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	<title>Comments on: 25 same-sames</title>
	<atom:link href="http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/10/10/25-same-sames/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/10/10/25-same-sames/</link>
	<description>Life, Culture and Politics from BrisVegas</description>
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		<title>By: suz</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/10/10/25-same-sames/#comment-70780</link>
		<dc:creator>suz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Oct 2007 07:20:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/10/10/25-same-sames/#comment-70780</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;So you don’t want to be on the list then?&lt;/em&gt;

Being pseudonymous as a blogger doesn&#039;t mean I&#039;m in the closet in &#039;real&#039; life. Who knows? Maybe I am on the list ;-)

&lt;em&gt;it’s still very difficult for lesbians and gay men to mention their personal lives in the unself-conscious way that heterosexuals do

But you’re happy to publish the list and add names to it.&lt;/em&gt;

It&#039;s a list of people who are open about being gay and who are in influential positions in our culture. Yes, I&#039;m happy to publish it. I think such lists can help change things so that anyone could be open, in any circumstance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>So you don’t want to be on the list then?</em></p>
<p>Being pseudonymous as a blogger doesn&#8217;t mean I&#8217;m in the closet in &#8216;real&#8217; life. Who knows? Maybe I am on the list <img src='http://larvatusprodeo.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p><em>it’s still very difficult for lesbians and gay men to mention their personal lives in the unself-conscious way that heterosexuals do</p>
<p>But you’re happy to publish the list and add names to it.</em></p>
<p>It&#8217;s a list of people who are open about being gay and who are in influential positions in our culture. Yes, I&#8217;m happy to publish it. I think such lists can help change things so that anyone could be open, in any circumstance.</p>
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		<title>By: suz</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/10/10/25-same-sames/#comment-70779</link>
		<dc:creator>suz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Oct 2007 07:10:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/10/10/25-same-sames/#comment-70779</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve been a fellow traveller of Julie&#039;s for 30 years and I&#039;d be extremely surprised if she&#039;s ever voted Liberal. Labor or left voters can be reasonable, you know.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve been a fellow traveller of Julie&#8217;s for 30 years and I&#8217;d be extremely surprised if she&#8217;s ever voted Liberal. Labor or left voters can be reasonable, you know.</p>
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		<title>By: anthony</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/10/10/25-same-sames/#comment-70778</link>
		<dc:creator>anthony</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Oct 2007 06:00:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/10/10/25-same-sames/#comment-70778</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Kylie Kwong &lt;/blockquote&gt;

Not that I did much research into the matter but I never knew.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Kylie Kwong </p></blockquote>
<p>Not that I did much research into the matter but I never knew.</p>
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		<title>By: monaro</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/10/10/25-same-sames/#comment-70777</link>
		<dc:creator>monaro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Oct 2007 05:48:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/10/10/25-same-sames/#comment-70777</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;
I wouldn’t say McCrossin is a Liberal! But some of the men on that list might very well be Libs.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Yes, but they haven’t been outed yet.

As for Julie, if you’re not prepared to believe &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.echo.net.au/pg.php?issues_id=20_05&amp;pg=08&amp;view=gif&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Bob Ellis’s claim&lt;/a&gt;, and why would you, all the signs are there: she’s almost devoid of shrillness and far to reasonable to be a Howard hater.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>
I wouldn’t say McCrossin is a Liberal! But some of the men on that list might very well be Libs.
</p></blockquote>
<p>Yes, but they haven’t been outed yet.</p>
<p>As for Julie, if you’re not prepared to believe <a href="http://www.echo.net.au/pg.php?issues_id=20_05&amp;pg=08&amp;view=gif" rel="nofollow">Bob Ellis’s claim</a>, and why would you, all the signs are there: she’s almost devoid of shrillness and far to reasonable to be a Howard hater.</p>
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		<title>By: catlick</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/10/10/25-same-sames/#comment-70776</link>
		<dc:creator>catlick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Oct 2007 05:40:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/10/10/25-same-sames/#comment-70776</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt; I fear being feared&lt;/i&gt;

So you don&#039;t want to be on the list then?

&lt;i&gt;it&#039;s still very difficult for lesbians and gay men to mention their personal lives in the unself-conscious way that heterosexuals do&lt;/i&gt;

But you&#039;re happy to publish the list and add names to it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i> I fear being feared</i></p>
<p>So you don&#8217;t want to be on the list then?</p>
<p><i>it&#8217;s still very difficult for lesbians and gay men to mention their personal lives in the unself-conscious way that heterosexuals do</i></p>
<p>But you&#8217;re happy to publish the list and add names to it.</p>
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		<title>By: suz</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/10/10/25-same-sames/#comment-70775</link>
		<dc:creator>suz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Oct 2007 04:44:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/10/10/25-same-sames/#comment-70775</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;It is reasonable to consider self interest in assessing the merits of an argument.&lt;/em&gt;

But this is a very specific argument - it&#039;s not just about self-interest, it&#039;s about self. I&#039;m an old gay liberationist - I think that in speaking up for ourselves, we come to define our interests. No one else can do that; no one else can (or does) decide what would be good for us and hand it to us.

