If you want to keep on with your “witty” comments, or any other blah that you may have wanted to post here, you can take out your frustrations by emailing me.

In the meantime, some accusations of being “puerile” were being thrown around. I think a number of commenters should reflect on that. If it’s not possible for people to argue something on its merits without judging others, reacting with horror that they may differ from you, stereotyping people, being overly dogmatic, taking criticism far too much to heart, dismissing contrary arguments, and generally carrying on like a porkchop, then I’d suggest that many of those who were so quick to stigmatise Ms Edwards as “immature” might like to get a mirror out and take a look. You know, in my experience, immaturity isn’t limited to 20 year olds. And nor is preciousness.

If you’re not capable of arguing without taking offence at the merest hint of disagreement, and want to escalate everything into a series of screams and yells about how others aren’t playing fair, and generally can’t conduct a debate without respecting others’ right to differ…

Well, fill in the dots. We could all reflect on how this thread got way out of control, even if some people kept themselves under control, made some good points, and tried to retrieve the discussion.

But go away and have a think.

BBB

To criticise someone for taking advantage of that system says nothing about those who have a genuine need. Because when people take advantage, others who have needs miss out.

Anna Winter

This is disgusting and classic Howardism. You say you are left? You are not. A complete disgrace.

i cannot cast the sainted Cordelia, quite yet, as, like, forsooth, some furious goddess or god will thump me hard the minute i declare my hand im sure….

…and besides its too early for deaths, the storm is still rages, lear still fragments on the heath…and the peanut gallery is safe!! Safe i tell you.

Nice work, Casey. Who do you fancy for Cordelia?

You remind me of RH’s LP staging of Hamlet. Hang on, I’ll dig up the http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/04/29/saturday-salon-52/#comment-71260 . Ah the old days. Like now except more old.

Oh so you are seeing that mass murderer again? That’s fine dear.

And if you want to be a convincing member of a self-rightous pile-on, you really ought to have started further up the thread.

Well we could start again. Given that all of us (me included) are perturbed that a woman might see a lifetime of childbearing (something that was non-negotiable in my grandmother’s generation) as her best/only option; I see a number of possible questions;

Why is it that child-rearing is seen as an alternative to work rather than work in itself? I have been to uni, worked full-time and worked part-time. Since I have had children, who admittedly require a lot more care than might ordinarily be expected, I have felt rather embarrassed to accept money for part-time work, which I see as recreation compared to my duties in child rearing. In my ideal world child rearing is perceived as an occupation with appropriate remuneration not as a hobby to be encouraged in the middle classes and demonized in the working classes.

How do we support women who have children at a relatively young age to continue their education? I don’t believe most high schools or tafe institutes are resourced in a way that allows them to accommodate the needs of such women.

Lastly and most importantly, how do we change the culture at large so that a woman is not penalized for aspiring to a trade/ other form of education? Women are underrepresented in large sectors. Not all women are suited to academic life but there are relatively few choices for women who do not fit the academic mold and we know from recent surveys that it is these women who are most disadvantaged in the workplace. At school women face all kinds of misogynistic attitudes that can easily lead them into a situation where they have children very young . In trying to live up to expectations which by their very nature, women are meant to fail, women can very easily find themselves in a situation not unlike Clare’s. A woman of 20 makes many unwise choices, but if you start off with relative privilege, be it financial, social or intellectual, your choices may not lead you to the same place as Clare. Her choices cannot be critiqued except as part of the larger social system in which she lives.

Yes its been fascinating. And you are right paulus, its just not Shakespeare without Mad Tom Greenfield is it?, although there are some interesting contenders in the Andrews strand who could play a nutter.

It waz perfectly clear what you meant but good on ya ma’am for spelling it out.

Yes, Fanny, it was indeed perfectly clear what she meant; my analysis of what her comments mean in practice is what we are disagreeing about. My understanding is that the right to express disagreement is one of the things suz is saying she supports.

And if you want to be a convincing member of a self-rightous pile-on, you really ought to have started further up the thread.