharp metal nailhead or metal blade tip would get through.
They’re definitely already around in Australia. I’ve been overtaken by them riding in bike lanes a few times. They don’t really seem to go much faster than a bike rider (especially a fit one which I’m not), mainly there as assist for going up hills for those who have to worry about getting to work sweaty.
I don’t have any problems with them using bike lanes, unlike the motorcycles
which stray into the bike lanes and then get annoyed if you’re not pedalling fast
enough for them.
One of the reasons not to ride a bike in Perth is punctures.
I ride a non-mountain bike in Sydney and can’t remember the last time I had a puncture.
Paul, you can be sure I have the toughest tubes and the thickest tyres, and in between a layer of Kevlar, but my 10 minute ride to the beach gets me 2 or 3 punctures a year. And I’m hardly on the road! but I don’t think Freo Council has ever, ever swept a cyclepath.
The other thing that would suit me as a cyclist would be enough places to stop and shelter from rain. It rarely rains longer than 5-10 minutes in Perth and it would be nice to stop and wait and keep dry (why don’t bikes have proper mudguards anymore?). I see people commuting along the edge of the freeway, or along the edge of the river, and there is no shelter for miles.
Paul: range is still a problem for long-distance journeys. About the only one that comes close to what you want is the Optibike, but it’s very, very expensive.
Or maybe the Diavelo, which is only very expensive.
I picked up one of these things on eBay a few weeks ago as an experiment. It’s lucky to get 30kmh going downhill - on flat ground it gets 15-20kmh max. I also suspect the battery range is a bit less than the advertised 45km, although I haven’t tried to ride it until it’s flat.
It’s not bad for short, local trips where I don’t want to work up a sweat by riding a pushbike, but it would be hell of a lot more versatile if the motor was more powerful than 200 watts.
Russell, you could try importing some airless tyres. Apparently they’re quite good these days. No local bicycle dealers seem to stock them, though (at least not in Perth, as far as I’ve seen).
And for *very* short distances you could try the killacycle.
Killacycle: 990 lithium batteries between your legs? The inevitable fire would be spectacular, perhaps not so good for your reproductive efforts though.
You’re right, David.
If it were me, I’d buy two, string them together, and get them to pull me along like an electric Judah Ben-Hur.
We’ve beem through all this before with mopeds. I wonder what happened to them.
I do remember in my giant-thighed youth that they would bumble along bike trackth in Holland being a noisy, waspish nuisance.
In a way that I don’t fully understand, these leccy bikes can be used to replace pedalling or as effort amplifiers which only supply power in response to pedalling. I think they give you a better top speed, as your legs overcome the inertia. And it feels like having the wind behind you all the time.
Which would be very, very cool.
Mopeds disappeared because they weren’t that much cheaper than fully-fledged motorcycles (there’s no t that much difference between a moped and a fully-fledged scooter). In Asia, where they were mass produced up until a few years ago, they’ve been replaced with these which a) aren’t hydrocarbon-spewing two-strokes, b) are much cheaper to buy and run,
Some of the electric bikes do indeed act like that, particularly the more expensive models exported to Western countries. But here in China the pedals are almost vestigal on most of these, particularly the ones that look like mini-Vespas.
Robert,
What is the wattage of the blue bike above? And where do you find the time to do all of this (excellent) research?
There is definate hope for these in Australia, especially considering there are massive amounts of them flying around Newcastle. A given day on the street and you’ll see at least 20 or so.
Of course, Newcastle would be a natural starting point, it has more cyclists to begin with because its flat, less congested and more money conscious, but maybe they can spread out from there.
There is no mention in the post or any of the links concerning regenerative braking which would be of use for extending a bike’s range in stop-start heavy traffic conditions and on hilly terrain.
Are they all designed so that conventional friction brakes are exclusely used so as to not require the new owner to learn a different riding technique?
If you are paying many thousands of $s one would surely expect the design of regenerative braking to be included as it seems to be in latter day electric car designs.
If you’re worried about bike punctures in Vic you can join the RACV Bike Assist. For $22 you get 8 service calls a year and a free taxi ride if they can’t fix your bike on the spot.
Hmmn. Killacycle looks a tad overpowerd: [link]
These electric do dads actually get in the way of conventional bikes as they travel slower. Some are wider too - more like scooters - so they take up more room. I think they are better on the roads.
