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	<title>Comments on: Innovation, creativity, culture and industry policy</title>
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	<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/09/18/innovation-creativity-culture-and-industry-policy/</link>
	<description>Life, Culture and Politics from BrisVegas</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 14 Feb 2012 10:53:13 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: John Greenfield</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/09/18/innovation-creativity-culture-and-industry-policy/#comment-65964</link>
		<dc:creator>John Greenfield</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Sep 2007 23:53:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/09/18/innovation-creativity-culture-and-industry-policy/#comment-65964</guid>
		<description>Alan Greenspan&#039;s new book is a welcome and long overdue correction of the mythology surrounding Labor in office from 1983-96. The deifying of Keating and silencing of Hawke is one of the more egregious misrepresentations of history in Australian history.

Greenspan has returned Hawke to his rightful place as Australia&#039;s greatest Prime Minister.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alan Greenspan&#8217;s new book is a welcome and long overdue correction of the mythology surrounding Labor in office from 1983-96. The deifying of Keating and silencing of Hawke is one of the more egregious misrepresentations of history in Australian history.</p>
<p>Greenspan has returned Hawke to his rightful place as Australia&#8217;s greatest Prime Minister.</p>
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		<title>By: Nabakov</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/09/18/innovation-creativity-culture-and-industry-policy/#comment-65963</link>
		<dc:creator>Nabakov</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Sep 2007 14:18:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/09/18/innovation-creativity-culture-and-industry-policy/#comment-65963</guid>
		<description>Thankee LP mod.

Here&#039;s your &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0zgQAp7EYw&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;bizzare personalised link&lt;/a&gt;.  Just like Glenn Gould only smaller and hairier.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thankee LP mod.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s your <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0zgQAp7EYw" rel="nofollow">bizzare personalised link</a>.  Just like Glenn Gould only smaller and hairier.</p>
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		<title>By: Nabakov</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/09/18/innovation-creativity-culture-and-industry-policy/#comment-65962</link>
		<dc:creator>Nabakov</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Sep 2007 13:41:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/09/18/innovation-creativity-culture-and-industry-policy/#comment-65962</guid>
		<description>Yo! Gorgeous! Yes, you the LP mod on duty. I think my last comment on this thread got akismetted. Care to have a fish around in the spam trap? There&#039;s a drink in it for you. Or at least an utterly bizzare personalised link.

Cheers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yo! Gorgeous! Yes, you the LP mod on duty. I think my last comment on this thread got akismetted. Care to have a fish around in the spam trap? There&#8217;s a drink in it for you. Or at least an utterly bizzare personalised link.</p>
<p>Cheers.</p>
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		<title>By: Nabakov</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/09/18/innovation-creativity-culture-and-industry-policy/#comment-65961</link>
		<dc:creator>Nabakov</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Sep 2007 13:02:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/09/18/innovation-creativity-culture-and-industry-policy/#comment-65961</guid>
		<description>Oh dear, I see young Strocchi&#039;s been at &quot;the singularity is coming, hooray!&quot; websites again. You really should lay off that stuff Jack, especially before bedtime, otherwise you&#039;ll just have more feverish dreams all night. Still maybe you could hook your AIs up with Birdy&#039;s Think Tank and who knows, diamond nano-rod fungibles in every sky home&#039;s pot?

And I mean really AIs? That&#039;s such such 20th century thinking. Big data in data out decision-making nodes? That&#039;s a command economy mindset. Ubicomp and self-correcting fuzzy logic networks is where it&#039;s at baby. The neu noosphere. You&#039;ll notice the most amazing and successful use of computing power ever, the internet, is the utter opposite of stabilised and centralised data control.

Meanwhile back in the reality-based community.

Actually your point about a brain gain is taken. But the way to achieve that these days is not through presenting a more insular and conservative society but through offering great quality of life, excellent access to hard and soft infrastructure from tech to cash and an open minded culturally and socially laissez faire environment.

Eg: most of the US&#039;s export income now comes from IP and the most of that is generated out of West and East Coast regions traditionally reviled as sinks of cultural and social iniquity by the kinda of social conversatives you seem to line up with. Or do you think it&#039;s just a complete accident of fate that the most bohemian city in America, San Francisco, hatched Silicon Valley in its armpit. Or that the world&#039;s entertainment industry is driven by the city of lost angels and flakes that found themselves.

Moving on, Crankynick and boredinhk raise excellent points about thinking of innovation beyond just whizzy science and tech stuff and about the need for venture capital.

Interesting to note here that Australia is now the world&#039;s fourth largest managed funds market thanks to some pretty innovative thinking by our fin services pros (and compulsory super) yet our VC market is still so weedy.

