I’ve written before on the election debate here and here so I’m not going to riff on too much about the counter offer by the Liberals.
John Howard has offered to debate Kevin Rudd next Sunday night in front of an audience selected by the Liberal and Labor parties in the Great Hall at Parliament House.
The Liberal Party’s federal director, Brian Loughnane, last night sent a letter to Labor suggesting just one 90-minute debate starting at 7.30pm and moderated by David Speers of Sky News.
Labor’s national secretary, Tim Gartrell, did not accept the offer last night, instead writing back to the Liberals restating Labor’s call for three debates, including one on YouTube and one on the Sunday night before polling day.
The offer by the Liberals of one early and largely locked down debate is no surprise; here you have a challenger that wants to open up the process, and an incumbent that wants to close it down and deny any potential oxygen to his opposite.
So who’s playing the small target? One would have thought the PM, sitting where he is in the polls, would be itching for a chance to compare and contrast the old with the new.
The PM will no doubt get his way, which is unfortunate because it really would be refreshing to see the protagonists engage more closely. Of course it still sucks that the other party leaders will be locked out. In which case, why bother having one at all?
Plus ca change. Oppositions always want more debates and later in the campaign; incumbent governments always want fewer debates and earlier in the campaign.
Given the mind-numbingly contrived, set piece theatrics that characterise them, I’m not convinced that they actually deliver anything much other than comparatively low ratings. I can, however, confidently predict that, regardless of final format, “working families” (whatever they are) will get mentioned 552 times in the first five minutes.
One’s enough thanks. Any more will just bore and annoy the electorate.
Meh. It appears that they’re going with the dull-as-ditchwater ‘journos ask questions’ format as last time, only with a bit more interactivity between the candidates. And no worm! Worms are fun.
Just like the Charter of Budget Honesty, or whatever its called, where Howard’s Treasury gets to pick apart the economics of the opposition’s policies, the great debate rubbish is just another free kick for the Liberal Party machine and the the rev-heads at News Ltd and commercial interests on trash telly.
Rudd should just say no. Expect the more balanced ALP counter-offer to be rejected, call Howard a coward, and then move on to working the media on his own terms.
The circus going on in the US at the moment where sweaty candidates stand in a row spitting out two-second sound bites at the mercy of some grand-standing “news” celebrity is where all this is heading. Its just politics dressed up as entertainment with the candidates as sitting ducks. It has nothing to do with informing the electorate about the issues that matter to us all.
The media can go into a full-throated roar about being deprived of their favourite election stunt and ratings drawcard, but who cares? Doubt the punters do.
Rudd can’t refuse because then the Libs will make it into a big talking point that Rudd “refused to debate” Howard and imply that he was afraid to.
No, but there’ll be lots of to-ing and fro-ing about the format and number of the debates.
Rudd has just knocked back the offer of a single debate, demanding Howard respond to his call for three debates.
http://abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/10/15/2059559.htm?section=justin
This bit was funny:
Clean it up? Run by the press? Will Murdoch be on the “independent body”?
I’m sure it will be riveting viewing, but I’m afraid I have a previous engagement. Whenever it is and however many there are.
JWH has ruled out the worm. I like the worm, despite its populist crassness. I particularly like it when it plunges to the depths when JWH says something the worm prople don’t like.
Since JWH has apparently ruled out the worm exactly how many lies does he already intend to tell during the debate, and precisely how dirty does he already intend to get during this debate?
What happened to Rudd’s “anywhere anytime” commitment to debate the PM???
Rudd should be Cirque de Soleil he changes position so often.
@Razor, Rudd wants three debates with the PM, including one with citizen participation.
How is that a possie change? In fact it’s consistent with what he’s been saying for the past couple of months. It’s the PM who is in avoidance mode on this.
Phil – “anywhere anytime” is pretty clear. The PM has offered him a debate and now Rudd is too scared to take it up.
Sorry Razor, can’t agree with your interpretation on this. And the PM’s attempts to quarantine this on Pay TV is another sign of who’s dodging.
Anyway, I’m sure we’ll have the one debate like we did last time because the PM of the day always calls the shots when it comes to debates.
Let me just say this…
Razor, so your logic is that Howard wants one debate, Rudd wants three, so Rudd is scared?
Right, you’re officially a wing-nut.