&lt;em&gt;I’ll feel more secure when I feel totally free to speak on my behalf - in all situations

What’s holding you back?&lt;/em&gt;

Not much does hold me back but I am occasionally in situations where I&#039;m reticent about being open because I fear being feared. And I&#039;m very aware that in many occupations (teaching, for example) it&#039;s still very difficult for lesbians and gay men to mention their personal lives in the unself-conscious way that heterosexuals do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>It is reasonable to consider self interest in assessing the merits of an argument.</em></p>
<p>But this is a very specific argument &#8211; it&#8217;s not just about self-interest, it&#8217;s about self. I&#8217;m an old gay liberationist &#8211; I think that in speaking up for ourselves, we come to define our interests. No one else can do that; no one else can (or does) decide what would be good for us and hand it to us.</p>
<p><em>I’ll feel more secure when I feel totally free to speak on my behalf &#8211; in all situations</p>
<p>What’s holding you back?</em></p>
<p>Not much does hold me back but I am occasionally in situations where I&#8217;m reticent about being open because I fear being feared. And I&#8217;m very aware that in many occupations (teaching, for example) it&#8217;s still very difficult for lesbians and gay men to mention their personal lives in the unself-conscious way that heterosexuals do.</p>
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		<title>By: catlick</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/10/10/25-same-sames/#comment-70774</link>
		<dc:creator>catlick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Oct 2007 23:53:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/10/10/25-same-sames/#comment-70774</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt; then we&#039;re clearly not accepted as fully human&lt;/i&gt;

Making a distinction between  a lobby group/interested party and  a call by the broader community for change  does not necessarily characterize the interested parties as sub human. It is reasonable to consider self interest in assessing the merits of an argument.

&lt;i&gt;I&#039;m happy when straight people speak out on my behalf&lt;/i&gt;

I&#039;m not requesting straight people to speak for us; perhaps if they  could speak with us?

&lt;i&gt;I&#039;ll feel more secure when I feel totally free to speak on my behalf -in all situations&lt;/i&gt;

What&#039;s holding you back?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i> then we&#8217;re clearly not accepted as fully human</i></p>
<p>Making a distinction between  a lobby group/interested party and  a call by the broader community for change  does not necessarily characterize the interested parties as sub human. It is reasonable to consider self interest in assessing the merits of an argument.</p>
<p><i>I&#8217;m happy when straight people speak out on my behalf</i></p>
<p>I&#8217;m not requesting straight people to speak for us; perhaps if they  could speak with us?</p>
<p><i>I&#8217;ll feel more secure when I feel totally free to speak on my behalf -in all situations</i></p>
<p>What&#8217;s holding you back?</p>
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		<title>By: suz</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/10/10/25-same-sames/#comment-70773</link>
		<dc:creator>suz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Oct 2007 23:08:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/10/10/25-same-sames/#comment-70773</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;Or the poll was decided by liberalpartyophobics.&lt;/em&gt;

I wouldn&#039;t say McCrossin is a Liberal! But some of the men on that list might very well be Libs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>Or the poll was decided by liberalpartyophobics.</em></p>
<p>I wouldn&#8217;t say McCrossin is a Liberal! But some of the men on that list might very well be Libs.</p>
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		<title>By: monaro</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/10/10/25-same-sames/#comment-70772</link>
		<dc:creator>monaro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Oct 2007 21:13:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/10/10/25-same-sames/#comment-70772</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Others that have come to mind are Julie McCrossin and Kerryn Phelps, but perhaps they were influential in the past.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Or the poll was decided by liberalpartyophobics.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Others that have come to mind are Julie McCrossin and Kerryn Phelps, but perhaps they were influential in the past.</p></blockquote>
<p>Or the poll was decided by liberalpartyophobics.</p>
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		<title>By: suz</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/10/10/25-same-sames/#comment-70771</link>
		<dc:creator>suz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Oct 2007 11:28:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/10/10/25-same-sames/#comment-70771</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;people who aren’t able to be dismissed as interested parties&lt;/em&gt;

If people feel able to dismiss lesbian and gay aspirations towards equality on the basis that well, they would think that wouldn&#039;t they, then we&#039;re clearly not accepted as fully human.

I&#039;m happy when straight people speak out on my behalf but I&#039;ll feel more secure when I feel totally free to speak on my own behalf - in all situations.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>people who aren’t able to be dismissed as interested parties</em></p>
<p>If people feel able to dismiss lesbian and gay aspirations towards equality on the basis that well, they would think that wouldn&#8217;t they, then we&#8217;re clearly not accepted as fully human.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m happy when straight people speak out on my behalf but I&#8217;ll feel more secure when I feel totally free to speak on my own behalf &#8211; in all situations.</p>
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