I was surprised to see Rudd in Iraq today. Then I guess it makes sense given his incessant attention to fulfilling his promises as quickly as possible. Pulling out our on the ground military support earlier might actually improve relations with Iraq and expedite trade negotiations… sans AWB.
God, I’m up early today, determined to get an article I want to have published, edited to a publishable style. So, I hope and pray y’all have finished your Chrissie shopping and will be on-guard for debates!
Not up to five, anyway. Does this mean LP-ers are more likely to be left-side brainers than right side brainers? Or are we like the bulk of the population who use both sides of their brain but not simultaneously. [Smile]
bjohns,
Didn’t know little Kev had flown into a war-zone.Doesn’t seem like he went there and then got the troops to blare trumpets like Also-ran.Or am I mistaken that we have seen an end to phony militarism exploited for political purposes?
If so, the left side of my brain delights in it, and the right side is sort of saying okay too.
Some of you may recall that in last week’s Saturday Salon I made a comment about the current ant plague that seems to be happening in Armidale. Well, yesterday I inadvertently rid myt flat of ants. I had some canned peaches for breakfast and left the empty tin on th kitchen sink instear of immediately putting it in the garbage. A couple of hours later the tin was crawling with little ants, whereupon I seized the tin, put it in a plastic bag and dropped it in the wheelie bin.
No sight of an ant since.
Ant plague defeated, at least for now.
I have never had an article published in my life (although I have never submitted one either). But I got 95% for a uni essay and 93% for another. Both lecturers said it was the highest mark they had given in many years, so I thought I might as well try and get them published somewhere.
Bloody hell. Christopher Pearson has gone even further off the deep-end. I suspect he may be caught in a rip somewhere off Glenelg and is heading steadily southward.
“I have never had an article published in my life (although I have never submitted one either). But I got 95% for a uni essay and 93% for another. Both lecturers said it was the highest mark they had given in many years, so I thought I might as well try and get them published somewhere.”
CK,
There’s probably very little I would agree with Pearson on, but in this case, I think teh yoof would enjoy following most of his advice.So thanks for this opportunity to launch into a comment mostly about books and DVDs and a little about music, which I hope other LP-ers will either emulate or take up.Music first. CP has excellent taste in music and opera and I wouldn’t disagree with any of his recommendations, though I wouldn’t describe some of it in the drivelly religious terms he does. Its all just beautiful music to listen to. I’m an old G&S fan since performing very badly in Pinafore in primary school, being utterly unmusical, but we all had to be in it.
Whatever he writes, Evelyn Waugh is always a joy. Exceedingly witty and sometimes very very funny. In my younger days I can recall being in paroxysms of laughter over a couple of his books.Scoop was one of them.
Once you get use to Thackeray’s peculiar voice, Vanity Fair is un-put-downable, but somehow for reasons I can’t define, I found the BBC DVD a little disappointing, and the recent Hollywood version disastrous.Anna Karenina is one of those tragic novels where you keep wishing the characters wouldn’t do what they do, but they do it anyway. A rewarding but emotionally draining experience. I have to disagree with him about Our Mutual Friend. It falls apart halfway through, and never recovers. Worse than the last chapter of Bleak House.It is a very bad introduction to Dickens. And I’m such an avid Dickens fan I give Dickens novels to friends as presents. I’m not a big White fan, but I did enjoy Voss. My favourite of his books is The Vivisector though he goes as a bit crazy about psychopomps in it. (Don’t ask). I definitely intend to check out Nabakov’s memoirs.Pearson does have a bit of a strange taste in Eliot. Daniel Deronda is interesting, but, in my opinion not a touch on that old tear-jerker, Silas Marner, or the genius of Middlemarch.Lampedusa’s The Leopard is a good read, but the Visconti movie is a sheer masterpiece and obligatory viewing for all lefties.
Over to the rest of you.
Anyone notice the whaling article in the age yesterday? it apparently made my marine biologist partner livid, so naturally, i want to have a squiz. only we can’t find it online…
Paul, I have been attempting to get back into reading novel mode with glasses in need of an update and the continuing search for the perfect reading globe, still unfulfilled.
On CP, I suspect that CK has been a bit hard. Though, it is difficult to imagine good ol’ Mr Chris and “teh yoof” at present opening time. Would it go something like this?
“Oh look uncle chris has given me a copy of “Voss”, geez, I wonder what that is all about? I hope you enjoy the red sox unc’… they are a replica of the ones the pope wears.”
Aye CK. It reads like being given a cricket ball as a kid and then having to listen to Uncle Chris go about “almost playing county cricket, where of course in those days we didn’t have pads” for an hour. Followed by a game out the back with Uncle Chris monopolising the bowling to demonstrate his “mean googly”.
We’re supposed to be in drought and being roughed up by global warming but outside my stall it’s hissing down! Could anyone explain to a poor horse what’s going on?
“I have never had an article published in my life (although I have never submitted one either). But I got 95% for a uni essay and 93% for another. Both lecturers said it was the highest mark they had given in many years, so I thought I might as well try and get them published somewhere.”
John Greenfield, 93-95 is usually awarded for publishable or close to publishable quality, so congratulations on that. Do you have an idea of where you’re sending your article/s? If these are among your first publications, can I recommend somewhere with a reputation for faster response to submissions and good reader reviews. It is always a temptation to aim for a particular high profile journal, but you should make sure that you are going to get a good, timely response, which is far more valuable for someone beginning on the publication cycle.
Thanks for the encouragement. If anyone here is an academic type who actually gets stuff published, I would be extremely grateful for any advice.
1. OK, essay one got 95%. My lecturer allowed me to exceed the word limit of 3,000 words because he was very interested in what I had been arguing in tutes, etc. Anyways, I submitted 7.500 words. It was critiquing the notion that the modern West’s stereotyping of the muslim orient started in fifth century BCE Greece, with Aeschylus’ The Persians.. It is basically a very closely argued critique of the very popular post-colonialist/Edward Saidian “Orientalism” thesis. In the process it also critiques those French structuralists and post-structuralists historians who argue that Greek dramatists (I focus overwhelmingly on Aeschylus) and historians (I focus only on Herodotus) who represent non-Greeks (especially Persians, Egyptians, etc.) in their works, are not representing these ‘Others’ at all, but are merely using the ‘Others’ as mirrors to present triumphalist literature on Greek superiority. The paper looks at literature, philology, art, archaeology, etc.
The main problem from a publishing perspcetive is that my lecturer liked my “robust” style of arguing (much milder than my style on LP, but you can probably get a whif. ;), but said it might “alienate” others. SOOOO, what I have to is strip it back to much more calm and non-confrontational prose. There are only small segments where I “let rip” but I imagine most “serious” history/classics academic journals might not be so appreciative. All the arguments, critique of the prominent scholars, handling of the original sources was not faulted by my lecturer, so its mainly a style thing, especially as I take on the heaviest scholars who push this line.
OTOH, there are many non-academic journals around that would probably lap it up. For example, Quadrant. Anyway, I’m blind here, so any advice would be grateful.
Klaus K and joe2, you are both human legends. When the Melbourne Cups runs again I might have a few hot tips for you!
I am worried about one thing though. The Society and Animals talks about an author style guide. Do you know if they’ve written one for horses? If they haven’t, is that discriminatory? Would it worth getting a lawyer? Or should I contact Sarsaparilla?
Look, modestly speaking, I’m a bit of a four-footed trailblazer. I have much to offer humans I reckon even though they consigned so many of my relatives to the glue factory. We horses see things that humans don’t. And we are much kinder.
2. One on the the extent to which popular protest ended Australia’s involvement in Vietnam got 94, but I was penalised 5 marks for going over the word limit. FASCISTS!
3. One that got 92, but it had one major flaw, which is easily fixed, which would have pushed up into the mid 90s. It was about “the extent to which homosexuality as we know it today existed in classical Greece.” As you can imagine it’s a critique of Foucault and his followers in Queer Studies, etc. But it also brings in a bit of neurobiology, physiology, and genetics, which I think gave it an edge.
4. A 90 for a pro-Zionist response to “why have the Americans failed to solve the Palestinian refugee problem?” It had a weakish conclusion which my lecturer said brought me down a bit. I nearly fainted, coz this lecturer (like most similar uni. lecturers is not known as a Zionist cheerleader. I laughed to him, “Jesus, this must have hurt you!” he merely said, “a very closely argued essay will always be rewarded regardles of the position it takes.” Yeah right.
