The punk legend John Lydon has lashed out at Sting, calling the Police frontman and his fellow band members “soggy old dead carcasses”.
As the Police reunion tour continues, it has been announced that the Sex Pistols will be performing three shows to mark the thirtieth anniversary of Never Mind the Bollocks Here’s the Sex Pistols. While the Police’s drummer, Stewart Copeland, had wanted his band to be part of the punk affray early in their career, the musical talents and interests of its members soon gave way to what guitarist Andy Summers describes in his book, One Train Later, as “a sound for which there is no previous formula, a space jam-meets-reggae-meets-Bartók college with blue-eyed soul vocals”. Although the Police undoubtedly had lots of young fans in their day, songs like “Every Breath You Take”, “Invisible Sun” and “Synchronicity II”, had an appeal beyond the youth market. For this reason, their reunion seems less incongruous than the kings of punk rock getting back together. A clip from Julien Temple’s film about the Pistols, The Filth and the Fury, features an interviewer pointing out after his aborted talk with the band that they’d left a trail of litter behind them, including booze bottles, cigarette butts and Clearasil boxes. Nevertheless, given the Pistols were such an important moment in the history of music, their gigs promise to be a great reminder of what they were about, and the milieu they emerged from. When the Pistols’ extraordinary frontman John Lydon aka Johnny Rotten pontificates during Temple’s film he demonstrates a greater awareness of the varied responses of the English working class to their plight (including apathy, violence, embracing racist political movements and the creation of punk) than any middle-class Marxist. Alas, the Pistols split up due to dodgy management, personality clashes, and a junkie bass player with a drug-fucked girlfriend. Of course, whether fans of the Sex Pistols will still be able to “pogo” without doing their backs in and spit without accidentally losing their false teeth remains to be seen. Lydon, with his sense of humour intact, perhaps forgot that he is not much younger than the nearly 56-year-old Sting when he claimed the Police are “soggy old dead carcasses” last week.
Apparently Police are playing like soggy old dead carcasses from what I’ve heard.
Glad I caught them in 1979 & 1980 when they were actually pretty good.
That’s no good.
Frankly, I like the Pistols and the Police.
However, I am not keen to fork out a fortune to go see the latter.
Seeing them in 79 and 80 would have been great.
I take maximun f**king offence at the jokes about our backs and teeth , the pogoing and spitting will be snot filled and wild.
Anyway I need to have a nap now and think about those far of days ….
Cup of tea for anyone… ?
Tee hee, as wild as the naps and cups of tea I bet.
I’d rather see Oysterhead.
I had to look up who Oysterhead are.
For those who, like me, think music begins and ends with Joni, Leonard and Bob, you can find out more about Oysterhead at the link below:
http://www.oysterhead.com/
Sorry, Darlene. Being too terse again; I didn’t even leave a link to explain. Oysterhead also has the fine, fine drumming of Stewart Copeland, and without the $99 to $250 price tags that The Police demand for their services at Suncorp Stadium. However, they’re one of those acts that only get together every couple of years, so I doubt I’ll see them live.
Been hearing only good things about the Police. As my brother-in-law put it - you won’t find a tighter band playing as many songs that everyone in the audience knows out there. They’re memory has suffered undeservedly much from the legacy of Sting.
Bit sad the Sex Pistols, I mean Iggy and the Stooges are a good decade their senior and if the Big Day Out two years ago was any measure - would knock them into a cocked hat.
Actually, has anyone had the chance to read Lydon’s No Irish, No Blacks, No Dogs ?
Any thoughts?
Re: Joni, Darlene. She has always stubbornly resisted my ken but she has a new one out next week (25th) and will prob be on eMusic which encourages me to persevere and give it a listen.
A long time ago, anthony, and it was a good read. Pity he’s become such a parody of himself.
But remember, punk only lasted 100 days in 1977 (in London at least). Until everybody learned how to play and got record deals.
Anyway, it originated in New York.
Wonder what Richard Hell’s doing these days?
And Joni’s lovely, although I have pretty lame feelings about the other two. Her latest inheritor is the most wonderful Regina Spektor.
I think it’s great. The sex pistols come on stage, play like crap, abuse people, take your money and leave.
Malcolm would love it.
Now, If I could get to see PIL play “Rise” live, I”d pay my money…….
Oh yes, Darin. I’d definitely pay for that…
What, no Van? No Bruce?
Still kicking myself for missing her recent gig in Brisbane, CK.
You could argue it originated in Motor City.
I actually did get to see PIL play “Rise” at The Palace. Sadly, they were Wobble-less by then.