True, reforming limited liability laws for VC partnerships over the past few years has seen the likes of Starfish, GBS Ventures and SciVentures seeding our biotech sector a bit more effectively. And it&#039;s heartening to see the MTAA Super Fund getting in on the action. But we still don&#039;t have anything like CalPERS (in quality if not quantity) taking a controlled but stimulating punt on the future of our ideas and skills instead of our bricks and mortar.

Maybe it&#039;s a combination of historical and cultural factors (young, lacking in confidence, far away from home and nervous) and a small domestic market in which to trial stuff, but Australia&#039;s never quite adopted the risk taking mentality of the Yanks at their best. US VCs kinda like it if you&#039;ve failed once or twice - at least it shows you&#039;ll go for it and have learnt from experience. While at the same time our attempts at successful dirigisme never went much beyond basic infrastructure (Hello Snowy Mountain River Project).

So I reckon a big part of lifting our innovation game is educating everyone along the commercialisation pipeline from fund managers to R&amp;D bods to skills providers to bureaucrats to supporting service sectors (TDL, design, tech and prof services, etc) to get a lot more aware and funky/lateral about how it all knits together. And to take a bloody punt more often.

Here&#039;s&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.diird.vic.gov.au/corplivewr/_assets/main/lib60026/nia-proposal.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; something else to chew on&lt;/a&gt; to keep this thread alive. The meaty bits kick around page 16. The dotty arrow motif is kinda pointless but kute.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh dear, I see young Strocchi&#8217;s been at &#8220;the singularity is coming, hooray!&#8221; websites again. You really should lay off that stuff Jack, especially before bedtime, otherwise you&#8217;ll just have more feverish dreams all night. Still maybe you could hook your AIs up with Birdy&#8217;s Think Tank and who knows, diamond nano-rod fungibles in every sky home&#8217;s pot?</p>
<p>And I mean really AIs? That&#8217;s such such 20th century thinking. Big data in data out decision-making nodes? That&#8217;s a command economy mindset. Ubicomp and self-correcting fuzzy logic networks is where it&#8217;s at baby. The neu noosphere. You&#8217;ll notice the most amazing and successful use of computing power ever, the internet, is the utter opposite of stabilised and centralised data control.</p>
<p>Meanwhile back in the reality-based community.</p>
<p>Actually your point about a brain gain is taken. But the way to achieve that these days is not through presenting a more insular and conservative society but through offering great quality of life, excellent access to hard and soft infrastructure from tech to cash and an open minded culturally and socially laissez faire environment.</p>
<p>Eg: most of the US&#8217;s export income now comes from IP and the most of that is generated out of West and East Coast regions traditionally reviled as sinks of cultural and social iniquity by the kinda of social conversatives you seem to line up with. Or do you think it&#8217;s just a complete accident of fate that the most bohemian city in America, San Francisco, hatched Silicon Valley in its armpit. Or that the world&#8217;s entertainment industry is driven by the city of lost angels and flakes that found themselves.</p>
<p>Moving on, Crankynick and boredinhk raise excellent points about thinking of innovation beyond just whizzy science and tech stuff and about the need for venture capital.</p>
<p>Interesting to note here that Australia is now the world&#8217;s fourth largest managed funds market thanks to some pretty innovative thinking by our fin services pros (and compulsory super) yet our VC market is still so weedy.</p>
<p>True, reforming limited liability laws for VC partnerships over the past few years has seen the likes of Starfish, GBS Ventures and SciVentures seeding our biotech sector a bit more effectively. And it&#8217;s heartening to see the MTAA Super Fund getting in on the action. But we still don&#8217;t have anything like CalPERS (in quality if not quantity) taking a controlled but stimulating punt on the future of our ideas and skills instead of our bricks and mortar.</p>
<p>Maybe it&#8217;s a combination of historical and cultural factors (young, lacking in confidence, far away from home and nervous) and a small domestic market in which to trial stuff, but Australia&#8217;s never quite adopted the risk taking mentality of the Yanks at their best. US VCs kinda like it if you&#8217;ve failed once or twice &#8211; at least it shows you&#8217;ll go for it and have learnt from experience. While at the same time our attempts at successful dirigisme never went much beyond basic infrastructure (Hello Snowy Mountain River Project).</p>
<p>So I reckon a big part of lifting our innovation game is educating everyone along the commercialisation pipeline from fund managers to R&amp;D bods to skills providers to bureaucrats to supporting service sectors (TDL, design, tech and prof services, etc) to get a lot more aware and funky/lateral about how it all knits together. And to take a bloody punt more often.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s<a href="http://www.diird.vic.gov.au/corplivewr/_assets/main/lib60026/nia-proposal.pdf" rel="nofollow"> something else to chew on</a> to keep this thread alive. The meaty bits kick around page 16. The dotty arrow motif is kinda pointless but kute.</p>
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		<title>By: Mick Strummer</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/09/18/innovation-creativity-culture-and-industry-policy/#comment-65960</link>