Shorter Erich Fitzgerald: Because we humans have not evolved far enough to walk and chew gum at the same time, it must follow that opponents of whaling are single-issue morons who cannot possibly care about the whole marine environment and the other creatures in it. Also, emotion. Emotional. Neh!
“While we target Japanese whaling with attention and political as well as emotional investment, we are being distracted from the plight of other whales and dolphins in far more dire straits than minke, or even humpback and fin whales. It was only this year that the baiji, or Yangtze River dolphin, was pronounced extinct.”
JG: [Greek dramatists (I focus overwhelmingly on Aeschylus) and historians (I focus only on Herodotus) who represent non-Greeks (especially Persians, Egyptians, etc.) in their works, are not representing these ‘Others’ at all, but are merely using the ‘Others’ as mirrors to present triumphalist literature on Greek superiority.]
JG, presently reading “Persians” and agree that spin is spin whether it comes at you in a papyrus trireme, a swiftboat for truth, or delightfully arranged pages of iambic pentameter.
While boxing on with the gods on History Olympus is no doubt its own reward, there’s a nice little earner to be had with a sizzling script for “non-academic” types, say eg, “300″ fanciers who might appreciate the more “robust” elements of your style.
To be truthful I couldn’t give a flying fuck about serious academic journals. As Klaus says, the better ones have agonisingly long lag times. As I am more likely to be pursuing a Ph. D in Mathematics, rather than History/Classics, i think I’d just be tickled pink to have any of my humanities essays published in some mag/journal that is slightly more highbrow than Who Weekly and as you guess, I think I’d have a lot more fun being able to get published in a journal/mag that was more “liberal” in the styles it was happy publishing. But you know what they say, “buggers can’t be choosers.”
Are there any psychopharmacalogy types awake at the moment? I have been going through my Angels, AC/DC, Radiators, Cold Chisel, Jimmy and the Boys, and Bette Midler collection full-bore while sipping from Anna Winter-inspired Vodka and Limes as I wrestle with my Aeschylus, Edward Said, Herodotus, and Lacan musings. I dropped a Mogadon about an hour ago, and all of a sudden am totally awake and read to party.
WTF is going on? Said Moggie was taken to knock me out!
John Greenfield, I think you should aim for an academic journal because then you can cite your refereed, high quality journal article as a reason why you should be taken seriously as you take your usual interlocutors to task for their weak-mindedness. If you publish in Quadrant, you will mostly only be taken seriously by people who already agree with you. I hate to say it, but that is the status of that publication as it currently stands. There is little of the legacy of Donald Horne, or of other fine contributors throughout its history to be seen in it now.
If you are not interested in continuing to publish in the humanities, then it may in fact be worth the wait for a higher profile journal if you have the patience. I would only recommend something faster if you’re going to be trying to get into the rhythm of academic publishing, because you’ll need that feedback sooner rather than later as you prepare your next pieces.
I haven’t marked an enormous number of essays yet, but I have given very high marks to material I disagreed with, and my senior colleagues are more generous than I when it comes to that. I wouldn’t generalise, but I think is a stronger sense of professionalism in the humanities than credit is given for (although I’ve also heard of some really poor behaviour, but it’s usually directed at colleagues, not students). For me it always comes down to serious engagement with the ideas presented in the course: disagreement shouldn’t involve summary dismissal of what I’m trying to teach. Obviously said pieces were also well constructed, well argued, etc.
Everyone:
[i].
I hereby name this Saturday Salon “ON BEING PUBLISHED”.
[Why not? If corporate cowboys, fly-by-night companies and the white shoe brigade can name anything and everything they like, from football teams to public property, why can’t I hop in for my chop too? Sorry Mark, Kim, Anna et collective ].
[ii].
Damn the ABC. Turned on Radio National just now expecting to hear another brilliant,enjoyable and informative Mark Steele lecture on history …. and they’ve put on a comedy in its place.
Bjohns [5]:
Not surprised Rudd went to Iraq and Afghanistan. As I said before, we have a very very different Prime Minister now; not necessarily nicer but certainly much more …. how shall I put it? …. commanding.
John Greenfield: “as I wrestle with my Aeschylus, Edward Said…”
Goodness gracious, what a thought. Aeschylus, as you must surely already know, is actually worthy of being, um, ‘wrestled with’. But Edward Said may be merely summarily dismissed with a healthy snicker and some mean remarks to his parents on a note in the report card, if not worse. btw, are you writing this stuff with a working reading knowledge of old Greek?
In my own experience, I find that the best and most interesting way to really examine or criticize the major Greek dramatists (plus that pesky comedian) is to, well, produce them. There’s no better literary essay on the Greeks than the actual flesh and blood Andrei Serban/La Mama/Great Jones Rep production of “Fragments of a Trilogy” (which roughly = Medea, Trojan Women, and Elektra), and its equivalents, (and yeah, I’ve seen some, uh, equivalents). But then each to his own, if you can really bring yrself to stand such well-meaning folks like Wm. Arrowsmith, Richmond Lattimore and Moses Hadas, after more than a tol’able while. Though I do remain solidly convinced that the Fitzgerald translation of the Iliad is an ongoing cause for celebration. Anyway, enjoy what you can!
I’m glad I’m reading Saturday Salon. It’s a valuable place for a horse to pick up writing and publishing tips and, if I ever attend a University, I’ll know about lecherers.
Did you humans know that, when the car came along and we horses were sent to the glue factories in the hundreds of thousands that we call it The Horse Holocaust?
How could humans who we served so well have treated us so badly.
“How could humans who we(horses) served so well have treated us so badly?”
Pyzo, well may you ask. Heard Margaret Atwood(a bit up herself but quite brilliant) read the following passage on RN’s bookshow years ago. Guaranteed to temporarily shred the limbic system of anyone who ever had a heart for neddys. There is something immensely moving about hearing great prose being read by a soul sympatico.
“‘Fools! Fools!’ shouted Benjamin, prancing round them and stamping the earth with his small hoofs. ‘Fools! Do you not see what is written on the side of that van?’
That gave the animals pause, and there was a hush. Muriel began to spell out the words. But Benjamin pushed her aside and in the midst of a deadly silence he read:
‘ ‘Alfred Simmonds, Horse Slaughterer and Glue Boiler, Willingdon. Dealer in Hides and Bone-Meal. Kennels Supplied.’ Do you not understand what that means? They are taking Boxer to the knacker’s!’
A cry of horror burst from all the animals. At this moment the man on the box whipped up his horses and the van moved out of the yard at a smart trot. All the animals followed, crying out at the tops of their voices. Clover forced her way to the front. The van began to gather speed. Clover tried to stir her stout limbs to a gallop, and achieved a canter. ‘Boxer!’ she cried. ‘Boxer! Boxer! Boxer!’ And just at this moment, as though he had heard the uproar outside, Boxer’s face, with the white stripe down his nose, appeared at the small window at the back of the van.
‘Boxer!’ cried Clover in a terrible voice. ‘Boxer! Get out! Get out quickly! They’re taking you to your death!’
All the animals took up the cry of ‘Get out, Boxer, get out!’ But the van was already gathering speed and drawing away from them. It was uncertain whether Boxer had understood what Clover had said. But a moment later his face disappeared from the window and there was the sound of a tremendous drumming of hoofs inside the van. He was trying to kick his way out. The time had been when a few kicks from Boxer’s hoofs would have smashed the van to matchwood. But alas! his strength had left him; and in a few moments the sound of drumming hoofs grew fainter and died away. In desperation the animals began appealing to the two horses which drew the van to stop. ‘Comrades, comrades!’ they shouted. ‘Don’t take your own brother to his death! ‘ But the stupid brutes, too ignorant to realise what was happening, merely set back their ears and quickened their pace. Boxer’s face did not reappear at the window. Too late, someone thought of racing ahead and shutting the five-barred gate; but in another moment the van was through it and rapidly disappearing down the road. Boxer was never seen again.”
pyzo,
I know this is soppy, but I liked Black Beauty. Even now (about 10 years ago)I can’t read it without crying.It made me bawl as a kid, but I was a sensitive young lad back then. Now I’m just a weepy old man now.
Christopher Pearson would probably shudder in horror, but I have cried at the death of Little Nell, and Dombey and Son reduced me to tears the first time I read it. I cry often in movies, to the embarrasment of my less sentimental friends.