The reason so few people cycle around town is mainly safety related - more dedicated bike paths of high quality and utility would address this.
Damn straight Peterc. If you can’t get yourself killed on it, it’s not worth travelling on, I say.
Dear Santa…
But Liam, with those passenger-handles on the back, what’s Wendy going to strap across your engines?
Heh. I wondered about those pegs, it must be uncomfortable up there for the pillion passenger.
The Clarissa and Jennifer solution to carrying stuff on a bike might be worth considering for battery power, and who wouldn’t like to look like Steve McQueen?
Better that than Prince in Purple Rain.
Eh paisano, why you not-a get-a you-self a nice-a Vespa, eh? Much-a cleaner lines-a, much-a better a-style, than-a these a-stinky Chinese a-bikes-a. You go see my friend Pietro, he hook-a you up with-a nice one, give-a you good price.
Eh, here-a comes my old friend Pier Paolo Pasolini, in his convertible! That’s-a beautiful car, yes? Yes? I see you later, my friend. Don’t forget what I told you. You go and see Pietro, eh? Ciao!
Ay, Pier Paolo! Over here!
They’ve been around in Japan for about a decade. Despite Shimano, Japanese bikes have always been strictly basket-in-the-front functional (and drolly get called mamachari, meaning mother’s chariot. As a few here have suggested they’re pedal assist - just to get you to where you want to go with a similar effort to walking rather that pop the feet up on the handlebars. It’s a combo of lots of hills, lots of elderly people, and people not wanting to get their suits sweaty. The battery comes out and gets charged overnight.
Check ‘em out Offtime for Racing!
I’d stil go for the killacycle though
Dany, only the Vectrix does regenerative braking, as far as I know.
The general conclusion seems to be that it’s not worth the hassle on e-bikes and scooters.
BHOAPLC
There are always the love handles. Advisable to remove them before walking into a licenced establishment or club.
I still say a rickshaw pulled by a robot is the only way to go. Or, failing that, a pedicab driven by one’s wily houseboy. Traveling without keeping both hands free for one’s martini and one’s cigar, is hardly traveling at all. If one is to go to all the fuss and bother of this pedaling and steering business, why then, one may as well just stay at home, and translate Rilke.
Yeah, Anthony that’d work okay.
Sadly gone are the days when a lass could keep steady by jamming her fingers between my six-pack abs.
You there in the back row! Stop sniggering!
BilB: It’s probably a 250 watt jobby. Seriously, you should have a look at Weinert’s excellent summaries I linked to in the original story.
As to where I find the time, a combination of being rather good with Google, being in Beijing, and some of it was from my own past research when I was looking into transport options for myself,
Robert I don’t believe that that would be only 250 watts. I bought a 190 watt scooter for my daughter and it was totally gutless, it did not weigh a lot, and I doubt that it would have made 12kph. If you get close to another one see if you can pick out a make and model.
Bill: they’re all either 250, 350, or 500 watt, apparently, and there’s hundreds of different brands. Giant (big worldwide bicycle company) and Yamaha are the only name-brand makers I can see.
Again, part of the problem is the stupid regulations we have in Oz restricting these things to 200 watts - though I have a sneaking suspicion that many of the ones on Bbay are just advertised as 200 watt jobbies and are actually considerably more powerful. But the trouble with the Ebay is that it’s a bit of a lucky dip what you end up with.
I can see these things being tremendously popular with teenagers once word gets out.
Thanks Robert,
In our electronic age (it would be ridiculous to say that we are not in one) there is no need to limit the performance of these scooters by power. Very especially the speed of an electric scooter can be set within the control. It would be far better to have scooters powered at 1500 watts but speed set for 32kph. That offers a higher certainty of people keeping to the speed limit then having underpowered scooters that encourage people to speed downhill to have the power to get up the other side. This whole thing requires a campaign to set it right.
After thought. The higher powered motor provides a greater dynamic breaking effect so the controller can more actively manage downhill runs.
Bilb,
Your last comment defines regenerative braking.The usual limit to the amount of regenerative braking is the maximum allowable charging current for the battery as well as the capability of the motor( now acting as a generator) to supply this current.
Coming down the hill using RB helps supply the juice to go up the next one without resorting to excessive speed to conserve the potential energy provided by the height of the first hill.
Everyone:
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Excellent topic and comments [shall save this one on hard-drive