No wilful, Razor is making the point that the Filthy Liberal uses phrases like ‘anywhere, anytime’, which carry a certain nonchalance about the format, but then refuses to debate on anything other than his own terms. Nothing wrong with that, though. It just looks a little inconsistent. And Phil, is Howard really proposing a pay-TV-only debate? That’s just weird.
BBB
The Murdoch press is reporting it thusly: “The debate would be broadcast live and be available to all media outlets on condition that the broadcast was not “wormed” or otherwise changed.” Not sure how this works out in practice – would any of the networks bother if each other network might also broadcast it?
BBB
One half hour debate a week, say 8:30 Fridays ’til we vote. Agendas are set 7 days prior.
Yes, I’m a masochist, but I welcome every opportunity for these unctious little twerps to make fools of themselves. The pleasure is so much better after battling through the pain.
Once just ain’t enough.
Exactly what Howard is proposing. Pay TV only.
Day one of the election campaign and the Liberal wheels are beginning to falloff already!
Pictorally
Anywhere, anytime is pretty clear.
Rudd has been told where and when and now won’t front.
What other things he has said and will say in the future will he try and wriggle out of?
Is all the Me Too-isms pure lies?
I wonder if Howard has shares in Pay TV?
So which channel exactly would show the debate? Let’s assume it’s FOX, which is owned by Rupert Murdoch. Does that mean Howard is angling for a post-PM job on the board of News Ltd, just like his fellow Iraq War conspirator Jose Maria Aznar (the former Spanish PM)?
And if so, does that suggest that Murdoch (whose mother was Jewish, which makes him Jewish according to the tenets of Jewish faith) was really the driving force behind the Iraq War, which was engineered by the pro-Israeli Neoconservatives in Washington?
steve, the question is whether any of the ABC and channels 7, 9 or 10 would also broadcast the debate. They can if they want, but will they bother given the equal-access regime that Howard has proposed? My guess is that it will be on Sky News and the ABC in the end.
BBB
Because when given a half-arsed self-serving offer from the PM, Rudd will wriggle out of it with a substantial counter-offer?
It’s electoral kryptonite!1!111!!!!
Razor, repeating a dumb argument doesn’t make it less dumb.
Razor does have a point. Any debate offered by Howard fits into Rudds criteria:
Anywhere anytime.
Any wriggling looks like exactly that. Wriggling.
Re the statement that ‘we will debate him anytime, anywhere’: putting the emphasis on the word ‘debate’ and not on the phrase ‘anytime, anywhere’ makes the format of the debate uh, debatable, not its timing.
Plenty of wriggle room there I reckon.
“Razor does have a point.”
No satp it is an “edge”, for a start.
That needs ‘sharpening’ if this kind of argument is any indication……
Kevin Rudd should debate Howard in the dunny, at the Espy, coz he said “anywhere, anytime”. Pathetic.
Jiminy. Who said anything about the dunny at the Espy? I thought it was meant to be at Parliament House (a logical choice, by the way, if you think about it really really hard).
Now when someone gets up and says ‘anywhere, anytime’, it’s just machismo. It’s meant to convey confidence. When the other guy names the place and time, and you come back with ‘well, umm, actually no I don’t want to have a debate like that, it has to be just the way I want it’, it looks weak as piss. Banging on about the ‘wriggle room’ you left yourself just makes it worse.
BBB
What about the dunny at Parliament House.Jesus perish the thought,Lord Downer may try and give Kev a wedgee.
“When the other guy names the place and time, and you come back with ‘well, umm, actually no I don’t want to have a debate like that, it has to be just the way I want it’, it looks weak as piss. Banging on about the ‘wriggle room’ you left yourself just makes it worse.”
Hey BBB there aint gonna be no debate,what’s gonna happen is, Kevs gonna tell Howard what a squeezer he has been for the last ten years,and how work choices is going to sink him and his government..
Howards retort will be to tell the world Rudd has no experience and the Labor Party is full of union hacks,this diatribe will be interspersed with Ums,Ahs Ohs,and “I wish I was any where, but here with Rudd.
Debate !! don’t make me laugh.
Gaz! Long time no see! I reckon there’ll be at least one debate. The Filthy Liberal wants one ‘cos his ego tells him that he’d do better on the night. But I don’t disagree with you about the ultimate result (a shellacking for Howard) or the reason why (WorkChoices).
Cheers
BBB
“The Filthy Liberal wants one ‘cos his ego tells him that he’d do better on the night. ”
Jesus H Christ Triple B you aint joining the dark side are ya ? just a little joke he he he.