I agree with you 100% about Quadrant - speaking to the converted and all that. I read it, because, well it is Quadrant and has such an iconic place in Australian conservative debate: not that I am a “conservative’ contrary to what a fellow-LPer accused me of yesterday! I read other Australian stuff too, like Arena, Dissent, and Lesbians on The Loose. I find The Monthly much more lowbrow than Quadrant, and have developed a constitutional loathing of Robert Manne (whom I have never met by the way, and has never done anything to me, my friends, or family). What about Meanjin and similar journals?
I hadn’t considered the halo effect that would follow having one’s very first published article in a prestigious rigorous peer-reviewed journal. A Quadrant debut would lead to snickers, “oh he’s just an op-ed ranter who could do with a proper education.”
What’s the protocol? Do I just ring up or email the editor of ten journals I think are relevant? JSTOR is a great place for a quick list, but is it the best you know of? Do the editors work with you in polishing the article, or is expected to be ready to go the first time they read it?
It seems just so presumptuous for an undergraduate (even if mature-aged) to do this. Whenever I am researching an essay, all the articles are written by academics with proper titles, not just “student.”
On humanities academics, I agree with you about professionalism. I deliberately chose a university that appeared to be (still?) heavily biased in favour of traditional empiricist historiography: though it certainly has its pomo addicts, which they thankfully tend to shelve until the third year pre-honours seminars. One lesson I have learnt is that when deciding which courses to take, always follow the very best teachers, no matter what they teach, as they will excite you enough to go off and do your own research. I have been about 85% extremely satisfied with my history lecturers and tutors, which is MUCH higher than I expected when I first started.
I have also worked out that the best way to get all educated and, like, stuff is to deliberately take contrary positions. So I choose essays where the topic addresses a dominant scholarly paradigm and try to argue against it. It forces you to be much more nimble, well-read, and considered than just reproducing the prevailing consensus. It also carries the great risk that if you stuff up, misrepresent, or simply do not understand said dominant paradigm, expect a crucifixion; death by 52/100!
I have only had one experience where I felt I was marked down due to the lecturer’s ideology, but took that as a lesson to be even more considered next time. OTOH, there was another tutor who had a very “strong leaning” towards contemporary “gender” stuff, which i do not. I think there were times when she was close to punching me and/or calling HREOC. But she was the one who gave me 94 for the Vietnam essay (minus five for excessive length) and 9/10 for tutes. OTOH, I know other universities where the academics are much more ideological, and conform much closer to the current stereotype of pomo culture warrior leftist indoctrinator.
Paul Burns, I read your comment and I shook. And my eyes ran. I shook so much they thought the horse flu had come back. Poor Boxer.
Is it only humans who do these terrible things to animals? From what I see on the tellie in the stable, they do worse to their own kind. There’s some Bay somewhere, many paddocks away, where screams can be heard. And they are not the screams of passion either!
I think horses have much to offer humans. That why I want to be a writer. To help humans solve their problems. I might win the Nobel Peace Prize and the Booker for bringing rapprochement between humans and the rest of the animal world. Then again I might not. If I set the bar too high I mightn’t be able to jump over it. Besides, I don’t want to be egotistical. That’s a human disease.
P.S. I hope you don’t mind me throwing in a French word. Lecherers are excited by that, a groom told me one day!
I could not agree with you more about both Aeschylus and Edward Said.
After I wrote the essay mentioned above, the next semester I continued the theme and wrote an essay on the extent to which democratic ideology was “performed” (I know, how VERY Judith Butler of me! :)) on the Athenian stage between 450 and 400 BCE.
The Oresteia still takes my breath away! OMG, now I’M sounding like a Luvvie! The psychological depth, rhythm, language, theological sophistication, and Athena’s resolution of Apollo and the furies at the end of The Eumenides are just so profound as statements of politics and diplomacy in a way that no modern film or play ever has. It is hard to believe this stuff was actually written nearly 2,500 years ago when they had neither electricity nor Neurofen plus.
I have never taken a course on Attic Greek, but started teaching myself during the Aeschylus essay. Fortunately I already knew the alphabet and the various sounds through mathematics.
My interest in the essay was piqued by the scholarship surrounding the word “barbarian” or barbaros the Greek noun. I went to Dymocks and bought a Stage 1 textbook, and by the end could navigate my around the original Greek version of Aeschylus’ Persae (”The Persians”) with sufficient confidence to take on the leading scholars. In fact much of my essay was berating what a philistine and fraud Said was in every single word he has ever written about the ancient world, especially his risible comments on Aeschylus and Euripides. To me, the guy was a pimp and a fraud, whose legacy on the humanities has been disastrous.
I also successfully convicted the world’s leading scholar on representations of the barbarian in Greek literature of ethically-challenged mistranslations to pursue her Saidian agenda. To do this, I had to become familiar with all the Greeks words and ideas surrounding ’softness,’ ‘femininity,’ ‘luxury,’ ‘eastern,’ etc. Then I got stuck into French structuralists and deconstructionists.
Next year, I am going to start formal university study in Greek. It is amazing to learn. There is barely a philosophical, legal, ethical, theological concept that we all use today that does not come from this language.
“Is it only humans who do these terrible things to animals? From what I see on the tellie in the stable, they do worse to their own kind.”
Pyzo, they are truly horrible to each other. You will not be surprised to know that in a recent report on their childrens’ greatest fears, along with monsters spiders etc, the car, was high on the list.
For good reason. It is the greatest human child killer on the planet. How is that for almost instant karma?
Joe, I hope you don’t mind me asking, me being a horse and all. I saw a documentary once on CNN. The stable hands didn’t realize. It was about how many human children died from starvation each year. And lots seem to die in wars too. And some humans kill their own children as well.
Are the documentary ones less than those killed by cars?
JG,
Wish you well in your studies.
Despite the idiocy of the History Wars, (which were mostly waged by non-academics or people utterly untrained in the rigours of the discipline) i’ve always found professional historians pretty non-ideological in their approach, whatever their personal political beliefs. I think this is because we are to a great extent circumscribed by the evidence on which we base our interpretative narrative.This has even been the case in gender history, and really concepts like gender, class, race (the most contentious ones apparently) are just organising tools for a piece of writing, the same way scononomic, social, political, legal,etc. historical perspectives are. I can’t see what the fuss is about. If they’re useful to understanding or clarifying your argument, use them, if not relevant, to put them in is self-evidently extraneous.
pyzo,
Wasn’t me who quoted Animal Farm, though it was a powerful piece of writing.
Back to Vanity Fair. There’s a fantastic early technicolour version called ‘Becky Sharp’ by the great Rouben Mamoulian.
As to Pearson, his taste is okay, but he’s so pompous, he’d put any kid off these works. I wonder if he’d deign to listen to his neices’ and nephews’ recommendations. I doubt it.
Enemy Combatant, I’ve been such a silly Skewbald. Please forgive me. I love Orwell and I was so moved by the passage you quoted I mustn’t have been concentrating.
His best was 1984 which some countries in the world are trying their hardest to recreate. America for example.
Sometimes I’m glad I’m a horse. We’re bigger than humans and stronger than them and can run faster than them. And looking at the mess they’ve made of the world, we’re obviously smarter than them too!
Pyzo, I did not mind you asking. To do that would be horsist. But I would advise you to be skeptical of anything on CNN. In answer to your question, the ones in the documentary are less than those killed by cars.
See the link below and consider also how many children are killed in wars to secure petrol to keep cars going.
Also, would your species be happy to again provide engine capacity for passenger humans as we might need to start walking very soon?
Joe, could it be that we horses are going to have our revenge on humans for making us into glue? And thanks for your tip on CNN. A horse has to watch where he gets his information from or next I’ll be accused of having blinkers on!
Of course horses are not filled with hate like humans nor do we seek revenge. And we are far more loyal. You ask will we pick up where we left off when we were unceremoniously pushed aside by the noisy, polluting motor car? I cannot answer for all horses of course but I suspect we will.
Hopefully it will be more a partnership next time, one based upon respect.
“What’s the protocol? Do I just ring up or email the editor of ten journals I think are relevant? JSTOR is a great place for a quick list, but is it the best you know of? Do the editors work with you in polishing the article, or is expected to be ready to go the first time they read it?”
Protocols are different for different journals, and you can get a sense of process and expectations by looking at submission guidelines on the web pages of journals you respect. Read recent issues to get a sense of the style and if your work is a ‘fit’. Come up with a short-list of 3-4 for each piece. Meanjin would be good for pieces that address Australian material, has hosted some good scholarly work, and is good for interdisciplinary work with a literary component. It may suit some of the pieces you listed.