Stewart Copeland is arguably the best percussionist to come out of the pop/rock genre. His soundtrack to the movie RumbleFish was stunning.
How many punks does it take to change a lightbulb?
None, ’cause punk never changed anything…
Real punks can’t spell cappuccino.
Best punk line I can think of… (attributed to the fictitious Terry Downe):
“If you were *really* punk, you would’ve thrown a *full* bottle.”
I just spent $250 buying a ticket for the Police concert at Suncorp Stadium, January ‘08. They better be bloody good!!
I’ve been a Copeland fan all my drumming life, so any project involving him is immediately brilliant, including Oysterhead.
As for Vicious, he’s a talentless hack who fronted the Punk equivelant of the Spice Girls. I remember seeing a documentary about the Pistols in which he unleased a salvo on the Police during an interview in the late 70’s. He’s always hated them - Jelousy no doubt.
Woah woah woah there Alex, buying into the Malcolm McLaren as svengali narrative there. Now I know they’d be pretty rubbish now but that’s no reason not to give the Sex Pistols their dues for some fabulous music and lyrics. No Feelings has a brilliant intro and it’s the much more the direct musical heir of Chuck Berry than say the Rolling Stones. Rhyming ‘Queen’ with ‘ain’t no human bein’” is hilarious. And you’ll find no angrier song than Liar.
CK - I thought he was dead but I just realised it was Johnny Thunders I was thinking of. Hooray!
“They’re memory has suffered undeservedly much from the legacy of Sting.”
That’s an interesting one. In what way? I quite like some of Sting’s solo stuff (e.g. Dream of the Blue Turtles).
“Re: Joni, Darlene. She has always stubbornly resisted my ken but she has a new one out next week (25th) and will prob be on eMusic which encourages me to persevere and give it a listen.”
Amanda, I would recommend going back to her live CD, Miles of Aisles, for a taster. Thanks for advising about her new stuff.
Thanks Down and Out. Yeah, the ticket prices for the Police are putting me off, plus the whole stadium experience thing doesn’t do it for me.
“I think it’s great. The sex pistols come on stage, play like crap, abuse people, take your money and leave.
Malcolm would love it.”
If Malcolm would love it, Rotten is going against everything he claimed to believe in, which is probably fine because he is much older now.
“Stewart Copeland is arguably the best percussionist to come out of the pop/rock genre. His soundtrack to the movie RumbleFish was stunning.”
Very talented chap, and his family (e.g. his late father Miles Copeland was a CIA man) are quite interesting folk.
“How many punks does it take to change a lightbulb?
None, ’cause punk never changed anything…”
Harsh, SG. I think that at least punk added something different to the charts back in the late 1970s. When “God Save the Queen” was number one in the UK (although apparently not allowed to be recognised as such), Hotel Bloody California was number 2.
“If you were *really* punk, you would’ve thrown a *full* bottle.�
Indeed, jpz, real punks would’ve thrown the whole slab.
“I just spent $250 buying a ticket for the Police concert at Suncorp Stadium, January ‘08. They better be bloody good!!”
Crikey, Alex, that’s a lot of moolah. They had better be bloody good.
“As for Vicious, he’s a talentless hack who fronted the Punk equivelant of the Spice Girls. I remember seeing a documentary about the Pistols in which he unleased a salvo on the Police during an interview in the late 70’s. He’s always hated them - Jelousy no doubt.”
Well, he was a talentless hack. I think the band recognised that. The Police kind of jumped on the punk bandwagon for a bit, but they were obviously too talented for the whole thing. Sting and Summers were particularly uninterested in it, although Copeland was keen. The Police always have had to wear the “fake punks” thing.
It’s worth remembering that Sid was a mere 21-years-old when he died.
For that matter, it’s also worth remembering that Nancy Spungen was a mere 20-years-old when she died.
You’d think the remaining Pistols would now appreciate that she a sick and troubled young woman (perhaps her connecting with Sid was a case of like attracting like).
$250!!! Bloody hell.
Led Zeppelin at the Memorial Drive tennis courts was $4.20 and we still had enough for the bus fare home.
We didn’t ‘ave much, but we was ‘appy then…
“Led Zeppelin at the Memorial Drive tennis courts was $4.20 and we still had enough for the bus fare home.
We didn’t ‘ave much, but we was ‘appy then…”
Tee hee, that’s very funny : )
That was in about 1972 wasn’t it?
I seem to recall paying approximately $27 to see Duran Duran in 1983.
Re: police and sting, i agree completely with anthony.
Actually i avoided the police for a very long time for exactly that reason. But i think Darlene’s right too - some sting stuff is pretty decent. I think maybe he suffers a bit from the legacy of Sting too, if that makes sense to anyone. A bit like Peter Gabriel?