Ego, yes ego indeed, ol J.H. has got that in spades.”A shellacking” I think it’s gonna be a lot closer than people think,not because of the tutelage of King John,but people are so mortgaged up to their bollicks,a change may frighten the horses.We shall see.
I tell ya somthin, some of Rudds minders should stick a false pimple or pus filled boil on his face,or at least he should cut himself shaving, the fucker looks like a tailors dummy.I watched the 7.30 report tonight and I thought Kerry was going to jump on the bastard and dead set give him a tongue’ee.
“If he doesn’t turn up, I’ll still talk for an hour and a half”, said Mr Howard.
This strategy has to be a winner and guess we can but take the ‘JWH word’ for that. It has to be allowed, encouraged, supported. Regards to all who have pay television. Hope you enjoy it.
Latest debate/debate update here.
http://www.smh.com.au/news/federalelection2007news/just-one-debate-pm/2007/10/16/1192300739761.html
Filthy will cave – he has been gazumped by the Tax Cuts and now Ben Cousins will take up a lot of media in the AFL States for the next few days. He can’t afford to let the PM on the stump for 90 minutes on Sunday Prime Time at the start of the second week. I am already calling Week One for the Libs, unless Filthy can counter punch really hard and fast, but Cousins has partially snookered him.
And drop the lines about Pay TV – it will go free to air as well.
If Filthy had any gumption he’d counter by saying he’ll have is own three debates even if the PM doesn’t show.
Now, that would make me sit up and take notice if he has the guts to do that.
“now Ben Cousins will take up a lot of media in the AFL States for the next few days”
Why is this bad for Rudd? It’s Howard who has to catch up, and this story has taken the focus off the tax cuts.
You really believe that the positive news of the tax Cuts versus no news from the ALP is a good thing?
Filthy may be in front but he has to keep running.
Anyway, Rudd walks away with the quote of the day:
I agree, I loved the worm. Re pay TV, last time the ABC picked it up from 9 but delayed the broadcast, this time if the same occurs it’ll be disappeared because Sky has very few subscribers and only the political tragics will care to watch the ABC delayed broadcast. Everything points to Howard wanting this to disappear down the memory hole.
I despised the worm.
Oh no! The ABC delayed the telecast so that was bad bad bad!!!
Jesus H. Christ – one minute we have the left bleating that the commercials are all pro-JWH and the ABC is there for “balance” and we can’t live without Aunty. Now you are complaining that because the ABC isn’t watched by enough people it’s just a waste of time. Make up your minds!!
Watch your blood pressure there, Razor. Why not have a nice cup of tea?
So the truth of the matter is …. the standby pm, like Razor, is even scared of “a” debate.
Howard is even fearful of shrivelled worm exposure, amongst a coterie of friends, on home ground and only relayed to those who can afford it.
Razor, I think you misread my comment, it was Sky that has few subs and is where this would be buried. The ABC would have a bigger audience, so why not live on the national broadcaster using someone who works for them? We do own it and pay for it and that sounds like a good use of a public asset.
Anyway I think Rudd will accept, and he should, but while there should challenge the PM directly for additional debates…….watching the PM wriggle (worm like) out of that direct challenge should be fun.
“Filthy may be in front but he has to keep running.”
I beg to differ.
We’ll find out soon enough in any case.
Oh Razor, dude. I hope you’ve got a few boxes of kleenex stuffed away, cause you’re gonna need them on election night…
Come to think of it, with all your comments this week, you may use them up during the campaign for an entirely different reason.
patrickg – you would know as well as anyone else that tissues are no good for that – leaves bits of tissue everywhere – a flannel is much better.
yeah right razor, the reigning premiers decide they only want to hold the GF at say, their training ground, instead of the MCG, and only broadcast on austar……and they’ll pick the umpies…sheesh
howard doesn’t want to debate rudd on primetime, cause he got beaten by beazley AND latham, and the worm. like durr.
and since when has ‘anytime, anywhere’ – meant, “ok, i’ll see you, in your basement with 15 of your mates”?
razor’s aussie mateship values – authentic as ben cousins’ rehabilitation.
The Channel 9 Packer Puppets were sort of talking up the re-introduction of the worm for the Great Debate this morning. Is John Howard about to learn what happens when you come between the Packers and a fisrful of advertising money before and after the debate on a Sunday night during the election cycle?