I recommend finding a sympathetic academic working in the area you are trying to publish in. If a lecturer has given you a very high mark, then they might be a good place to start. They can give you the inside info on which journals have slow turn over, good feedback and so forth, and might be able to look at your work and tell you exactly where to send it. If you don’t get good info this way, then email a 200-300 word abstract to editors of some of the journals on your shortlist and ask if they would be interested in your material. This can also help you to get a sense of how quickly things happen at each of those journals.
Once you’ve gotten word, submit according to the guidelines to one journal only for each piece - submitting the same piece at the same time to separate journals is generally not seen as good form. You may get knocked back, but you should get readers reports or other feedback which will outline the problems with the piece. If you’re accepted, you’ll still need to work on the piece to answer the readers suggestions and criticisms. After that there may be a little more to and fro with the editors over word-length and minor changes. I’ve had the whole process take 18 months for a major journal, but I’ve also had it take less than 6 months.
As for presumption, well, some major journals do not publish students at all, so they agree it is presumptuous. I happen to think this is a bad thing, but I can see why some major internationals want to discourage large numbers of low-quality submissions, and this is an imperfect way of achieving that.
In my experience, there is nothing quite like going down to the periodicals section of your uni library and browsing the subject area to get some ideas about a good home for your piece. I have no systematic way of finding suitable journals, but using journal databases through the uni library in the process of doing research can turn up interesting journals.
Of course horses are not filled with hate like humans nor do we seek revenge.
Written like someone who’s only seen horses in picture books. They’re smart, have long memories and definitely don’t mind a bit of revenge if they can get away with it. Try riding an oft abused horse near a low hanging branch for starters. The really clever horses can sidle up to a tree and scrape your leg on it. They’ll stumble in odd spots, dropping you like a bag of spuds. They’ll bite you. They’ll kick you. They have good memory for faces. Some horses seem like bundles of hate waiting for an opportunity.
It seems that getting something published is a nightmare (although I’ve had a few nightmares in my time and had no complaint). If it’s this hard for intelligent and talented humans like your friend then what chance do I, a Skewbald have?
Cause,Klaus, please don’t think I’m being presumptuous, but there are a lot of commercial magazines and newspapers your friend could apply to. They usually pay much better though the article might have to be adjusted so that normal humans can read it.
David, your experience with horses suggests that you have a poor attitude towards them. Many humans have this problem and its not only with horses either. Of course, what humans do to each other makes horseplay a Sunday School picnic by comparison.
I’m sure if you changed your attitude and thought of horses as being your equal things would change dramatically for you. Try an apple. You might even get a horse kiss!
You talk so affectionately about your species and the alleged wrongs of your superior species. But, you gloss over the outrages that you and your colleagues perpetrate on peace loving humans every day.
Economists are nuts. Pirates aren’t able to be extrapolated into any general proposition about self-organisation because they are pirates on a ship with a common purpose and avoiding the state!
Also, it doesn’t mention where the wooden legs and eyepatches came from…
According to one of the main authorities on pirates, Marcus Rediker,a Marxist historian (I think), in Between the Devil and the Deep Blue Sea,
their ’social order, articulated in the organisation of the pirate ship, was conceived and deliberately constructed by the pirates themselves.Its hallmark was a rough, improvised, but effective egalitarianism that placed authority in thecollective hands of the crew. …egalitarianism was institutionalized aboard the pirate ship.’
etc, etc. His basic argument is that pirates were the first more or less organised democracy, all decision, bar decisions about warfare,which were the prerogativer of the captain, being decided by the crew. Everybody got an equal share of the plunder. They were the first true lefties.
“Everybody got an equal share of the plunder. They were the first true lefties.”
Well there you have it, rather concisely put. The leftist perspective is, at bottom, founded upon the notion of plunder. Couldn’t have said it better myself!
John Greenfield — The work you’re doing sounds really interesting. I wish you all the best with it.
Growler, I apologize. I made a mistake, O.K. I can tell from your dismissive comment that you’re a human. That’s fine. I understand. All animals are used to being looked down upon by humans.
And you’re highly intelligent as well I see. Gee. Did you invent the A-Bomb or discover cigarettes? Humans are just so clever. Horses would never think of things like that.
Too clever for their own good, my mother used to say. Look at their fucked-up world, she’d say.
I’m trying to give them the benefit of the doubt, Growler!
Same to you with brass knobs on..
Go easy shovelling snow this winter. Snow? Yeah, you know, that white fluffy stuff thst sticks to the soles of your shoes and makes them slippery; you remember it, don’t you?
And remember, since the days of Ted Steele at Woollongong U, it doesn’t matter if you plagiarise your Masters arse off as long as daddy and muummie pay the fees. No wucken furries, you’re a winner everytime!
World’s best practise plagiarists-R-Us. University customers are getting the piece of paper they pay for.
Sorta like those academic indulgences they sold in the middle ages, prior to the enlightenment.
Mr Combatant, my ears pricked up when I read your comment about ‘getting the piece of paper they pay for’. Does this mean that I too can buy a degree or do they only sell them to rich humans!
Mr Steve, there’s much that I have to learn about the human world so I hope you’ll be tolerant of my questions but what’s monopoly money? Isn’t that what dentists and lawyers earn?
This “global warming” racket has to be the biggest embarrassment for the left since the fall of the Soviet Union. One wonders when they’ll all start abandoning ship on this one. They have proved adept at denying former mistakes though. To this day downplaying the millions of kids killed by their anti-DDT environmental policies.
Here are 400 people who actually understand the science condemning these climate science lies. There is no longer any doubt about this matter as it pertains to the science. The left have lost and made utter fools of themselves again.
So a Minority Report from the GOP meaning Republican side of the Senate is supposed to carry some sort of weight. They are just saying what they have always said. I don’t see how anybody can get excited about a minority of rightwingers from a minority senate position thinking what they always thought.
Well in the face of you guys having no evidence whatsoever 400 scientists saying its a fraud amounts to something I would have thought.
The rest of us are just going to have to keep asking you Malthusian/Marxist types for evidence or you are all going to have to admit you were wrong and unscientific.
What was the justification for this assholery in the first place? A bit of armchair thinking and thats it.
And before everyone starts pointing out that worse things go on in the meat industry: yes, but there’s something a little different, a little chilling, a new twist on consumerist indifference here.
Steve you are being an idiot. You have no evidence whatsoever. And you have the testimony of all sorts of qualified scientists. The Oregon report had the signatures of an immense amount of scientists.
So both the science and the scientists are one side of this argument. And there you are with no evidence at all.
Uh first?
Foist.
Kim:
Second …. but how come?
The sun has already been up for an hour in Central Queensland so where is everyone?
Okay, Out of bed all you sleepy-heads!
It’s still Friday here in LALA land. That’s my excuse anyway…
I was surprised to see Rudd in Iraq today. Then I guess it makes sense given his incessant attention to fulfilling his promises as quickly as possible. Pulling out our on the ground military support earlier might actually improve relations with Iraq and expedite trade negotiations… sans AWB.
God, I’m up early today, determined to get an article I want to have published, edited to a publishable style. So, I hope and pray y’all have finished your Chrissie shopping and will be on-guard for debates!
Fiftfh.
You people cannot count.
Not up to five, anyway. Does this mean LP-ers are more likely to be left-side brainers than right side brainers? Or are we like the bulk of the population who use both sides of their brain but not simultaneously. [Smile]
bjohns,
Didn’t know little Kev had flown into a war-zone.Doesn’t seem like he went there and then got the troops to blare trumpets like Also-ran.Or am I mistaken that we have seen an end to phony militarism exploited for political purposes?
If so, the left side of my brain delights in it, and the right side is sort of saying okay too.
Some of you may recall that in last week’s Saturday Salon I made a comment about the current ant plague that seems to be happening in Armidale. Well, yesterday I inadvertently rid myt flat of ants. I had some canned peaches for breakfast and left the empty tin on th kitchen sink instear of immediately putting it in the garbage. A couple of hours later the tin was crawling with little ants, whereupon I seized the tin, put it in a plastic bag and dropped it in the wheelie bin.
No sight of an ant since.
Ant plague defeated, at least for now.
Greenfield wrote:
Yep, those K-Zone editors are tough. Is the article on a new confectionary or a Bratz doll?
David Rubie
I have never had an article published in my life (although I have never submitted one either). But I got 95% for a uni essay and 93% for another. Both lecturers said it was the highest mark they had given in many years, so I thought I might as well try and get them published somewhere.
