http://larvatusprodeo.net/about-larvatus-prodeo/comments-policy/

This thread has suffered from a tone that some people are more empathetic/smarter/less racist because of their language skills.

No. That’s not been argued at all. Who has been arguing that language skills make people racist or not, and where?

The argument is that attempting to use someone’s name (even when it is difficult) is more respectful than not trying.

My original post states that the MSM is using pumpkin because they believe (whether it is true or not) that people will be more emotionally involved with ‘pumpkin’ than ‘Qian Xun Xue’.

Hell, I have my heart-strings pulled by ‘pumpkin’ more-so than ‘Qian Xun Xue’, precisly because I identify more strongly with the cute term of affection over the girls ACTUAL name.

Where in that is anyone being accused of racism because of their language skills? It’s not whether you can say Qian Xun Xue very well or not, it’s whether you even bother to try.

I’m sorry, but it annoys the hell out of me when arguments that have been laid down very clearly and concisely are reduced to such a racist/not-racist simplistic manner.

But I like having my hand on it.

It doesn’t make any difference how it started (I am sure you wouldn’t excuse the use of a term directed at other groups because of the original context). This thread has suffered from a tone that some people are more empathetic/smarter/less racist because of their language skills. People who are described as “rednecks” are regarded as none of those things. Consistency is the thing, unless you think all poor folks are stupid, insensitive and bigots.

please explain to me what I have done to deserve this outburst from Kim.

It’s not an outburst, GregM. You’ve kind of been acting like a sanctimonious d1ck, and Kim pulled you up on it.

But you live in a rich country. You can hold any opinion you like and force them on others without a thought of the consequences. Unfortunately they have to live with them.

I know you’re a nice guy, but you need to give this kind of pointless breatbeating a rest. I’ve been at the receiving end of it before (and I note that you were very good about it and apologised afterwards).

anthony: (and Mark and Jobby, too, sorry for getting sharp with you) Hmm, I can see that the way my earlier remark was phrased, being a little too aggressive and tart, would cause annoyance.

Cheers j_p_z. Thanks for acknowledging the mistake.

I understand your point of view. And I’ve lived with a number of Chinese students who’ve chosen anglo names solely to make it easier for themselves (some of these were actually pretty funny, there were twin girls that called themselves ‘Peppermint’ and ‘Coke’).

My point is that, in daily life at least, just the simple attempt to say someone’s (difficult) name denotes a lot more respect than not trying. The only time anyone really gets riled up is if they’re given a condescending nickname (in primary school it was ‘Charlie Chan’ or ‘Bruce Lee’). But a real nickname is very inclusive.

But as Graham Bell said above, “The mishandling of unfamiliar names in the formal setting of news media, on the other hand, is completely inexcusable.”

Just to clarify, I put the definition of â??redneckâ?? up because itâ??s a tad hypocritical of people …

Darlene, get your hand off it. J_P_Z was called a redneck because he said (to paraphrase): ‘If these funny named foreigners refuse to be anglicised then they can go back to where they came from’ (a position he has since retracted and stated that he was misunderstood because his comments were heavyhanded).

“Excuse me while I giggle. But anyone who has ever had anything to do with a collective, or been a member of one, knows perfectly well, unless none of their physical senses are operational, that there is always a kingpin, or two, in a collective, who are invariably male, except in all female collectives, which this one is far from being, but the main point stands.”

Males in a collective? Queenpins in a collective are difficult enough. Please use meeting procedure, people.

“I strongly suspect that Mark does not, like some jaded royal vizier, ‘look over these pages’ monotoring his female handmaidens like Kim! How freaking ridiculous!!! LOL!”

Crikey, a handmaiden? I can’t even sew.

Lynda Hopgood [11:38am 20thSept]:

Yeah. Thatâ??s pretty close â?¦. â??Châ??ien Hsun Hsuehâ?? for the Old Believers who still use Wade-Giles orthography
Graham Bell

It’s sort of close-ish, Graham. For example, ‘ch’ in English can be pronounced in a number of ways without changing its meaning. Specifically, the position of the tongue (at the front, middle, or back of the mouth) isn’t particularly important, most people would regard any difference as just regional accent variations on the same basic phonetic unit.

But in Mandarin it makes a big difference. Think of how different the (Pinyin) pronounciations of ‘j’, ‘t’, ‘q’, ‘ch’, ‘x’, ‘sh’, and ‘zh’ are to a Mandarin speaker, yet how difficult they are to both pronounce and distinguish for a (non-Mandarin speaking) native English speaker.

Like I said before, there really aren’t direct phonetic equivalents for many Mandarin sounds in standard English.

And there’s a good reason the Wade-Giles system went out of fashion. Pinyin is much more functional.

Hey Greg M, this is a collective dude

Excuse me while I giggle. But anyone who has ever had anything to do with a collective, or been a member of one, knows perfectly well, unless none of their physical senses are operational, that there is always a kingpin, or two, in a collective, who are invariably male, except in all female collectives, which this one is far from being, but the main point stands.