So MG, are you referring to the whole Sting thing rather than just his music (e.g. his sometimes ponderous remarks in the 1980s about politics and Jung)?
For some reason my friends and I watched David Lynch’s Dune. In Sting’s defense his acting was no less over-the-top/wooden than anyone elses. It’s hard to make something decent out of lines like “All I can see… is an Atreides I want to kill”.
“It’s hard to make something decent out of lines like “All I can see… is an Atreides I want to killâ€?.”
Yes, that’s cracking dialogue. Actually, I was watching The Filth and the Fury on the weekend and there is an amusing section about “Who killed Bambi?” (see here for further information).
Sting was playing a member of a boy band called The Fantastic Blow Waves (or whatever). The Waves get picked up by a member of the Pistols and give him a really hard time. It ends with said Pistol basically saying, “Get out of my car, you c*nts”. It’s utterly ridiculous enough to be almost amusing. Lots of bad acting.
He got the Dune gig based on his performance in Quadrophenia.
If they play “Message in a Bottle” that’s enough reason to avoid the Police reunion tour.
He got the Dune gig based on his performance in Quadrophenia.
If they play “Message in a Bottle” that’s enough reason to avoid the Police reunion tour.
Sorry.
Yes, Sting’s movie career hasn’t exactly been cracking.
Messing in a Bottle isn’t that bad. My favourite Police song is probably “Wrapped around your finger” or “Invisible Sun”.
The dread words Atreides and Sting have been mentioned in conjunction, and therefore I am compelled to post this:
Arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!
Cheers, tigtog. I’d like to see Sting wear that down the local.
*snort* Cue variations on budgie smuggler jokes.
Darlene are you going to review the Joe Strummer documentary? I heard an interview with the doco maker on the radio. Sounded great.
“As for Vicious, he’s a talentless hack who fronted the Punk equivelant of the Spice Girls.”
Actually, of course, Johnny Rotten was the frontman, but anyway … give me Kenny Everett’s Sid Snot over Sid Vicious any day.
Sounds like a very good idea, Su. Yes, I will. The guy who made Strummer is Julien Temple (I wish I had heard the interview), the same guy who made The Great Rock and Roll Swindle and The Filth and the Fury.
Well spotted, Davey. Of course, some folks thought Sid should be the frontman. Not me; I lurve Lydon’s mad staring genius.
Exactly the Dream of the Blue Turtles. I mean it’s like the remilitarization of the Rhineland in 1936. It was popular at the time and you can argue the merits of it, but in it lay the the seeds of greater monstrosities to come. I basically see the Police as the Weimar Republic.
Anthony, Sting’s next album (Nothing Like the Sun) was even better. Lurved “Englishman in New York” and “Fragile”.
Please bear in mind that I am a middle-aged woman with no taste in music at all.
The Police were/are musical parasites and artifacts of the music industry.
They are Exhibit A in the case supporting the argument that rock music was exhausted by the end of the 1970s.
John Lydon should go on Mastermind and answer questions in the category of “The Bleeding Obvious”.
Thanks for your comment, Katz (the moment someone starts dissing Duran Duran I will start to cry, though). The members of the Police all had a musical history prior to the formation of the band (Summers had played with a range of groups and solo artists, including the Animals).
I can appreciate if you don’t like them, but I think there’s room for suggesting that the Police created some fine pop (e.g. “Don’t Stand So Close to Me”) and some great rock tunes (e.g. “Synchronicity II”). There was some crap in there as well, but all bands are guilty of that.
Best Police song by far, of course, is “Be My Girl/Sally.” I mean, come on!
anthony: “No Feelings has a brilliant intro and it’s the much more the direct musical heir of Chuck Berry than say the Rolling Stones. Rhyming ‘Queen’ with ‘ain’t no human bein’â€? is hilarious. And you’ll find no angrier song than Liar.”
Do you mean ‘Liar’ by Queen? Oh, wait, no, I see what you’re saying… Still, come on! Liar, by Queen! Eh? Eh?
Mama Ah’m gunna beee yore slave!
ALL DAY LONG!
Mama Ah’m gunna try to beehaaave!
ALL DAY LONG!
Only thing better than that is maybe “Ogre Battle,” or maybe “Now I’m Here”…
Down in the dungeon, just Peaches ‘n’ meee…
“Best Police song by far, of course, is “Be My Girl/Sally.â€? I mean, come on!”
Mmmm, not one of their best-known songs, but interesting choice.
Summers was briefly a member of The New Animals just before they broke up.