Bloody hell. Christopher Pearson has gone even further off the deep-end. I suspect he may be caught in a rip somewhere off Glenelg and is heading steadily southward.
Apparently he’s in touch wif teh yoof:
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,22960753-5013596,00.html
CK
As I said to him on that other thread, he needs a jolly good seeing to.
“I have never had an article published in my life (although I have never submitted one either). But I got 95% for a uni essay and 93% for another. Both lecturers said it was the highest mark they had given in many years, so I thought I might as well try and get them published somewhere.”
Good for you, John. Go for it.
CK,
There’s probably very little I would agree with Pearson on, but in this case, I think teh yoof would enjoy following most of his advice.So thanks for this opportunity to launch into a comment mostly about books and DVDs and a little about music, which I hope other LP-ers will either emulate or take up.Music first. CP has excellent taste in music and opera and I wouldn’t disagree with any of his recommendations, though I wouldn’t describe some of it in the drivelly religious terms he does. Its all just beautiful music to listen to. I’m an old G&S fan since performing very badly in Pinafore in primary school, being utterly unmusical, but we all had to be in it.
Whatever he writes, Evelyn Waugh is always a joy. Exceedingly witty and sometimes very very funny. In my younger days I can recall being in paroxysms of laughter over a couple of his books.Scoop was one of them.
Once you get use to Thackeray’s peculiar voice, Vanity Fair is un-put-downable, but somehow for reasons I can’t define, I found the BBC DVD a little disappointing, and the recent Hollywood version disastrous.Anna Karenina is one of those tragic novels where you keep wishing the characters wouldn’t do what they do, but they do it anyway. A rewarding but emotionally draining experience. I have to disagree with him about Our Mutual Friend. It falls apart halfway through, and never recovers. Worse than the last chapter of Bleak House.It is a very bad introduction to Dickens. And I’m such an avid Dickens fan I give Dickens novels to friends as presents. I’m not a big White fan, but I did enjoy Voss. My favourite of his books is The Vivisector though he goes as a bit crazy about psychopomps in it. (Don’t ask). I definitely intend to check out Nabakov’s memoirs.Pearson does have a bit of a strange taste in Eliot. Daniel Deronda is interesting, but, in my opinion not a touch on that old tear-jerker, Silas Marner, or the genius of Middlemarch.Lampedusa’s The Leopard is a good read, but the Visconti movie is a sheer masterpiece and obligatory viewing for all lefties.
Over to the rest of you.
Anyone notice the whaling article in the age yesterday? it apparently made my marine biologist partner livid, so naturally, i want to have a squiz. only we can’t find it online…
much appreciated,
Carl!
Paul, I have been attempting to get back into reading novel mode with glasses in need of an update and the continuing search for the perfect reading globe, still unfulfilled.
On CP, I suspect that CK has been a bit hard. Though, it is difficult to imagine good ol’ Mr Chris and “teh yoof” at present opening time. Would it go something like this?
“Oh look uncle chris has given me a copy of “Voss”, geez, I wonder what that is all about? I hope you enjoy the red sox unc’… they are a replica of the ones the pope wears.”
Aye CK. It reads like being given a cricket ball as a kid and then having to listen to Uncle Chris go about “almost playing county cricket, where of course in those days we didn’t have pads” for an hour. Followed by a game out the back with Uncle Chris monopolising the bowling to demonstrate his “mean googly”.
We’re supposed to be in drought and being roughed up by global warming but outside my stall it’s hissing down! Could anyone explain to a poor horse what’s going on?
pyzo,
Apparently we’re experiencing La Nina.
But would you sit on Uncle’s knee while he read you some Lolita, Joe?
“I have never had an article published in my life (although I have never submitted one either). But I got 95% for a uni essay and 93% for another. Both lecturers said it was the highest mark they had given in many years, so I thought I might as well try and get them published somewhere.”
John Greenfield, 93-95 is usually awarded for publishable or close to publishable quality, so congratulations on that. Do you have an idea of where you’re sending your article/s? If these are among your first publications, can I recommend somewhere with a reputation for faster response to submissions and good reader reviews. It is always a temptation to aim for a particular high profile journal, but you should make sure that you are going to get a good, timely response, which is far more valuable for someone beginning on the publication cycle.
Only if unc’ offered me a drop or two of madeira, as well, Sir Enry.
I’m not cheap you understand.
I experienced La Nina, Paul. Boy, she was a hot little filly that one. Insatiable she was!
Klaus, K., do you know where horses can get things published?
Assuming the horse in question is interested in writing about humans as well, and not just about themselves, I would recommend they start here:
http://www.societyandanimalsforum.org/sa/index.html
Pyzo, if Klaus K cannot help with a publisher this one might be worth a go.
http://www.corporateinformation.com/Company-Snapshot.aspx?cusip=C300AX860
Geoff/Klaus
Thanks for the encouragement. If anyone here is an academic type who actually gets stuff published, I would be extremely grateful for any advice.
1. OK, essay one got 95%. My lecturer allowed me to exceed the word limit of 3,000 words because he was very interested in what I had been arguing in tutes, etc. Anyways, I submitted 7.500 words. It was critiquing the notion that the modern West’s stereotyping of the muslim orient started in fifth century BCE Greece, with Aeschylus’ The Persians.. It is basically a very closely argued critique of the very popular post-colonialist/Edward Saidian “Orientalism” thesis. In the process it also critiques those French structuralists and post-structuralists historians who argue that Greek dramatists (I focus overwhelmingly on Aeschylus) and historians (I focus only on Herodotus) who represent non-Greeks (especially Persians, Egyptians, etc.) in their works, are not representing these ‘Others’ at all, but are merely using the ‘Others’ as mirrors to present triumphalist literature on Greek superiority. The paper looks at literature, philology, art, archaeology, etc.
The main problem from a publishing perspcetive is that my lecturer liked my “robust” style of arguing (much milder than my style on LP, but you can probably get a whif. ;), but said it might “alienate” others. SOOOO, what I have to is strip it back to much more calm and non-confrontational prose. There are only small segments where I “let rip” but I imagine most “serious” history/classics academic journals might not be so appreciative. All the arguments, critique of the prominent scholars, handling of the original sources was not faulted by my lecturer, so its mainly a style thing, especially as I take on the heaviest scholars who push this line.
OTOH, there are many non-academic journals around that would probably lap it up. For example, Quadrant. Anyway, I’m blind here, so any advice would be grateful.
Klaus K and joe2, you are both human legends. When the Melbourne Cups runs again I might have a few hot tips for you!
I am worried about one thing though. The Society and Animals talks about an author style guide. Do you know if they’ve written one for horses? If they haven’t, is that discriminatory? Would it worth getting a lawyer? Or should I contact Sarsaparilla?
Look, modestly speaking, I’m a bit of a four-footed trailblazer. I have much to offer humans I reckon even though they consigned so many of my relatives to the glue factory. We horses see things that humans don’t. And we are much kinder.
This image from the front page of the National Organ calls for a caption contest: http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/imagedata/0,,5812340,00.jpg
Klaus
2. One on the the extent to which popular protest ended Australia’s involvement in Vietnam got 94, but I was penalised 5 marks for going over the word limit. FASCISTS!
3. One that got 92, but it had one major flaw, which is easily fixed, which would have pushed up into the mid 90s. It was about “the extent to which homosexuality as we know it today existed in classical Greece.” As you can imagine it’s a critique of Foucault and his followers in Queer Studies, etc. But it also brings in a bit of neurobiology, physiology, and genetics, which I think gave it an edge.
4. A 90 for a pro-Zionist response to “why have the Americans failed to solve the Palestinian refugee problem?” It had a weakish conclusion which my lecturer said brought me down a bit. I nearly fainted, coz this lecturer (like most similar uni. lecturers is not known as a Zionist cheerleader. I laughed to him, “Jesus, this must have hurt you!” he merely said, “a very closely argued essay will always be rewarded regardles of the position it takes.” Yeah right.
Mmmm… working on that one CK…
…but this story should come as fair warning to all LP’ers who are tempted to look into a package inappropriatly.
“Husband stabbed for opening present early”
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,22963440-2,00.html
joe2,
Re the story about the Xmas present - Only in America.
CK,
Re caption : “Don’t you let anyone tell you this is Intelligent Design, kid.”
Carl!
Here is is. I think.
Shorter Erich Fitzgerald: Because we humans have not evolved far enough to walk and chew gum at the same time, it must follow that opponents of whaling are single-issue morons who cannot possibly care about the whole marine environment and the other creatures in it. Also, emotion. Emotional. Neh!