		<dc:creator>Mick Strummer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Sep 2007 10:18:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/09/18/innovation-creativity-culture-and-industry-policy/#comment-65960</guid>
		<description>How could anybody ever take seriously the ideas of someone who expressed themselves thusly:&lt;blockquote&gt;...generate highly networked nodes of cultural and social production, circulation, transportation and transition...&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Bollocks. Statements like this are just weasel words that can mean whatever anyone wants them to mean.
Cheers...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How could anybody ever take seriously the ideas of someone who expressed themselves thusly:<br />
<blockquote>&#8230;generate highly networked nodes of cultural and social production, circulation, transportation and transition&#8230;</p></blockquote>
<p>Bollocks. Statements like this are just weasel words that can mean whatever anyone wants them to mean.<br />
Cheers&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: boredinHK</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/09/18/innovation-creativity-culture-and-industry-policy/#comment-65959</link>
		<dc:creator>boredinHK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Sep 2007 09:55:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/09/18/innovation-creativity-culture-and-industry-policy/#comment-65959</guid>
		<description>&quot;It’s all very well to be talking about the education system and preferred tendering and what-not, but the fundamental fact is that labs, computers, researchers and design and development cost money ...&quot;
 Lets try to think of it as a continuum perhaps ?
Researchers are generally post-doctural people and we need to keep them in Australia so suitable funding from any source would be welcome.
Venture capital is available in Australia - it just tends to be very commercially oriented and institutions like CSIRO and the Walter and Eliza Hall Institute appear to be struggling for funding for pure research.
 Thats apart from the drive to commercialise their efforts .
The idea I&#039;d like to see promoted is that funding education will lead to innovation and it will then be able to attract funding.I&#039;m not that bothered about whether it is for manufacturing in whatever form people choose to define it - it is all good - for services , IT, tourism, agriculture even education services.
What is a little disappointing is the apparent lack of interest in economics . It is the foundation of all our interactions and unfortunately many think analysing it or encouraging discussion about commercial matters  suggest only sympathy for greed and self interest .Even the discussion on Club Troppo was a bit limited and tends to be very dry reading as the participants routinely use too much jargon.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;It’s all very well to be talking about the education system and preferred tendering and what-not, but the fundamental fact is that labs, computers, researchers and design and development cost money &#8230;&#8221;<br />
 Lets try to think of it as a continuum perhaps ?<br />
Researchers are generally post-doctural people and we need to keep them in Australia so suitable funding from any source would be welcome.<br />
Venture capital is available in Australia &#8211; it just tends to be very commercially oriented and institutions like CSIRO and the Walter and Eliza Hall Institute appear to be struggling for funding for pure research.<br />
 Thats apart from the drive to commercialise their efforts .<br />
The idea I&#8217;d like to see promoted is that funding education will lead to innovation and it will then be able to attract funding.I&#8217;m not that bothered about whether it is for manufacturing in whatever form people choose to define it &#8211; it is all good &#8211; for services , IT, tourism, agriculture even education services.<br />
What is a little disappointing is the apparent lack of interest in economics . It is the foundation of all our interactions and unfortunately many think analysing it or encouraging discussion about commercial matters  suggest only sympathy for greed and self interest .Even the discussion on Club Troppo was a bit limited and tends to be very dry reading as the participants routinely use too much jargon.</p>
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		<title>By: crankynick</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/09/18/innovation-creativity-culture-and-industry-policy/#comment-65958</link>
		<dc:creator>crankynick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Sep 2007 02:09:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/09/18/innovation-creativity-culture-and-industry-policy/#comment-65958</guid>
		<description>The interesting this that neither side seems to be talking about is the availability of early stage venture capital and the role it plays in developing innovative industry.

It&#039;s all very well to be talking about the education system and preferred tendering and what-not, but the fundamental fact is that labs, computers, researchers and design and development cost money - and without venture capital funds that are prepared to tip a couple of million dollars into an early stage company and then &lt;b&gt;help manage the development of the product and business&lt;/b&gt;, many of them won&#039;t get much further than the laboratory bench or the CAD suite.

Australia doesn&#039;t have a particularly well developed venture capital sector, by most accounts - there&#039;s plenty of private equity cash sloshing about for later stage companies, but camparatively little money or expertise for early stage speculative investment.

