“I have no respect whatsoever for anyone who takes up or advocates violence, “

Hard as you may find it to accept, many many Australian ARMED forces personnel share that view. Yes, we were trained in the controlled and legitimized use of lethal and destructive force …. and prayed fervently that we would never have to use that force because we knew only too well what really happened if that force ever had to be used. It is the potential, not the application, of such force that is best used to stop armed conflict happening in the first place. Of course young soldiers crave excitement and adventure but every one I served with disliked excitement that came at the cost of the life of some poor mother’s son, regardless of his race or creed. There are some armies around the world that fail to weed out psychopaths and perverts before they complete recruit training [basic miitary training] and you’ll find such vermin aplenty is Hollywood’s screaming “action” fantasy movies too …. but not in the ADF.

Now, back to Mandela: for me he was only a former terrorist and a well-known long-term political prisoner. It was only when he became involved with South Africa’s Truth And Reconcilliation Commission that he won, and continues to have, my respect.

I think it is less than 3% of applicants make it into RMC.

Congratulations to him.

Tell him to aim for the highest - Royal Australian Armoured Corps. Second class ride beats a first class walk any day.

Ignorance is bliss. If you can die for a cause like that, good luck to you. But anyone who can venture beyond ignorance has a responsibility to understand exactly why they are killing people, or helping others to kill people.

I suggest that rather than seeing the world primarily through a right-left political prism, we start with a divide between those who advocate violence and those who do not. In the long run, anyone who remains on the pacifist side of that divide, whether right or left wing, is infinitely preferable to anyone who ventures beyond it.

People are going to ask questions if we keep answering each other with questions.

Depends on what you mean by “in worse shape�.

If you mean “not in worse shape at all, but in fact several times stronger” then you’d be right.

This kid basically sees the military as a great big infrastructure provider and peacekeeper - he’s not stupid and doesn’t expect or want to see much genuine action.

and he says the thing that most makes him want to serve is helping people

People joined the CP, entered the convent or the seminary, became Mafia or members of Hitler Youth for much the same reason.

We’re a funny mob and infinitely illusional. Probably our saving grace. In the long run.

1. Much of the money granted under the Marshall Plan had to be spent on US goods.

Which makes perfect sense for a continent no longer with the capacity to produce its own goods, nor with the foreign exchange to purchase them.

2. The US economy in 1945 comprised 50% of the world economy. Now the US economy is under significant pressure and comprises about 15% of the world economy.

Is your point that the US economy is in worse shape now than in 1945? Is it less able to support its Iraq efforts than it was able to fight WWII?

Does anyone still believe Bush actually meant that Nelson Mandella is/was dead?

Who ever did Razor? He said the words “Nelson Mandela is dead” which is fucked-up enough.

People become modern volunteer professional soldiers for the money, to test their courage, for the kit, to find out what it is like to kill someone and to have somebody try to kill you, for the camaraderie, to impress women and to get away from them, for patriotism and the desire to belong to a team. A lot of reasons.

My brother-in-de-facto-law just signed up for Duntroon for none of the above reasons.

Very bright kid, the most violent thing he’s ever done is play World of Warcraft, and he says the thing that most makes him want to serve is helping people [after seeing ADF in Timor Leste as a youngster]. There was no talking him out of it.

Just as a comparison, the Marshall Plan would be equivalent to about $700B today. That figure doesn’t include the cost of WWII itself to the US economy, which would be equivalent to about $21T dollars today (all comparisons as a percentage of US GDP, and rough ones at that).

Makes you wonder why US tax payers aren’t demanding that the Bush Administration ceases its niggardly approach to expenditure on the war.

But seriously:

1. Much of the money granted under the Marshall Plan had to be spent on US goods.

2. The US economy in 1945 comprised 50% of the world economy. Now the US economy is under significant pressure and comprises about 15% of the world economy.

3. Within a couple of years of the beginning ofthe Marshll Plan Europe had been stabilised. And Iraq? Well, comparisons are quite odious.

As far as armies attracting only right-wing psychos. Well, I think anyone can be fashioned into that in the right circumstances. Like most other state armed forces in history, and still today, the ADF is certainly a known bastion of homophobia, sex-based discrimination, racism and bullying that seems unamenable to cultural change. I don’t think the reasons for that are too hard to figure out.

People become modern volunteer professional soldiers for the money, to test their courage, for the kit, to find out what it is like to kill someone and to have somebody try to kill you, for the camaraderie, to impress women and to get away from them, for patriotism and the desire to belong to a team. A lot of reasons.