“While we target Japanese whaling with attention and political as well as emotional investment, we are being distracted from the plight of other whales and dolphins in far more dire straits than minke, or even humpback and fin whales. It was only this year that the baiji, or Yangtze River dolphin, was pronounced extinct.”
Yes Carl, it’s a pretty neat argument: ‘Look, behind you! China!’
Meanwhile, back in Australia’s economic zone…
What a deadhead.
JG: [Greek dramatists (I focus overwhelmingly on Aeschylus) and historians (I focus only on Herodotus) who represent non-Greeks (especially Persians, Egyptians, etc.) in their works, are not representing these ‘Others’ at all, but are merely using the ‘Others’ as mirrors to present triumphalist literature on Greek superiority.]
JG, presently reading “Persians” and agree that spin is spin whether it comes at you in a papyrus trireme, a swiftboat for truth, or delightfully arranged pages of iambic pentameter.
While boxing on with the gods on History Olympus is no doubt its own reward, there’s a nice little earner to be had with a sizzling script for “non-academic” types, say eg, “300″ fanciers who might appreciate the more “robust” elements of your style.
Enemy Combat
To be truthful I couldn’t give a flying fuck about serious academic journals. As Klaus says, the better ones have agonisingly long lag times. As I am more likely to be pursuing a Ph. D in Mathematics, rather than History/Classics, i think I’d just be tickled pink to have any of my humanities essays published in some mag/journal that is slightly more highbrow than Who Weekly and as you guess, I think I’d have a lot more fun being able to get published in a journal/mag that was more “liberal” in the styles it was happy publishing. But you know what they say, “buggers can’t be choosers.”
Are there any psychopharmacalogy types awake at the moment? I have been going through my Angels, AC/DC, Radiators, Cold Chisel, Jimmy and the Boys, and Bette Midler collection full-bore while sipping from Anna Winter-inspired Vodka and Limes as I wrestle with my Aeschylus, Edward Said, Herodotus, and Lacan musings. I dropped a Mogadon about an hour ago, and all of a sudden am totally awake and read to party.
WTF is going on? Said Moggie was taken to knock me out!
John Greenfield, I think you should aim for an academic journal because then you can cite your refereed, high quality journal article as a reason why you should be taken seriously as you take your usual interlocutors to task for their weak-mindedness. If you publish in Quadrant, you will mostly only be taken seriously by people who already agree with you. I hate to say it, but that is the status of that publication as it currently stands. There is little of the legacy of Donald Horne, or of other fine contributors throughout its history to be seen in it now.
If you are not interested in continuing to publish in the humanities, then it may in fact be worth the wait for a higher profile journal if you have the patience. I would only recommend something faster if you’re going to be trying to get into the rhythm of academic publishing, because you’ll need that feedback sooner rather than later as you prepare your next pieces.
I haven’t marked an enormous number of essays yet, but I have given very high marks to material I disagreed with, and my senior colleagues are more generous than I when it comes to that. I wouldn’t generalise, but I think is a stronger sense of professionalism in the humanities than credit is given for (although I’ve also heard of some really poor behaviour, but it’s usually directed at colleagues, not students). For me it always comes down to serious engagement with the ideas presented in the course: disagreement shouldn’t involve summary dismissal of what I’m trying to teach. Obviously said pieces were also well constructed, well argued, etc.
Everyone:
[i].
I hereby name this Saturday Salon “ON BEING PUBLISHED”.
[Why not? If corporate cowboys, fly-by-night companies and the white shoe brigade can name anything and everything they like, from football teams to public property, why can’t I hop in for my chop too? Sorry Mark, Kim, Anna et collective
].
[ii].
Damn the ABC. Turned on Radio National just now expecting to hear another brilliant,enjoyable and informative Mark Steele lecture on history …. and they’ve put on a comedy in its place.
Bjohns [5]:
Not surprised Rudd went to Iraq and Afghanistan. As I said before, we have a very very different Prime Minister now; not necessarily nicer but certainly much more …. how shall I put it? …. commanding.
John Greenfield: “as I wrestle with my Aeschylus, Edward Said…”
Goodness gracious, what a thought. Aeschylus, as you must surely already know, is actually worthy of being, um, ‘wrestled with’. But Edward Said may be merely summarily dismissed with a healthy snicker and some mean remarks to his parents on a note in the report card, if not worse. btw, are you writing this stuff with a working reading knowledge of old Greek?
In my own experience, I find that the best and most interesting way to really examine or criticize the major Greek dramatists (plus that pesky comedian) is to, well, produce them. There’s no better literary essay on the Greeks than the actual flesh and blood Andrei Serban/La Mama/Great Jones Rep production of “Fragments of a Trilogy” (which roughly = Medea, Trojan Women, and Elektra), and its equivalents, (and yeah, I’ve seen some, uh, equivalents). But then each to his own, if you can really bring yrself to stand such well-meaning folks like Wm. Arrowsmith, Richmond Lattimore and Moses Hadas, after more than a tol’able while. Though I do remain solidly convinced that the Fitzgerald translation of the Iliad is an ongoing cause for celebration. Anyway, enjoy what you can!
I’m glad I’m reading Saturday Salon. It’s a valuable place for a horse to pick up writing and publishing tips and, if I ever attend a University, I’ll know about lecherers.
Did you humans know that, when the car came along and we horses were sent to the glue factories in the hundreds of thousands that we call it The Horse Holocaust?
How could humans who we served so well have treated us so badly.
“How could humans who we(horses) served so well have treated us so badly?”
Pyzo, well may you ask. Heard Margaret Atwood(a bit up herself but quite brilliant) read the following passage on RN’s bookshow years ago. Guaranteed to temporarily shred the limbic system of anyone who ever had a heart for neddys. There is something immensely moving about hearing great prose being read by a soul sympatico.
“‘Fools! Fools!’ shouted Benjamin, prancing round them and stamping the earth with his small hoofs. ‘Fools! Do you not see what is written on the side of that van?’
That gave the animals pause, and there was a hush. Muriel began to spell out the words. But Benjamin pushed her aside and in the midst of a deadly silence he read:
‘ ‘Alfred Simmonds, Horse Slaughterer and Glue Boiler, Willingdon. Dealer in Hides and Bone-Meal. Kennels Supplied.’ Do you not understand what that means? They are taking Boxer to the knacker’s!’
A cry of horror burst from all the animals. At this moment the man on the box whipped up his horses and the van moved out of the yard at a smart trot. All the animals followed, crying out at the tops of their voices. Clover forced her way to the front. The van began to gather speed. Clover tried to stir her stout limbs to a gallop, and achieved a canter. ‘Boxer!’ she cried. ‘Boxer! Boxer! Boxer!’ And just at this moment, as though he had heard the uproar outside, Boxer’s face, with the white stripe down his nose, appeared at the small window at the back of the van.
‘Boxer!’ cried Clover in a terrible voice. ‘Boxer! Get out! Get out quickly! They’re taking you to your death!’
All the animals took up the cry of ‘Get out, Boxer, get out!’ But the van was already gathering speed and drawing away from them. It was uncertain whether Boxer had understood what Clover had said. But a moment later his face disappeared from the window and there was the sound of a tremendous drumming of hoofs inside the van. He was trying to kick his way out. The time had been when a few kicks from Boxer’s hoofs would have smashed the van to matchwood. But alas! his strength had left him; and in a few moments the sound of drumming hoofs grew fainter and died away. In desperation the animals began appealing to the two horses which drew the van to stop. ‘Comrades, comrades!’ they shouted. ‘Don’t take your own brother to his death! ‘ But the stupid brutes, too ignorant to realise what was happening, merely set back their ears and quickened their pace. Boxer’s face did not reappear at the window. Too late, someone thought of racing ahead and shutting the five-barred gate; but in another moment the van was through it and rapidly disappearing down the road. Boxer was never seen again.”
From Ch. 9, Animal Farm.
pyzo,
I know this is soppy, but I liked Black Beauty. Even now (about 10 years ago)I can’t read it without crying.It made me bawl as a kid, but I was a sensitive young lad back then. Now I’m just a weepy old man now.
Christopher Pearson would probably shudder in horror, but I have cried at the death of Little Nell, and Dombey and Son reduced me to tears the first time I read it. I cry often in movies, to the embarrasment of my less sentimental friends.