The US, by comparison, has a large and mature venture capital sector (mostly by virtue of the size of the economy) - or, as an alternative model, Germany has had recent success in expanding the size of its life sciences industry, partly through the intervention of Government backed development banks (run on an aggressively commercial basism before anyone starts bleating about socialism and innefficiency).

I think it&#039;s interesting that most of the Australian discussion has centred around regulatory change, limited levels of direct government grant assistance and R&amp;D tax models - all of which are useful, but none of which provide the long term cash investment that innovative startups need to get through the early years.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The interesting this that neither side seems to be talking about is the availability of early stage venture capital and the role it plays in developing innovative industry.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s all very well to be talking about the education system and preferred tendering and what-not, but the fundamental fact is that labs, computers, researchers and design and development cost money &#8211; and without venture capital funds that are prepared to tip a couple of million dollars into an early stage company and then <b>help manage the development of the product and business</b>, many of them won&#8217;t get much further than the laboratory bench or the CAD suite.</p>
<p>Australia doesn&#8217;t have a particularly well developed venture capital sector, by most accounts &#8211; there&#8217;s plenty of private equity cash sloshing about for later stage companies, but camparatively little money or expertise for early stage speculative investment.</p>
<p>The US, by comparison, has a large and mature venture capital sector (mostly by virtue of the size of the economy) &#8211; or, as an alternative model, Germany has had recent success in expanding the size of its life sciences industry, partly through the intervention of Government backed development banks (run on an aggressively commercial basism before anyone starts bleating about socialism and innefficiency).</p>
<p>I think it&#8217;s interesting that most of the Australian discussion has centred around regulatory change, limited levels of direct government grant assistance and R&amp;D tax models &#8211; all of which are useful, but none of which provide the long term cash investment that innovative startups need to get through the early years.</p>
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		<title>By: Bingo Bango Boingo</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/09/18/innovation-creativity-culture-and-industry-policy/#comment-65957</link>
		<dc:creator>Bingo Bango Boingo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Sep 2007 01:39:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/09/18/innovation-creativity-culture-and-industry-policy/#comment-65957</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;We should also strip the negative gearing concession and capital gains tax concession for residential investment property. It just encourages unproductive speculation in real estate.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Yes Jack.  What this country really needs right now is housing-supply-killing tax policy.  Brilliant stuff, keep it up.

BBB</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>We should also strip the negative gearing concession and capital gains tax concession for residential investment property. It just encourages unproductive speculation in real estate.</p></blockquote>
<p>Yes Jack.  What this country really needs right now is housing-supply-killing tax policy.  Brilliant stuff, keep it up.</p>
<p>BBB</p>
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		<title>By: Danny</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/09/18/innovation-creativity-culture-and-industry-policy/#comment-65956</link>
		<dc:creator>Danny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Sep 2007 23:43:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/09/18/innovation-creativity-culture-and-industry-policy/#comment-65956</guid>
		<description>DITR: &quot;foreign companies can claim the full 175% tax break even if the Intellectual property is held offshore&quot;...

so if IBM, &#039;frinstance, develop an iGivaToss wimax gadget, (which implements government  of/by/for the iPeople according to the BigBrother model, and we get to toss a couple of iRep&#039;s from The_iHouse each week,) which also functions as the iNationalIDCard, with fingerprint recognition, for iCitizenServicesAccountAudit...

they&#039;ll do the research and testing in OZ, albeit with outsourced PRC engineers, where they get the australian taxpayer to pay for it via the tax break, and then score the AEC e-democracy tender with the  iGivaToss platform?

Sweet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DITR: &#8220;foreign companies can claim the full 175% tax break even if the Intellectual property is held offshore&#8221;&#8230;</p>
<p>so if IBM, &#8216;frinstance, develop an iGivaToss wimax gadget, (which implements government  of/by/for the iPeople according to the BigBrother model, and we get to toss a couple of iRep&#8217;s from The_iHouse each week,) which also functions as the iNationalIDCard, with fingerprint recognition, for iCitizenServicesAccountAudit&#8230;</p>
<p>they&#8217;ll do the research and testing in OZ, albeit with outsourced PRC engineers, where they get the australian taxpayer to pay for it via the tax break, and then score the AEC e-democracy tender with the  iGivaToss platform?</p>
<p>Sweet.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/09/18/innovation-creativity-culture-and-industry-policy/#comment-65955</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Sep 2007 15:55:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/09/18/innovation-creativity-culture-and-industry-policy/#comment-65955</guid>
		<description>If Cap&#039;n Jack decided to immigrate, on the other hand...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If Cap&#8217;n Jack decided to immigrate, on the other hand&#8230;</p>
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