I don’t deny their musical talent. I just wish they’d used it for good. And I don’t blame them for doing what they did.
As Picasso said, “I can produce a better fake Picasso than anyone.”
“Summers was briefly a member of The New Animals just before they broke up.”
Thanks for that clarification, Katz.
Incidentally (for anyone interested), I watched another DVD on the weekend about music. It was called DiG and was about some nonsense fued between The Dandy Warhols and The Brian Jonestown Massacre. Recommended.
I’d happily forgive a thousand musical sins for the hi-hat part on Walking on the Moon.
$65 to see Miles Davis in ‘88. That’s some serious inflation.
I paid (I think) $40 to see INXS the same year — a more apt comparison to Duran Duran, methinks.
Hey, I was 5-years-old at the time so what do I remember.
Perhaps Duran were being nice to their poor tweeny fans.
Copeland really made that band for me; always pushing the beat or dragging it out. The music was so much more interesting than it might have been. Was it weird al yankovic who did a satire where the drumming became completely nonsensical? Copeland always kept it to within a whisker of chaos.
Not a fan, as such, but I agree with the pro-Copeland statements.
Is this the one you’re referring to su?
King of Suede
I can’t find a video.
I ran a record shop in the Melbourne CBD in 1976 - an era when vinyl was displayed in bins categorised ‘Female Vocal’ and similar frightening things.
When confronted by The Police, Blondie, Ian Dury & The Blockheads, Gary Numan, Bram Tchjaikosky, Elvis Costello etc; the bin was labelled New Wave.
I agree with Darin above
” I think it’s great. The sex pistols come on stage, play like crap, abuse people, take your money and leave”.
The Pistols were not musicians - they were Performance Art.
Sting ‘became Sting’ via his Quadrophenia role.
His abandoned wife Frances Tomelty never gets the deserved ‘muse’ acknowledgement.
She pops up in Brit TV dramas occasionally.
Trudy StylES was her fellow actress in a Shakespeare play when the adultery took place.
Sir John Geilgud describes it as vicious in his autobiog, and he doesn’t mean Sid.
“She pops up in Brit TV dramas occasionally.
Trudy StylES was her fellow actress in a Shakespeare play when the adultery took place.
Sir John Geilgud describes it as vicious in his autobiog, and he doesn’t mean Sid.”
Yes, Ms Trudie wasn’t thinking about Ms Tomelty when she pursued Mr. Sting. Of course, that was a long time ago, and Mr. Sting and Ms Trudie seem like a perfect match. The things some women do.
Too true. Though a drummer myself, I can’t really consider him an influence as such - his style is just so alien to me. Fluid and staccato at the same time, dynamics akimbo, typical for me of the whole Police sound. Simple pop songs for the most part, with complex, surprising arrangements played perfectly. Granted they stayed on a well-rehearsed course most of the time, but when they let go things could get, as you say, very near chaos.
Mother from Synchronicity is a case in point. I heard a live version that could have been Syd-era Floyd crossed with The Clash. Seriously odd.
I’ll teach you if you like
That must be it, Adam. Following Davey’s link up there I came across Thin Lizzy and the Sex Pistols doing christmas carols together on Kenny Everett, and the instant Beegee skit; what a classic. Never mind Phil Lynott and Sid Vicious, I miss Kenny.
Imagine regular eighth note triplets with the first note accented. Now imagine that these accented notes make up quarter note (sorry I’m a yank)triplets. Once you do that, you’re 90% of the way there.
sorry me again. For those not in the know, be my girl, Sally is about Andy’s love of blow up dolls!
Sorry, Alex. I don’t get you. You can’t have eighth note triplets. Eighth notes are by definition eight in a bar, triplets are in multiples of three. Can you explain a different way?
From memory most of the hi-hat licks on Walking on the Moon are polyrythmic trade-offs between the shuffle feel of the song, straight-ahead 4s, 3 over 4, and 5 over 4, and a few variations.
Copeland’s hi-hat is just insane, he’s been brought in as a session musician on so many occasions just to record cool hi-hat stuff.
Nice to find some other drummers around here.
G’day Jobby. Great to hear from another drummer!.
You’re right that the term ‘eighth note triplet’ makes no notational sense! Vic Firth puts it better than I -
In terms of Walking on the Moon, you’re right. Copeland employs the old polyrhythm usually 4 on 6 in various cool guises.
Thanks for clearing that up Alex.
Have some Terry Bozzio.
Very, very nice!!
In return have some Vinnie playing my fav 5/4 pattern!
Jobby, Alex, thanks for the links.
Frank Zappa said Vinnie Colaiuta was the best poly-rythmn percussionist he ever worked with. High praise indeed!