Klaus
I agree with you 100% about Quadrant - speaking to the converted and all that. I read it, because, well it is Quadrant and has such an iconic place in Australian conservative debate: not that I am a “conservative’ contrary to what a fellow-LPer accused me of yesterday! I read other Australian stuff too, like Arena, Dissent, and Lesbians on The Loose. I find The Monthly much more lowbrow than Quadrant, and have developed a constitutional loathing of Robert Manne (whom I have never met by the way, and has never done anything to me, my friends, or family). What about Meanjin and similar journals?
I hadn’t considered the halo effect that would follow having one’s very first published article in a prestigious rigorous peer-reviewed journal. A Quadrant debut would lead to snickers, “oh he’s just an op-ed ranter who could do with a proper education.”
What’s the protocol? Do I just ring up or email the editor of ten journals I think are relevant? JSTOR is a great place for a quick list, but is it the best you know of? Do the editors work with you in polishing the article, or is expected to be ready to go the first time they read it?
It seems just so presumptuous for an undergraduate (even if mature-aged) to do this. Whenever I am researching an essay, all the articles are written by academics with proper titles, not just “student.”
On humanities academics, I agree with you about professionalism. I deliberately chose a university that appeared to be (still?) heavily biased in favour of traditional empiricist historiography: though it certainly has its pomo addicts, which they thankfully tend to shelve until the third year pre-honours seminars. One lesson I have learnt is that when deciding which courses to take, always follow the very best teachers, no matter what they teach, as they will excite you enough to go off and do your own research. I have been about 85% extremely satisfied with my history lecturers and tutors, which is MUCH higher than I expected when I first started.
I have also worked out that the best way to get all educated and, like, stuff is to deliberately take contrary positions. So I choose essays where the topic addresses a dominant scholarly paradigm and try to argue against it. It forces you to be much more nimble, well-read, and considered than just reproducing the prevailing consensus. It also carries the great risk that if you stuff up, misrepresent, or simply do not understand said dominant paradigm, expect a crucifixion; death by 52/100!
But she was the one who gave me 94 for the Vietnam essay (minus five for excessive length) and 9/10 for tutes. OTOH, I know other universities where the academics are much more ideological, and conform much closer to the current stereotype of pomo culture warrior leftist indoctrinator.
I have only had one experience where I felt I was marked down due to the lecturer’s ideology, but took that as a lesson to be even more considered next time. OTOH, there was another tutor who had a very “strong leaning” towards contemporary “gender” stuff, which i do not. I think there were times when she was close to punching me and/or calling HREOC.
Paul Burns, I read your comment and I shook. And my eyes ran. I shook so much they thought the horse flu had come back. Poor Boxer.
Is it only humans who do these terrible things to animals? From what I see on the tellie in the stable, they do worse to their own kind. There’s some Bay somewhere, many paddocks away, where screams can be heard. And they are not the screams of passion either!
I think horses have much to offer humans. That why I want to be a writer. To help humans solve their problems. I might win the Nobel Peace Prize and the Booker for bringing rapprochement between humans and the rest of the animal world. Then again I might not. If I set the bar too high I mightn’t be able to jump over it. Besides, I don’t want to be egotistical. That’s a human disease.
P.S. I hope you don’t mind me throwing in a French word. Lecherers are excited by that, a groom told me one day!
jpz
I could not agree with you more about both Aeschylus and Edward Said.
After I wrote the essay mentioned above, the next semester I continued the theme and wrote an essay on the extent to which democratic ideology was “performed” (I know, how VERY Judith Butler of me! :)) on the Athenian stage between 450 and 400 BCE.
The Oresteia still takes my breath away! OMG, now I’M sounding like a Luvvie!
The psychological depth, rhythm, language, theological sophistication, and Athena’s resolution of Apollo and the furies at the end of The Eumenides are just so profound as statements of politics and diplomacy in a way that no modern film or play ever has. It is hard to believe this stuff was actually written nearly 2,500 years ago when they had neither electricity nor Neurofen plus.
I have never taken a course on Attic Greek, but started teaching myself during the Aeschylus essay. Fortunately I already knew the alphabet and the various sounds through mathematics.
My interest in the essay was piqued by the scholarship surrounding the word “barbarian” or barbaros the Greek noun. I went to Dymocks and bought a Stage 1 textbook, and by the end could navigate my around the original Greek version of Aeschylus’ Persae (”The Persians”) with sufficient confidence to take on the leading scholars. In fact much of my essay was berating what a philistine and fraud Said was in every single word he has ever written about the ancient world, especially his risible comments on Aeschylus and Euripides. To me, the guy was a pimp and a fraud, whose legacy on the humanities has been disastrous.
I also successfully convicted the world’s leading scholar on representations of the barbarian in Greek literature of ethically-challenged mistranslations to pursue her Saidian agenda. To do this, I had to become familiar with all the Greeks words and ideas surrounding ’softness,’ ‘femininity,’ ‘luxury,’ ‘eastern,’ etc. Then I got stuck into French structuralists and deconstructionists.
Next year, I am going to start formal university study in Greek. It is amazing to learn. There is barely a philosophical, legal, ethical, theological concept that we all use today that does not come from this language.
“Is it only humans who do these terrible things to animals? From what I see on the tellie in the stable, they do worse to their own kind.”
Pyzo, they are truly horrible to each other. You will not be surprised to know that in a recent report on their childrens’ greatest fears, along with monsters spiders etc, the car, was high on the list.
For good reason. It is the greatest human child killer on the planet. How is that for almost instant karma?
Joe, I hope you don’t mind me asking, me being a horse and all. I saw a documentary once on CNN. The stable hands didn’t realize. It was about how many human children died from starvation each year. And lots seem to die in wars too. And some humans kill their own children as well.
Are the documentary ones less than those killed by cars?
JG,
Wish you well in your studies.
Despite the idiocy of the History Wars, (which were mostly waged by non-academics or people utterly untrained in the rigours of the discipline) i’ve always found professional historians pretty non-ideological in their approach, whatever their personal political beliefs. I think this is because we are to a great extent circumscribed by the evidence on which we base our interpretative narrative.This has even been the case in gender history, and really concepts like gender, class, race (the most contentious ones apparently) are just organising tools for a piece of writing, the same way scononomic, social, political, legal,etc. historical perspectives are. I can’t see what the fuss is about. If they’re useful to understanding or clarifying your argument, use them, if not relevant, to put them in is self-evidently extraneous.
pyzo,
Wasn’t me who quoted Animal Farm, though it was a powerful piece of writing.
Back to Vanity Fair. There’s a fantastic early technicolour version called ‘Becky Sharp’ by the great Rouben Mamoulian.
As to Pearson, his taste is okay, but he’s so pompous, he’d put any kid off these works. I wonder if he’d deign to listen to his neices’ and nephews’ recommendations. I doubt it.
Enemy Combatant, I’ve been such a silly Skewbald. Please forgive me. I love Orwell and I was so moved by the passage you quoted I mustn’t have been concentrating.
His best was 1984 which some countries in the world are trying their hardest to recreate. America for example.
Sometimes I’m glad I’m a horse. We’re bigger than humans and stronger than them and can run faster than them. And looking at the mess they’ve made of the world, we’re obviously smarter than them too!
Pyzo, I did not mind you asking. To do that would be horsist. But I would advise you to be skeptical of anything on CNN. In answer to your question, the ones in the documentary are less than those killed by cars.
See the link below and consider also how many children are killed in wars to secure petrol to keep cars going.
Also, would your species be happy to again provide engine capacity for passenger humans as we might need to start walking very soon?
http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/04/19/news/UN-GEN-UN-Car-Crashes.php
Joe, could it be that we horses are going to have our revenge on humans for making us into glue? And thanks for your tip on CNN. A horse has to watch where he gets his information from or next I’ll be accused of having blinkers on!
Of course horses are not filled with hate like humans nor do we seek revenge. And we are far more loyal. You ask will we pick up where we left off when we were unceremoniously pushed aside by the noisy, polluting motor car? I cannot answer for all horses of course but I suspect we will.
Hopefully it will be more a partnership next time, one based upon respect.
“What’s the protocol? Do I just ring up or email the editor of ten journals I think are relevant? JSTOR is a great place for a quick list, but is it the best you know of? Do the editors work with you in polishing the article, or is expected to be ready to go the first time they read it?”
Protocols are different for different journals, and you can get a sense of process and expectations by looking at submission guidelines on the web pages of journals you respect. Read recent issues to get a sense of the style and if your work is a ‘fit’. Come up with a short-list of 3-4 for each piece. Meanjin would be good for pieces that address Australian material, has hosted some good scholarly work, and is good for interdisciplinary work with a literary component. It may suit some of the pieces you listed.
I recommend finding a sympathetic academic working in the area you are trying to publish in. If a lecturer has given you a very high mark, then they might be a good place to start. They can give you the inside info on which journals have slow turn over, good feedback and so forth, and might be able to look at your work and tell you exactly where to send it. If you don’t get good info this way, then email a 200-300 word abstract to editors of some of the journals on your shortlist and ask if they would be interested in your material. This can also help you to get a sense of how quickly things happen at each of those journals.
Once you’ve gotten word, submit according to the guidelines to one journal only for each piece - submitting the same piece at the same time to separate journals is generally not seen as good form. You may get knocked back, but you should get readers reports or other feedback which will outline the problems with the piece. If you’re accepted, you’ll still need to work on the piece to answer the readers suggestions and criticisms. After that there may be a little more to and fro with the editors over word-length and minor changes. I’ve had the whole process take 18 months for a major journal, but I’ve also had it take less than 6 months.
As for presumption, well, some major journals do not publish students at all, so they agree it is presumptuous. I happen to think this is a bad thing, but I can see why some major internationals want to discourage large numbers of low-quality submissions, and this is an imperfect way of achieving that.
In my experience, there is nothing quite like going down to the periodicals section of your uni library and browsing the subject area to get some ideas about a good home for your piece. I have no systematic way of finding suitable journals, but using journal databases through the uni library in the process of doing research can turn up interesting journals.
pyzo wrote:
Written like someone who’s only seen horses in picture books. They’re smart, have long memories and definitely don’t mind a bit of revenge if they can get away with it. Try riding an oft abused horse near a low hanging branch for starters. The really clever horses can sidle up to a tree and scrape your leg on it. They’ll stumble in odd spots, dropping you like a bag of spuds. They’ll bite you. They’ll kick you. They have good memory for faces. Some horses seem like bundles of hate waiting for an opportunity.
Mr Klaus, are you Santa? You’re so kind.
It seems that getting something published is a nightmare (although I’ve had a few nightmares in my time and had no complaint). If it’s this hard for intelligent and talented humans like your friend then what chance do I, a Skewbald have?
Cause,Klaus, please don’t think I’m being presumptuous, but there are a lot of commercial magazines and newspapers your friend could apply to. They usually pay much better though the article might have to be adjusted so that normal humans can read it.
David, your experience with horses suggests that you have a poor attitude towards them. Many humans have this problem and its not only with horses either. Of course, what humans do to each other makes horseplay a Sunday School picnic by comparison.
I’m sure if you changed your attitude and thought of horses as being your equal things would change dramatically for you. Try an apple. You might even get a horse kiss!
Pyzo,
You talk so affectionately about your species and the alleged wrongs of your superior species. But, you gloss over the outrages that you and your colleagues perpetrate on peace loving humans every day.
Peace-loving humans, Growler? I’ve never met any.
I assume from your name that you’re a dog. Listen, don’t rain on my parade, you pretentious pooch unless being trampled is high on your agenda!
Pyzo,
Growlers are actually highly intelligent. They can smell out pretentious cretins with the click of an obedient mouse.
Check out this pdf on how pirates organise themselves.
http://www.peterleeson.com/An-arrgh-chy.pdf
Economists are nuts. Pirates aren’t able to be extrapolated into any general proposition about self-organisation because they are pirates on a ship with a common purpose and avoiding the state!
Also, it doesn’t mention where the wooden legs and eyepatches came from…
According to one of the main authorities on pirates, Marcus Rediker,a Marxist historian (I think), in Between the Devil and the Deep Blue Sea,
their ’social order, articulated in the organisation of the pirate ship, was conceived and deliberately constructed by the pirates themselves.Its hallmark was a rough, improvised, but effective egalitarianism that placed authority in thecollective hands of the crew. …egalitarianism was institutionalized aboard the pirate ship.’
etc, etc. His basic argument is that pirates were the first more or less organised democracy, all decision, bar decisions about warfare,which were the prerogativer of the captain, being decided by the crew. Everybody got an equal share of the plunder. They were the first true lefties.
“Everybody got an equal share of the plunder. They were the first true lefties.”
Well there you have it, rather concisely put. The leftist perspective is, at bottom, founded upon the notion of plunder. Couldn’t have said it better myself!
John Greenfield — The work you’re doing sounds really interesting. I wish you all the best with it.
…and, with that…
MERRY CHRISTMAS, EVERYBODY!
and a happy and prosperous New Year to you all…
cheers,
j_p_z
Huh, guess that didn’t work before. Anyway…
MERRY CHRISTMAS, EVERYBODY!
and best wishes to all for a happy, healthy and prosperous New Year! cheers!
Growler, I apologize. I made a mistake, O.K. I can tell from your dismissive comment that you’re a human. That’s fine. I understand. All animals are used to being looked down upon by humans.
And you’re highly intelligent as well I see. Gee. Did you invent the A-Bomb or discover cigarettes? Humans are just so clever. Horses would never think of things like that.
Too clever for their own good, my mother used to say. Look at their fucked-up world, she’d say.
I’m trying to give them the benefit of the doubt, Growler!
j-p-z [65]:
Same to you with brass knobs on..
Go easy shovelling snow this winter. Snow? Yeah, you know, that white fluffy stuff thst sticks to the soles of your shoes and makes them slippery; you remember it, don’t you?
And remember, since the days of Ted Steele at Woollongong U, it doesn’t matter if you plagiarise your Masters arse off as long as daddy and muummie pay the fees. No wucken furries, you’re a winner everytime!
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/12/24/2126410.htm
World’s best practise plagiarists-R-Us. University customers are getting the piece of paper they pay for.
Sorta like those academic indulgences they sold in the middle ages, prior to the enlightenment.
Mr Combatant, my ears pricked up when I read your comment about ‘getting the piece of paper they pay for’. Does this mean that I too can buy a degree or do they only sell them to rich humans!
Also Wucken Furries? Are they rabbits?
Pyzo, why would you bother buying a degree when monopoly money will get you the piece of paper you desire?
Mr Steve, there’s much that I have to learn about the human world so I hope you’ll be tolerant of my questions but what’s monopoly money? Isn’t that what dentists and lawyers earn?
Kim, I think that the eyepatches and wooden legs come from a children’s story book.
http://www.candlelightstories.com/Pirates/PiratesStevenson.php
This “global warming” racket has to be the biggest embarrassment for the left since the fall of the Soviet Union. One wonders when they’ll all start abandoning ship on this one. They have proved adept at denying former mistakes though. To this day downplaying the millions of kids killed by their anti-DDT environmental policies.
Here are 400 people who actually understand the science condemning these climate science lies. There is no longer any doubt about this matter as it pertains to the science. The left have lost and made utter fools of themselves again.
http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.SenateReport
So a Minority Report from the GOP meaning Republican side of the Senate is supposed to carry some sort of weight. They are just saying what they have always said. I don’t see how anybody can get excited about a minority of rightwingers from a minority senate position thinking what they always thought.
Well in the face of you guys having no evidence whatsoever 400 scientists saying its a fraud amounts to something I would have thought.
The rest of us are just going to have to keep asking you Malthusian/Marxist types for evidence or you are all going to have to admit you were wrong and unscientific.
What was the justification for this assholery in the first place? A bit of armchair thinking and thats it.
Tell us about it when you have a majority report from the US senate at least then you might have something meaningful too contribute.
Paul Burns, I read your comment and I shook. And my eyes ran. I shook so much they thought the horse flu had come back. Poor Boxer.
Is it only humans who do these terrible things to animals?
This christmas, give a cool present, with added cruelty.
And before everyone starts pointing out that worse things go on in the meat industry: yes, but there’s something a little different, a little chilling, a new twist on consumerist indifference here.
How could anyone bear to own such a thing?
Pyzo, this thread is in need of a bit more horse sense. You have not been lured by a big bag of carrots for instance?
Steve you are being an idiot. You have no evidence whatsoever. And you have the testimony of all sorts of qualified scientists. The Oregon report had the signatures of an immense amount of scientists.
So both the science and the scientists are one side of this argument. And there you are with no evidence at all.
That’s not you Bird, is it?
Just a suggestion folks - don’t feed, etc.
Have you got any evidence Mark?
I’ve got lots of present buying still to do, and trading hours are only til 6pm tonight, so see ya…